Sirius Black and Albus Dumbledore
Dec. 3rd, 2012 12:27 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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deathtocapslockThis is not so much a theory as a loose collection of ideas and irrational fears. But I am very paranoid about Dumbledore and recently I’ve come to suspect that he sent Sirius to Azkaban, knowing that Sirius was innocent. It’s certainly not what Rowling intended, but this is how it comes across.
I’m new here, so I apologize if this has been posted before, but I searched the tags and couldn’t find anything, so basically what I’ve noticed is: “I was Junior Minister in the Department of Magical Catastrophes at the time, and I was one of the first on the scene after Black murdered all those people. I — I will never forget it.” - Cornelius Fudge in PoA, chapter 10.
So Fudge was a Junior Minister (And what is that anyway? There’s only one Minister. The Department Heads run the departments.) dealing with Magical Catastrophes, he was one of the first on the scene when Sirius was captured and a mere decade later he is the Minister for Magic. Why was he promoted so quickly? Surely there were better qualified, better connected people clamouring for the job, so why give it to Fudge? Because he captured Sirius Black, perhaps?
Then there’s this.
“They wanted Dumbledore fer Minister, o’ course, but he’d never leave Hogwarts, so old Cornelius Fudge got the job. Bungler if ever there was one. So he pelts Dumbledore with owls every morning, askin’ fer advice.” - Hagrid in PS/SS, chapter five.
If Dumbledore was so popular and everyone wanted to see him as Minister, wouldn’t he have had a say in who did become Minister? He’d choose someone completely dependant on him, of course. And also, he’d need to reward Fudge for capturing Black.
Later, when asked to speak up for Sirius, Dumbledore says:
“There is not a shred of proof to support Black’s story, except your word — and the word of two thirteen-year-old wizards will not convince anybody. A street full of eyewitnesses swore they saw Sirius murder Pettigrew. I myself gave evidence to the Ministry that Sirius had been the Potters’ Secret-Keeper.” - PoA, chapter 21.
It’s been mentioned here many times that there’s no reason why Harry wouldn’t be believed and that Dumbledore just wanted Sirius on the run, so I won’t go into all that again. But what about that “I myself gave evidence” part of his statement? When did he give evidence if there was no trial? Why didn’t he ensure that Sirius got a trial in the first place? Why did he give evidence without first talking to Sirius? Why didn’t he at least speak to Sirius after? He could visit Morfin Gaunt in Azkaban if he wanted to, so why, seeing how Dumbledore believed that Voldemort wasn’t dead, couldn’t he pull a few strings to visit that notorious Death Eater Black who might be able to tell him more about Voldemort. Even if he did believe Sirius was guilty, then why didn’t he at least ask the man what made him betray his best friend?
It all makes sense though, if Dumbledore wanted Sirius to remain in Azkaban. As for why he would want that, well he needed to raise Harry into the perfect suicide terrorist so he might want Sirius out of the picture. The man would have adopted Harry otherwise, and then what? No Dursleys, no suicidal Harry.
This might not be reason enough and on it’s own it does sound pretty weak, but when looking at Dumbledore's attitude towards Sirius in general, it’s enough to scare me.
Dumbledore was probably put out that Sirius was chosen as secret keeper over him and he was definitely (understandably, I admit) mad about the werewolf incident in Sirius’s fifth year, so he didn’t much like Sirius as a person. In GoF, Sirius writes to Dumbledore as well as Harry, yet he is still living in a cave, eating rats. How hard would it be for Dumbledore to order someone utterly loyal to him (Hagrid, McGonagall) to feed a poor homeless dog in Hogsmeade? He could also send food with an owl. I’m not even going into Dumbledore’s humiliating treatment of Sirius in OotP, because that could fill a book.
Like I said, this isn’t really a proper theory and I do make quite a lot of assumptions. I just have a lot of unanswered question and “Dumbledore wanted Sirius out of the way” happens to be the fitting answer for most of them. Really I’m hoping that you guys can convince me that Dumbledore just made a giant mistake and didn’t sent Sirius to rot in prison knowing he was innocent, because as much as I loathe Dumbledore I still don’t want to believe that of him. Or perhaps you can prove that he did do it and at least put my mind at rest.
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Date: 2012-12-03 09:07 pm (UTC)I'm more put out that Albus didn't insist on a trial. It is rather contrary to the legal system of the United Kingdom. That said - I'm not entirely sure that means anything to the Wizarding World, based on Harry's 'hearing' in bk5, that had many markings of an actual trial.
I think the biggest problem I have with the whole set up is that we KNOW there is a way to show memories that would PROVE exactly what happened. Yes, there are ways to 'fake' memories, however, IF the memories were taken almost immediately after the event, it would seem difficult to fake convincingly. Sluggie had many years to develop a fake memory and yet his was noticeably faked. There are several instances where it would seem that viewing a pensive memory would have been appropriate, but JKR didn't use it as a method of proof at those times.
It is entirely possible (altho' never once mentioned in the books) that Albus had the ONLY pensieve in existence. If so, then it might be that the rest of the Wizarding World has no idea that the memories shown are absolutely truthful and therefore they would not trust them in legal trials.
IF pensieve memories could be used when legalities are determined, then not only could Sirius have proven his innocence by showing the memory of Peter telling him the secret, but Fudge would have been shown Voldy's return immediately when he declined to believe Harry in bk4. The kids' memories of Peter in bk3 would have shown Peter to still be alive and Harry's memory of the dementors at Privet Drive would have shown that they really were there.. In other words, JKR's plots would have all been destroyed.
To add to that, IF pensieves were actually known outside of the one Albus apparently had, then why wouldn't Voldy have used one to get the full prophecy as soon as he realized Snape missed part of it? We know from Harry's trips into it that one isn't restricted to only what the person whose memory it was actually consciously remembers, but also to what is happening nearby that they may not actually know they 'saw'.
As for Albus 'giving testimony' about Sirius as SK - I am unsure whether Albus was told the location of the Potters or not. IF not, then he was able to tell Hagrid where to go look for Harry because the SK betrayed the trust and the fidelius 'broke' - at which point it was no longer a secret presumably. Why Albus was the first aware of the breaking I don't know - but he apparently knows before Sirius, since he can send Hagrid to arrive at their home to get Harry before Sirius makes it there himself. Presumably, Albus had some kind of warning system. After all, he DID suspect that someone 'close to the Potters' was Voldy's spy.
Alternatively, IF Albus had been informed of the Potters whereabouts, then the secret was given to him in a way that implied Sirius was the SK. That would most likely have been part of the Marauders' SK switch trick. I think the reason that Albus was not the SK had to do with the Potters (and Sirius) learning that Albus had once been friends with Grindlewald. IF they somehow feared he was not to be trusted (and therefore should not be SK), then they might also fear letting him know Peter was really the SK. One would suppose they wouldn't want him to know where they were either, however presumably they thought the actual information of the location was safe even if they didn't trust him. So, it IS possible that Albus was telling the truth as he knew it - that Sirius was the SK. But only because the Marauders tricked him into believing it.
As for Junior Ministers, presumably the WW's ministry is based on the UK's with many ministers, their jr. ministers and a 'prime' minister over all of them. We just never met any of them except apparently Junior Minister Fudge, since Harry never met any of them.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-05 06:31 am (UTC)I am inclined to think Crouch had a strong motivation not to hold that trial. In GOF Sirius says Barty Jr was caught with people who had talked their way out of Azkaban before. Most readers assume Bella et al pleaded Imperius, like Lucius, Avery and others. But what if Bella's first arrest was while the war was still ongoing and Voldemort still embodied, and believed to be just a step or two away from winning? She wouldn't have denied her Master while he was still around. But she could have used extortion on Crouch: If he did not let the Lestranges go, someone on the outside might reveal what company Crouch Jr was keeping. So she is let go, and not too long afterwards her cousin is caught. Was he the one Bella spoke of? The one who had the information about Barty Jr? Better silence him.
I don't know if Albus could have forced a trial against Crouch's objection, but for that to happen he would have need to be very motivated to have that trial. A trial which would have exposed his incompetence in stopping Sirius in the face of private information from Albus' spy that there was a leak in the Order. Since the evidence at hand confirmed everyone's biases and all those in power had things to hide there was no push for a trial.
As for Hagrid's arrival: Sirius went looking for Peter. The latter's absence was what sent him to Godric's Hollow. Since Sirius was in the know, then the timing of the breaking of the Fidelius had no bearing on his arrival. If the time Sirius expected to meet Peter was later than the attack we don't really know how long it took him to arrive. Besides, he was flying. That takes time, as opposed to Apparition or Portkeying. (Or perhaps he Apparated with the motorbike to the vicinity of the house?) We don't know how Hagrid travelled to Godric's Hollow, but we do know he had time to chat with Minerva sometime between being assigned his mission and the following morning, when she started her vigil at 4PD. (Yes, I know, Rowling never worked this out either. If she ever releases a new version of the 24 hours, I expect more contradictions.) He could have travelled by Portkey from Albus' office (or wherever it was that Albus talked to him), taken Harry by motorbike somewhere safe, maybe the Hogwarts hospital wing, talked to Minerva while Harry was being cared for and then taken Harry to 4PD the following night. Still, we know that Albus already decided Harry was to go to Petunia's even before he sent Hagrid. This adds a complication: if Albus made that decision really because of the circumstances of Lily's death, how much detailed could his understanding of events have been? Unless his initial reason to choose Petunia was something else, and the blood-protection was something he added after investigating Godric's Hollow during the 24 hours? (Or perhaps Terri's fic is closer to the 'truth' - Albus used time-travel.)
Suspecting Albus because of Bathilda's revelation is probably the most generous motive one can attribute to the Potters. Because otherwise we would have to think they took an incredible risk for the thrill of thinking themselves cleverer than both Albus and Tom. But that would mean that sometime after Harry's birthday they decided there was a real chance Albus would hand them to Voldemort. In that case, why hadn't he done so already? They must have suspected he had a most convoluted plan - maybe they actually understood him better than most.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-06 06:32 am (UTC)Whatever the reason, we can be at least reasonably sure that Lily knew Albus was once friends with Gellert Grindlewald - based on her letter to Sirius. Perhaps it was less about fearing Albus might turn them over and more about discovering he could make mistakes? Feet of Clay? Maybe learning about his friendship with Gellert is what convinced the Marauders that they really DID know better than Albus? After all, they were pretty confident that they could always recognize the bad ones from the start. Or at least I think Sirius and James thought that they could recognize that Snape was bad news from the beginning. And if Albus couldn't see Gellert was bad from the start then maybe he wasn't as smart as them (in their eyes)
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Date: 2012-12-06 06:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-06 04:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-08 09:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-12-11 04:55 pm (UTC)He's determined to tell Harry more than Albus wishes Harry to know even immediately after the Order meeting on Harry's first night at #12. I know many see that as more sticking up for Harry than distrusting Albus' judgement, but we also have it in Sirius' comments about Snape's loyalty - the way Sirius believes that Snape is still a DE.
Also, the way Sirius refuses to let Snape speak to Harry alone (when telling him about occlumency lessons) even after reading Albus' letter asking for just that. We even see it back in that earlier argument with Molly that before Harry arrived at #12, Albus had to repeatedly remind Sirius to stay at #12 even tho' it had only been a month. True, it apparently was horrible for Sirius to be there, but he couldn't even trust Albus' judgement about that for less than a month, probably considerably less than that since he had to be told more than once.
It's interesting that bk4 Sirius seems to trust Albus considerably more - at least in regards to whether Snape is or isn't a DE, since he's a teacher. But once Sirius knows Snape bears the Mark, Albus' judgement becomes suspect. An even tho' he watched Snape volunteerly show the mark to Fudge to prove Albus is correct about Voldy's return, without Albus asking him to do so - hardly the action of a loyal DE.
One could even say that Sirius doesn't trust Albus in bk3. It certainly could have been possible for Sirius to have Crookshanks deliver a letter to Albus regarding Ron's rat. I can understand that Sirius' thought processes at the time were probably quite scrambled by Azkaban, but IF Peter had actually wanted to harm Harry, then it was more important to make Albus aware of the danger.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-08 09:10 pm (UTC)I still dislike this explanation. There was an entire week between the casting of the Fidelius and Tom's attack. I can't believe Peter dared to wait that long to tell the secret to Tom. He'd have told the first chance he had, and then Voldemort may have waited a few days - whether because he wanted to make sure the Potters were off-guard, or something to do with the other plans he was running in parallel (maybe he needed to schedule an urgent meeting with Lucius or Bella to give them a special item to watch, maybe he needed his people in the Ministry to do something), or perhaps he was waiting for All Hallows Eve specifically. Which means the secret should have been broken for days before the attack, yet nobody did anything about it either way.
As for Junior Ministers, presumably the WW's ministry is based on the UK's with many ministers, their jr. ministers and a 'prime' minister over all of them. We just never met any of them except apparently Junior Minister Fudge, since Harry never met any of them.
But starting from GOF, the people directly under the Minister are called Department Heads. So either she originally intended to call them Junior Ministers and changed her mind or the hierarchy is: Minister for Magic, 7 Department Heads, a number of Junior Ministers in each department. Oh, and Umbridge was Senior Undersecretary to the Minister.
In GOF the maddened Crouch Sr babbles over a memory of attending a concert with his wife, son and Mr and Mrs Fudge, which makes Cornelius and Bartemius close enough in social status back in the day (were they equals, or was it more like the Dursleys and the Masons?).