Fifteen Years: Reflections on Aberforth

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

In a response to the sporking of DH C2 by oneandthetruth, Hwyla wrote:


Although I think we were meant to believe Aberforth has an unhealthy relationship with his goats, my very favorite theory I ever heard on his inappropriate charms was that he had invented one to make the goats expel bezoars (rather than having to be killed to harvest them) and so had basically a bezoar farm on the side.

One thing I had not noticed until this sporking - the date of this accusation. For some reason, I had just always thought this happened in his youth - probably because it was connected in my mind with Albus saying he didn't think Aberforth could read.

However, fifteen years ago when Harry has just turned 17 means roughly just as Harry turned 2 or so. I've never wondered before what the 'inappropriate charms' might have had to do with the year after of the fall of Voldy. And just WHY, with all the DEs to round up, were the aurors concentrating on Aberforth's goats!

I somewhat wonder whether they thought he was a DE based on the reputation of the Hogs Head and the goats were the only thing they could arrest him on.


*



I started to post this as a response to Hwyla, but it metastasized, as these things do.

I’m getting queasy thinking about the fact that Aberforth was convicted by the Wizengamot of inappropriate use of magic fifteen years before Skeeter’s publicity for her bio of Albus in summer of 1997.

Fifteen years before 1997 is 1982. Anytime January to December 1982 might legitimately be called fifteen years before mid 1997.

Only, see, I know how I refer to times. When I’m talking in late spring/early summer about something that happened two winters earlier, I speak of it as having happened, say, November before last. Or, Christmas a year ago.

Over time, that would get morphed to “Christmas ten years ago” and finally to “fifteen years ago”. I tend to round down, not up, in casual speaking. Fifteen and a half, contrary to formal mathematical usage, usually becomes fifteen, not sixteen.

Okay, but that’s just me.

But we know that Aberforth’s case was tried before the Wizengamot. How efficient does the Wizard judicial system look to you?

When Harry Potter was caught transgressing by a Minister for Magic who wanted his blood (or at least, his silence and banishment), it took about a fortnight between Harry’s offense and his hearing. That’s with Harry’s notoriety and the anxiety of the Ministry greasing every possible wheel to get Harry the earliest possible (biased) hearing.

How long does it usually take before more routine cases come to trial? Morfin was told in midsummer that his hearing would be in mid-September. And that was during peacetime, when there wouldn’t have been a backlog of war crime cases.

In late 1981 and early 1982, as Hwyla points out, the Wizengamot must have been utterly overwhelmed with very high-profile cases indeed of suspected Death Eaters trying to plead innocence, or failing that, the Imperius.

So if Aberforth were convicted of “inappropriate magic” sometime in 1982, there’s at least a good chance that he was actually arrested in late 1981.

Say, in the roundups immediately subsequent to the defeat of You-Know-Who.

And as Hwyla and others so rightly point out, it’s wildly unlikely that the Aurors really would target anyone, at that point in time, for practicing inappropriate charms on an animal. No PETA members in the WW, remember? And not when all available Aurors were so thoroughly engrossed in pursuing larger fish.

So then who did?

*

Setting firmly aside anything Albus might have had to say about his brother, what do we know?

We know that Aberforth moved to Hogsmeade (eschewing his childhood homes both at Godric’s Hollow and at Mould-on-the Wold) and ran a rather disreputable pub there.

We know that this pub seemed a congenial gathering place for Death Eaters over quite a span of time: in the ‘50’s/60’s (whenever it was that Tom begged Albus for a teaching post), in the early ‘80’s (when Severus Snape was on hand to overhear a Prophecy), and in 1998 (when the threat to turn them out made the DE’s agree that the stag Patronus they’d seen must have been a goat).

And we know some other things.

We know, for example, what Aberforth says when he speaks for himself.

And some of that is rather ugly.

I like Ab, if only for his resistance to his brother.

But I’m pretty sure by now that he would never have tolerated the likes of me.

We have three accounts of Percival’s crime, and Aberforth’s tells us both much more, and oddly less, than the other two.

Elphias said, “Alhus had arrived at Hogwarts under the burden of unwanted notoriety. Scarcely a year previously, his father, Percival, had been convicted of a savage and well-publicized attack upon three young Muggles.”

Rita characterized Percival as “the Muggle-maiming father.”

Aberforth told us, “When my sister was six years old, she was attacked, set upon, by three Muggle boys. They’d seen her doing magic, spying through the back garden hedge…. What they saw scared them, I expect. They forced their way through the hedge, and when she couldn’t show them the trick, they got a bit carried away trying to stop the little freak doing it.”

So Ariana was attacked by three other children, boys, who had been frightened by her and got “carried away” by their fear. They were just trying to “stop” her, according to Aberforth’s understanding, not to do her actual harm. Most people, and the Muggle justice system, would consider these factors all to be mitigating circumstances.

And Aberforth?

Aberforth stood up, tall as Albus, and suddenly terrible in his anger and the intensity of his pain.

“It destroyed her, what they did: She was never right again…. at times she was strange and dangerous. But mostly she was sweet and scared and harmless.

“And my father went after the bastards that did it,” said Aberforth, “and attacked them. And they locked him up in Azkaban for it. He never said why he’d done it, because if the Ministry had known what Ariana had become, she’d have been locked up in St. Mungo’s for good.”

Um.

Somehow, what’s conveyed by these words is not unqualified support for the Ministry’s efforts to uphold law and order.

Or chivalry towards those Muggle children, utterly defenseless before an adult wizard’s rage.


“The bastards that did it”?



Um, but you’ve just told us that the perpetrators were terrified children who didn’t mean real harm, Ab! And what precisely did Percival do to them in vengeance, in this “attack” of his?

Interestingly non-explicit term to use. Did he slap their faces, or what?

Elphias said that the “attack” had been “savage;” Rita called it a “maiming.”

Moreover, we know that Morfin, a repeat offender who violently resisted arrest, got only three years in Azkaban for a painful and public, but easily reversed, attack upon his Muggle neighbor. When he followed that (supposedly) with a Muggle-murder, he got life.

We don’t know what Percival’s sentence had been, but we know both that he died eventually in Azkaban, and that he’d been there well over a year. And it’s wildly unlikely that Percival had risked his family (the family he was trying to protect by never explaining his motive) by dueling with the arresting Aurors, as Morfin had.

So it really seems that whatever it was that had been done to those three children, was what provoked the severity of Percival’s sentence.

And that Percival’s supposed actions {See Swythyv about the point of “supposed”) had met with Aberforth’s general approval.

Elphias told us further, “Some, indeed, were disposed to praise his father’s action and assumed that Albus too was a Muggle-hater. They could not have been more mistaken.”

Maybe. But I bet they weren’t mistaken at all in making the same assumption about Percival’s younger son.

I think that Aberforth became a notorious Muggle-hater, going so far as to relocate to Hogsmeade, the only place in all of Britain where he wouldn’t have their stink in his nostrils.

(Or risk Azkaban by being tempted to repeat his father’s crime.)


No wonder, as Tom started recruiting followers on a platform of ruling over Muggles openly, his followers would expect the proprietor of the Hog’s Head to welcome their custom.


But what the Death Eaters didn’t know was that there was one thing (and maybe one only) that Aberforth hated worse even than the Muggles who’d destroyed his sister’s magic and future: charismatic, brilliant wizard supremacists who propose to subjugate those Muggles by force.

Like, you know, the wizard who’d killed her (whichever it was).


“But he did all right for a few weeks [Albus taking care of Ariana]… till he came.”

And now a positively dangerous look crept over Aberforth’s face.

“Grindelwald. And at last, my brother had an equal to talk to, someone just as bright and talented as he was. Looking after Ariana took a backseat then, while they were hatching all their plans for a new Wizarding Order, and looking for Hallows, and whatever else it was they were so interested in. Grand plans for the benefit of all Wizardkind, and if one young girl got neglected, what did that matter, when Albus was working for the greater good?

“But after a few weeks of it, I’d had enough, I had….

“And there was an argument… and I pulled out my wand, and he pulled out his, and I had the Cruciatus Curse used on me by my brother’s best friend—and Albus was trying to stop him, and then all three of us were dueling, and the flashing lights and the bangs set her off, she couldn’t stand it—“

“…and I don’t know which of us did it, it could have been any of us—and she was dead.”

(I hadn’t noticed before that Aberforth had not only initiated the argument—in Ariana’s hearing, stupidly—he’d also been the first to pull his wand. Escalating from words to potential violence. Nor was Ab sure that it wasn’t his own spell that had killed her. His guilt over the outcome must have been enormous, then; no wonder he worked so hard to displace it all onto that, that, that Grindelwald. Which makes me want to hug him for that careful admission that “it could have been any of us.” Like his acknowledgement that “the bastards” he’s hated lifelong for “destroying” his sister were actually frightened fellow children. It seems that Aberforth’s reaction to the secrecy and lies in which he was raised is to need to tell the truth. Even when it contradicts the story he’s bent his whole soul on believing.)

*

The Death Eaters didn’t know why Aberforth could never join them.

But Albus did.

Except, this time, Albus himself was resisting the newest Dark Lord.

The second time around was different. This time, Albus didn’t need his younger brother to tell him not to fall for the handsome boy’s flim-flam about sacrificing wizards and witches now to secure a future in which no magic-user would need to hide, nor any Muggle ever dare harm or cross them.

The second time around, Albus didn’t need a death to keep him from following a brilliant, charismatic magic worshipper who wanted sacrifices to bring about a new world order.


So… Maybe Albus’s changes really were more than cosmetic. Maybe he had learned to respect the real needs of real people, and to put them ahead of his imagined Greater Good. Maybe that was really why he’d dueled Grindelwald in the end.

Because he’d actually learned not to believe Gellert’s promises that sacrificing real people now would bring about that Greater Good.


So Aberforth passed information to Albus on the sly. And watched his brother.


Eventually, he even joined the Order, and formalized his role as one of Albus’s “useful spies.”

The Death Eaters knew of his blood tie to Albus, but Aberforth convincingly, and quite truthfully, told them he’d been on the outs with his brother since he was a boy. And that what the Death Eaterss proposed to do to Muggles met with Ab’s full approval.

However big fools he thought these Death Eaters for imagining that their Dark Lord wouldn’t batten on them first and foremost.

Gellert had claimed to want domination over Muggles. What he’d accomplished was terror in the Wizarding World, and laying waste to the better part of two generations of magical folk in the countries where he’d achieved power.

And the first, the very first, casualty of his campaign for magical rights had been Aberforth’s baby sister.

Aberforth fully expected the newest Dark Lord to follow the same pattern.

The nice thing about being a cynic is being able, when the worst happens, to pat yourself on your back and congratulate yourself on your foresight.

History did indeed repeat itself. The biggest victims of You-Know-Who’s campaign to assume power were his own supporters, followed in almost equal measure by the witches and wizards most prominently arrayed in active opposition.

No big surprise to Aberforth.

It probably didn’t even come as a surprise to Ab that his older brother had, once more, escaped unscathed the death and ruin that had come to so many of his followers, as to Voldemort’s.

Albus was like that. Throw him in a midden, he strolls away smelling of Amortencia.

But what probably did come as a shock to Aberforth—a big one—was one of Albus’s actions immediately following the Dark Lord’s fall.

At least, if Aberforth had ever trusted, however warily, in Albus’s reformation.

(Rather than reluctantly bringing the information he’d gleaned as barman of the Hog’s Head on DE movements to his brother solely in default of any better contact.)

The fact that Aberforth had done such a damned-fool thing as to let himself be photographed among the members of his brother’s little vigilante army…. Well. Either a rush of fraternal feeling had overpowered Aberforth’s judgment, or he’d done it as a sop to his other set of contacts. In which case Peter was not the only person reporting formally to the Death Eaters on the exact composition of the Order.

And I don’t, myself, quite see that. I don’t see Aberforth in an exact reprise of Severus’s role at a lower level, as an acknowledged double (triple, quadruple) agent. He seems to have fought too hard to stay neutral—dodgy, but neutral. He never took the Dark Mark, however much he made those who had them feel welcome under his roof.

And that he fought shy of the Ministry… Well, Percival’s experiences with the Ministry may have led his younger son to believe the law intrinsically unjust, anyhow. Who’d want to be law-abiding, when the law sent a good man to Azkaban only for defending his little daughter?

(What the hell was Albus up to, anyhow, allowing that picture to be taken—allowing ANY large-scale gathering of the Order—when he already knew, or suspected, that he had a traitor in those ranks?)

So I tend, myself, to read Aberforth as having, for a time, believed that his big brother had indeed seen the light, the error of his overly-bright ways. That Aberforth, for a time, not only worked actively against the newest Dark Lord, but trusted his brother’s leadership in that cause.

Even trusted Albus, to a limited extent. Imagined that Mr. Bright might actually have learned his lesson from Gellert.



A trust which came crashing down when Albus gave Harry to the Dursleys.


No one knew better than the Dumbledore brothers how much damage might be done to a vulnerable magical child by hateful, terrified Muggles.

No one.


And Albus consigned a BABY to that fate.


Sacrificed a child.

To the Greater Good.

Again.


*

You did WHAT, Albus?


*

So what could Albus do, at that point?

He HAD to shut up his brother, to discredit him entirely. It was obligatory. What Albus had done, had had to be done. Albus could not afford questions.

And Aberforth, that known Muggle-hater and consorter with Death Eaters, was in a very precarious position, had he ever stopped to realize that before furiously confronting his brother.

And all Albus had to do, really, was just … just step back a little.

Only that.


*

Remember Albus’s defense of Severus Snape, ending with that ringing endorsement? “I have given evidence already on this matter. Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort’s downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk. He is now no more a Death Eater than I am.”


What did Albus say in his brother’s defense?

Did he hurry to the Ministry the moment Aberforth was detained on suspicion of Death Eater sympathies and proudly proclaim:

“Unhand my brother, sirrahs! Aberforth is indeed a Muggle-hater, and he indeed led the Death Eaters to believe him sympathetic to their goals. However, he never joined them in reality. Instead, and at great personal risk, he has been my spy upon them for over twenty years. My brother has no more ever been a Death Eater than I have.”


Or did Albus say something a little less convincing? And, er, wait a bit, perhaps, before he started saying it?

“My brother is indeed a Muggle-hater, and he therefore naturally found parts of the Death Eater program attractive. But although he let them use his premises freely, I am convinced that he never would have cooperated with them beyond that. In fact, on more than one occasion, I was able to obtain valuable information about their movements from him.”

“Well, erm, yes. Yes, upon persuasion. Still, I am fully assured that my brother never actually joined Lord Voldemort’s followers. He’s far too… independent a soul to be a good follower, as the Ministry knows.”

“Look, he’s a barman. All he did, really, was welcome paying customers and offer them a discreet place to meet. You don’t plan to prosecute Madam Puddifoot for having setved Evan Rosier cups of tea, do you?”

“Well, yes, I do appreciate the difference. But I assure you that my brother poses no danger to society now—other than, of course, unhygienic conditions for his customers. But if they’re not complaining, why should we? “

“Well, if you indeed think there’s evidence enough that he was a true follower of Lord Voldemort, it’s my own duty to join you in punishing him as such, my brother or not. But our evidence, as I see it, indicates merely that my brother served the Death Eaters Firewhiskey and sympathy, and agreed with some of their goals. Not commendable, not to be encouraged—I’ve made no secret of my differences with him on these matters—but not actually illegal. If you believe it necessary to punish him publicly, don’t do so on the grounds of sympathies that some entirely innocent people also share. Find an actual crime he’s committed, however trivial, and punish him for that. He’ll understand the real reason, and think twice about whose custom he welcomes in future.”

“Actual crime? You have a choice, I should imagine, if you look hard enough, But I should pick one far removed from the real issue of making the Hog’s Head a haven for … well. unsavory sorts. After all, we don’t want actually to dissuade his other customers from going there, do we? So long as they do, the Ministry always knows where to look for them, right?”

“Since you ask, I should recommend investigating his goat. In the past seventy years he’s shown infinitely more regard for those animals than for any human. And his current pet is suspiciously frisky for her age.”

*

“Aberforth, I did what I could, but they all believed me to be upholding you out of fraternal feelings. They believe you to be at least a Death Eater sympathizer, and your anti-Muggle sentiments are too well known to make my protests convincing. You played your part too well there—well, that much hadn’t been a part, had it? And, forgive me, your own… anti-authoritarian attitude doesn’t help you with the Wizengamot. The best I could manage was to get the Wizengamot to agree to prosecute you on a lesser charge, and I think I can get them to accept time served and a fine as your punishment.”

*

“My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practicing inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No, he did not! He held his head high, and went about his business as usual. Of course, I’m not entirely sure he can read, so that might not have been bravery….”


Well, Aberforth would hold his head high if that damn Ministry was really persecuting him for not bowing and truckling to them enough to satisfy them he wasn’t one of those damned fool Death Eaters.

Of course anyone hearing that charge, and no details, would think they knew what kind of “charms” Aberforth must have been practicing. Nudge nudge, wink wink.

When Ab’s crime might have been merely practicing veterinary medicine without a license.

(Note that most governments have laws making it illegal to break government-endorsed monopolies, as well as those outlawing behavior that’s considered self-evidently wrong in that culture. You know, WRONG. Like murder. Or like stealing another man’s property by helping his slaves escape. Or like having sex with a consenting adult of the wrong shape. In the jurisdiction in which I live, gays can legally marry. But not distill liquor, or grow tobacco.)

Only, anyone hearing about the charges, and that the Wizengamot refused to specify them further, would be quite, quite certain about what Aberforth had really done.

Well, not the specifics. One wouldn’t want the specifics, in such a case. Unless one were as big a pervert as the criminal.

And no one, ever, would ever listen to someone convicted (in the court of public opinion) of bestiality about an issue like suitable guardians for a child.

Even if he was right, and scrupulously honest in his accusations.

*

And if Aberforth had always felt Harry to be, like Ariana, another of his brother’s child-victims, that explains why he eventually bought that mirror off Dung and tried to “keep an eye” on Harry, despite never having bought the Kool-Aid drinkers’ “Harry is the best hope we have. Trust him.”


Aberforth didn’t ever choose to protect and help Harry because he expected Harry to save him from big bad Voldemort. Instead he insisted, “The Order of the Phoenix is finished, You’Know-Who’s won, and anyone who’s pretending different’s kidding themselves. … So go abroad, go into hiding, save yourself. Best take these two with you.”


Nor did he protect Harry because he felt driven to honor his brother’s wishes.

“My brother, Albus, wanted a lot of things,” said Aberforth, “and people had a habit of getting hurt while he was carrying out his grand plans. You get away from this school, Potter, and out of the country if you can. Forget my brother and his clever schemes.... you don’t owe him anything.”


Rather sweeping pronouncements, Ab, especially the last. You know this how?


But it’s clear enough now why Aberforth had really been helping these:”unqualified wizard kids.”

Not for self-preservation; and not in deference to his dead brother.


He’d simply wanted the last of his brother’s innocent child-victims, unlike the first, to escape alive.

Comments

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Not saying I agree with everything, but YEAH!!! I have begun to believe that the goat charms probably are a trumped up charge. However, I'm not sure whether it was because the aurors truly thought him a DE and couldn't pin anything else on him or whether it was all done just to make him look more like part of the roundup in the eyes of his 'customers' - all so the DEs might trust him even more when Voldy does return.

But I have to admit that I like the idea of Albus instigating it so that anything Aberforth says is disregarded when it pertains to Harry's situation with the Dursleys. Not sure yet whether I believe it, buty it's a good theory.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

"But I have to admit that I like the idea of Albus instigating it so that anything Aberforth says is disregarded when it pertains to Harry's situation with the Dursleys."
I tend to think that Albus is fond of discrediting his brother as much as possible, really.

Wasn't Aberforth part of the first Order of the Phoenix? I can't help thinking, given his known attitudes towards Albus, that he started a certain amount of dissent in the ranks when the body count started climbing for the ceiling. Hell, in an AU where Aberforth stuck around long enough to hear the Prophecy, he might have been off and running to warn the Potters and Longbottoms about his brother before Albus could properly shoo Trelawney out the door. That would have thrown quite the wrench in the plan, eh? "Mm-hmm, Headmaster, quite a wild tale you've got there. Now, we were just having a lovely chat with your brother, and we'd like to ask you a few questions about how your sister really died. Not that we're saying that we think your little hideway-scheme will end up in a three-way duel that leaves all the witnesses dead or discredited and our son in your loving custody, of course not. But we do have Portkeys to undisclosed locations in Australia ready to go off at a moment's notice."

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. Re-reading what Albus said about his brother in GoF--even if Aberforth WERE an illiterate goat-screwer, casually trashing him like that both to children who've never met him, and to Hagrid who drinks in his bar, is Not Done. It would be barely acceptable if said to Hagrid in confidence, to cheer him up--except Hagrid doesn't do "in confidence." Even if Albus's insinuations--not, note, statements--were absolutely true, he's talking about a man whom he'd grossly wronged, who had corrected Albus's errant moral compass in Albus's youth, and who had risked his life, for years, spying on Tom's followers. Forget family loyalty, even; as someone who'd repeatedly risked his life in Albus's service, Aberforth deserved better.

But that was where the water stuck, wasn't it? Aberforth hadn't risked his life in Albus's service, blindly following his beloved, beneficient, and ever-wise brother. Aberforth risked his life to help defeat the newest Dark Lord, and seemed to have chosen his brother as his conduit to the opposition for lack of a better option.

(The Ministry? It's to laugh.)

Aberforth seemed to have joined the Order as the only game going in town to defeat the newest Dark Lord, but he never believed, as most of Albus's hangers-on did, that the sun shone from Albus's every orifice.

He might have taught the others bad habits. Except Moody said that the photo-op was the only time he met Aberforth, didn't he? (Except why is a spy being introduced to the rest of the Order at all?)

Hmm.... neither did James or Sirius kowtow properly, when you get down to it.

What was it Harry said to Twinkles about Severus? "Haven't you noticed, Professor, how the people Snape hates tend to end up dead?"

As the followers of Dumbledore who express doubts and indulge in independent thought tend to end up dead or discredited.

But of course, Albus has always had reason to make sure his baby brother was discredited, hasn't he? Or "always" since Albus was eighteen. (Note, by the way, that an actual illiterate could not be expected to "complete" his education, even at Hogwarts)

Now that I think about it, who was it that told Aberforth it might as easily have been Ab's own spell as one of Gellert's or Albus's, that had actually killed Ariana? You mean a kid who hadn't passed his OWLs yet was dueling on the same level as two genius Dark Arts prodigies? He was throwing lethal spells about? Boy, Ab's up there with Harry Sue!

I mean, it could have happened. The Trio's Expelliarmus might have killed instead of concussed Severus, if he'd broken his neck or skull (worse) when they smashed him into that wall. A ricocheting spell could simply have knocked Ariana down, and she landed just wrong....

Only Albus seemed to believe, rather strongly, that it was probably his own spell that did it, and that Gellert (who, however, would have been caught with a Cruciatus on his wand) could have attested to that.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

" Forget family loyalty, even; as someone who'd repeatedly risked his life in Albus's service, Aberforth deserved better."
It's rather interesting to note that Mundungus Fletcher got treated better by Albus than Aberforth did.
Mundungus Fletcher.

"Aberforth seemed to have joined the Order as the only game going in town to defeat the newest Dark Lord, but he never believed, as most of Albus's hangers-on did, that the sun shone from Albus's every orifice."
Precisely.

"Except Moody said that the photo-op was the only time he met Aberforth, didn't he? (Except why is a spy being introduced to the rest of the Order at all?)"
To be fair, the Hog's Head seems to be the dealing ground for illegal material in Hogsmeade, given what he says to the Death Eaters in DH. Dark wizards and witches may mistake Aberforth's disinterest in reporting their activities to the law for disinterest in reporting their activities, period. I can't see the young Voldemort hosting his followers at a bar he knew was informing on their activities to Dumbledore, can you? (And he did - as "Lord Voldemort's Request" in HBP confirms.)

"Hmm.... neither did James or Sirius kowtow properly, when you get down to it."
The one notable hole in Albus's manipulation abilities seems to be characters with some sociopathic traits. When you get down to it, he seems to manipulate via a combination of guilt, assurances of glory, and portrayal of himself as the ultimate Good Authority figure. Gellert, Tom, and James and Sirius (and potentially Fred and George, I suspect, if we'd ever seen him paying attention to them) all seemed to have a lackadaisical attitude towards guilt, have a perfectly solid belief in their own greatness thank-you-very-much, and hold active hostility towards authority of any sort.

Harry, in contrast, had a low opinion of his own ability coming out of the Dursleys (though that rather changed over the years) and always thought quite well of authority the moment the winds of the plot swung it around in his favor. Once he had Sirius's death on his conscience, he was Albus's perfect target.

"As the followers of Dumbledore who express doubts and indulge in independent thought tend to end up dead or discredited."
Including his ex-boyfriend. Though, even if you don't share my Grindelwald/Dumbledore shipping loyalties, Gellert seemed to practice a variant of honor-amongst-thieves in DH. Which is more than we can say for Albus.

"But of course, Albus has always had reason to make sure his baby brother was discredited, hasn't he? Or "always" since Albus was eighteen. (Note, by the way, that an actual illiterate could not be expected to "complete" his education, even at Hogwarts)"
No, he always has. Albus was ascending the ranks from a young age, and he would therefore have no interest in his younger brother, who never seems to have liked him much, spreading his own opinion of Albus. Remember, Elphias Doge innocently confessed that NO ONE seems to ever count Aberforth.

I wonder as to the Hogwarts point, actually - we're to believe that Crabbe and Goyle are complete idiots (though joke's on Harry for the former - Crabbe was just a Dark Arts savant never allowed to show his true abilities under the pre-DE Ministry), yet we're never given any indication that it should impair their scholastic career. So it may be that Hogwarts makes allowances for students with impaired understanding of the theoretical concepts (as caused by, say, inability to read) or poor scores on written examinations (as caused by, say, inability to write) by permitting them to make up their deficient scores on practical examinations. Or that there is no such thing as "failing out of Hogwarts".

I have to go somewhere, so I'll respond to other points later. I have a rather strange theory on the Duel, so I'd love to discuss it, but alas, have to be elsewhere right now...

[oryx_leucoryx]

Re: Crabbe and Goyle: They were taking remedial DADA in 6th year because they had failed their OWL. We know the twins had 3 OWLs each, apparently in DADA, Transfiguration and Charms (based on the classes they seem to be attending in OOTP), and those 3 are the subjects that require regular wand use. So my understanding is that those (or a subset of them) are the classes one needs to get qualified at in order to become allowed to use a wand outside school when one comes of age. (And the twins only bothered making an effort with those 3 exams for this reason.)

Hmm. Probably not all 3 subjects were required because Sally-Ann Perks did not take the Charms exam.

Then there was Slytherin Quidditch Captain Marcus Flint, who due to authorial inattention ended up repeating one of his NEWT-level years. I'm guessing he wanted to improve a grade because the particular subject was required for his career path, whatever that was.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

I remembered Crabbe and Goyle, but I took the important part as their being able to advance to sixth-year. Draco also implies that they blew off their Defense OWLs because they figured they wouldn't be needing any Defense, so it's possible they intentionally goofed off on their tests and got knocked for it.

"Hmm. Probably not all 3 subjects were required because Sally-Ann Perks did not take the Charms exam."
We also know from McGonagall that Augusta Longbottom failed her Charms OWL. Since she was being Gryffindor-vehement and didn't add "and had to get held back for a year as a result!", we may presume that it's not necessary to pass Charms. It may vary based on how many OWLs one takes in core areas - i.e. you only have to pass a given number.

"I'm guessing he wanted to improve a grade because the particular subject was required for his career path, whatever that was. "
He's apparently stated in interview-canon (bleh!) to have outright failed his exams.

[oryx_leucoryx]

We don't know if Crabbe and Goyle count as 6th year students. The only class they are mentioned in by name of the classes Harry attends is the Apparition class. For all we know whatever other classes they are taking that year was with the 5th years. Anyway, if DADA was so unimportant to them that they blew it off the previous year why did they even bother with the remedial class in 6th? There must have been some serious consequence to them. So I think either they were in danger of losing their wand (well, permission to use it) or their mothers told them that with their fathers' arrest they need to shape up and give the appearance of being on the straight and narrow.

It may vary based on how many OWLs one takes in core areas - i.e. you only have to pass a given number.

As I said, it makes sense that it isn't just the number of classes. There are only 3 classes that are about learning to control one's wand. I can't imagine being allowed to use a wand outside school after failing all 3.

He's apparently stated in interview-canon (bleh!) to have outright failed his exams.

Yes, but those were his NEWTs, not his OWLs, because the first time we meet him he is introduced as a 6th year student, and he stayed for that and 2 additional years. He had basic qualifications, he just wanted to have advanced ones as well, and was having trouble there. That's more than Charlie or the twins did.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

School mandate. It wouldn't have to be 'serious consequence' - they were still seemingly allied with Draco at that point, and he may have told them to shape up and pretend to be obedient students until he killed Dumbledore and left Hogwarts.
The main serious consequence was probably an inability to continue their studies at Hogwarts if they didn't, in other words.
(I've wondered what Lucius Malfoy's connection to the Crabbe and Goyle family is. Patron-client relationship, in the old Roman style? Crabbe Jr. seemed quite willing to abandon Draco when and only when he was convinced the Malfoy had permanently fallen out of favor, so it doesn't come off as a friendship, and he's treated them with contempt for years anyway. Perhaps they were literally bound by bonds of honor, which Crabbe only felt could be safely violated if he brought Potter to Voldemort as a homecoming present?)

"That's more than Charlie or the twins did."
Charlie completed a full seven-year term at Hogwarts, I thought. Is there a source that says otherwise? (Sorry, the Wizarding school system in the seventh-year is quite unclear to me. Goodness knows things got weird enough when young!Albus appeared with all these records and prizes that were never mentioned previously in canon.)

[oryx_leucoryx]

The main serious consequence was probably an inability to continue their studies at Hogwarts if they didn't, in other words.
But why care about staying at Hogwarts?

Re: Charlie: The timeline doesn't work. Because Ron already saw burns on his hands before PS. Also, there are all those Quidditch games the Gryffindor team didn't win after Charlie left. The Lexicon timeline has Charlie attending Hogwarts from 1984. His 7th year would be the year just before Harry and Ron's first. This leaves him no time to get his hands burned and for the Gryffindor team, under Oliver Wood as captain (and we know it was him, not Charlie who was captain the previous year) to lose games.

In my timeline I have Bill and Charlie one year younger than the Lexicon has them (because of Bill's statement about it being 5 years since he was at Hogwarts last in June 1995 and because of Ginny saying she wanted to go to Hogwarts ever since Bill went), so Charlie would have had to leave after his 5th year. But even if we go with the Lexicon timeline, Charlie couldn't have done his 7th year at Hogwarts.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

"Now that I think about it, who was it that told Aberforth it might as easily have been Ab's own spell as one of Gellert's or Albus's, that had actually killed Ariana? You mean a kid who hadn't passed his OWLs yet was dueling on the same level as two genius Dark Arts prodigies? He was throwing lethal spells about? Boy, Ab's up there with Harry Sue!"
We'll recall that Aberforth tended to view Ariana as a sweet, scared girl who just so happened to have the occasional homicidal rage. He may have had delusions about her durability or lack thereof. As such, he might have thought that a nonfatal spell could have overloaded her system.

I also think Aberforth isn't rational about what happened in the duel, and that he places an irrational weight on his own ability to have killed Ariana precisely because he fears that possibility so much. If he was thinking straight about it, he probably would realize that it was... unlikely that any of his spells could have killed her.

My recreation of the roles in the Duel is as follows:
Gellert: After Gallantly Cruciating(TM) that wretched Aberforth for metaphorically spitting on his boyfriend's honor, is trying to kill or incapacitate Aberforth for causing so much bloody trouble. It was just a Prank, honest, James Albus.
Albus: Is trying to shield Aberforth from Gellert's attacks until he can incapacitate Gellert.
Aberforth: Is trying to (metaphorically) hex Gellert's balls off.

The dueling roles imply that Gellert was actually a better duelist than Albus, since he was holding off Albus-and-sidekick at the same time. I suppose we can take the stance that Albus was impaired by defending two duelists rather than just himself, but it is rather suspicious that we're expected to believe that Albus is the better fighter.

"I mean, it could have happened. The Trio's Expelliarmus might have killed instead of concussed Severus, if he'd broken his neck or skull (worse) when they smashed him into that wall. A ricocheting spell could simply have knocked Ariana down, and she landed just wrong.... "
I tend to believe, based upon the evidence from Neville's childhood, that unconscious magic acts as a natural defense against one-off impacts. Which is probably why nobody sees anything wrong with letting ten-pound iron balls loose on an airspace filled with Quidditch players with ages ranging down to twelve-years-old - it's presumed that their magic will cushion the blow enough to render them incapacitating but not fatal. So I tend to believe that Severus would have survived that no matter what.

But on the subject of accidental magic, one would THINK it would be highly implausible for Ariana to get taken down by a spell. Her condition apparently left her with enough magic to blow up the house, in Aberforth's words - so a terrified, hypersensitive girl with enormous, uncontrolled magical power will... just stand there like a piece of furniture when one of those destructive balls of light comes shooting towards her? Even though accidental magic is activated by powerful emotion, an imminent threat, or both?

Bluntly, I think the evidence that nobody shot anything towards Ariana is that none of them had to be scraped off the ceiling, walls, and floor and buried in a "coffin" the size of a shoebox. I'm not saying she would have survived whatever spell came at her, but she would have taken someone with her. Or, at least, she would have done catastrophic damage to the house with her last flare of magic. Look how much damage Voldemort did to the Potter home upon his initial disintegration! And yet there's no mention of any damage whatsoever, which means it didn't occur. Because that sure as blazes would have gotten mentioned.

(My pet theory is that Ariana was, in fact, a suicide. I need to rewrite my old post on that theory before I can link to it, alas, but it basically holds that the Cave torture-potion did not induce a hallucination, but a reenactment. Perhaps using the reanimated bodies of the dead as a secondary defense mechanism was Riddle's personal joke...)

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure whether I believe it, either. Frankly, the biggest argument I see against it is Dumbledore would be OOC competent.

Only, the problem is (from a Watsonian perspective), your point on the timing is spot-on. WTH had time to worry about animal abuse (which anyhow is much more tolerated in the WW than in our own--imagine a PETA activisit at Hogwarts!) while they were still rounding up DE's?

In fact, it actually gets worse, because the WW had two "witch-hunts"--one immediately after Tom's discorporation, and one when the Lestranges tortured the Longbottoms--just when everyone had started to feel safe again.

Now, okay, people are weird about sex and alleged sexual perversions. So if Aberforth really were caught in flagrante in bestiality, maybe they would shunt aside the boring DE trials to bring him up on those more titillating charges.

Only, if so, can you imagine the outraged community letting him keep goats again? Harry noticed the smell of goats at the DA meeting in the Hog's Head, 13 years later. EVen given Aberforth's standards of cleaning, that's a long time for a scent to linger.

Moreover, his Patronus is a goat. Still. And Aberforth tells us that one of the acitivities Ariana had loved when she was able was to help her favoritie brother feeds their goats.

If goats were associated with sexual depravity and deserved public infamy in his mind, could that still be his Patronus, and would he ever mention goats and his sacred little sister in the same breath?

And finally, the fact remains that Dumbledore got the record expunged that Severus had been AN ACTUAL DEATH EATER. But his heroic efforts spying made the authorities wipe the record--so thoroughly that the Minister for Magic had to see Snape's Dark Mark to learn the truth.

Aberforth was a member of the Order, and had been spying on Death Eaters a decade (at least!) longer than Snape. What kind of crime would not have been forgiven him, in the heady aftermath of You-Know-Who's defeat?

If his heroic efforts to defeat Lord Voldemort had been fully known.

And the only one who knew them, and could either trumpet or downplay them, was his brother.

[oryx_leucoryx]

How many people at the Ministry knew about Severus' efforts? Moody must have learned at some point that Severus was the source of the tips Albus was giving him, but in the court scene he is skeptical. Or is it that Albus chose to trumpet Severus' contribution because he was certain enough Severus didn't need a stint in Azkaban to keep him from causing trouble to Albus?

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Two hundred, if we go by Karkaroff's heairing, when Crouch said Snape had already been cleared by "this council."

Moody could be skeptical about Snape's reformation without disbelieving that Snape had brought information to Dumbledore. Snape might have done it as an insurance policy in case the wrong side won, or he might have been a double agent releasing selected information with Voldemort's blessing to win trust, and secretly reporting back what Dumbledore let slip in turn. There HAD been a leak in the Order, after all. And Snape DID win a position at Hogwarts.

What I want to know is why none of the two hundred people ever gossiped about Severus having been a DE. I guess a closed hearing in the WW is REALLY closed, huh? Must be some variant on the Fidelius or Unbreakable Vow.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Is there any precedent for somebody being tried by a small subset of that council, or any reason to believe that "this council" does not always mean the same council? Because, indeed, that sounds weird indeed. Unless Dumbledore phrased it differently. What's the exact wording regarding Dumbledore's testimony about Snape? Because I wonder if he could have used a modified variant of the Imperius excuse. People don't seem to gossip about the "Imperius victims" too much... except for Ron, whose father was an Auror, and one specifically hostile to Lucius Malfoy at that. It may have been seen as extremely crude victim-blaming in public to slander those poor, poor people for those horrible things the Dark Lord made them do against their will.

Alternatively, everyone already knew who was going to gossip, antisocial young Harry just didn't talk to the right people, and everyone assumed that somebody who hated Snape so much must have known. The canon text really isn't clear on these things.

"Must be some variant on the Fidelius or Unbreakable Vow."
Then how can Harry see it in the Pensieve? Is that a viable way to circumvent Unbreakable Vows regarding information? It would be admittedly hilarious if Dumbledore dropped dead walking down the hallway because Harry stuck his head in the wrong Pensieve, but that didn't happen.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hmm, Ron's father was not an Auror, just a lowly bureaucrat. Hagrid did his own bit of gossiping about Imperius victims.

Alternatively, everyone already knew who was going to gossip, antisocial young Harry just didn't talk to the right people, and everyone assumed that somebody who hated Snape so much must have known. The canon text really isn't clear on these things.

If there was any gossip about any evil deeds of Severus, the twins would have known and told Harry.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Ah, he wasn't an Auror? My mistake - I picked up fanon-contamination regarding Ministry Order members mainly being Aurors.

"Hagrid did his own bit of gossiping about Imperius victims."
He mentioned them, yes, but not in the 'they're fakers' way:
People who was on his side came back ter ours. Some of 'em came outta kinda trances. Don' reckon they could've done if he was comin' back.
We now know "kinda trances" translates to "Imperius Curse", so he seems to assume all claiming the Imperius Curse were under genuine Imperius trances induced by Voldemort himself. I wouldn't count that as "gossip" - if anything, he errs here on the side of believing both the victims and the "victims".

Since we now know even Harry can cast a successful Imperius, and it's hardly a power exclusive to the Dark Lord (as opposed to its early portrayal), I wonder, in retrospect, if anyone was Imperiused into covering for Death Eaters's crimes and going to Azkaban. But that belongs on the Imperius meta post.

"If there was any gossip about any evil deeds of Severus, the twins would have known and told Harry. "
Mm - actually, modify that to they-would-have-mentioned-it-at-home-and-Ron-would-have-told-Harry. Point stands, though. Thanks for pointing that out.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Except that he tells Harry outright that Draco's father (bad blood, you know, that family) was lying about that. He's right, of course, but he couldn't have known that. Which makes it prejudice-fueled gossip.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Actually, now that I think about it Hagrid's the source of Harry's attitude in 7 Potters:

"Ooh, that's Stan Shunpike! He sucked up to me once, so he can't be Evul. The dastards must have Imperiused him to try to kill me, poor chap. Expelliarmus!"

Random stranger--knocks him off his broom with a stunner and kills him.

Snape was there?! I always knew how Evul he was, and now you see how right I was! (To that Dumbledore in the sky.)

But that's Hagrid in book one. There were real Imperius victims, and then there were the fakers like Malfoy. And he could tell which was which, by the infallible test of whether he liked them/whether they'd ever sucked up to Dumbledore.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Hmm, sorry, hadn't gotten to that point in my review of PS/SS yet. My apologies. I thought it was only Ron.

"I've heard of his family," said Ron darkly. "They were some of the first to come back to our side after You-Know-Who disappeared. Said they'd been bewitched. My dad doesn't believe it. He says Malfoy's father didn't need an excuse to go over to the Dark Side." He turned to Hermione. "Can we help you with something?"

[oryx_leucoryx]

Yes, but the council heard about Severus' deeds and misdeeds from Albus. What I really want to know is whether anyone learned of Severus' spying independent from Albus. Otherwise, we have Albus as the sole source of information for both Severus and Aberforth, and Albus makes opposite choices in those two cases. I suppose Severus' guilt was enough to keep him in his place wrt Albus.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

"Otherwise, we have Albus as the sole source of information for both Severus and Aberforth, and Albus makes opposite choices in those two cases. I suppose Severus' guilt was enough to keep him in his place wrt Albus. "
Yeah, precisely. And Severus says in The Prince's Tale that he honestly thought Albus's intent was to keep Harry safe "for Lily", so he likely thought allying with Albus was the lesser of two evils on the matter of keeping Harry alive.

To be fair to Severus, Aberforth (who knew Albus better) seems to have thought the same of Albus taking care of Ariana during the few weeks before Gellert showed up and Albus ran off to play World Conquest. Apparently Albus impersonates a good caretaker rather well when people are watching.

It helps that Albus is plainly adept at playing Severus off against Harry and vice versa to ensure that both remain as hostile to each other as possible, both assume each other's poor decisions are in spite of Albus rather than because of him, and both think of him as the kindly moderator. That wasn't possible in the case of Ariana and Aberforth.

One wonders if half the reason why Albus doesn't like Aberforth is that Aberforth had someone else with whom to cross-reference his brother's behavior, so that the usual twinkle-eyed gaslighting was impossible. It's a possibility that he seems to have taken active steps to prevent ever after.

Huh. That's bloody funny. I hadn't even thought of the "coincidence" until this discussion, but it occurs to me that Albus chose his killer as exactly the man who would be in the best position to cross-reference with Harry with Albus no longer along the living. Could it be that he pushed Severus into killing him precisely so that Harry would be utterly unwilling to listen to anything Severus had to say? And Albus set up such a picturesque murder scene, too... the frail, broken old man lying prone against a wall as he pleas with his hateful killer...

Hm. So many HP scenes come off disturbingly differently if one takes the view that their being set-up OOU to cater to JKR's love for Romantic melodrama is reflected IU by their being set-up to cater to a master manipulator's love for Romantic melodrama.
(Capitalization used to indicate I'm referring to melodrama in the style of the Romantic movement, not to certain bloated plotlines in HBP. :P)

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Goodness. Your mind is darker than mine. That goes disturbingly well with what I'd speculated about Albus and the Suicide Stone.

It goes deeper than just cross-referencing with Harry, too.

Aberforth had been in a position to discredit Albus for his role in Ariana's death and his association with Gellert. But even before his arrest, Aberforth had been just the barman of the WW's most disreputable pub. Who'd listen to him?

How did that become his choice of career?

Bathilda had been in position to tell funny stories about Albus. And didn't, apparently. In fact don't the Hogwarts history classes--and texts-- sort of ignore the twentieth centurty?

She didn't talk--until the Potters moved in under Albus's supposed protection. When she broke what was apparently a decades-long silence. Lily didn't believe the story that Dumbledore had been friends with Grindelwald. James... decided that Sirius would be a better Secret-keeper, however hard the head of the Order pressed him to reconsider.

And they both ended up dead, and Sirius in prison without a trial

And Bathilda returned to silence, until Rita came by with a bottle of Veritaserum. Possibly after Albus's death.

And Snape... Snape would have been in position to testify to exactly what his master had ordered him to do as a doulble agent. And not to do.


Severus said, "Lately, only those I could not save."

Albus said, "Be sure to act your part convincingly."

Some of what Severus could have said might have smudged St. Albus's image. If he'd been in any position to be believed.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

"I'm not sure whether I believe it, either. Frankly, the biggest argument I see against it is Dumbledore would be OOC competent."
As somebody who loathes canon!Dumbledore, I need to point out that canon!Dumbledore is EXTREMELY competent at slandering his enemies, manipulating the suggestible, and puffing himself up as the Virtuous One under any circumstance.

"Only, if so, can you imagine the outraged community letting him keep goats again?"
Actually, yes, because the WW is notoriously incompetent at enforcing its sentences in any way other than Azkaban.

" But his heroic efforts spying made the authorities wipe the record--so thoroughly that the Minister for Magic had to see Snape's Dark Mark to learn the truth."
To be fair, we're supposed to believe Fudge was a raging dunce who was advised by Dumbledore. It may simply have been that Dumbledore was feeding him a solid line about good ol' Severus never really having been a Death Eater, not in his heart, and he was knocked for a loop by the proof that Severus not only was Marked as a Death Eater - not that it meant much, since dear Lucius claimed to have gotten his under the Imperius - but acknowledged it as a mark of his link to the Dark Lord.

"If his heroic efforts to defeat Lord Voldemort had been fully known.

And the only one who knew them, and could either trumpet or downplay them, was his brother. "
Aah... you're accidentally giving Albus too much credit. Other survivors likely knew Aberforth had made contributions. The only one who could tell them to hold their silence... was his brother.

[Edited because LJ wouldn't give me the right icon.]

[oryx_leucoryx]

He’d simply wanted the last of his brother’s innocent child-victims, unlike the first, to escape alive.

Which is why he has to be in Severus' Allliance.

Thanks for pointing out how much moral complexity is hinted at in the few lines we get about Aberforth.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Ha, yes, he is a natural! And he's suitable unlikely.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Also, now that you've shown that Sirius was initially motivated by protection of Harry, and that it took Albus' meddling to set him on the path of revenge, perhaps he should be in the Alliance as well. Nothing less likely than a Severus-Sirius cooperation.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

I think either kbinnz or Arsinoe de Blassenville did that--had Severus break the mutt out of Azkaban in order to set him the task of avenging Harry's treatment by the Dursleys. Figured he'd put his personal feelings aside and pick the best man for the job of tormenting someone.....

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, your Severus doesn't want to alienate Petunia. I'm thinking he just might find out the truth if he starts investigating how the twins knew to ambush the Slytherin first years and catches the map. And eventually sees Peter's name on it.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

But he'd have to catch it while they were using it, yes? Remember, the map has enough sentience to specifically insult Snape. If they could shut it off as soon as they saw him, he'd have to have something over them that he didn't have in canon. Or an inkling that it could show something abnormal...

If it's intended for use in a fanfiction, I'd recommend first-year, when Snape would likely be aiming to incriminate Quirrel whether Albus liked it or not. Remind me - wasn't the Map still in Filch's possession at that point? Perhaps he could go sifting through Filch's discarded items to see if student ingenuity had devised anything useful in Hogwarts-bound traps... I would think "LORD VOLDEMORT" showing up on the map would be rather damning.

Though, technically, it might come up with "Tom Riddle". Has anyone figured out whether the Riddle name would mean anything to Snape, or whether he was only aware of the Voldemort title?

[oryx_leucoryx]

He can Legilimens them. Terri's Severus might be willing to break the law and outright Veritaserum them, if he can get away with it.

IIRC the twins had the map since their very first year. I don't think the map says Lord Voldemort, I'm pretty sure it shows Tom Riddle, and the twins think it is the name of some stinking familiar Quirrell is carrying around. The Severus in Terri's fic already knows about the Dark Lord's true name. I'm sure the canon one did not.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Why does Terri's Severus need to bother? HBP made it clear that Severus yanked the truth about the HBP-tome right out of Harry's mind when it was at the surface, so he could do the same to the Twins if he caught them with the Map. I just didn't think he'd be willing to resort to that until he knew there was an active threat (as he did after Harry whipped out Sectumsempra).

Heck, do Legilimenses actually need Veritaserum? An untrained pre-Hogwarts Tom Riddle could apparently get an equivalent effect with his voice alone. Veritaserum may be only necessary under circumstances when an audience needs to hear the information "from the horse's mouth" rather than through the filter of the Legilimens. (With good reason. The only known Legilimenses are Albus, Severus, Voldemort, (implied) Aberforth, and (possibly) Slughorn. Albus is, well, Albus, Voldemort is, well, Voldemort, Slughorn is self-serving, Aberforth, good qualities aside, runs a free zone for illegal activities, and Severus, good qualities also aside, has links to both a terrorist organization and a militant cult engaging in turf wars with said terrorist organization. If I was in law enforcement, having any of the five of them acting as a key witness on an important case would scare the shit out of me.)

"IIRC the twins had the map since their very first year."
In that case, it has to say Tom Riddle. Oh, how that amuses me. (And you're right - I looked it up.)

"and the twins think it is the name of some stinking familiar Quirrell is carrying around."
I think, incidentally, that it was a terrible decision for JKR to have nonhumans show up on that map. It may have been crucial for POA's plot, but that leaves some painful plot holes. I mean, fandom jokes about 'some boy named Peter is in Ronniekins's bed' aside, the twins can clearly observe that Ron isn't hanging around someone named Peter full-time. All it takes is one tease about 'You gave Scabbers a full name, Ron?', and that entire plot falls apart. She could have pulled off the POA plot equally well if the name had shifted to "Wormtail" whenever Peter was in Animagus form, since Remus would know that name and the twins could have easily shrugged that off as Ron deciding to rename his rat.

" I'm sure the canon one did not. "
The funny thing is that, given his suspicion of Quirrel, Severus doesn't need to know that's the Dark Lord's true name. All he needs to do is observe for himself that Quirrel's not hanging around a student named Riddle full time, and either investigate the name himself amongst Dark wizards and witches (Tom Riddle's name would still be associated with Voldemort amongst his first group of followers, if they didn't all meet mysteriously unfortunate ends), or shove it under Dumbledore's nose and carefully watch his reaction.

Funnily enough, the latter would force Dumbledore into a corner. If any incontrovertible evidence came up later that he was willingly concealing Voldemort's activities at Hogwarts, rather than just happening to think it was a random Dark wizard, my my my would he be in trouble. Even if it never reached the courts or anyone other than Severus, Severus would see the 'we're protecting Harry' line for the B.S. it was, and Albus would suddenly have an ally who knew far too much become an enemy.

Assuming he didn't want to find out what would have happened if Aberforth had thought with his brains rather than his fists, he would wind up having to confess, walk off to beat the tar out of Quirrel (with Severus supervising him all the way), and have his entire grandiose scheme wrecked for the year. Assuming Voldemort's very good at running away, it wouldn't mean an end to the plot, but it would mean that Harry wouldn't get his first dose of Dumbledore's personal grooming, and would possibly lead to him giving a lot of thought to Snape if he learned that Snape's cruel seizure of the twins' favorite toy actually led to the foiling of Voldemort's scheme for revival.

...Hmm, need to write that...

[oryx_leucoryx]

Terri's fic is a Severus-adopts-Harry fic. And in contrast with others of this sub-genre, Severus is acting behind Albus' back, having lost trust in Albus upon finding out about Harry's upbringing. Harry is in Slytherin, so the younger Weasleys think he is Seriously Dark Wizard. Ron is avoiding him and the twins have pranked him, together with the other Slytherin first-years, once so far. If they keep at it Severus will want to do something about it.

Heck, do Legilimenses actually need Veritaserum?

Severus says Legilimency isn't the same as mind-reading. Will it reveal the exact wording of the pass-phrase to activate the Map? It can bring up a memory to the surface, but for all we know, without pulling the memory out with a wand (as Albus must have done with Morfin) the memory may have been visual only. Severus may have recognized his Potions book visually from what he saw in Harry's mind. So either Veritaserum or pulling out a memory of the twins using the Map, in either case, something the twins will be aware of, something in need of cover-up.

Legilimenses: I think Moody (the real one) had at least basic skill at this, because in GOF Severus is avoiding 'Moody''s eyes. Maybe other Aurors too, we don't know. But their skill may have been just basic level.

Re: Scabbers: The twins may have decided some wizard owned him before Percy (who owned him before Ron), and that wizard gave him a full name. There is a cat named Mrs Norris at Hogwarts, after all. Or even if they thought Percy gave Scabbers a full name, they decided keeping their ownership of the Map secret was worth more than a whole new way of making fun of Percy.

Funnily enough, the latter would force Dumbledore into a corner. If any incontrovertible evidence came up later that he was willingly concealing Voldemort's activities at Hogwarts, rather than just happening to think it was a random Dark wizard, my my my would he be in trouble. Even if it never reached the courts or anyone other than Severus, Severus would see the 'we're protecting Harry' line for the B.S. it was, and Albus would suddenly have an ally who knew far too much become an enemy.

Terri already had a fic where that plot point turns up (a twist on COS where instead of going to Lockhart's office Harry and Ron are found by Minerva and the rest where they were hiding in the closet, so instead of the boys taking Lockhart with them to the Chamber the teachers worked out a rescue plan). When Albus finds out he Obliviates the POV character (Filius). It was left to the reader's imagination if Severus was Obliviated too.

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

That sounds extremely interesting.
I can't believe I haven't seen those fics before. Can you give me the url or just their names?
When I have the time I'd love to read them.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Regretfully I can't post links here. Just read Terri's LJ, full of Severus deliciousness. The current WIP is called Unlikely Alliance, which is a sequel to the much shorter Too Much There. The COS-AU is named Hunter's Hunters.

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

Found and bookmarked them!
Thank you.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

"It was left to the reader's imagination if Severus was Obliviated too."
Might be a tad difficult to successfully Obliviate an Occlumens. Again, I apologize if that was implied to be previously possible, but the well-ordered mind with training in successful concealment might go into such a meeting ready to let a false image be modified while the true memory was hidden deeper down. Yes, Slughorn's false memory got detected, but didn't Dumbledore imply that was a blatant rush-job on Slughorn's part?

"[...] Will it reveal the exact wording of the pass-phrase to activate the Map? "
Good point to the part before that... perhaps Severus could pull the old "I didn't know until you told me" trap by heavily implying he knows all?
'-not to mention that stupid, puerile passphrase of yours -'
'"Mischief Managed" isn't stupid!'
'Well, thank you, Messrs. Weasley and Weasley. You may meditate on the virtues of suppression of impulsivity, particularly of the verbal kind, in detention.'

"Re: Scabbers: [...]"
Ah, good point. Blast.

[attilathepbnun.livejournal.com]

*waves hand timidly*Hi, I'm new ...
About Aberforth and Ariana .... I've always wondered(rather uneasily) about Aberforth's desscription of her initial trauma. Wouldn't it have been more natural for two muggle boys, frightened by magic, to run away from the source of that magic, rather than attack it? And if this all happened in their backyard, how is it that none of Ariana's family noticed the small girl being tortured? How was she, in her own backyard, tortured so badly as to be permanently damaged, without her family noticing and stopping it?
I've always wondered if what actually happened was Ariana somehow got out of her yard before being found by the muggle boys --- which would explain how they had the time to hurt her .... and if their 'torture' of her involved rape. Being violently raped at the tender age of six would account for her lifelong damage ... especially if, in an attempt to help her, one of her parents tried to Obliviate her memory of the attack and accidentally caused her further mental/magical damage. And if Percival, in grief-stricken revenge, violently castrated the muggle perpetrators ....
This would explain why no one ever describes in more detail what happened to Ariana or what Percival did to her attackers. It would also explain both Aberforth's approval of his father's actions and dislike of muggles. It would also explain why even decades later Aberforth is reluctant to give details, and instead tells Harry & Co. a 'sanitised' version of events.
By the way, I've always doubted Aberforth's illiteracy. How could an uneducated illiterate sling spells on a level equal with two magical geniuses? Albus was simply defaming his brother with that crack. Aberforth might not have been as avid a reader as Albus, but he could read, and has to be as intelligent and almost as powerful as his brother(perhaps even more intelligent; he stopped his formal education early to care for Ariana, but was still able to put up a respectable opposition to Albus and Gellert .....)

Please pardon me if these are subjects that have already been discussed ....

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

"two muggle boys"
Three. *nitpick*

"How was she, in her own backyard, tortured so badly as to be permanently damaged, without her family noticing and stopping it?"
I presume her parents weren't looking out the window... or somesuch.

"even decades later Aberforth is reluctant to give details"
An honest question - Would most readers expect him to explain to Harry exactly where they broke one arm and kicked her in the head three times and knocked out four teeth? I presumed he didn't give details because he just didn't enjoy talking about his sister's torture.

"Please pardon me if these are subjects that have already been discussed .... "
*wearily* Actually, based upon the Dumbledore-era fanfiction, I think your interpretation of what happened to Ariana is the most common one. Don't mind me, I just feel permanently confused as to why my point of view (that she 'merely' suffered a bone-breaking beating) isn't more popular, given other accounts of Potterverse insanity. Do most people assume that Bellatrix Lestrange and her cohorts raped the Longbottoms? I'm not being sarcastic there. I don't interact with Longbottom-theory much. Is that a common belief?

Also, according to Aberforth, she went insane because her suppressed magic turned inward. She was merely traumatized enough from the beating that she suppressed her magic for a long enough period of time for insanity to set in.

Sorry if I come off as irritable - it's not aimed at you. I'm nitpicking the insanity detail because it's one that doesn't seem to be noticed much, and it's a highly important distinction from my point of view.

Partly because it makes this line from PS/SS into an absolutely horrific piece of foreshadowing.

"Now, you listen here, boy," [Vernon] snarled, "I accept there's something strange about you, probably nothing a good beating wouldn't have cured -"

[oryx_leucoryx]

Personally, I think if the Muggle boys were the ones who had hurt Ariana they must have hit her on the head and caused brain damage. Or perhaps triggered an epileptic seizure, as swythyv explains it. But perhaps blaming the boys was someone's cover, in part or entirely.

[attilathepbnun.livejournal.com]

Aaah!*nods*
Thank both of you for pointing these things out! As i said, I'm new here, and these things simply hadn't occurred to me *offers guardians_song chocolate in apology for being tiring*

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

Agh! Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were tiring. :( I was just complaining about having unpopular fanon on that front. No offense intended to you. *hands back chocolate with apologies* I hang around in Dumbledore-family-centric fandom, so I tend to have seen a lot of Dumbledore-family theories before. I also have a mildly abrasive typing style, especially when I've had caffeine recently, so I may come off more annoyed than intended. I entered fandom proper through snark communities, and it still shows. :D;;

[attilathepbnun.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, no need to apologise ...*hands chocolate back* and keep the chocolate --- it's almost as much fun to share as to eat

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

*waves hand timidly*Hi, I'm new ...

Attila, how wonderful to see you! :D

Everyone, Attila has been a friend of mine for several years from another fandom. We've collaborated on fanfiction. I invited her over here to read my DH sporking.

Regarding Ariana, I've always believed it was Albus who traumatized her. I think he was either tormenting her for entertainment or experimenting on her, and it went too far and caused permanent damage. He then made up the story about muggle boys attacking her to deflect blame, and either terrorized or, more likely, Confunded her into going along with it. Based on typical psychopathic behavior, including my own experience with my psychopathic older sister, this is perfectly reasonable.

If you look at the Deadly Hollows sporking community, particularly for chapter 28, there's a detailed dissection of this subject. I tried to insert a link, but it got my comment marked as spam and deleted. "Deadly Hollows Live Journal" will find it in a search engine.

Albus's trashing of Aberforth as illiterate is also typical psychopath's slander. My sister has derided me as "brain-damaged" for decades because I'm left-handed. She never calls our left-handed mother or brother brain-damaged. Why? Because they're too spineless to be a threat to her. But like Aberforth, I don't believe the sun shines out of my sister's every orifice, so I'm a threat to her primacy and have to be beaten down.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

Illiterate does not equal stupid.

Would Hogwarts staff recognize a learning disability? If Aberforth was dyslexic he would have done badly in class. It would explain Crabbe not knowing about a diadem but being able to cast powerful dark spells.

I've know some older people who are very smart in a lot of ways, but did horrible in school. One man talked about how when his son was diagnosed with a learning disability he realized he probably had the same problem. But when he went to school there was no help available. He was labeled as a bad kid, he wasn't trying, he was stupid, etc.

Given that Hagrid is allowed to teach, teacher's are not required to have any special training in education.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Illiterate does not equal stupid.

I hope you're not suggesting I said that because I didn't.

Re learning disabilities at Hogwarts, it's extremely unlikely they even know about LDs, let alone can recognize them. I'm in my early 50s, and except for obvious disabilities such as deafness, blindness, and speech impediments, they weren't recognized when I was a kid. If you did badly in school, it was because you were lazy, didn't care, or were stupid. If you had emotional problems or came from an abusive background, you just had to suck it up and keep quiet about it. If you caused problems in school because of your home life or psychological problems, it was because you just weren't trying hard enough to control yourself. You were a bad kid, a troublemaker. Given that the wizarding world seems to be stuck in the 18th century (at best), they probably think kids with LDs just need a good caning to motivate them.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

It's the assumption Albus wanted Harry to make (and anyone else he told). That way Harry would not take any thing Aberforth said seriously. Harry actually listening to Aberforth and doubting Albus is the last thing he would want.

And it allowed Albus to dismiss any criticism Aberforth gave him. What does my brother know he can't even read.

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

This all sounds very believable to me.

DD certainly wasn't above deliberately discrediting his brother. He might have even seen his willingness to do so as a another example of how fair and noble he is.
After all, he's not one to play favorites or protect his bothers when the Grater Good would be better served by letting Aberforth hang.

And later, once he was sure that Harry will have to die for LV to be gone forever, I expect he congratulated himself on his foresight.
It's doubtful that his "illiterate" bother could have accepted the idea of sacrificing a kid for the Grater Good.

But it’s clear enough now why Aberforth had really been helping these:”unqualified wizard kids.”

Not for self-preservation; and not in deference to his dead brother.


He’d simply wanted the last of his brother’s innocent child-victims, unlike the first, to escape alive.

I think that's spot on.
Also, he may have even seen helping the kids as as some kind of a tribute to Ariana's memory. I'm not sure about that but I'm assuming that thta secret passage to the Room of Requirement could have been placed anywhere in the bar. But Aberforth choose to have it hidden behind the portrait of Ariana.
So the way to help the innocents trapped by his brother's grand plans was quite literally connected to Ariana's memory.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

"So the way to help the innocents trapped by his brother's grand plans was quite literally connected to Ariana's memory. "

Nice catch!