Hermoine, compassion, and idealism

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone

First post, hope this works!

This started out as a comment in response to DH chapter 9, below, but I decided to put it where it can be seen more easily because I'd really like to learn what people think.

The discussion was about Hermione as compassionate and/or ruthless, which grew out of a discussion of her changing her parents' identities.

To me it seems that she cares about the rights of others as an ideal, from her own perspective. That does show compassion but it's patronising. I think that's something pretty common among Western do-gooders (and probably do-gooders more generally) and it's something I have to struggle against myself. It's entirely likely in someone so young.

The scary thought is her level of potential power and the lack of guidance in the WW to help her really consider those she's trying to help. Ron points out that house elf values are different - whether because he actually considers them or to protect the status quo - but Hermione doesn't respect anything he says. Her approach agrees perfectly with the most 'enlightened' wizarding attitudes to muggles, and there are plenty of wizards who've grown up with them. I can easily see a 'greater good' type attitude developing as Hermione gains power in the Ministry.

Since JKR worked for Amnesty I wonder if this aspect of Hermione is based on what she found there?

Also, I wonder what message she was trying to send. Is it supposed to be a good or bad part of Hermoine's character? Or, with unusual subtlety for these books, both? The message almost seems to be that 'do-gooding' is pointless - SPEW is a misguided joke, compassion is wasted on goblins and giants, and no-one questions the inferiority of muggles. At the same time I'm sure it's meant to show Hermoine's courage and goodness.

What does anyone think? Is JKR really trying to turn people off idealism? If so, does that have anything to do with the actual wishes of the 'helpees'?

Comments

[librasmile.livejournal.com]

I probably should not reply because I'm not sure how relevant my thoughts on this will seem. But...here goes nuthin'...

For quite a while now I've seen Hermione as quite smug and self-satisfied. I don't think it's just a function of the dynamics of the wizard world and her place in it as the "brightest witch of her age" I think she would have been that way had she never found her way into the wizard world. It's a hazard of coming from a very comfortable background - professional, middle class, financially secure. Not everyone from such a background is like that. But it's much easier to fall into that mindset when one is. (I can hear the backlash bubbling up now...anyhoo...)

I can't address anything specific in the chapter simply because the minute I finished reading the series most of it just faded from my mind, the details anyway. What I do recall is the complete lack of history or any kind of codified moral center. For example, when I write my fan fic I have to THINK about why an element of that world is the way it is. There COULD be VERY valid reasons of the house elves' servitude. But since no one at Hogwarts or apparently the wizard world takes the study of history seriously they never think to look back for the ORIGINS of that servitude - origins that could reveal that reason.

As for a codified moral center - religion gets a very bad rap, deservedly so when one counts up all the people killed thanks to religious wars, witch hunts. pogroms, terrorism and the like which sadly are ever going. Having acknowledged that, the one thing many many religions seem to come up with is the notion that mankind should NEVER place itself on the throne of the universe. Yet if one has magical power how do you avoid falling into that temptation? There's no institution in the wizard world that at least tries to keep that impulse in check, i.e., the impulse to elevate onesself above others.

It seems to me that the lesson of the so called deathly hallows was supposed to be this acceptance of one's limitations although it still doesn't quite send the message home if you ask me.

Okay that was tangential but hopefully you find something of value or insight in it.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

As far as the elves go, my view is this: there is something very wrong in the elves' current situation as we see it in the books. Being literally forced into obedience or into hurting oneself at the whim of sadistic or even just empathy-deprived masters is not ok, nor is treating a whole race of creatures like walking furniture ok. However, beyond those issues it becomes murkier, since we do not get a reliable, full look at what the situation looks like from the elves' own POV. All we know is that they view it differently than wizards and witches do, in a way that brings most of them to accept it for some reason/to some degree.

This might conceivably be the result of some sort of mass intergenerational brainwashing scheme foisted upon them by wizards, in which case there's an even more massive injustice going on than anything canon hinted at. Or, as Jodel convincingly argues, it could be that wizards took unfair advantage of some cultural or pyschobiological mechanism whereby elves have always connected deeply with their homestead and then twisted it or used it to lay a geas upon the elves. In which case it's the latter manipulation that's the root of the wrongness, not the elves' sense of themselves as bound in some way to something beyond themselves.

ITA regarding the lack of any check upon wizards' sense of their power and elevating themselves over others. One of the things that most disgusts me in certain kinds of fawning admiration of the series is the validating of that arrogance in arguments that Harry is like Christ because he's totally got the two natures, human/divine thing going on too! (I have literally seen it argued, yes, that one reason Harry is Christlike is because just as Jesus had a human parent and a divine one, so Harry had muggle and wizarding blood! Nevermind that Lily was a *witch,* and that being wizard is *not,* in fact, equivalent to being a deity. Grrrrrrr.)

[deathsblood.livejournal.com]

Even if it were, every half-blood would be Christ-like, which would make it meaningless, especially since I think Rowling said at some point that half of the students at Hogwarts were half-bloods.

[librasmile.livejournal.com]

YOU WROTE: As far as the elves go, my view is this: there is something very wrong in the elves' current situation as we see it in the books. Being literally forced into obedience or into hurting oneself at the whim of sadistic or even just empathy-deprived masters is not ok, nor is treating a whole race of creatures like walking furniture ok....

ME: Hmm, maybe. It all depends. If elves were human than I'd say yes. But they're not human so we don't know if they're hurt the same way. Which sounds awful I know. But I read a wonderful fan fic where Dobby turned out to be this terrifyingly powerful creature which made me wonder, hunh, maybe there's a reason the elves are so restrained. I wish I could remember the name of that fic. There's also Caeria's Pet Project which fleshes out the elves wonderfully. Hermione poses a question that has something of your elements of concern about the elves' treatment and freedom and the Elf Matriarch Lonny replies that the elf relationship to humans is something like that of a parent ( the elf ) to a child ( the human/wizard ). Her elves are also more powerful apparators than the wizads and can get through any ward. But because they are in such a humble position, the wizards completely overlook that power until the Order takes advantage of it against Voldemort. Really fascinating. Here's the URL: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2290003/1/Pet-Project


YOU WROTE: ITA regarding the lack of any check upon wizards' sense of their power and elevating themselves over others. One of the things that most disgusts me in certain kinds of fawning admiration of the series is the validating of that arrogance in arguments that Harry is like Christ because he's totally got the two natures, human/divine thing going on too! (I have literally seen it argued, yes, that one reason Harry is Christlike is because just as Jesus had a human parent and a divine one, so Harry had muggle and wizarding blood! Nevermind that Lily was a *witch,* and that being wizard is *not,* in fact, equivalent to being a deity. Grrrrrrr.)

ME: Yup, yup and yup. It's absolutely insane. But then someone wrote a book about the religious validity of Star Wars ( original, non-Lucas-crapped over version ) way back when. I kid you not. Yeah...