[identity profile] sweettalkeress.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock
Phoenix
MOM Classificaton: XXXX

The Phoenix is a red-and-gold bird that hails from the mountains of Egypt, South Asia, and China (go figure). One of its most remarkable features is its ability to burst into flames and regenerate. Now, Rowling states that this enables the bird to reach “an immense age.” That begs the question: do Phoenixes die permanently? Is there any way to permanently kill a Phoenix? I know that at least one fanfic has posited that the Phoenix's regenerative capabilities relate to its healing tears somehow, and that if those are disabled the Phoenix will permanently die; but that's never come up in canon.

Anyway, Phoenixes are herbivorous and completely non-aggressive. In fact, as a footnote explains:

The Phoenix gains a XXXX rating not because it is aggressive, but because very few wizards have ever succeeded in domesticating it.

Which, I'm sure, is supposed to bluntly force the point that Albus Dumbledore is a special snowflake for having a pet Phoenix. However, if the Phoenix is so gentle and nonviolent, it raises the question of just how good of a mascot it is for Gryffindor (as Fawkes seems to be in CoS). After all, Gryffindors value bravery and charging into violent situations head-on above all else, and most prominent ones display a bit of a sadistic streak. Is it just because the bird's red and gold?

Maybe I'm overthinking this—I'm pretty sure that the real reason why Fawkes belongs to Dumbledore and helps Harry acquire the Sword of Gryffindor is so he remains relevant and useful.

Anyway, other abilities Phoenixes have include tears with healing powers, the ability to disappear and reappear at will, and a song that can embolden the pure of heart and terrify the “impure,” whatever that's supposed to mean.

phoenix

Fun fact: when I was a little girl I used to wish I was a Phoenix. The idea of being a beautiful magical bird that never died seemed really cool at the time.

Date: 2013-01-17 02:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
"After all, Gryffindors value bravery and charging into violent situations head-on above all else, and most prominent ones display a bit of a sadistic streak."

LOL! Sadly too true.

From a Doylist perspective I rather suspect that Fawkes' true name is Deus Ex Machina, aka Rowling Forgot How To Plot Properly. The geographic spread has got to be JKR trying to tie all of the phoenix-like myths into one instead of putting any serious work into the differences between wizarding culture and fauna in Europe and elsewhere.

Also: Christ Symbols. Because it can't be hammered in strongly enough that Harry Is Jesus, amirite?

Putting on my Watsonian hat for a moment, though, I rather like the suggestion that Fawkes was something of a bribe from Flamel to Dumbles to Do Something About Gellert, Already. (I can't recall who made this suggestion, though I suspect it was either swythyv or Jodel. Sorry!) It helps me respect Fawkes more, at any rate.

Date: 2013-01-17 07:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
swythyv. But the timeline doesn't work: For Tom's wand to have Fawkes' feather in its core Albus must have had him before 1938, whereas according to Rita Skeeter Albus only started his procrastination regarding Gellert in 1940.

Date: 2013-01-17 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
Why couldn't Fawkes have given the feather when he was still Flamel's?

Date: 2013-01-17 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Why would Flamel suddenly want to have dealings with Ollivander? I think Albus wanted the same thing Tom wanted later - information about the whereabouts of the Elder Wand. Especially in light of rumors that his old friend Gellert had acquired some exceptionally powerful wand.

Date: 2013-01-17 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Or perhaps Albus wanted to know how to win the Wand from its master.

Date: 2013-01-17 10:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
Regarding Phoenix deaths - I was most disappointed that we didn't see Fawkes in bk7. We're left with the impression that he died in mourning Albus (and if that doesn't make Albus a real 'special snowflake' nothing will) at the funeral.

I 'still' tend to hope he secretly visited Headmaster Snape to give hope with his song thru the year and then rescued him from death in the Shrieking Shack.

Date: 2013-01-17 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
We're left with the impression that he died in mourning Albus (and if that doesn't make Albus a real 'special snowflake' nothing will) at the funeral.


We are? First time I see this interpretation. I thought he was freed from his Master, finally doing his own thing.

Date: 2013-01-18 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
Oh THANK YOU!!!!! I much prefer your interpretation! So Fawkes is not dead, he just refused to have anything more to do with Potterverse - perhaps he has taken himself off to another fantasy. And since he was no longer 'enslaved' by Albus, no longer would appear to those who were being terribly loyal to Albus (like Snape in bk7)

Date: 2013-01-18 01:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolf-willow31.livejournal.com
I was most disappointed that we didn't see Fawkes in bk7

Me too. Without Fawkes, Dobby had to take over as the 'deus ex machina' in Bk 7. It could have been Fawkes, but of course then Harry wouldn't have been able to get all emo at Dobby's funeral.

Maybe Fawkes didn't think Harry was worth bothering about anymore by Bk 7. ;)

Date: 2013-01-17 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madderbrad.livejournal.com
... it raises the question of just how good of a mascot it is for Gryffindor (as Fawkes seems to be in CoS).

I never got the impression that Fawkes was the Gryffindor mascot. The *hat* was a relic of Godric's, sure (I believe it's called "Godric's hat?") but Fawkes just carried it to Harry. Maybe Fawkes is a good Ravenclaw who knew which deus ex machina would be needed to save Harry. :-)

Phoenixes have certainly been used to good avail in many fan fiction stories. In many of them we know that Dumbledore is evil because Fawkes leaves him. In others Albus is evil because he's shown to be controlling Fawkes against his will. In many Fawkes changes his allegiance to Harry. It's all fun stuff. Often the loyalty of Fawkes is a useful indicator to reassure we readers that his master - Dumbledore or Harry - is one of the good guys for whom we can barrack. An avian benediction.

Date: 2013-01-17 11:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oneandthetruth.livejournal.com
In others Albus is evil because he's shown to be controlling Fawkes against his will.

See, that's what I was thinking. I'm sure we're supposed to believe Albus has a phoenix because he's a "special snowflake" (a rather yellow one, pun intended), but it also works if he's evil.


Date: 2013-01-17 11:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oneandthetruth.livejournal.com
Fun fact: when I was a little girl I used to wish I was a Phoenix. The idea of being a beautiful magical bird that never died seemed really cool at the time.

That's a wish you might be glad was never fulfilled. I have an old comic book that has a story about a man who also wished for that and whose wish was granted.

This young, healthy man had a morbid fear of death, so he made a deal with a phoenix to become one so he could live forever. The bird explained he would incinerate the man, and he would be reborn as his present age from the ashes. The bird would return periodically to repeat the procedure, but it would be at his convenience, so the man would never know when the bird was coming. The only way he could die would be if his body was completely obliterated.

The man was immediately incinerated, which was every bit as agonizing as you might think. After that, the man didn't fear death; he feared being immolated again. He lived every second in fear that the phoenix was coming back. One day when he was walking down the street, he heard wings behind him and began running in terror, convinced the phoenix was after him. He ran, screaming, "No! No! Get away! I've changed my mind! Don't burn me again! Don't burn me!" He ran right into a metal refinery and fell off a catwalk into a vat of molten metal, which obliterated his body. A worker at the facility said to the cute little songbird who had followed him in, "Wow, that guy was nuts. How could anybody be afraid you?"

I also want to recommend again the wonderful fanfic by our own wolf_willow31, Birds of a Feather, in which Fawkes rescues Snape after Nagini's attack, and they go adventuring together. Unlike most of the real HP books, this sweet and adorable story is ideal for children.

Date: 2013-01-18 04:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolf-willow31.livejournal.com
That comic book sounds like an old EC horror comic.

One of the biggest plot problems for Birds of a Feather was trying to explain why a powerful magical bird like Fawkes would be loyal to someone like Dumbledore. I had to go with the idea that Fawkes is reasonably accepting and nonjudgmental (and somewhat naïve), and Dumbledore had him fooled. That also makes it easy for Fawkes to decide to help Snape and accept him.

(Thanks for the rec! *blushes*)

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