OOTP Chapter Thirty-Four: "The Department of Mysteries"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* So the Threstrals are flying faster than Harry had ever flown before, at nightfall, and at a level high enough for them to look down and see the mountains below them. I hope they all know some good warming spells, because it must be pretty cold up there.

* Note how it’s Ron who comes off worst here, falling off his Threstral, walking into it, swearing never to ride one again. Hermione, Ginny, Neville and Luna, OTOH, get off fine. This sort of thing really is starting to look deliberate, although I can’t imagine quite why Rowling seems so keen to do Ron down all the time.

* Wow, security at the Ministry sure is tight. I’m not surprised Voldemort hasn’t felt able to come in beforehand and just take the Prophecy himself. /sarcasm

* Really, though, Voldie must know how crap the security arrangements are, as lots of his DEs are working for the Ministry, so he can’t even use the “I’d assumed they were halfway sensible, and that they wouldn’t let just anybody walk into their central government building” defence.

* Harry’s sure that the absence of the wand-examining witch (which is actually a pretty Freudian job, now that I come to think of it… :p) is a bad sign, and his sense of foreboding is growing with every step he takes. He still doesn’t think to go back and try and find some backup, though.

* Ginny’s “raising her eyebrow” at Harry now as she criticises his plan to have some people stay behind as backup. I wouldn’t mind her speaking coolly and raising her eyebrows if she did so once in a while, but it seems like literally every single thing she says is accompanied by some little body movement, as if to say “LOOK I’M REALLY COOL AND TOTALLY A MATCH FOR HARRY POTTER!” It just gets rather tiresome after a while.

* Any idea what the brains were for? Was this covered in one of the interviews, or did JKR leave it to us readers to work out for ourselves?

* So is the veil meant to be like the veil between life and death, then? And I take it that Harry and Luna can hear voices for the same reason they can see Threstrals, because they’ve seen death? And Sirius falls through because it would be an indignity for any human to kill a true Gryffindor like him, so he’s got to be killed by Death itself, without any human intermediaries.

* And Harry’s fascinated by the arch because he’s rather morbid and depressed and would probably welcome the idea of sliding into peaceful oblivion. Or, more likely, going to Heaven, where he and all the other Gryffindors are waited upon by dead Slytherins, who completely hate having to serve their arch-enemies. This saves space and allows Gryffindor Heaven and Slytherin Hell to be combined in one location.

* “‘That’s it then, isn’t it?’ said Ron excitedly, joining Harry in the attempt to force the door open. ‘Bound to be!’” Normally I’d point out that locking a door in a top-secret government department isn’t necessarily that significant, but given the security of the Ministry as a whole, I think Ron may be onto something here.

* Ron’s starting at the locked door “with a mixture of apprehension and longing”. Since I can’t remember much about the DOM section coming up, I’m not sure whether this turns out to be significant. Judging by JKR’s past form, I’d say the odds are about 50/50.

* I like the way Harry assumes that Sirius must be where he was in the dream, as if Voldemort couldn’t have moved him at all in the intervening time.

* Harry showing his usual primary school mentality here. “That prophecy’s got my name on it, therefore I’m allowed to take it!”

* And Harry gets ambushed by the Death Eaters! What an unexpected surprise. Or, on second thoughts, maybe not.

Comments

[sunnyskywalker]

I wonder if the DEs are wearing little badges from the phone booth that say, "Anonymous: Planning an ambush"? I liked the suggestion someone made here (I think) ages ago, that Pettigrew could have just put Babymort in a carpetbag last year, walked into the Ministry while everyone was busy with the World Cup, and had him snatch the prophecy then. Then he could have spent this year planting more agents/Imperiused puppets in the Ministry, laying the groundwork for the eventual coup, instead of having it happen in a couple of weeks.

Heh, a locked door. I'm currently working in a building which we share with another organization which has servers in some way connected to the government, and we need people with special badges just to open the door to our part of the building, never mind the not-even-top secret part. It's too bad they didn't bust through the locked door only to find a broom closet with heavy-duty cleaning supplies, because that would have been hilarious.

I would also like to see Harry try that trick elsewhere. "But Mr. CIA director, that file had my name on it! What do you mean I'm supposed to tell someone and fill out paperwork before I can see it and you might not let me anyway?"

I love your Gryffindor Heaven/Slytherin Hell concept. Do the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs get to be there too, happy to serve, or are they shuffled off somewhere else so no one has to remember they exist?

[oryx_leucoryx]

I liked the suggestion someone made here (I think) ages ago, that Pettigrew could have just put Babymort in a carpetbag last year, walked into the Ministry while everyone was busy with the World Cup, and had him snatch the prophecy then. Then he could have spent this year planting more agents/Imperiused puppets in the Ministry, laying the groundwork for the eventual coup, instead of having it happen in a couple of weeks.

Except even Pettigrew didn't know only Voldie and Harry could remove the prophecy from its shelf. Maybe Voldie would have had Peter take the prophecy and Peter would have lost what was left of his mind. Then BabyMort would have remained with no caretaker.

[sunnyskywalker]

That would have thrown quite a wrench in things! Would Barty Jr. have Imperiused some hapless nobody to be caretaker, then? Assuming Voldemort could get a message to him. He doesn't seem to have trusted any of the free DEs to do the job, but maybe he would have had to resort to Lucius Malfoy. That would have been interesting.

Why didn't they know about that restriction, though? It seems especially odd that they would go to all the trouble of Imperiusing Bode without also asking him, "So, what do you know about the security measures on these things?" Were they just trying to make OotP drag out longer or what? And timeline-wise, how hard would it have been, once they had Crouch under Imperius, to have him do the dirty work of Imperiusing someone to go after it? (Before he started seriously fighting it and went on "sick leave," that is. It might have been an option at least up until the first task, when he looked tired but not "wtf is wrong with him.") So long as he Obliviated his victim while leaving the Imperius intact, it couldn't be traced back to him without a great deal of trouble - and if St. Mungo's couldn't recover the memory of what Bode was doing in OotP and had to hope he would get better, there's no reason to think it would have been any different in GoF. It would have been easy enough for Crouch to find an excuse to get Bode alone, surely? ("We have an issue with something one of the foreign delegates mentioned during negotiations over the Tournament which suggested a possible breach of your department's security. If you would just step into my office to discuss it...?") Worst-case scenario, Peter could pop up from behind a trash can and zap Bode (or Podmore, or whomoever they target first) himself. Then Voldy would have had most of year 4 to find a time for Peter to sneak him in.

Maybe they didn't want to take any risks not connected to getting Voldemort's body back that year... but if so, they were going about it in a spectacularly risky way which seems unnecessary. (If they needed Harry specifically in June, Barty could just have sneaked in then Polyjuiced as a student for an hour and handed Harry a "support Cedric Diggory" badge made into a two-way portkey right before the third task, which would allow DEs to pop through, dump Harry's body, and assassinate Fudge or whatever the original plan was.) If they're going to Imperius a high-level Ministry employee and risk having a disguised DE camp out in school all year Confunding ancient artifacts and whatnot, why not Imperius an Unspeakable and ask him about security measures too? It doesn't seem especially more risky.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Voldie didn't care about the prophecy until after Harry's escape from the graveyard. He thought all the prophecy was about was specifying the threat against him. Once he dealt with the threat (while outdoing the thing that caused him trouble the last 2 times - Lily's protective magic) who cares about the prophecy? Only after Harry escaped *despite no longer having Lily's protection* did Tom consider the prophecy may have contained something more he should have considered.

[sunnyskywalker]

Because he is not a very thorough Evil Overlord :( I mean, a proper villain would probably want to steal it just in case, since it wouldn't actually take much work on his part. Then he could make sure there's nothing he missed - maybe a visual cue of some sort Snape couldn't have passed along - and meanwhile it's an excellent test run for any other Ministry-infiltrating schemes he may have on the back burner (got to make sure they haven't changed security measures since 1981, and he and Peter have both been out of the loop, and who knows what Crouch isn't aware of now that he's no longer in the DMLE). It could be essentially a side-quest in the midst of other Ministry-infiltrating schemes - surely there are other reasons to want an Unspeakable in his power, just to know what they get up to and whether they're a threat or have something he could use if nothing else? And while we're at it, let's just pop in and grab the thing because hey, it has my name on it and it would look nice on the mantel, and taking something the Ministry could use as propaganda out of their hands might be a good idea.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Also, I bet it took Severus reminding him that he never got the full prophecy for Tom to realize there could be something more there.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

But why on earth would Severus do that? Especially now we know that (alas) Jodel was wrong and Dumbledore was not laying a clever trap for Voldemort?

[oryx_leucoryx]

I'm not sure he wasn't. If all Dumbles wanted was to keep the globe out of Tommy's hands he should have arranged for its destruction. Send a minion (not necessarily Order member) to blast that shelf.

[oryx_leucoryx]

BTW not exactly a trap, just a time-waster. Get Tom obsessing about something while Albus went over his old Horcrux data, searched for Horace and some other odds and ends in preparation for the Horcrux hunt.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

BTW, what's wrong with livejournal? I can't get it to accept the icon I choose.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Um, JKR only vaguely thought this through, why should we think it through in detail if even the author couldn't be bothered giving her characters logical motivations?

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Because it's fun?

Seriously, for me the interest in HP/WW lies in the world that emerges as its internal consistency is sorted out, and logical reasons are identified which could produce what we see in the books. It's a much darker and more complex place than JKR insists, but one with lots of potential. The puzzle solving is fun, and reading the creativity and logic that other people put into it is a delight.

[corycides.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, considering what a weird collection of esoterica the Department of Mysteries is, that might have been the best thing possible for Babymort.

A low-level Clerk finding an abandoned grotesque snake-baby-thing in a carpet-bag wouldn't have gone, 'Oh no! An evil revenant part way through its rebirth! Quick, lets all jump up and down on it.'. He would probably just have sighed, 'People never remember to return this things to where they belong,' and shuffled off to the hall of evil things in carpet bags or taken it to lost property.

From there Babymort could have sneakily taken over everything, eventually just inviting Harry to a Quidditch Player of the Future award ceremony and giving him a shove through the Veil.

'Dumbledore played you for a fool, Harry. There was never a chance you would beat me. You were raised by muggles, I was raised by bureaucrats!'

(In my head, Voldie rather enjoyed spending his second formative years in the Department of Mysteries rather than under the care of a slightly demented bloke who had been a rat for some years. He benefited from the experience. Still evil, of course, but now properly appreciative of how organisation and a good filing system makes it go much smoother.)

[sunnyskywalker]

'Dumbledore played you for a fool, Harry. There was never a chance you would beat me. You were raised by muggles, I was raised by bureaucrats!'

:D :D :D

Every Dark Lord needs a good filing system.

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is wonderful :D
The WW wouldn't have a chance!

BTW "lets all jump up and down on it" - ROFL!

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

if the DEs are wearing little badges from the phone booth that say, "Anonymous: Planning an ambush"?
That mad me laugh.

Locked door.

I've worked a lot of places where the office supply room door was locked. So maybe they could bust in to find the Wizarding paper clips and post it notes. (Got to keep the theft down)

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Note how it’s Ron who comes off worst here, falling off his Threstral, walking into it, swearing never to ride one again. Hermione, Ginny, Neville and Luna, OTOH, get off fine. This sort of thing really is starting to look deliberate, although I can’t imagine quite why Rowling seems so keen to do Ron down all the time./

Maybe she’s just following Steve Kloves’ lead of making Ron the comic relief sidekick?

/I like the way Harry assumes that Sirius must be where he was in the dream, as if Voldemort couldn’t have moved him at all in the intervening time./

*snorts* This is the same kid who’s been getting visions from Voldemort all year and yet automatically assumes that his vision of Sirius must be true and could not possibly be a trap.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

* Wow, security at the Ministry sure is tight. I’m not surprised Voldemort hasn’t felt able to come in beforehand and just take the Prophecy himself. /sarcasm
Don't remind me - I spent quite some time between the release of OotP and HBP wondering what on earth this whole thing could have meant - surely, it couldn't be that easy to get inside the DoM? And if the DE had done away with any security measures to clear the way for Harry, why didn't Voldy pop in and get his prophecy? In fact, it looked like there was a third party involved - and if so, how and who? In fact, this whole conundrum would only have made sense, if Harry had been the only one capable to remove the glass globe from the DoM - but just like with Portkeys working just fine in and out of Hogwarts, Joanne shot herself in the foot again. Unnecessarily so. Ahaha, I shouldn't have bothered...

[sunnyskywalker]

It would have made a lot more sense if a mole had cleared the way and Harry alone could pick it up, yes. Especially since building up a corps of agents within the Ministry would seem like a good plan toward the coup 2 years later. Of course that raises new problems, like, how do the prophecy globes even work, anyway? Does one just appear on a shelf any time a prophecy is made, and no one ever touches them? And occasionally someone comes in and recognizes a globe... somehow... and affixes a label to the shelf guessing at the possible subject(s) of the prophecy? That just does not work. There must be some way for the Unspeakables to handle them. Maybe only one or two that specifically work in that room can lift the protections, and Bode wasn't one of them, but still.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Dumbles mentions a 'Keeper of the Hall of Prophecies' who changed the '?' to Harry's name on this particular record.

[sunnyskywalker]

And was that because of information Dumbledore gave them, or do they have some way of watching the things themselves and made the call after Voldemort's disappearance?

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

Have we ever been given an explanation for why someone from the Order didn't intercept the kids when they arrived at the MoM to stop them from entering the building? It seems like it took long enough for the kids to get to London that the Order could have already been there waiting for them.

[sunnyskywalker]

Good question. How long did it take for Snape to get ahold of them - or just one or two of them, if they have a phone tree (well, Floo tree) set up? We know he wasn't out rescuing Umbridge, because Dumbledore did that later. Was everyone in the shower for six hours? Did it take take forever to ask the IS members what they saw and send them to bed?

And he wouldn't have had to "hack" any protections on the fireplace which might record the conversation, because Umbridge's isn't monitored and he could send a Patronus message even if it were. Though we have no idea how long those things take to travel long distances, so maybe Umbridge's fireplace had a private setup which recorded all calls for her personal archives (never know when you might need blackmail material?) and Snape's Patronus messages would be about as slow getting to any Order members as Thestrals are getting to London, so he had to either spend time covertly and temporarily disabling the one or waste time sending the other. But that's introducing too many "what-ifs" for my taste.

[oryx_leucoryx]

We don't know how Severus contacted the Order, but Albus tells us it wasn't via Umbridge's fireplace and he probably didn't send his Patronus because the following year Albus was surprised to see it was still the doe. So he must have had some other method - maybe he arranged for Phineas to visit a portrait in the dungeon.

We are supposed to believe he went to search for the kids in the forest and only sent his message when it was clear they were not there. If he arrived at the forest after the thestrals had cleared the school area then he had no way of knowing whether the kids made it out of the forest without searching and verifying they weren't there (being eaten by Acromantulae or whatever).

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

He wouldn't have even known that they were *going* to the forest, though. Eventually, he may have checked, but the forest was only discussed after he left. He probably searched the castle first of all, and while not knowing (at least at first) that Umbridge wasn't there.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Didn't the members of the IS hear that Hermione was leading Umbridge to the forest, or at least out of the castle?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think so. Okay, as soon as he thought to ask them, he'd have an idea. He might have to be wary about what/how he asked them, though. Maybe not.

[maidofkent.livejournal.com]

The IS don't know that Hermione is taking Umbridge to the Forest. All she says in front of them is that she will take Umbridge to the weapon - no indication of where it is meant to be hidden, or whether it's inside or outside the castle. I suppose Snape could question any portraits who might have seen them and learn that they left the castle, but he'd still have to check the grounds themselves, and presumably check they hadn't got back inside by another entrance.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

He may not have been out rescuing Umbridge, but he was out looking for the kids - and, I'd guess, it would have taken him quite awhile to figure that they had gone to London. As far as he knew, they were in danger in the Forbidden Forest, and had no way of leaving there. None of them had brooms and none of them were old enough to apparate.

My two cents.

[sunnyskywalker]

In that case, calling out the Order to form a search party sounds a lot more efficient than wandering around the forest himself. Maybe they did that before trying London. (Though, given Harry's record of ending up in difficult-to-get-to places, like the Chamber of Secrets, maybe sending one person to check just in case while the rest searched the forest would have been a good plan. They could Apparate back to the area quickly enough if the kids weren't in the Ministry, and if the were, one adult as backup who can call for more is better than nothing.)