OOTP Chapter Twenty-Seven: "The Centaur and the Sneak"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* First of all, sorry this is so late, I'm afraid I've been a bit busy preparing to go back to university.

* This is the chapter in which Hermione officially crosses the line from “occasionally strident and self-righteous but on the whole likeable and sympathetic character” to “dangerous sociopath”.

* “‘A gorgeous centaur...’ sighed Parvati.” I must say that, given the, erm, associations of centaurs in classical mythology, this sort of thing rather creeps me out. Is JKR aware of the implications of what she’s writing? Or did she just throw it in without bothering to think it through?

* Hermione’s dropping dark hints about what Umbridge is going to do, revealing the plot like any good author avatar would.

* So Harry can remember the names of centaurs he met once four years ago, but in DH he won’t be able to remember a face from a picture from one chapter to the next. *coughplotconveniencecough*

* Wow, centaurs sure are arrogant and condescending people. No wonder Dumbledore felt enough of an affinity with Firenze to hire him as a teacher. He recognises a kindred spirit when he sees one.

* If I were JKR, I’d be hesitant to dignify the wizarding conflicts with the term “war”. They’re more like gang wars than what most people would think of as warfare. Which is why epic fantasy doesn’t really mix with a “secret magical people in this world” plot. Epic fantasy generally centres around mighty empires, big wars and bloody battles, but these things are generally quite noticeable, and any wizards fighting in large-scale conflicts would be found out pretty quickly. So the wizarding war pretty much has to be low-key to make it plausible that Muggles wouldn’t know about it, and the end result is that we get a lot of build-up and very little payoff.

* Firenze spends the whole lesson teaching them something which he doesn’t expect them to do anyway, and which is anyway a bit uncertain and useless. So he’s about as good as the average Hogwarts teacher, then.

* “Indeed, Harry sometimes wondered how Umbridge was going to react when all the members of the DA received ‘Outstanding’ in their Defence Against the Dark Arts OWLs.” Only kidding, Harry will be the only one to get an “Outstanding” mark, because he’s a Mary Sue just the most awesome DADA student ever.

* Although everybody always goes on about how smart Hermione is, and from what we see of her she doesn’t seem noticeably worse in DADA than she does in other subjects, so if she only got an “E” in her Defence OWL, that’s probably because Harry’s not a very good teacher... :p

* Seamus’ Patronus “was definitely something hairy”. *mind goes into the gutter*

* Hermione’s Patronus is an otter, even though she’s one of the least otter-like people in the series. On a Doylist level, this is probably because JKR’s favourite animal is the otter, so her author avatar will have one as her Patronus, obviously. On a Watsonian level, perhaps Patronuses don’t represent what your personality is like, but what you need to guard you and keep you out of trouble. So Hermione’s is an otter because she needs fun-loving people around her to stop her getting too serious about everything, Ron’s is a weasel because he needs smart people to compensate for his mental inadequacy, and Harry’s is a stag because he needs a proper father-figure to help him, not an abusive one like Uncle Vernon or a scheming and manipulative one like Dumbledore. Patronuses which change when somebody falls in love show that their caster needs to be loved by their intended in order to feel happy and secure again.

* Dobby appears, wearing “his usual eight woollen hats”. I quite like the suggestion that it was this sight that made Hermione drop her SPEW activities, as she saw that her hats were all going to this one elf, and that they were therefore pretty useless from a freeing people standpoint. (Can anybody remember if SPEW is brought up again in this book?)

* Umbridge is here! I bet it’s times like this that the DA wish they had a second, secret entrance from the ROR. That way they could slip away while Umbridge and her cronies sat uselessly in front of the main entrance.

* Draco’s concealed “beneath an ugly dragon-shaped vase”, to match his ugly and monstrous soul.

* Umbridge has “an indecent excitement in her voice”. I wonder if this is how Hermione would sound to those on the receiving end of her little schemes.

* When I first read this scene, I didn’t really mind the “Sneak” curse, because I just sort of assumed that Madam Pomfrey managed to find a way of removing them after a couple of weeks. Then we found out that she still had the scars years later and... yikes.

* Not only is that extremely vindictive, but it doesn’t actually help the DA in any way. It didn’t stop them being betrayed in the first place, and it didn’t alert them to the fact that Umbridge was coming to get them. If this had been a one-off incident and the curse hadn’t been permanent, I’d be inclined to put it down to youthful lack of thought, but when you compare it to some of Hermione’s other actions (her treatment of Rita Skeeter, or sending those canaries after Ron), it seems like a rather worrying pattern is starting to emerge...

* Minerva gets all self-righteous about Willy Widdershins being let off. I wonder whether she feels the same about Mundungus Fletcher, or whether petty crooks are OK just as long as they’re on her side.

* Also, she’s not above a bit of petty corruption herself, since she lets Gryffindor Quidditch players off homework when a match is coming up.

* So Kingsley memory-wipes Marietta to stop her telling. You know, this is exactly the sort of mentality that leads DEs to Imperius people and get them to do their bidding: not caring about your victims’ autonomy, just violating their minds when it’s convenient to do so.

* Also, if they are going to mind-wipe Marietta, why not do it to Percy, Fudge and Umbridge too? That would get them out of trouble entirely.

* And really guys, Umbridge has a list of DA members and access to Veritaserum. Obliviating one witness shouldn’t be enough.

* I’m surprised Umbridge thought she could get away with manhandling students like that in front of Dumbledore. I mean, that man’s just so concerned about his students’ welfare.

* Hermione left the membership list pinned to the ROR wall. Well done, Hermione. Not that any DA members will point out this idiocy to her. Nor will they point out the fact that her defensive jinx was (a) vindictive and useless, and (b) not told about to them when they joined up. Maybe they’re all worried she’ll brand the word “COMPLAINER” across their forehead if they speak up.

* Dumbledore taking the rap is all very noble and everything, but I don’t see how it’s meant to help. Fudge can still charge the pupils with attending, even if they didn’t organise it, and now Dumbledore’s ensured that he’s going to be on the run and unable to give them any help.

* Face-scarring aside, I actually quite liked this chapter. It was quite well-paced, and I never really felt like I was wading through pages of filler. It will be interesting to see if the other chapters will be more like this now the book’s reaching its climax, or whether the quality will slip back down again.

Comments

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

I don't see any evidence of Hermione's having changed from the way she was before, here. I don't even know that in the last of these quotes, that she's gotten Kreacher's perspective *right*.

The third quote doesn't represent a change in her perspective from the beginning of GoF. She's capable of being angry about their slavery and having to punish themselves without listening to what the elves actually want or think, as demonstrated by my quote above.

In the first quote, Hermione's talking about a situation where Kreacher obeyed an order, and it was an order where an elf saved his own life even though it meant abandoning his master. Hermione approves of that action, quite apart from anything else. She isn't wrong to approve, but that isn't the point; she's failing to pay attention to the fact that Kreacher found abandoning Regulus to be traumatic.

In the second quote... oh, come on. An example of Hermione's new empathy? Now accepting that individual elves have their own views of the world? Here's a little more context.

“Oh, Kreacher!” wailed Hermione, who was crying. She dropped to her knees beside the elf and tried to hug him. At once he was on his feet, cringing away from her, quite obviously repulsed.

“The Mudblood touched Kreacher, he will not allow it, what would his Mistress say?”

Yes, that's nasty of Kreacher. However, Hermione did *not* truly empathize with Kreacher, or she'd have understood that he still abhorred her as a Muggleborn.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Hermione may still not be an expert on elves. However she clearly understands them more than the boys. And I think the scene shows that she's improved from the time 3 years earlier when she just didn't understand Winky's attitude at all.

However, Hermione did *not* truly empathize with Kreacher, or she'd have understood that he still abhorred her as a Muggleborn.

Hermione's sympathy for Kreacher - who didn't deserve it, as you've noted - momentarily overrode her academic knowledge that he would abhor her touch. So? Still proof enough that this caring and sympathetic girl, crying over the plight of the miserable nasty elf, is light years away from a sociopath.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

And I think the scene shows that she's improved from the time 3 years earlier when she just didn't understand Winky's attitude at all.

No, I really don't think so. In both cases, she doesn't see the elf in question as a real person. They're just something she's projecting her beliefs on.

Put it this way: in HBP, if she'd been the one to find Draco crying in the bathroom, would her first impulse be to hug him? Probably not. She takes his dislike seriously, because she sees him as a real person capable of having opinions and beliefs. She doesn't take Kreacher's dislike seriously, because she doesn't see *him*.

The point isn't whether she acknowledges people as capable of having opinions, though, but whether she can empathize with them. In this scene, she's empathizing with the imaginary Kreacher in her head, who doesn't hate her and who doesn't really love Regulus.* She isn't empathizing with the real Kreacher in front of her.



*Even when she "explains" elves to Harry, she only acknowledges that Regulus was kind to Kreacher, not that Kreacher cared about Regulus.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hermione may still not be an expert on elves. However she clearly understands them more than the boys.

No, it is Ron who understands them the best. He is the one who sees Winky is behaving as if she is in love with Crouch. He is the one who thinks the elves shouldn't be tricked into freedom - they should have a choice about it.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Ron certainly understands the elves but he's not driven distraught by their plight; not like Hermione is. She's in tears while listening to Kreacher's tale. She spends tens/hundreds of hours knitting away to give them their freedom. Her heart is in the right place, even if she gets things wrong sometimes.

With regard to Kreacher I think she shows much more understanding than Ron. When it comes to the knitting thing, yes, she was silly. But overall I think she 'understands' the elves quite well - certainly by the last book - and she's by far the one most emotionally invested in their welfare.

Definitely no sociopath here!

[oryx_leucoryx]

While she understands Kreacher better than Harry, I don't think she is even remotely close to understanding his motivation. It isn't about liking people who treat him with kindness, it is about people who respect his service. And his plight is about his inability to fulfill Regulus' last orders to him, while at the same time his order of secrecy being in conflict with his service to Walburga.

Ron understands Winky's plight - her service, which is her love, was scorned by Crouch (of course he doesn't know the full picture, which includes conflicting loyalties to both Crouch men). Hermione just thinks she must have been brain-washed to respond so badly when Crouch Sr makes unreasonable demands of her and fires her.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I think that you seem to be under the impression that crying about something gives a person pure or compassionate motives. People can definitely cry for selfish reasons, and it's also quite easy for some people to fake it if they have a reason to. I mean, if she really wants to come off as sympathetic, tears are a pretty good way to go.

Also, I know this might seem slightly off topic, but as a knitter I feel the need to point out that once you get to be decently good at knitting it doesn't actually take all that long to make something as small as a hat. If you use thick enough yarn and big enough needles you can knit one up in less than an hour. So it isn't like it was really that that much of a commitment.

I hope that I don't come off as rude or anything, but I do feel the need to point it out.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

But Hermione's tears are never shown as having any 'practical' utility. Where is it in the book that her 'acting' compassionate gets her ahead, does her a service? Why would she be 'acting' so kindly from day #1, when we never see her profit by that 'acting'?

If you use thick enough yarn and big enough needles you can knit one up in less than an hour. So it isn't like it was really that that much of a commitment.

Sure, one hat might only take an hour, but Hermione knitted hundreds of them. It's the time she spent knitting away. I've never knitted in my life, if I'd tried to save the elves the same way maybe I would have manufactured one hat in the same time that Hermione knitted twenty. But we both would have sacrificed the same amount of *time* ... and that's the measure of her personal commitment to helping the elves.

(Absolutely no 'rudeness' discerned at all from my end, and I love learning new things! :-))

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Sure, one hat might only take an hour, but Hermione knitted hundreds of them. It's the time she spent knitting away.

Wait a minute. That doesn't make sense. If Hermione spent hundreds of hours knitting hats (assuming she actually did that, re sunnyskywalker's remark below), when did she find time to do her and the boys' schoolwork, go to class, eat, sleep, and the like? Is this another example of JKR's "oh, maths" problem?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

The 'hundreds' is my estimate, not from Rowling's text.

There's several passages in the book where Hermione is busily knitting away on hats and scarves; she's doing it continuously for quite some period of time (weeks, months?) in Gryffindor tower. But it's 'magic' knitting:

Hermione, who of course was up to date with all her work, brought more wool outside with her and bewitched her knitting needles so that they flashed and clicked in midair beside her, producing more hats and scarves.

[oryx_leucoryx]

There are only about a hundred elves at Hogwarts according to GOF. I doubt she knitted more than that.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Hmm... to me, this quote suggests that Hermione might reasonably have thought she could make enough hats by Christmas, or not too much later:

They were so busy that Hermione had even stopped knitting elf hats and was fretting that she was down to her last three.

ʹAll those poor elves I havenʹt set free yet, having to stay here over Christmas because there arenʹt enough hats!ʹ

What do you guys think?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Maybe she knitted as many as she thought were needed, but upon returning from break she realized elves were still working so she knitted more, just in case? Is there any evidence for her knitting after the return from holidays?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

That could be... she could well think that "elves still working" meant "not enough hats," quite apart from her prior belief about how many elves worked for Hogwarts. I don't know about knitting after Christmas yet, though.

I should clarify that this quote was from just before Christmas, not after. Sorry for the lack of context.

[sunnyskywalker]

Didn't Molly have a spell that made her knitting needles do the knitting for her while she did other things? That would take even less time than regular knitting. And we know Hermione's smart enough to look up a knitting spell.