Deathly Hallows, Chapter 21: The Tale of the Three Brothers

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Xeno tells the Trio the DH symbol is not “dark” in the sense Viktor Krum thought. He adds he was wearing the symbol in case another believer saw him and could help him find the Hallows. Isn’t it great that he used someone’s else happy social occasion to promote his own selfish, crazy agenda?

He then asks if they know “The Tale of the Three Brothers.” Ron and Hermione say they do, but Harry doesn’t. This shows how intellectually disinterested he is: He’s had the Beedle book sitting around for five months and has been sitting in a tent with it for four months, frequently bored out of his mind, with nothing else to do for entertainment, but even though it’s a short book, he still hasn’t read it! Sheesh! And I’m supposed to find this guy admirable enough to be worthy of emulation? I mean, that is one of the characteristics of a hero/heroine.

Hermione reads the story aloud at Xeno’s request. One thing Rowling got right in the 3Bs story is that it takes place at twilight in Beedle; Ron puts in that his mother always said it was midnight. Either way, those are in-between times of day, neither day nor night, or neither night nor morning, respectively. In folklore, those are the times when the veil between the living and dead or secular and magical worlds is thinnest, and strange things can happen.

We know the story, so I’ll just briefly recap it. Three brothers are walking together when they come to a river that can’t be crossed. They use their magic to build a bridge and are crossing it when they are confronted by the three billy goats gruff Death himself. (I guess if Aberforth were in the story, it would be goats. Or maybe Death would be a goat. Instead of using a scythe to “reap” souls, he’d butt them into the next world.) Death is PO’d because he was “cheated” out of three lives by their magic. Wow. If he’s mad at these brothers because they deprived him of three lives, how much angrier must he have been at Ignaz Semmelweis. His studies of disinfection in maternity wards saved countless people, particularly once Joseph Lister and Louis Pasteur used those studies to develop the germ theory of disease and infection. No wonder Semmelweis was ridiculed and died young, after being beaten to death in an asylum. That was Death’s revenge. At last the truth can be told!

Anyway, Death pretends to be pleased with the brothers’ cleverness and offers each one a prize for beating him. The oldest brother asks for an unbeatable wand, the second for a stone that can raise the dead, and the youngest for something that will keep Death from finding him, which turns out to be the Ultimate Invisibility Cloak, the possession of Death himself.

After the brothers separate, they proceed to put their prizes to use. The oldest brother is a Gryffindor an egotistical blowhard who likes to pick fights, so he promptly goes into a bar and starts bragging he can take anybody in a fight. A Slytherin Another wizard hears him and waits until the loudmouth has passed out drunk in his room. Then he creeps in, cuts the braggart’s throat, and takes the wand.

The second brother is a Ravenclaw too smart for his own good, so he goes home and calls for his dead girlfriend. She shows up, but she doesn’t belong in the living world, and at last the brother becomes so distraught about their inability to be together that he kills himself.

The third brother doesn’t take any chances. Literally. He’s so much a Hufflepuff careful that he lives a long life, literally hiding under the Cloak the entire time, and when he becomes tired of living, he goes with Death willingly, passing his cloak down to his heirs.

Although they’re not called “the Deathly Hallows” in Beedle, Xeno insists that’s what the story is about. The four argue some about it, but we know the pot isn’t cracked in this case. Yes, tiresome as it is, Gary Stu Potter really does own an artifact of Death itself. There’s enough BS in that contrivance to fertilize the entire Corn Belt for decades.

Xeno insists the other Hallows are real as well, which, given the seventh HP book’s title, is inarguable, no matter how stupid it is. Only Hermione is adamant the story isn’t true; her wrongness is one of those annoying situations where feelings and faith triumph over reason. Look, Ms. Rowling, I put up with that nonsense for years on The X-Files. I didn’t like it there, either, but that show was usually so imaginative, well-written, and well-acted, and had such likable main characters and interesting supporting characters, that I was willing to give the irrationality a pass. You are no Chris Carter, nor are Ron and the Hs Scully and Mulder. Voldemort is certainly not Cancer Man.

Xeno goes down to the kitchen to make Plimpy soup. However, if Luna has come back, there is no sign of her. HRH don’t notice that inconsistency.

Ron doesn’t believe the 3Bs story is true, either, and he doesn’t seem to be sucking up to Hermione when he says it. He blows it off as the kind of story that’s supposed to teach lessons to children. “‘Don’t go looking for trouble, don’t pick fights, don’t go messing around with stuff that’s best left alone! Just keep your head down, mind your own business, and you’ll be okay.’” Of course, that first sentence contradicts the entire Gryffindor ethos. The second comes from the Good German playbook. Since JKR keeps shoving WWII down our throats, I wonder if she was aware of the implications when she wrote that sentence.

The Trio starts arguing about which Hallow would be the best to have. Ron proves wand = penis by saying the Elder Wand would only provoke people if you went around shouting, “‘I’ve got an unbeatable wand, come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough.’”  Look at that phrasing: “have a go” is British slang for “have sex with”; “hard enough” rather than “tough enough” or “bad enough” (either of which would be the expected phrase in that context) is an obvious sexual reference. Put the two together and the sexual implications of that sentence are unmistakable. Lower down the same page, Hermione says, “Some wizards just like to boast that theirs [wands] are bigger and better than other people’s.” Wizards, not witches.

They start talking about how “infallible” Harry’s cloak is. Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t Pseudo-Moody and Dumbledore both able to see through it? So were Mrs. Norris and Nagini, but in their cases, it was probably smelling rather than seeing.

While they talk, Harry notices the painting Luna put on her bedroom ceiling of the Trio, Ginny, and Neville, with the word friends painted in gold bordering it all around. The portraits are so realistic, “Harry thought they breathed.” I know this is creepy and sad, since those people aren’t really her friends, with the possible exception of Neville, but rereading this, what I thought about was what a waste it is for someone with Luna’s considerable artistic talent not to use it.

People who can paint portraits that well are extremely rare; Pierre Mignard is the only one I can think of offhand. This is also the only sign of true artistic genius we’ve seen in the entire series. It sucks no end that so much time is wasted on stupid quests, dumb romance, and main character angsting that we never see Luna’s talent being developed, or what, if anything, she did with it. Probably nothing, given what Philistines magical people seem to be.

Think how cool it would have been if Luna’s artistic genius had been used in the resolution of one the stories.

Looking around her bedroom, Harry comes to the conclusion that Luna isn’t around and hasn’t been for weeks. When Xeno comes back with a tray of food, Harry asks him where Luna is. Xeno tries the “Plimpy fishing” line again, but Harry doesn’t buy it, not because you can’t make Plimpy soup without the Plimpies Luna is supposedly catching, but because the tray is set for four rather than five. Holy logic, Batman! Who are you, and what have you done with that dunderhead, Harry Potter?

Xeno admits he tricked them because Luna’s being held hostage by the Death Eaters, and he’s trying to get her back by trading Harry for her.

HRH look out the window and see someone arriving. Xeno tries to Stun them, but Harry shoves his friends out of the way and jumps aside, so the Stun hits the Erumpent horn and explodes it. Harry and Hermione aren’t buried in the rubble--of course--but Ron has a bureau fall on him, and Xeno falls down the spiral staircase.

Just then the DEs arrive. Thinking Xeno’s lying to them about Harry’s presence, they start torturing him. The Hs stand there silently listening to this, making no move to do anything until one of the DEs does a revealing spell, and the bad guys come looking for them.

Then the Hs rescue Ron--first trying to lift the dresser, then doing a Hover Charm. Honestly, I felt like Rowling had forgotten this charm again, then remembered it halfway through the paragraph and stuck it onto the end.

Hermione saves the day again. First, she makes the floor collapse onto the DEs, allowing them to see Harry, while Ron is covered by the cloak. Then she Apparates the three of them to a distant field.

“What a revolting development this is!” That catchphrase predates the lives of everyone on this forum, but it perfectly describes how I felt about the last few pages of this chapter. “Their daring, nerve, and chivalry set Gryffindors apart.”

HAH! There is nothing daring, nervy, or chivalrous about standing around listening while an old man is being tortured, particularly when he may already have been severely injured by a fall down a staircase. First Xeno is cursed four times when the DEs arrive. Then he is subjected to “a volley” of curses, which means at least several more. Ron can’t do anything because he is out of commission--as usual--not that he would have if he could, as we’ll see in the next chapter. But the Hs could have at least attempted to rescue Xeno. Instead, all they think about is saving their own skins. And you have the nerve to call Snape a coward, Harry?

Yes, Xeno betrayed them. So what? He admitted he was doing it only because he saw no other way to rescue his daughter. The Trio also should have expected to be betrayed at some point. It’s part of the ugliness of war. Real war, that is, not the contrived kind of kiddie war found in this book. It’s perfectly understandable and forgivable that an old man, who has no one else in his life to love but his daughter, would put her life ahead of the lives of strangers, no matter who those strangers were. If the Trio were truly heroic, rather than heroic as an informed attribute, they would have understood this and tried to save Lovegood anyway. Saving people who don’t deserve it is part of being a hero or heroine. Somewhere in one of those umpteen books she’s read, Hermione should have read that.

I’ve certainly read it in both the Warriors and Percy Jackson series. "Chivalrous Gryffindors" Harry, Hermione, and Ron have had their butts kicked in the heroism department by a bunch of stray cats and the bastard offspring of obsolete gods and goddesses. How sorry is that?

The Fool’s Golden Trio is the worst bunch of role models ever.

Comments

[caurien.livejournal.com]

Um... 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' is a common British saying. As a Brit, it doesn't really have any immediate sexual connotations and it would actually sound weird to me if Ron said 'tough enough' or 'bad enough'. Apart from that, your post was as interesting as ever.

(I've been lurking around here for ages now and *this* is what makes me speak up. *hangs head in shame*)

[annoni-no.livejournal.com]

Just seconding this. "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" really isn't sexual. The phrase has even had some American pop cultural penetration through Robbie Williams' song Millennium, clearly in the sense of being a challenge, not a come on.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Thanks to both of you for the correction. I thought it was sexual because several years ago, I was researching what effect intoxication had on the likelihood of sexual assault. I read an article written by a British woman who wrote something like, "What kind of man sees a woman passed out drunk and thinks it's an invitation to have a go at her?"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

I think the phrase is a football chant, isn't it? So it's a bit weird Ron knowing about it. Maybe he heard it from Dean Thomas.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Xeno tells the Trio the DH symbol is not “dark” in the sense Viktor Krum thought.

But still Dark in some other sense, right?

Re: the book: Apparently it is written in Runes, for no reason that we can discern. So Harry would have needed Hermione to translate it for him. Remember that since 3rd year she has been studying 2 electives that the boys were not taking? And one of them is canonically related to curse breaking? But no, Arithmancy never has any use in canon, even when the trio is after artifacts that Tom had cursed or placed under cursed protections. It's the other subject that turns out 'significant', in such a contrived and stupid way.

I'm not sure if the third brother was a Hufflepuff. Hufflepuffs do stuff. And thrive on interacting with other people.

Harry's cloak is as infalliable as the AK is unblockable. Under very narrow definitions of the respective terms.

The 5 Gryffs are Luna's friends in the sense that they talk to her and don't steal her stuff. In OOTP she mentions the opinions of her friends in Ravenclaw, but we never see any of these friends.

Xeno chose his daughter over Harry. He should be grateful Hermione only Obliviated him rather than scarred him for life.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

I'm actually surprised in this that Harry & Hermione stuck around to save Ron. Just 2 chapters ago, Hermione wanted to injure Ron with Angry Birds in circumstances under which he wouldn't have been able to go for healing without leaving H&H alone again - yet they stick around to free him from the wardrobe? I'm surprised they didn't think he would apparate himself back home!

BTW, I am struck again by the Hallows. The first two are really only a 'trick' by Death to get the brothers' deaths after all. And the last is intended to promote living in hiding. So very brave! I find it amazing that JKR gave her Gryffindor hero a 'gift' meant for a coward. Although I suspect she sees the younger brother as making the best choice, I doubt she sees it as the cunning that I see. Hufflepuff? I'll bet that youngest brother was a Slytherin!

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Xeno tells the Trio the DH symbol is not “dark” in the sense Viktor Krum thought. He adds he was wearing the symbol in case another believer saw him and could help him find the Hallows. Isn’t it great that he used someone’s else happy social occasion to promote his own selfish, crazy agenda?/

Not only selfish and crazy, but insensitive. I forget who it was, but someone made an earlier comment a while ago that Krum had every right to be offended by the symbol and that it was callous for Xeno to dismiss his reaction. After all, the swastika symbol predated Nazi Germany for centuries and yet when Westerners see it, they automatically assume it to be a symbol of the Nazis with all of the horrible connotations that come with it. If an Indian and a Westerner got into a discussion about the swastika and the Indian explained the original meaning of the symbol while acknowledging the reaction that it provokes in the Westerner as a result of its newer meaning, that would be one thing. But that’s not what Xenophilius did. His reaction is the equivalent of the Indian saying, “So, you don’t like seeing the swastika because it was used as a symbol by a genocidal regime that was responsible for the death of millions? Too bad! In my country, it’s a holy symbol, so that’s the only meaning that matters and I don't care if it makes you upset.”

/Ron proves wand = penis by saying the Elder Wand would only provoke people if you went around shouting, “‘I’ve got an unbeatable wand, come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough.’”/

Actually, I thought that Ron was proving the errors in the story. Because he’s right. The eldest brother didn’t die because the Elder Wand had corrupted him (like the One Ring). He died because he was an idiot. He died because he randomly decided to start blabbing about his new toy.

/They start talking about how “infallible” Harry’s cloak is. Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t Pseudo-Moody and Dumbledore both able to see through it?/

Yes. And Pseudo-Moody had an Invisibility Cloak too, which, from all accounts, worked the same way that Harry’s did. So, why is Harry’s Invisibility Cloak special enough to be a Hallow again?

[oryx_leucoryx]

He died because he randomly decided to start blabbing about his new toy.

Not that Harry will do any better. But he will be allowed to live.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

I realize it was selfish & insensitive of Xeno to wear a symbol of the Hallows to the Weasley wedding, however have we any idea how JKR might have accomplished having the trio know to come ask Xeno questions otherwise? All I can think of would have been some references in previous books to stories of the Hallows in the Quibbler and I'm not sure how she would have brought them up again in this book. The Weasley wedding is the last chance for the trio to get a clue about the Hallows - the subject pretty much had to come up there.

I can see why she had it be Xeno who would know - it had to be someone who might believe their might be truth in a fairytale. What I cannot see is a reason for Xeno to have some long-held interest in the Hallows in the first place. They seem to be a 'quest' for the ambitious for power (to want all three). I could understand if he was looking for the stone. I can see him easily as the 2nd brother - wanting to see his wife again. And I suppose I could see an interest in the cloak, if he thought he could protect Luna with it. But I really cannot imagine him going after the wand alone - only if he believed owning all 3 would be important. And he just doesn't seem that power-hungry to me.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I don't think Xeno wants the HHallows because he wants to use them. He wants to find them to be proven right about his belief, which is a very Ravenclaw thing.

[feyshadow95.livejournal.com]

Showing Harry to the Death Eaters was not a good plan. Did Hermione, 'brightest witch of her age', really think that the DEs would leave Xeno alone now that they realised that Harry had been in the house?
Now they know he was there, they're going to dig Xeno out of the rubble and question him about everything the Trio did and said while there. And, thanks to Hermione's memory charm, Xeno can't remember anything that happened and will tell the DEs that.
Which leaves the DEs with two choices:
a- assume Xeno's lying/ been Obliviated and torture him in the hope of getting the truth/ kicks and giggles (which could kill him or destroy his mind.
b-realise he's been Obliviated, and make him Bertha Jorkins mk2. (Voldemort would probably do it himself for a chance to find out about HRH).

We never see Xeno again in canon. And both of the DEs know that infomation on take Harry will be valued.
The question remains-was Hermione indifferent to the suffering of Xeno or did she hope to lay a false trial (letting Voldemort thinks the Trio plan to find and use the hallows against him)?

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

I'll take "Indifferent Hermione" for $1,000, Alex. As we'll see in the next chapter, none of the Trio show the slightest concern for his suffering, just indignation that he dared to betray them. Such cold-bloodedness also accords with the callousness Hermione shows throughout the rest of books 5-7.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Well. Hermione apologists had better hope that Hermione has never, ever heard that Voldemort can recover Obliviated memories. And how he does so.

I discussed this a little just now in the HermioneGhoul post after this, that the DE's, Albus, Sirius, Severus, Minerva, and Harry all know that Tom can break a Memory Charm, but only through torture extreme enough to leave both mind and body of the victim "broken beyond repair", but that Hermione might not have had access to that information.

I think the idea at the end of this chapter is supposed to be, Hermione had just PROVED that Xeno wasn't lying or trying to trick the DE's when he summoned them and claimed to have cornered Harry for them. So there was no need to punish Xeno further for lying; he hadn't been. And it clearly wasn't his fault that Harry and Hermione subsequently escaped.

(And Ron was invisible, so the DE's wouldn't know he was now traveling with Harry, and so had no reason to target the Weasleys.)

Obliviating Xeno, then, was (assuming Hermione imagined her the Memory Charm could hold), first of all, protection for the Weasleys: Xeno couldn't testify that Ron was NOT languishing at the Burrow, but teamed with Harry.

But further, once questioning the old man showed he had been Obliviated, why bother messing with him further? He could give them no information, and he hadn't betrayed the DE's. So there's no logical reason to torture him further, neither to interrogate him nor to punish him.

So Hermione, very nobly, had done exactly what oneandthetruth thought a true heroine ought, and taken what steps she could to protect the craven old man who'd betrayed her/them, but only to try to save his own child's life.

Except, of course, that her clever plan will backfire, so far as protecting poor weak Xeno is concerned. (If that was her plan.) The effect of her actions is, the DE's will report to Tom that Harry was there, and the Hermione OBliviated the old man. Thus RIVETING Tom's attention (who must be wondering what Albus had sent Harry off to do) on what Xeno could tell him. Tom is pretty much guaranteed to rip Xeno into pieces, now, to find out everything Xeno was asked.

Rather than increasing Xeno's chances of surviving without further scathe, Hermione had just guaranteed his utter destruction at the hands of their mutual enemy.

(Provided, that is, that Tom came home in time to attend to the matter, and that his DE's told him the truth about what happened there at the Rook. Given how Tom reacted to DE's who sighted Harry and let him slip through their fingers, Travers and Selwyn were arguably better off claiming that Xeno had only summoned them to try, yet again, to trade a Wrackspurt for Luna or something. But then if Tom subsequently found out the truth--and he WAS a Legilmens--well, there'd be no hope of their surviving THAT.)

So if Hermione's plan were to protect Xeno from further torture, it would have backfired gruesomely.

If, as I said, that was her plan.

But if Hermione knew that Tom could break Memory Charms by sufficient torture.....

Even if she didn't know this when she sent her parents off, she had since spent four months in a tent with Harry, obsessively reviewing everything Harry ever heard Tom say, or heard Albus say about Tom,

If Hermione had any HINT of such an idea, then Obliviating Xeno wasn't merciful. it was setting him up, a la Marietta, to be punished for betraying Harry to protect his own family.

And, she would have thought, setting Voldemort on a false trail. For when she tracked down Xeno to ask him about that sign, all she got was fairy-tale gibberish about the Deathly Hallows. Let Voldemort think that THAT was what she and Harry were searching for, some imaginary unbeatable weapon or stone to raise legions of the dead to fight him, not the Horcruxes. Send Tom off on the wild goose chase the visit to Xeno had proved to be, ha!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Provided, that is, that Tom came home in time to attend to the matter, and that his DE's told him the truth about what happened there at the Rook. Given how Tom reacted to DE's who sighted Harry and let him slip through their fingers, Travers and Selwyn were arguably better off claiming that Xeno had only summoned them to try, yet again, to trade a Wrackspurt for Luna or something. But then if Tom subsequently found out the truth--and he WAS a Legilmens--well, there'd be no hope of their surviving THAT.

To the best of my knowledge, this is the last we see of Selwyn. But Travers shows up again at Gringotts. So etiher he managed to keep the entire story from Tom or Xeno didn't last.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Saving people who don’t deserve it is part of being a hero or heroine. Somewhere in one of those umpteen books she’s read, Hermione should have read that.

Or, if she were capable of learning from experience instead of out of books, she could have learned it from Snape.

[wolf-willow31.livejournal.com]

I know this is creepy and sad, since those people aren’t really her friends ...

Ron and Hermione are friends of, and loyal to, Harry, to the exclusion of all else. They are friends - they're just not her friends. It's possible that Luna recognized that fact, and was portraying their friendship to each other. (Although that doesn't explain the presence of Neville, who once betrayed the trio, and was more dedicated to bringing Voldie down than he was loyal to Harry.)

Thinking Xeno’s lying to them about Harry’s presence, they start torturing him. The Hs stand there silently listening to this, making no move to do anything until one of the DEs does a revealing spell ...

I tried to imagine some parallel between this and Snape watching the death of Charity Burbage, but it just doesn't work. Like Snape, it could be argued that the trio couldn't act without endangering their mission. However, unlike Snape, the trio has no reason to pretend that they don't care what's being done to the victim, and yet they really don't seem concerned.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

You're right, the parallel really doesn't work. Not only for the reason you perceptively cite.

We readers realize what must have been Snape's true feelings in the snake scene (or are confirmed in our suspicions, depending)only around about the time we hear his avowal in the Prince's Tale, "Lately, only those I could not save.." So we accept that Snape could have been cold-bloodedly master of himself enough to weigh Charity's death, and her appeal to his friendship, and his own desire to protect her, against the lives that would be lost (and the students, their joint charge--Charity WAS a fellow teacher--tortured) if he betrayed his ultimate mission by breaking cover in a probably unavailing attempt to save her.

Harry, however, is the boy who imperils his whole mission, and almost kills himself and his friends, in order to rescue his dead colleague Moody's EYE from desecration. And who endangers his mission, and his soul, in order to cast an Unforgivable to punish a man for SPITTING on Professor McG. And who had, two books ago, offered to turn over the Prophecy Orb to Lucius (which action he was fully convinced would lose his side the war) to stop Bellatrix from futher torturing Neville, even though Neville himself ordered Harry not to do so.

Harry doesn't weigh costs, and with difficulty suppress his desire to save another because his duty requires a different action from him.

Not ever.

(Okay, not "not ever." Once, in canon--when he kept feeding that potion to Albus. But there Albus had explicitly forewarned him of what to expect, and gotten, repeatedly, Harry's promise of perfect obedience, whatever his heart begged him to do. Other than that, no, not ever.)

So, if Harry lounged around and listened to Death Eaters torturing Xeno without being moved to save the old man, it's because Xeno, to him, didn't deserve Harry's lifting a finger to help him.

[wolf-willow31.livejournal.com]

IIRC, JKR once said in an interview that Harry "always tried to save everyone", which continues to bother me, because clearly he didn't. He only did it when it suited him (or suited the plot), and Xeno is another example of that. The only "undeserving" one that he tried to help was Wormtail, a pointless subplot that went absolutely nowhere.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

I tried to imagine some parallel between this and Snape watching the death of Charity Burbage, but it just doesn't work. Like Snape, it could be argued that the trio couldn't act without endangering their mission. However, unlike Snape, the trio has no reason to pretend that they don't care what's being done to the victim, and yet they really don't seem concerned.

You're right; they don't seem concerned because they aren't. In the next chapter, Ron calls Xeno a "trecherous old bleeder." When Hermione has an I-told-you-so moment re the Erumpent horn blowing up Xeno's house, Ron says, "Serves him right," then asks what the DEs will do to him. Hermione "groans" she hopes they don't kill him. Then they discuss Hermione's actions re saving them, remind us her parents are (allegedly) in Australia, rave about what a genius she is, and discuss Luna's fate. Hermione then says, "I'd feel so sorry for Xenophilius if--" "--if he hadn't just tried to sell us to the Death Eaters, yeah," finishes Ron. Harry expresses no interest in Xeno of any kind. The utter callousness of these supposed role model heroes/heroine is disgusting.

I'd love to take random passages out of these books with no names of characters or sides attached and give them to people unfamiliar with the books. After they read the excerpts, I'd ask the readers whether they thought the dialogue and actions had been said/done by the good guys or the bad guys. That would make a really interesting psychology/sociology experiment. I'm sure their answers would be very revealing.

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

And here we see how important authorial choices are.

In Book 5, when Bellatrix holds Neville at wandpoint, tortures him, and threatens to do so unless Harry gives up the Prophecy--which he believes may lose the war for his side--he does so.

Except the cavalty comes over the hill JUST as he pro-offers it, so he's saved from the consequences of that choice.

Yet we're not invited to think badly of Harry for that.

But of course, he doesn't actually do so, and we find out immediately afterwards that the Prophecy was really a red herring, so it wouldn't have mattered anyhow.

(Now I'm thinking of an AU where the Prophecy did contain information that would help Tom win, and the cavalry arrived a moment later, after Lucius got his hands on it. Lucius Apparated away, Tom won, and it was all Harry's fault for caving in to pressure as Xeno did...)

And in DH, Jo carefully contrives to keep HRH, and indeed all Gryffindors, out of Xeno's position. We're not shown Molly having to choose between Ginny's life and that of a Symbol of Resistance she's met once in her life, or Harry having to choose between Ginny and defeating Tom, or Ron's family threatened. Even Neville's Gran triumphantly escapes when the DE's try to use her to put pressure on Neville.

So the Trio can afford to sneer at Xeno; God/the author won't ever force them into such a position.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Xeno tells the Trio the DH symbol is not “dark” in the sense Viktor Krum thought. He adds he was wearing the symbol in case another believer saw him and could help him find the Hallows. Isn’t it great that he used someone’s else happy social occasion to promote his own selfish, crazy agenda?

To be fair to Xeno, there isn't really any reason to think that many people in Britain recognise the Deathly Hallows symbol at all, much less associate it primarily with a megalomaniacal dark wizard. It wouldn't (and, indeed, doesn't) cause the same outrage as wearing a swastika to a muggle wedding would; most people would probably just think "Oh, look, Xeno's wearing some crazy symbol, I suppose that's the sort of thing he does," and then not give the matter a second thought.

In re: the whole "cheating death" thing: people do things to avoid getting killed all the time, so what's the big deal? Why does conjuring up a bridge to cross a dangerous river count as cheating death, and not, say, driving extra-carefully on an icy road, or avoiding a dangerous part of town on your walk to work, or getting vaccinated before you visit a tropical country?

Am I the only one to be quite annoyed with the second brother's fate? I mean, this is obviously meant to be one of these "be careful what you wish for" stories, but the second brother didn't get what he wished for, because the stone didn't actually bring his girlfriend back from the dead. Death just flat out lied to him.

The third brother's story is probably the worst, though. So what, spending your entire life cowering under a cloak and unable to interact with anyone else is meant to be a victory now? And the idea of Death having an invisibility cloak just seems... disappointing, somehow. A powerful eldritch being such as the Grim Reaper shouldn't need any aid in becoming invisible. Also, what did he do without his cloak? Could everybody see him now that he'd given it away? Did he make a new one somehow? And given that Moody could apparently see through it, can he see Death approaching him too? Is that why he survived so many injuries -- every time he saw Death coming, he'd drag himself behind some object and hide until Death went away again?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Interesting thoughts about Moody. I still half-think the eye is the Horcrux of someone (I have no idea who), and that's why it can see through Death's invisibility cloak.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

As to Moody being able to see through Death's cloak, my sense from the books (note: I may be getting this confused with swythyv's theories, not sure) was that the fable was just that, a fable, and the Hallows were really powerful objects made by wizards - possibly the Peverell bros. themselves - to which the legend became attached (possibly with help from the bros.?). In that case Moody can't literally see Death, he can just see through a very strong but wizard-made cloak.

[malic-ba.livejournal.com]

Gotta second this wrt Xeno. I don't see any evidence that the symbol was viewed with horror by the insular British WW, though on the Continent may have been a different story. So, he wore something to a social event hoping to attract fellow believers with whom he could have a conversation interesting to both. The wedding, after all, is not just the ceremony but also the reception, which is a drawn out social event in which the couple are only briefly involved and which someone as non-mainstream as Xeno might well find difficult. He hasn't tried to promote his weird beliefs to the unconverted at all - he's just wearing something which fellow believers might recognise, and make the event more convivial to both.