OOTP Chapter Twenty-Nine: "Careers Advice"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* And in case there was any lingering doubt as to whether OOTP was too padded, here’s an entire chapter where the most noteworthy thing that happens is Harry getting a bit of careers advice. Oh joy.

* Snape cancelling the Occlumency lessons isn’t (just) because he’s angry at Harry for seeing SWM. Harry’s behaviour also represented a security risk – Snape probably put all his memories showing that he was a double agent in there, and he couldn’t run the risk that Harry would look in the Pensieve again, see some of them, and then get mind-read by Voldemort and reveal Severus’ true allegiance in that way.

* Hermione’s usually very trusting of teachers, but now she’s all “I don’t think Snape should stop until you’re absolutely sure you can control them!” presumably because the plot needs Harry to feel guilty now.

* I’m glad that Harry still has enough empathy to feel horrified at the Marauders’ behaviour, although it’s a pity this never really went anywhere.

* “Harry could not imagine Fred and George dangling someone upside-down for the fun of it... not unless they really loathed them... perhaps Malfoy, or somebody who really deserved it...” Erm, Harry, has it perhaps occurred to you that the Marauders did “really loathe” Snape, and that, from the point of view of a disinterested outsider, the Twins’ behaviour might seem little better than what you saw James and Sirius doing?

* “‘I wish I could talk to Sirius,’ Harry muttered. ‘But I know I can’t.’” Yeah, Harry, I mean it’s not like Sirius gave you a present specifically for use if you wanted to contact him. Such a pity, that…

* Muggle relations jobs don’t need many OWLs, because wizards don’t really care much about interacting with the other 99% of the world’s population.

* Also, “much more important is your enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun!” sounds like the sort of thing you’d say to somebody working with children or animals rather than adults.

* Plus, you don’t really need “enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun”, just skill at doing memory charms. That seems to be the main method of wizard-muggle interaction, after all.

* Messing up people’s revision time is “the very last thing” Fred and George want to do. Apparently giving somebody boils doesn’t count as messing up their revision, then.

* I doubt that Sirius’ knife open literally any door. If it’s bewitched to resist Alohomora, it could probably resist the knife as well.

* Being given a zero for his potion isn’t that bad a punishment, actually. It’s not like it’s going to contribute towards his OWL score, so he hasn’t really missed out on anything except feedback and possibly the pride of being given a good mark. He certainly hasn’t missed out on enough to justify him being unable to talk to Hermione.

* “[Being an Auror is] a difficult career path, Potter, they only take the best.” Or people who’ve managed, by a series of incredibly lucky coincidences, to beat the most incompetent Dark Lord ever.

* So, the Aurors require good marks and passing a series of aptitude tests. Let’s see, Harry consistently copies off Hermione when doing his schoolwork, charges into potentially dangerous situations without thinking or calling for backup, and seems content to trust whatever he’s told provided it comes from people he likes, whilst refusing to entertain any notion that his personal enemies might be right. Can anybody really see him fulfilling the criteria for being an Auror, let alone rising to become their head whilst still in his twenties? Seems to me like he’ll spend the rest of his career playing off his Chosen One status to get himself promoted to positions well beyond his actual competence.

* “‘I was just wondering whether Mr. Potter has quite the temperament for an Auror?’ said Professor Umbridge sweetly.” Once again, the bad guys’ assessment of the heroes’ qualities and actions is correct, although probably for the wrong reason (cf. Lucius Malfoy).

* We can tell that Umbridge’s note represents trouble because the parchment it’s written on is pink, the evil colour.

* I sort of pity Harry here. He’s so obviously just the pawn for Umbridge and McGonagall’s little power struggle. Although it makes a change from being obviously just the pawn for Dumbledore and Fudge’s power struggle, I suppose.

* Also, getting into a shouting match in front of your pupils is very undignified and unprofessional behaviour. Minerva really ought to have known better than to do so.

* DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.

* So Harry’s sitting around moping and thinking of the knife which Sirius gave him and which he plans to use so he can talk to Sirius. Somehow, he doesn’t think of the mysterious present which Sirius gave him specifically so they can talk to each other if Harry has any problems.

* Ron keeps saying that Harry should make his own decision. This is quite a consistent view for him to adopt, but I’m not entirely sure what to make of it – sometimes (as with the House Elves) this seems like principled support for not imposing your ideas of what’s best on people, other times (like now) it seems like he’s just too cowardly to express an opinion and risk upsetting anyone.

* Snape was “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts”, whereas James wasn’t. So, how exactly do the Dark Arts differ from normal magic? Is it that they can’t be used for good purposes (as opposed to normal magic, which can be used for both good and bad)? But then, why should using Dark Magic be considered any worse than using normal magic to attack somebody?

* James was “everything Snape wanted to be” – so awesome, in other words, that even scenes where he bullies people with no provocation indicate just how awesome he is.

* Funny, from the way Sirius and Lupin talk about SWM, you’d think they were just partaking in some high-spirited schoolboy antics, rather than a rather serious piece of abuse.

* James was “a good person”, despite acting like a bad one. Seems like an example of the pseudo-Calvinist outlook of these books: if you’re good you’re good, no matter what your actual behaviour is like.

* Are we meant to be thinking badly of Filch for wanting to whip the twins? Because whipping somebody doesn’t seem particularly bad for a society with such a cavalier attitude to physical danger (even McGonagall gives eleven-year-olds detention in the Forbidden Forest, which has the potential to turn far nastier than a spot of light corporal punishment would).

* Besides, it’s not like regular punishments seem to work particularly well on Fred and George. I suppose a bit of corporal punishment might be worth a try.

* I’m surprised Umbridge or the IS don’t do more to stop Fred and George from escaping. Like Stunning them, or conjuring a brick wall in mid-air to block their path.

Comments

[emma-in-oz.livejournal.com]

I’m surprised Umbridge or the IS don’t do more to stop Fred and George from escaping. Like Stunning them, or conjuring a brick wall in mid-air to block their path.

I'm sure she is thrilled to have them gone.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/I’m glad that Harry still has enough empathy to feel horrified at the Marauders’ behaviour, although it’s a pity this never really went anywhere./

Again, what was the point of this revelation? Harry feels very badly about what he saw, so it’s clear that the reader should, too. Yet by the end, we’re still supposed to think that James was a great guy and that Snape deserved it?

/“Harry could not imagine Fred and George dangling someone upside-down for the fun of it... not unless they really loathed them... perhaps Malfoy, or somebody who really deserved it...”/

Tell that to Montague, Harry. I don’t think that he’d feel better if you told him that Fred and George locked him in a Vanishing Cabinet because they “really loathed” him or because he “really deserved it.”

/“‘I wish I could talk to Sirius,’ Harry muttered. ‘But I know I can’t.’” Yeah, Harry, I mean it’s not like Sirius gave you a present specifically for use if you wanted to contact him./

This was such a contrivance. Sirius’ death could have been averted if only Harry had remembered the mirror. What was the point of giving Harry that mirror if he was never going to use it or even think about it?

/Muggle relations jobs don’t need many OWLs, because wizards don’t really care much about interacting with the other 99% of the world’s population./

This is just ridiculous. Most wizards live in Muggle towns. Many of them have married Muggles. And yet they act as if they’re Amish. Scratch that, I think that the Amish are more aware of the modern world than wizards are.

/Snape was “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts”, whereas James wasn’t. So, how exactly do the Dark Arts differ from normal magic? Is it that they can’t be used for good purposes (as opposed to normal magic, which can be used for both good and bad)? But then, why should using Dark Magic be considered any worse than using normal magic to attack somebody?/

And strangely, despite being “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts,” we never hear of Snape using them on anyone except James. We don’t see or hear of any incidents where he practiced dark spells on Muggle-born students, or, rather, on any students at all. So…he’s supposed to be the bad guy, while James, who constantly hexed people with supposedly “non-Dark” spells,” isn’t? James can curse people to his heart’s content as long as he doesn’t use any “Dark Magic,” whatever that is?

/James was “everything Snape wanted to be”/

Funny, I got the impression that all Snape wanted was for James to *leave him alone.* But, apparently, that was too much to ask for.

/from the way Sirius and Lupin talk about SWM, you’d think they were just partaking in some high-spirited schoolboy antics/

Just like Fred and George! Boys will be boys, after all! *sarcasm*

/James was “a good person”, despite acting like a bad one. Seems like an example of the pseudo-Calvinist outlook of these books: if you’re good you’re good, no matter what your actual behaviour is like./

You know what, fine. If James is supposed to be so special despite bullying and hexing people for fun, then I can say that Tom Marvolo Riddle was a great guy at school, too. After all, nobody knows how those two kids in the orphanage became insane, so nobody can say for sure if he used the Dark Arts on them. He didn’t use the Dark Arts on Myrtle; she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and was killed by the basilisk. Nobody can say for sure if he meant for that to happen, just like nobody can say for sure if Sirius meant for Remus to kill Snape when he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And Tom Riddle became Head Boy, after he got credit for supposedly clearing up the mess that he started in the first place, just like James! And Tom had his own fun-loving band of friends at school, too, just like James!

So, I don’t know why everybody keeps badmouthing Tom so much. Until the sixth book, nobody could prove that he’d been using the Dark Arts at school and everybody knows that it's only bad if you use the Dark Arts. He’s just like James…except for the fact that we don’t know if he ever played Quidditch and the fact that he didn’t have a Lily. Oh, well, one can’t have everything. ;)

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

The Tom-James comparison? Good catch; Swythyv already made it. And it's absolutely chilling. I keep seeing an intelligent and much more chilling book under the surface of the Potter novels, but, somehow, I get the strong impression that that is not the intended reading.

Swythyv's essay is here: http://mary-j-59.livejournal.com/77180.html

She compares James Potter directly to Tom Riddle at the end of "The Abyss in the Pensieve".

[oryx_leucoryx]

Again, what was the point of this revelation? Harry feels very badly about what he saw, so it’s clear that the reader should, too. Yet by the end, we’re still supposed to think that James was a great guy and that Snape deserved it?

Early in chapter 31, when Harry hears Ron talk about his own success at Quidditch after his early failures and sees him mess with his hair he makes peace with his father's behavior. James was awesome because Sirius said so and since Severus called Lily a Mudblood he retroactively earned the abuse. What's not to understand?

What was the point of giving Harry that mirror if he was never going to use it or even think about it?

So he'd have it in DH, of course. (And also so he can beat himself up about it at the end of this book.)

And strangely, despite being “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts,” we never hear of Snape using them on anyone except James.

And maybe those flies. Of course since nobody knows what is and what isn't Dark Magic (or, as Terri pointed out, they are probably following multiple different definitions) maybe Levicorpus was a Dark spell and James used it without realizing it was one. Or any number of spells. Maybe the magic behind the Marauders' Map is in fact Dark. How would James know? He never learned the Dark Arts as a discipline so how would he know what is included in it? Let's not forget James had a friend from a Dark Magic practicing family. Who would never admit to James that some of the nifty magic he picked up at home was dark.

He’s just like James…except for the fact that we don’t know if he ever played Quidditch and the fact that he didn’t have a Lily.

Well, at some point he learned to fly broomless, which pwns Quidditch. Regretably Bella was a tad young for him.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Plus, you don’t really need “enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun”, just skill at doing memory charms. That seems to be the main method of wizard-muggle interaction, after all.

Casting memory charms *is* fun, one must do so with enthusiasm.

Messing up people’s revision time is “the very last thing” Fred and George want to do. Apparently giving somebody boils doesn’t count as messing up their revision, then.

Or giving them brain damage. Montague is probably a 7th year student, he should be revising for NEWTs.

“[Being an Auror is] a difficult career path, Potter, they only take the best.” Or people who’ve managed, by a series of incredibly lucky coincidences, to beat the most incompetent Dark Lord ever.

Or who managed to assist said Dark Lord with beating himself.

Seems to me like he’ll spend the rest of his career playing off his Chosen One status to get himself promoted to positions well beyond his actual competence.

I wonder who does his homework for him at the Ministry.

DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.

This is also a woman who once worked for Amnesty International.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.

Now I'm imagining a series of HP-themed Gospel sporkings called, "If J K Rowling Wrote the Gospels."

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Seems to me like he’ll spend the rest of his career playing off his Chosen One status to get himself promoted to positions well beyond his actual competence.

I'd imagine he'd get bored with trying, and eventually just get a Wizard TV show and later become an alcoholic.

* I sort of pity Harry here. He’s so obviously just the pawn for Umbridge and McGonagall’s little power struggle. Although it makes a change from being obviously just the pawn for Dumbledore and Fudge’s power struggle, I suppose.

Or Voldemort and Dumbledore's power struggle. But I suppose when you can't think for yourself, you always become a pawn.

* Snape was “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts”, whereas James wasn’t. So, how exactly do the Dark Arts differ from normal magic? Is it that they can’t be used for good purposes (as opposed to normal magic, which can be used for both good and bad)? But then, why should using Dark Magic be considered any worse than using normal magic to attack somebody?

It seems as vaguely defined as "terrorism", it's a useful term to criticise your enemies with.

* I’m surprised Umbridge or the IS don’t do more to stop Fred and George from escaping. Like Stunning them, or conjuring a brick wall in mid-air to block their path.

But that would make sense. Our villains must be ineffective Dahl/Bond types that never get in the way of the heroes' coolness.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

"Father, destroy them! They know exactly what they're doing!"

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for they make good followers.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they are justified in revenge.

Blessed are the meek,
for they keep out of my way.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall destroy their enemies.

Blessed are the merciful,
because those "life debts" pay off big.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for anything they do is justified.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they can build a peace which benefits them.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for they can angst about it and seem cool.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

"Father, destroy them! They know exactly what they're doing!"

Just wanted to say I LOLed so hard at this one. :)

[annoni-no.livejournal.com]

Swythyv's essay? I think you mixed up the links.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

* Snape cancelling the Occlumency lessons isn’t (just) because he’s angry at Harry for seeing SWM. Harry’s behaviour also represented a security risk – Snape probably put all his memories showing that he was a double agent in there, and he couldn’t run the risk that Harry would look in the Pensieve again, see some of them, and then get mind-read by Voldemort and reveal Severus’ true allegiance in that way.

And, of course, it's a personal breach of trust. Harry knew full well those memories were private.

* Hermione’s usually very trusting of teachers, but now she’s all “I don’t think Snape should stop until you’re absolutely sure you can control them!” presumably because the plot needs Harry to feel guilty now.

You know how we criticise her supposed intelligence as nothing more than rote memorisation? I think we've been unfair to her. She's the only one smart enough to interpret JKR's desires as to plot progession. Sadly, this aspect of her personality, like so many others, will disappear in DH.

* “‘I wish I could talk to Sirius,’ Harry muttered. ‘But I know I can’t.’” Yeah, Harry, I mean it’s not like Sirius gave you a present specifically for use if you wanted to contact him. Such a pity, that…

What was the point? What was the bloody point?

* DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.

Didn't she say once that she was influenced by CS Lewis? Aslan worked much the same way, being far more into the whole "smite evil" aspects of divinity than anything that wasn't "manly" and obviously powerful.

* James was “everything Snape wanted to be” – so awesome, in other words, that even scenes where he bullies people with no provocation indicate just how awesome he is.

Ahahahahahaha. Ahaha. Aha. Ha.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

James was “everything Snape wanted to be” – so awesome, in other words, that even scenes where he bullies people with no provocation indicate just how awesome he is.

So why do the Snape-haters complain about his bullying students? He's just acting like James. Obviously Snape learned something from James in spite of himself.

[sunnyskywalker]

“Harry could not imagine Fred and George dangling someone upside-down for the fun of it... not unless they really loathed them... perhaps Malfoy, or somebody who really deserved it...”

Back in the day, I thought this was a sign that Harry was starting to realize the difference between self-defense and just being nasty, and that he would eventually conclude that tormenting people for entertainment was just wrong, even if you didn't like the victim. It would reinforce his moment in PoA when he decided that Pettigrew should have to face consequences for his crimes, because he'd done a lot of wrong - but that summarily murdering him was also wrong. He'd learn that just because someone was nice to him didn't mean that person couldn't also be unjustifiably horrible to others (paging Fred and George...). And he'd learn to grow beyond what he thought his dad might have done, or what various living adults said, and could accept that someone dying heroically to protect their family didn't mean they were necessarily wonderful people in general. I also thought SWM was before the Prank, and that James actually did feel remorse later and try to shape up a little. How cruelly our expectations were shattered! Expecting heroes to not enjoy causing others pain and humiliation was just too unreasonable, apparently.

[sunnyskywalker]

James had more attractive hair and clearer skin. Totally different situation, obviously!

[sunnyskywalker]

As a sign at one of those anti-Westboro counter-pickets put it, "God hates figs." (Poor fig tree. I always felt sorry for it, sitting there just doing exactly what it was created to do and getting punished for it.)

This incident was on the way to smashing up the tables at the Temple instead of just shouting a bit and trying to persuade the vendors it was wrong before getting destructive, right?

A lot of the characters in the Potterverse would fit right in with the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, if you want to bring in non-canonical texts. Teacher annoying you? Smite him!

Sorry! Swythyv's essays-

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

I am so sorry! Don't even know how that happened; the peril of posting when you have bronchitis! Now I understand why I've had lots of visitors who haven't said anything to me. (

This should be the correct link: http://swythyv.livejournal.com/4903.html

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

He'd learn that just because someone was nice to him didn't mean that person couldn't also be unjustifiably horrible to others (paging Fred and George...). And he'd learn to grow beyond what he thought his dad might have done, or what various living adults said, and could accept that someone dying heroically to protect their family didn't mean they were necessarily wonderful people in general.

I don't know why he should. Many of his "adult" fans still haven't figured that out. For that matter, neither has his creator. Once I was looking at HMS_STFU, and somebody insisted that whatever horrible things James had done when he was younger didn't matter because dying to save his family wiped all of it out. As I pointed out in another recent post, there were a lot of Nazis who were loving family members and friends. That doesn't mean they were good people. As Jesus said, there's no merit in treating the people you like well because anybody can do that. What takes character is being kind to the people you can't stand.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Not to mention being a rich pureblood with influential friends rather than a poor half-blood nobody.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Once I was looking at HMS_STFU, and somebody insisted that whatever horrible things James had done when he was younger didn't matter because dying to save his family wiped all of it out. As I pointed out in another recent post, there were a lot of Nazis who were loving family members and friends. That doesn't mean they were good people.

Or for canon examples, see Vernon standing between Hagrid, and later Arthur, and Petunia and Dudley. Doesn't make him a less nasty person. Of course he didn't actually die, and as it turned out the scary wizards were of the kind that would 'only' give his son a pig's tail or wipe memories of inconvenient Muggles rather than kill them, so I suppose Vernon's stand for his family against more powerful people doesn't count.

Or take the Malfoys. Both Lucius and Narcissa would have died for Draco, if necessary. Doesn't counter whatever they did for Voldemort's cause or pureblood supremacy or whatever.

Re: Sorry! Swythyv's essays-

[annoni-no.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Which is why I never understood the general assumption that Narcissa had to get off scott-free (supposing she HAD done something else besides hosting Voldemort) because she helped Harry by declaring him dead in the forest. She obviouly didn't do it for any other motive than saving her son (however weird THAT assumption is constructed)- not because she had suddenly seen the light and decided Voldy's partyline was wrong.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Does her motive matter? I mean, what if Lucius had AK'd Voldemort in the back during that conversation, but only because (on the hope that Draco was still alive) he wanted to keep Voldemort from endangering his son further. Would his motive matter, in such a situation?

[sunnyskywalker]

I just miss the days when it still seemed like a possibility that JKR might go there. We could still hope that she actually had this big reversal planned where she would make fans suddenly have to reevaluate their opinions of all these characters, just as she had usually done with reversing our expectations of the plot and of whether Snape was the bad guy or not (lots of people seemed to be surprised that the mean guy wasn't the villain that time). Looking at this section of the book again, I wonder if she was setting that up, but chickened out just like she chickened out about killing Arthur, and now can't bear to be too mean to her precious characters even in interviews. Such a shame.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

----DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.

It's possible that this is just meant as another example of how out of touch with reality the Ministry and Umbridge are. At this point in the story, 11 high-security prisoners from Azkaban (including Sirius Black) are on the loose. Most of them are insane from dementor exposure. It's unreasonable to believe that non-retaliation and negotiation will work if one of them attacks you.

[oryx_leucoryx]

OTOH those techniques are very useful in other everyday situations and could have prevented many duels.