Hermoine, compassion, and idealism

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone

First post, hope this works!

This started out as a comment in response to DH chapter 9, below, but I decided to put it where it can be seen more easily because I'd really like to learn what people think.

The discussion was about Hermione as compassionate and/or ruthless, which grew out of a discussion of her changing her parents' identities.

To me it seems that she cares about the rights of others as an ideal, from her own perspective. That does show compassion but it's patronising. I think that's something pretty common among Western do-gooders (and probably do-gooders more generally) and it's something I have to struggle against myself. It's entirely likely in someone so young.

The scary thought is her level of potential power and the lack of guidance in the WW to help her really consider those she's trying to help. Ron points out that house elf values are different - whether because he actually considers them or to protect the status quo - but Hermione doesn't respect anything he says. Her approach agrees perfectly with the most 'enlightened' wizarding attitudes to muggles, and there are plenty of wizards who've grown up with them. I can easily see a 'greater good' type attitude developing as Hermione gains power in the Ministry.

Since JKR worked for Amnesty I wonder if this aspect of Hermione is based on what she found there?

Also, I wonder what message she was trying to send. Is it supposed to be a good or bad part of Hermoine's character? Or, with unusual subtlety for these books, both? The message almost seems to be that 'do-gooding' is pointless - SPEW is a misguided joke, compassion is wasted on goblins and giants, and no-one questions the inferiority of muggles. At the same time I'm sure it's meant to show Hermoine's courage and goodness.

What does anyone think? Is JKR really trying to turn people off idealism? If so, does that have anything to do with the actual wishes of the 'helpees'?

Comments

[maidofkent.livejournal.com]

The clue is in 'trying to look modest'. If she were actually modest, she'd be blushing and mumbling, not putting an effort in. You could say that she shoudn't have to be modest about her intellectual/magical ability, but that is a different argument. Your argument is that she is naturally modest, when the text is telling you quite clearly that she is not; she has recognised that being modest about cleverness is a socially desirable norm in the UK, and she is trying to achieve that norm. It does not come naturally.

As to the Ravenclaws' knowledge of Hermione, do they actually share any classes with the Gryffs? Potions is shared with the Slytherins, and Herbology with the Puffs, but I can't think of a class with Ravenclaw until NEWT level.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Thanks -- this is something that I was thinking, but couldn't find a good way to express.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

A modest person is someone who acts modestly.

To act modestly one has to 'try' to be modest.

That may be easy for those who are naturally modest, or have nothing to be modest about. More difficult for those who are superior to her classmates. And intelligent enough to know it.

But, luckily, determined to be modest and thus not push that fact in their faces.

As to the Ravenclaws' knowledge of Hermione, do they actually share any classes with the Gryffs?

I have no idea.

But I do think that, if Hermione had been trumpeting her superiority all over the place, the Ravenclaws would have known. Gossip has been shown to move very fast at Hogwarts.

[oryx_leucoryx]

When an external observer notices you are trying to be modest it suggests you are faking modesty, probably because you want to give the impression of modesty when you really aren't. Very immodest, very attention-seeking.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Poor Hermione. She just can't win (at deathtocapslock).

If she was bragging, boasting, egotistical, she'd be slammed for being immodest.

If she's deliberately trying NOT to boast, squelching her ego, actually being modest ... she's still slammed as being immodest.

The only way some people here will accept that she's modest is to give the girl a lobotomy and, therefore, nothing to be modest about!

[oryx_leucoryx]

No, she could have acted modestly without the author making a point of it via Harry. The way it is written she appears attention seeking.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

The more you push her as perfect, the more people will argue with you. Back off a little, and your arguments will seem more reasonable. Just a suggestion.

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think that's a bit too much. Sure, it suggests that you're trying to act modest when you don't really feel it, but that's trying to moderate your actions to be more socially acceptable, not attention seeking. I don't think Hermoine is naturally modest, but be fair, she's trying here. ( As opposed to, say, the 'haven't you worked it out yet' scene.)

I think that Hermione is not naturally modest, empathic, or sociable, but she does her best to 'do the right thing' on all of those. She's better at doing months of legal research than really understanding people face to face, but she does her best to help. Shame she doesn't get any guidance to help her understand others' needs from their own point of view.