HBP Chapter Twenty-Three: "Horcruxes"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* So Harry goes into Dumbledore’s office and we all get to see the memory. Brace yourself for some disappointment, people, it’s going to seem really anti-climactic after all the build-up we were given.

* Tom’s attempt to get the info out of Slughorn is “very well done”, if by “very well done” you mean “so blatant that even Mr. Oblivious Potter can see what he’s up to”.

* Riddle’s practically drooling before long. Yup, that boy sure is a master at this sort of thing.

* It’s a bit odd that Slughorn’s so shocked at the idea of killing people. I mean, c’mon, since when has wizarding society ever shown any disapproval of casual violence?

* I’m not sure why nobody’s allowed to talk about Horcruxes in Hogwarts. I mean, sure, there’s the danger that somebody might try and make one, but Muggle schools don’t feel the need to ban people from talking about murder for fear that someone will go on a killing spree.

* Although then again, wizards in general are quite psychopathic, maybe keeping them in ignorance about Horcruxes is the only way to stop them from trying to make some…

* I’m surprised Voldemort is the first wizard ever to make more than one Horcrux. It seems like an obvious enough idea that at least one other person would have tried it, even given the points raised in Sunnyskywalker’s post.

* Or maybe they did, and there’s a long-forgotten dark wizard’s soul hiding away, just waiting for somebody to resurrect them…

* “A mere memory starting to act and think for itself?” What, you mean like portraits which can have conversations with people, lock students out of common rooms when they’re annoyed, or pretend to be asleep when listening in on conversations? Or people in photographs who can get annoyed and storm off the edges of their picture? Or ghosts who can chat with students? Yeah, Riddle’s diary sure was unique, alright. *rolls eyes*

* “‘I still don’t understand,’ said Harry.” Well colour me shocked.

* Everybody seems a little too ready to buy the six Horcruxes theory. I mean, sure, it’s plausible, based on what we’ve seen, but the evidence for it isn’t decisive by any means. How does Dumbledore know that he didn’t actually make seven Horcruxes? Or that he got around to making all of them? Or that he didn’t stop short when all the soul-splitting made him too unstable?

* And why, for that matter, does anybody wishing to kill Voldemort have to attack his body last of all? Surely if you destroyed that first, it would then be much easier to destroy the other Horcruxes without Voldemort breathing down your neck and trying to stop you.

* Wow, these Horcruxes must be really dangerous, if Dumbledore was almost killed trying to destroy one. Remind me again why exactly he’s sending Harry to get rid of them?

* Wait a minute… Dumbledore says that Tom would have chosen special objects as his Horcruxes, and that the diary was special to him, even though it didn’t seem special to anybody looking at it. So how do we know that at least some of the other Horcruxes aren’t also special to Tom without looking special? Why assume that they all must be showy magical heirlooms?

* I’m not sure why Rowling needed to have Harry “counting on his fingers”, since it just makes him look like an idiot. Then again, Hogwarts doesn’t seem to offer any education in mathematics, so maybe wizards in general can’t actually count up to six in their head.

* Now you see, this “reserving Horcruxes for significant deaths” thing is where Voldemort’s love of the dramatic really bites him on the backside. If he’s just killed random muggle homeless people, he could have had seven or more well before he went after Harry, and nobody would have noticed or, unfortunately, cared.

* “‘An admirably succinct and accurate summary, yes,’ said Dumbledore, bowing his head.” Hmm, so now Dumbledore’s praising Harry for, essentially, repeating what the Headmaster told him all of forty seconds ago. No wonder that boy has a superiority complex.

* Although sadly enough it seems like repeating stuff you’ve heard/read is considered the apex of intelligence in the wizarding world. Cf. every time Hermione gets praised by a teacher.

* Dumbledore warns Harry that, even though Voldemort’s soul is damaged, his brain remains intact. Well, I suppose we’ll just have to take Albus’ word for it, since it’s certainly not obvious from Voldie’s behaviour.

* All this talk of Voldemort’s brain reminds me of the fan theory that his plans are so rubbish because the resurrection ceremony didn’t work and he ended up returning as an idiot. *sigh* It’s sad when the best way to make sense of a series is to assume that the main villain’s suffering from brain damage.

* I have to admit, I do quite like the idea of Voldemort trying to squash a potential threat and instead making his own worst enemy. I mean, yeah, the whole “person tries to avert a prophecy, and in so doing ends up bringing it to fulfilment” trope is quite common, but it’s not a bad one for all that. A pity this angle was ditched in favour of the silly wand lore business.

Comments

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Tom’s attempt to get the info out of Slughorn is “very well done”/

It’s kind of funny how admiring Harry sounds when he describes Tom’s subterfuge. I’m sure that it was unintentional on JKR’s part, but the way that Harry describes Tom’s deception is so detailed and attentive that you have to wonder if Harry is subconsciously wishing to be as skillful as Tom, is bitter about the way Tom tricked him, is morbidly fascinated, or (as the Harry/Tom shippers would say) admires Tom himself.

/Yeah, Riddle’s diary sure was unique, alright./

But it was unique when it came to the other Horcruxes. For some reason, none of the other Horcruxes behave the same way that the Diary Horcrux did. Nagini and Harry don’t act any differently, we never see the Ring Horcrux before Dumbledore destroyed it so we don’t see how it acted, and the Cup Horcrux and Diadem Horcrux do nothing. The Horcrux that comes closest to mimicking the diary is the Locket Horcrux and even it doesn’t behave the same way. It doesn’t act as its own sentient and sapient person; it merely influences the person who is in contact with it, like the One Ring from “Lord of the Rings.”

/Surely if you destroyed that first, it would then be much easier to destroy the other Horcruxes without Voldemort breathing down your neck and trying to stop you./

Well, that comes down to how the Horcruxes work. Yes, Voldemort almost died and was torn from his body despite the Horcruxes, but was that because of the rebound Avada Kedavra or Lily’s sacrificial magic? Because if it’s the former, then nothing’s stopping anybody from shooting Avada Kedavra at him and searching for the other Horcruxes while Voldemort is a disembodied ghost again (which begs the question of why Dumbledore didn’t start looking for Horcruxes as soon as he suspected that Voldemort had made them). If, however, Voldemort was vanquished solely because of Lily’s sacrifice, then that means that Avada Kedavra doesn’t work on him because of the Horcruxes. If the Horcruxes rendered Voldemort’s body invulnerable (save for Lily’s sacrificial magic), then that would be a good reason why Harry and Co. had to destroy the Horcruxes first before trying to kill Voldemort.

/Remind me again why exactly he’s sending Harry to get rid of them?/

The movie partly remedied this by making Harry able to sense other Horcruxes. In that case, it makes sense to bring him along, since he’s the ultimate Horcrux detector. However, that still doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t need more powerful wizards to back him up and help destroy them.

/Hogwarts doesn’t seem to offer any education in mathematics/

Arithmancy is a type of mathematics, right? But then again, it’s not a mandatory subject and it’s not taught for all seven years at Hogwarts.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

re Harry's admiration for Tom: *grins*
I'd say it's part of Rowling's quest to impress upon us that attractive suave men are the really bad ones. Remember girls, go for the nearly brainless jocks - they are much easier to manipulate!

As to the weird behaviour of the several horcruxes: It's kind of typical that after 7 books we still don't really know how Horcruxes work even though they are at the centre of the story (plotwise) and any not brain-dead character would have found out how they are created, how they worked, how they can be detected and destroyed the moment they realized what they were up against etc. Not just for simple logical reasons either but because it would have been interesting for example to not only see Ron's insecurities but Hermione's (and Neville's) as well. Hell, you could even have had an unexpected reaction from Voldy himself when he decided to kill Harry in the Forest! If the locket Horcrux sensed Ron's intentions why wouldn't the Harry Horcrux do the same?

Your idea to salvage the weird dogma to first destroy the Horcruxes and then voldy himself (which, as aikaterini pointed out is highly idiotic, i.e. very Dumbledoresque) is commendable, but it's hard to explain why sacrificial love wouldn't work by putting something like a safety bubble around the person that is meant to be saved (Harry is not killed, but he does get a scar, and - more importantly - the Voldy soul piece gets into him, so he was far from untouchable by less than benign forces from the outside) but instead attacks the attacker with such force that it is more destructive than the ultimate destructive force (Avada Kedavra).

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Your idea to salvage the weird dogma to first destroy the Horcruxes and then voldy himself (which, as aikaterini pointed out is highly idiotic, i.e. very Dumbledoresque) is commendable, but it's hard to explain why sacrificial love wouldn't work by putting something like a safety bubble around the person that is meant to be saved (Harry is not killed, but he does get a scar, and - more importantly - the Voldy soul piece gets into him, so he was far from untouchable by less than benign forces from the outside) but instead attacks the attacker with such force that it is more destructive than the ultimate destructive force (Avada Kedavra).

It may be hard to explain, but it's not like it wasn't foreshadowed - this is, after all, the series whose first instalment tells us that love will burn to death someone possessed, abused, and forced to obey by a monster but let said monster run away unimpaired.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Mwuahahaha!!! You are so right and I didn't have the pure heart to appreciate these intricacies of true love...

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Nice catch.

But Quirrell's horrific death wasn't caused by Lily's love/sacrifice, but by the charm DUMBLEDORE cast powered by that sacrifice. Or so he said.

OotP 37--

"She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother's blood....

"...but still she [Petunia] took you, and in doing so she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother's sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you....

"While you can still call home the place where your mother's blood dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed her blood, but it lives on in your and her sister. Her blood became your refuge. ["Became," note, not "was." This is value-added, here.] You need return there only once a year, but as long as you still call it home, there he cannot hurt you."

See? The burn-to-death spell was Twinkles; invention. It's HIS idea of how love-protection works. Nice guy.

It worked on Quirrell because they were at Hogwarts, and someone of Lily's blood dwelled in Hogwarts and called it home-- Harry himself.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Harry gets the scar *because* the soul piece got into him. The AK never touched him. As to how it happened - I think Terri had the best idea when she proposed that sacrificial love created lucky circumstances - the AK hit some other object near Harry and got reflected. AKs that hit inanimate objects do that (though rarely so perfectly).