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deathtocapslockSome of us have questioned why Harry had to continue to spend several weeks with the Dursleys each summer after Voldemort returned at the end of GoF. If sharing Harry's blood allowed Voldemort to touch Harry, then it seems logical that it would also allow him to bypass any magical blood protections on #4 Privet Drive. So here's an idea, inspired by Arsinoe de Blassenville's The Best Revenge.
Dumbledore could argue that the Dursleys should have custody of Harry, even though they were Muggles, because Petunia was Harry's closest living blood relative. However, his argument probably would not have been especially valid unless Harry had actually lived with the Dursleys for at least a few weeks each summer. If Harry never actually spent any time with the Dursleys, then more distant wizarding relatives might have been able to present a good case for why they should have custody of him instead.
For example, let's suppose that Harry was the grandson of Dorea Black and Charlus Potter on the Black Family Tapestry. In that case, it's quite possible that, in the summer of 1995, Harry's closest living wizarding relatives (who were not convicted criminals anyway) were his second cousins Andromeda Tonks and Narcissa Malfoy. In the summer of 1995, Andromeda Tonks had long since been disinherited from the Black family, and Lucius Malfoy had the ear of the Minister of Magic. So, if Harry hadn't continued to live with the Dursleys for part of each summer, then the Malfoys might have been able to gain custody of the Boy-Who-Lived.
In a sense, then, the Dursleys did provide Harry with a "blood" protection, even after Voldemort returned. But it wasn't necessarily a magical protection; it was a legal one.
Dumbledore could argue that the Dursleys should have custody of Harry, even though they were Muggles, because Petunia was Harry's closest living blood relative. However, his argument probably would not have been especially valid unless Harry had actually lived with the Dursleys for at least a few weeks each summer. If Harry never actually spent any time with the Dursleys, then more distant wizarding relatives might have been able to present a good case for why they should have custody of him instead.
For example, let's suppose that Harry was the grandson of Dorea Black and Charlus Potter on the Black Family Tapestry. In that case, it's quite possible that, in the summer of 1995, Harry's closest living wizarding relatives (who were not convicted criminals anyway) were his second cousins Andromeda Tonks and Narcissa Malfoy. In the summer of 1995, Andromeda Tonks had long since been disinherited from the Black family, and Lucius Malfoy had the ear of the Minister of Magic. So, if Harry hadn't continued to live with the Dursleys for part of each summer, then the Malfoys might have been able to gain custody of the Boy-Who-Lived.
In a sense, then, the Dursleys did provide Harry with a "blood" protection, even after Voldemort returned. But it wasn't necessarily a magical protection; it was a legal one.
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Date: 2012-01-30 07:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-30 08:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-30 09:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-30 09:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-01-30 11:25 pm (UTC)Regardless of one's opinions of the Malfoys, I doubt it would have been good for Harry if they had managed to gain custody of him in the summer of 1995.
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Date: 2012-01-30 11:52 pm (UTC)If Harry automatically would go to the closest blood relatives no matter what, the Malfoys probably have the best claim. If wizarding family court consider a larger pool of distant relatives and pick the ones that look best for Harry, then the Longbottoms and Macmillans are other possibilities. In 1995, Lucius seems like the one with the most political clout - but on the other hand, if Augusta thought she had a chance of bringing The Boy Who Lived home to be Neville's foster brother, she might have put up quite a challenge, and we know she hangs out with Griselda Marchbanks and the Malfoys don't, so she might actually be more influential when she chooses. (Marchbanks didn't resign until early 1996, iirc, so she still would have had influence.) They might also consider that Draco and Harry are known to despise each other which would make for a miserable living situation, while Harry and Neville get along. Plus while the Order roster of 1981 is not public knowledge, Lily and James might still have friendly with Frank and Alice in some less secretive capacity, while the Potters and the Malfoys didn't hang out. That might also make a difference.
Could have been a nasty battle!
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Date: 2012-01-31 03:40 am (UTC)The influence we saw Lucius wield in 1992-5 was after a decade of repairing his reputation, doing good works (ie donating to the right causes), and generally establishing that he really was a good guy who'd been imperiused by the most powerful living wizard.
In 1981? Not so much.
(But if he did, yes, at that point he'd to everything in his power to sway Harry to his foster family's side, and to appear publicly to be raising Harry without reproach.)
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Date: 2012-01-31 04:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-02 06:12 am (UTC)He tells the DEs in the circle:
Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy's protection as long as he is in his relations' care. Not even I can touch him there ...
And then in DH Tom waited for the Dursleys to leave (thus breaking the protection, or so he believed) before attacking Harry and co.
So whether Albus actually did anything to add to Harry's protection, Tom was convinced that he did and believed the protection held regardless of his use of Harry's blood.
The interesting question is how did Tom arrive at the conclusion that said protection existed? Since this was given as an explanation for the convoluted plot of GOF I believe Tom became convinced of it before leaving Albania for the last time. His sources could have been:
- Quirrell
- Something he picked up during the year he accompanied/rode Quirrell
- Peter
- Bertha Jorkins
I find Peter the least likely source. Harry hadn't heard of the alleged 4PD protection yet so it isn't anything Peter heard from hanging out with the trio. Maybe he overheard Dumbles talking about it while hanging out in Hagrid's hut? But with whom would Albus discuss it just then? Hmm.. Albus talking to Severus, in the context of the danger to Harry from Sirius - maybe. Maybe Severus realized that Harry was placed with the Dursleys while the alleged traitor Black was still free - and he knew where the Dursleys lived via his ties to the Potters.
Quirrell would only know if Albus told him, or arranged for him to find out. It kind of works in a conspiracy-theory way, if we think Albus *sent* Quirrell with the intent that he find Tom.
Would Bertha know? Only if the 'blood protection' was something Albus told the Ministry about. (Yet it was not known to the public at large, somehow.)
Possibly the most interesting possibility is that Tom actually attempted to reach Harry at 4PD sometime during the summer of 1991 and there actually was something that repelled him.
Other ideas?
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Date: 2012-02-03 01:12 am (UTC)Very true. Hmmm....
I wonder if Tom believed that the protections on 4PD were related to the protection from Lily's sacrifice or if he thought they were something separate. While he speaks of both the "ancient magic" invoked by Albus and the "old magic" of Lily's sacrifice in the graveyard, he doesn't really make a connection between the two. Also, his statement, "Not even I can touch him there," might mean that he believed that nobody could touch Harry at 4PD, or at least that the protections on the house could block others besides himself.
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Date: 2012-02-03 03:29 am (UTC)Maybe he was lead astray by attributing too good intentions to Albus. Tom didn't know Harry was his Horcrux and obviously didn't know Albus believed this to have been the case. Therefore Tom mistakenly believed Albus wanted Harry to be safe (rather than killed under circumstances Albus deemed acceptable). So if Tom attempted to invade 4PD, whether as Vapormort (before the Dursleys took Harry on their letter-evading road-trip) or as Quirrellmort (after Harry's birthday) and got repelled by the protection he may have decided it was an all-encompassing protection because that's the logical thing for Dumbles to do, especially during years when Tom is away but many other opponents of Albus' party are at large.
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Date: 2012-02-03 04:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-03 05:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-03 01:22 pm (UTC)The Tonks'? Andromeda may have been disinherited, but I don't remember any suggestion that the family was struggling financially. She may no longer be a Black, but still a relative - they could be a good choice.
Of course, this supposes that the WW cares about the welfare of kids being fostered. Given how little that society seems to care about people in general, I think that's not very likely. Nearest relatives would be hard to beat.
I, too, would like to read a fic with Harry raised by the Malfoys (from 1981, not 1995 - 1995 could be quite short). I think pragmatic Lucius would treat him well. He'd want to raise little Potter to fit into society and be a friend and ally to his house. But I can't see him really loving the boy as a son. I need to think some more to come up with a scenario where Harry doesn't get handed straight over to Voldemort as soon as he reappears ...
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Date: 2012-02-03 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-04 04:25 am (UTC)If anyone other than Tom was involved in an attack on Harry at 4PD it could only have been Quirrell.
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Date: 2012-02-04 06:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-04 06:55 pm (UTC)Anyway, we know Augusta has at least some help from Algie, so she's not entirely single-handed. We might consider having two relatives in St. Mungo's a major commitment, but I'm not sure they would in the ww. They're not much for paying attention to mental health generally, so they probably figure the Longbottoms will visit Frank and Alice when they like and that's that. As far as money, Hogwarts isn't fee-paying, and we never hear about the Weasleys needing to pay for Arthur's care, so it's possible the Malfoy donations are paying for the Longbottoms' care. And as far as we know the Longbottoms are doing fine financially; at least we never hear about any money trouble (Neville seems to get the legacy wand for legacy reasons, not lack of funds, as in Ron's case).
Neville never mentions either way, but being an old pureblood family, they may also have a house-elf. That would lighten Augusta's load considerably.
But there's so little evidence of any kind of system for these situations, who knows. All we know is that they do think family matters a lot.
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Date: 2012-02-04 08:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-04 08:27 pm (UTC)As the supposed defeater of Voldemort Uncle Algie and the others would have had no doubt in his magic, so he wouldn't have been dangled out of balconies.
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Date: 2012-02-06 04:36 am (UTC)I think Tom's quite vain enough to translate "By experimentation, I can affirm that I personally can't touch him there," into the grand pronouncement, "No one, not even I, can touch him there."
He'd really hate admitting there was something his meanest followers could do that he couldn't.
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Date: 2012-02-06 05:54 am (UTC)As Vapormort all he could hope for was to posses Harry and cause him to suicide or go wherever Tom wanted him to go. But maybe Quirrellmort did attempt to invade 4PD that August and we had no idea.
Or do you think Tom based his assumptions on something he or one of his sources learned indirectly, from something that was said?
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Date: 2012-02-06 06:28 am (UTC)As you say, Vapormort could have possessed him, in theory, and Voldemort mentions in the graveyard that animals didn't survive being possessed by him for very long. If Voldemort could have possessed him for long enough, even if he couldn't make him do anything, it would presumably killed him. It'd take a while, yeah, but based on Quirrell's drinking of unicorn blood, it would have been well under a year, and Voldemort was happier possessing things than not, anyway.
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Date: 2012-02-06 06:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-06 07:52 pm (UTC)Tom knew that the protection on Harry's body came from the "old magic" of Lily's sacrifice, AND he somehow learned, whether empirically or by word-of-mouth, that the protections on 4PD were "ancient magic" invoked by Albus "to ensure the boy's protection as long as he is in his relations' care."
Yet he believed that the protection on 4PD still held.
Therefore, if, in fact, the only magical protection on 4PD was one which had been derived from Lily's sacrifice, then we must assume that In other words, either Albus placed magical protections on 4PD that were separate from Lily's sacrifice, or Tom was a complete idiot.
Then again, Tom also apparently never figured out that Harry was a horcrux....
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Date: 2012-02-07 02:14 am (UTC)Once he started getting into Harry's head, however, he really should have started wondering. Yes, they share blood now... but surely blood alone wouldn't account for that. Unless Tom knows nothing of blood magic beyond that door, which doesn't sound likely considering it's probably a useful avenue of immortality research. I mean, Albus is a blood magic expert, and we know he's another immortality-research junkie. Could Tom have been so proud as to avoid a field Albus specialized in? Sounds a bit extreme and counter-productive, but maybe he'd split off enough soul-bits by the time he went on his grand research tour to seriously impede his logic skills.
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Date: 2012-02-07 03:52 am (UTC)Then in HBP he lets Harry spend 2 weeks at 4PD with no special instructions about whether or not to go out (despite the fact that the war was on and dementors were about), and arranged for Harry to spend the June and July of the following year there, again with no special instructions. It is possible that following the dementors attack in OOTP Albus added extra protections for the 2 subsequent summers.
It is also possible that Severus was given the task of playing up the 4PD protections to Tom, to convince him that an attack while they held would be pointless. Voldemort swallowed the story whole, as we see in DH. I doubt the DEs only arrived after the Dursleys left and Harry's entourage arrived and everyone mounted their rides. But they waited until they believed the protection was no longer in force.
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Date: 2012-02-10 03:44 am (UTC)However--after Harry's escape from the graveyard we see Tom seriously spooked by the boy. Harry destroyed Tom's 16-year-old Horcrux-self and his lovely Basilisk. Harry threw off Tom's Imperius, and he turned Tom's own wand (and a selection of Tom's victims) against him.
For the next year we see Tom obsessed with trying to get that prophecy and see if there's something in it that explains how he can finally defeat the damn little kid. Once he knows that the prophecy has nothing that can help him, he brcomes obsessed with wandlore and getting a wand that can't be turned against him by Harry. (Oops.)
Notice that he doesn't want to go mano-a-mano with Harry after the graveyard until he thought he'd solved the wand problem (take Lucius's). (He does, at the DoM, but that's not his plan--it's his normal temper tantrum at having had his current plan thwarted, KILL THE MESSENGER. And since Harry doesn't lift his wand, but it saved by Dumbles, he's left unsure whether it could have worked had D. not intervened.) Then when Harry's amazaing auto-wand destroys that, he doesn't try again until he's found the Elder Wand and persuaded himself he's now its master.
And at THAT point Tom holds the whole of Hogwarts hostage to force Harry to turn himself over. He could have kidnapped any of Harry's friends, at any time, to lure Harry into a trap just as he lured Harry to the DOM to get the Prophecy for him.
So I think he didn't try to take Harry at 4PD before Harry was moved to 12GP because he didn't want to make another failed attempt on the boy, and wanted to figure out what the BOY's secret was first.
"Not even I can touch him there" because of DD's wards might be just the story he's giving his followers so they don't think him weaker than Harry.
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Date: 2012-02-10 07:27 am (UTC)Later, yes, he may have been awaiting a favorable situation.
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Date: 2012-02-10 04:32 pm (UTC)I should imagine the fact that Tommy had already had time--months, almost a year--to get over that first killing surge of rage at learning the Diary was lost, and the reflection that he really needed Lucius's connections, was the only reason Lucius survived his bad stewardship.
(Though whatever Tom DID do to punish Lucius was bad enough to scare BELLATRIX.)
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Date: 2012-02-12 03:42 am (UTC)I'm with Jodel that we can have a good guess as to *when* Tom learned of the loss of the diary. From the moment Tom regained his body until the DOM battle Harry was connected to Tom's emotional state. On August 12th, after Harry's hearing, he experiences an exceptionally strong instance of scar-pain. It is possible that this was the day he asked Lucius about the diary's whereabouts (possibly with the intent of launching it that year, maybe once he learned the full prophecy and had a better idea of how to tackle Harry), learned of its loss and punished Lucius for it.
Of course Rowling may have intended to say that Tom was expressing his disappointment that Harry would be under Hogwarts' protection that year again.
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Date: 2012-02-12 04:43 am (UTC)A) Would Tom have wanted to let his other slaves know that he was so dependent on Lucius as to forgive him such a lapse? (Or dependent on any of them at all?) Would he have wanted his slaves to know they could get away with overtly disobeying his instructions and betraying him, provided only they offered enough when he came to chastise them for their crimes?
B) COULD the Tom we saw have refrained from killing Lucius, had he been accessible when Tom learned the truth? When he learned of the theft (not destruction) of the Cup, he killed not just the messenger, but all of his servants who didn'tmanage to get out of the room first. And Bellatrix expected that reaction to the information that any property Tom had entrusted to her had been stolen.
But at that time Tom didn't know the locket and ring had been compromised, much less destroyed. He's got 6 Horcruxes; one has been destroyed, another stolen (presumably with intent to destroy), but so far as he knew Locket, Ring, Diadem and Nagini are all safe and intact. So sure he is of this he doesn't yet trouble to protect Nagini.
So his reaction is not at learning that he's half-way to being vulnerable to Death, but to learning that he'd lost ANY of his anchors.
To return to the first point: if Tom had known, and raged at Peter (the nursemaid whom he absolutely could not afford to kill in his current weakened state) about faithless Lucius--WOULD have have wanted to bring up Lucius's worst transgression before his fellow slaves, given that he currently needed Lucius too much to give him the punishment the self-serving traitor was due?
He couldn't kill Lucius. Yet. And to let Lucius live, while letting his other slaves know the magnitude of Lucius's crimes against his master, would give the wrong impression.
No. In public, accuse Lucius of some of the other crimes against his master of which he was guilty, those which he shared with almost all of his fellows. Tom's mercy, then, in not simply killing Lucius, is the same mercy he's extending to his other faithless followers. Not an expression of utter dependence.
And not an invitation to every other slave to try the like, provided only that slave hoped he could make himself too useful to the master to kill outright.
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Date: 2012-02-12 06:00 pm (UTC)What is odd is that Tom did not expect the destruction of the diary to eventually lead to a deliberate Horcrux hunt. Either he didn't realize the diary was destroyed by *Harry*, Albus' protege, or he didn't realize how much (if at all) of the diary's behavior Harry reported to Albus. Or perhaps he took the fact that he was able to survive the diary's destruction long enough to return to his body as evidence that Albus wasn't hunting Horcruxes and the reason for that being that for some reason Albus didn't make the connection.
Can we make an educated guess as to how much (or how little) of the events surrounding the loss of the diary Tom learned and which was the more likely source based on his inaction to protect the remaining Horcruxes?