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deathtocapslockWhy on earth should Astronomy be one of the seven mandatory subjects for five years at Hogwarts? (Though none of the Trio, not even Hermione, considered it worth further study.)
It’s a Muggle science, dammit! The first to attain that status in Western culture, no less—part of the Quadrivium, one of the Seven Liberal Arts. Next we’ll see wizards studying Logic!
What does the Muggle science of the sky have to do with magic?
Do we ever see astronomical observations actually used in the Potterverse?
The Centaurs certainly practice a form of Astrology—but they are scathingly dismissive of the human version of that art, claiming that only the fate of nations and races, never of individuals, can be read in the stars, and then not easily interpreted. What Sybil teaches as Astrology, they claim, is simple nonsense, human self-deception.
Moreover, Divination itself is an optional course, and one not well-regarded by all witches and wizards. In fact, particularly not well regarded by those most characterized by common sense and a desire for measurable results. Whereas Astronomy is a science, requiring exact and unbiased observation.
If the only or primary use for Astronomy were Astrology, one would think it would be taught simply as an adjunct to Divination—not even as an independent, much less as a mandatory, field of study.
Where else do we see Astronomical calculations come into play in the magical theory or practice taught at Hogwarts?
Well, the moon pops ups periodically. Werewolves transform in the light of the full moon. So knowing when the moon is full could save your life.
We further hear the moon mentioned in connection with two potions: Polyjuice Potion requires its fluxweed to be picked at the full moon. Then the leeches need to simmer for 21 days, so what with one thing and another, Polyjuice takes in total at least a lunar month to make.
While Veritaserum, Snape told Umbridge, requires “a moon cycle” to mature.
And then there’s Felix Felicis, which takes 6 months to brew. Er—is that 180 days, or 183, or six lunar months, or half a solar year, or what? (Or a particular half of a solar year, even?)
Well, and then there’s Alchemy, a subject NOT currently taught at Hogwarts (though Albus himself is not only a master, he apparently studied it at school in his time). Alchemy is full of Astrological references, which however are not taught under Albus’s leadership.
Whereas Divination is a subject (another subject) Albus considered dropping altogether.
So what is Astronomy good for? I don’t need to learn the constellations to keep track of when the moon is full, and that’s the only celestial phenomenon that we observe producing any significant magical impact.
Well, so what was Astronomy invented for? In the real world?
Well, for Astrology, partly.
But more—to accurately predict seasonal phenomena (in Egypt, the appearance of Sirius signaled the imminent rise of the Nile).
To correctly time seasonal rituals.
And to tell time and determine position accurately.
Before the GPS, celestial navigation was what one used to determine position, in the absence of known landmarks. (And also direction, if one had no compass.)
As for telling time—we moderns think of time as absolute numbers, shared by all the people in a time zone. Hours are of a set length, there are twenty-four of them in a day, you and I can both look at clocks and agree what time it is, even if you live on the far eastern edge of a time zone and I on the far western edge. Or in the polar region versus on the equator.
Even though our sunrises might, by the clock, be hours apart. Seven am—time to get up! Even if for you, it’s two and a half hours before dawn while for me it’s been light for an hour.
But the old idea of time was based on daylight. This idea of people in widely separated places keeping their clocks at the same time—that’s modern, contrived, and really rather silly. Without coordinated clocks and nearly-universal artificial lighting, the day naturally begins at sunrise (or at first light) and goes through sundown (or last light).
Islam still keeps to this idea in timing its prayers: local first light, dawn, midday (which will almost never be noon), midafternoon, sunset, and last light. And the pious check to be sure they’ve got the times right for their specific latitude and longitude as carefully as they orient themselves toward Mecca. The medieval Christian church did the same: Vespers started at sunset, Matins ended at dawn, Sext was supposed to correspond to midday. The Jewish calculations went even a little further—an “hour” was defined as one-twelfth of the day—as in period of daylight. So in high latitudes, summer hours were longer than winter ones.
And this view of time makes much more sense for magic, doesn’t it? There’s no apparent reason why a spell should work differently at 11:52 am than at 11:59:59 than at 12:19 pm, looking at the numbers, is there? Which are arbitrarily assigned anyhow, to 1/24th of the earth’s surface, and calibrated according to some Muggle device.
But that some spells might be most effective cast exactly at midday—whenever midday is locally—or precisely at midnight (not at 12 o’clock)—or that a ritual might ideally run from sunset to last light—well, that makes more sense.
And if so, then astronomy would be absolutely required to navigate the night hours (and to add precision to the day ones). Even if you had an extremely accurate clock (a distinctly modern innovation), it could still only tell you the time according to some arbitrary standard (Greenwich mean time, or Green Witch Time, or whatever). Knowing that won’t in itself tell you when it’s precisely midnight where you’re standing right now, or when it’s twenty-two minutes before moonrise (for a twenty-two-minute-and-one-second ritual that’s supposed to climax exactly as the moon appears).
But a sufficiently good grounding in Astronomy will. When this star is at this angle above the horizon in winter, then it’s an hour after sunset. And two people in different places, doing the same spell one hour after local sunset, can correctly do it at different times, each synchronizing with the earth itself rather than with an arbitrary timekeeper.
Which takes us, finally, to the testimony of Professor Snape—the only of his teachers that Harry ever noticed trying to give a theoretical underpinning to his lessons. Severus said something to Harry in Occlumency lessons that’s very germane here: “Space and time matter in magic.”
Well, is that true? Or rather, have we seen that be true?
Well, proximity matters to many spells—most that we see have to be cast line-of-sight. (Including run-of-the-mill Legilimency, which is the example Severus was discussing with Harry.) But, space in general? Location? Have we seen spells that required or benefitted from being cast in a certain place? Or that were hindered? (Apparition at Hogwarts, yes—but that’s a ban enforced, and lifted at will, by the headmaster.)
Really, if Severus simply meant that most spells required you to be close, he should just have said that!
And… time? When have we ever seen specific times be an issue in Potterverse magic?
Well—with that one dark creature, the werewolf. And with those three potions—what were they again?
Oh, yeah. Polyjuice, Veritaserum, and Felix.
All arguably Dark.
What were Professor Snape’s particular areas of expertise, again? Potions, mental magic, and… what?
In the Dark Arts, in ritual magic, one might call upon (or be acted on by) powers (or even Powers) outside oneself. And for that, space and time most definitely might matter. One might well sometimes need to be in the right place, in the right time, as well as in the right frame of mind.
(Tom chose to postpone his resurrection not just to use Harry’s blood but to stage it at night, dark of the moon, sun waning, in his father’s graveyard… random choices on his part? Procrastination and laziness? Because clearly it’s harder to steal, conceal, and transport a femur than a kidnapped celebrity, so he had to bring Harry to the bone…. As Tom also waited patiently until Samhain to attack the Potters, or picked the Lammas-Eve baby, the Holly King, as his greatest potential threat?)
If “space and time matter in [Dark} magic,” as we’ve no evidence either does in the magic taught in the present Hogwarts curriculum, then being able to orient oneself accurately in space and time on this earth—mastering practical Astronomy—would be a critically important base skill.
To anyone (say from the old families) still practicing the Old Arts.
Which, however, are no longer taught at Hogwarts, not even as electives.
Though the very oldest, richest, most influential families are still privately tutoring their children in them.
And these families would probably be annoyed if Astronomy—an uncongenial, highly technical subject rich in tables and calculations and exact observations—were suddenly added to their private tutorial burden.
Whereas the Muggleborns’ parents are just happy to see so comprehensible a subject as a respectable Muggle science appear on the Hogwarts syllabus. Even if it is an oddly specialized one.
So, my contention is that Astronomy was taught originally in conjunction with the Dark Arts. And its continued retention on the syllabus reflects mostly natural conservatism. We’ve always taught that; why should we stop now? But only those still practicing the Dark Arts actually regularly use it.
Which would be why that ultimate swot, Miss Granger, saw no need to keep up with her Astronomy. No magic that she’d been taught seemed to use it.
Little fool.
Or rather, poor little ignoramus.
It’s a Muggle science, dammit! The first to attain that status in Western culture, no less—part of the Quadrivium, one of the Seven Liberal Arts. Next we’ll see wizards studying Logic!
What does the Muggle science of the sky have to do with magic?
Do we ever see astronomical observations actually used in the Potterverse?
The Centaurs certainly practice a form of Astrology—but they are scathingly dismissive of the human version of that art, claiming that only the fate of nations and races, never of individuals, can be read in the stars, and then not easily interpreted. What Sybil teaches as Astrology, they claim, is simple nonsense, human self-deception.
Moreover, Divination itself is an optional course, and one not well-regarded by all witches and wizards. In fact, particularly not well regarded by those most characterized by common sense and a desire for measurable results. Whereas Astronomy is a science, requiring exact and unbiased observation.
If the only or primary use for Astronomy were Astrology, one would think it would be taught simply as an adjunct to Divination—not even as an independent, much less as a mandatory, field of study.
Where else do we see Astronomical calculations come into play in the magical theory or practice taught at Hogwarts?
Well, the moon pops ups periodically. Werewolves transform in the light of the full moon. So knowing when the moon is full could save your life.
We further hear the moon mentioned in connection with two potions: Polyjuice Potion requires its fluxweed to be picked at the full moon. Then the leeches need to simmer for 21 days, so what with one thing and another, Polyjuice takes in total at least a lunar month to make.
While Veritaserum, Snape told Umbridge, requires “a moon cycle” to mature.
And then there’s Felix Felicis, which takes 6 months to brew. Er—is that 180 days, or 183, or six lunar months, or half a solar year, or what? (Or a particular half of a solar year, even?)
Well, and then there’s Alchemy, a subject NOT currently taught at Hogwarts (though Albus himself is not only a master, he apparently studied it at school in his time). Alchemy is full of Astrological references, which however are not taught under Albus’s leadership.
Whereas Divination is a subject (another subject) Albus considered dropping altogether.
So what is Astronomy good for? I don’t need to learn the constellations to keep track of when the moon is full, and that’s the only celestial phenomenon that we observe producing any significant magical impact.
Well, so what was Astronomy invented for? In the real world?
Well, for Astrology, partly.
But more—to accurately predict seasonal phenomena (in Egypt, the appearance of Sirius signaled the imminent rise of the Nile).
To correctly time seasonal rituals.
And to tell time and determine position accurately.
Before the GPS, celestial navigation was what one used to determine position, in the absence of known landmarks. (And also direction, if one had no compass.)
As for telling time—we moderns think of time as absolute numbers, shared by all the people in a time zone. Hours are of a set length, there are twenty-four of them in a day, you and I can both look at clocks and agree what time it is, even if you live on the far eastern edge of a time zone and I on the far western edge. Or in the polar region versus on the equator.
Even though our sunrises might, by the clock, be hours apart. Seven am—time to get up! Even if for you, it’s two and a half hours before dawn while for me it’s been light for an hour.
But the old idea of time was based on daylight. This idea of people in widely separated places keeping their clocks at the same time—that’s modern, contrived, and really rather silly. Without coordinated clocks and nearly-universal artificial lighting, the day naturally begins at sunrise (or at first light) and goes through sundown (or last light).
Islam still keeps to this idea in timing its prayers: local first light, dawn, midday (which will almost never be noon), midafternoon, sunset, and last light. And the pious check to be sure they’ve got the times right for their specific latitude and longitude as carefully as they orient themselves toward Mecca. The medieval Christian church did the same: Vespers started at sunset, Matins ended at dawn, Sext was supposed to correspond to midday. The Jewish calculations went even a little further—an “hour” was defined as one-twelfth of the day—as in period of daylight. So in high latitudes, summer hours were longer than winter ones.
And this view of time makes much more sense for magic, doesn’t it? There’s no apparent reason why a spell should work differently at 11:52 am than at 11:59:59 than at 12:19 pm, looking at the numbers, is there? Which are arbitrarily assigned anyhow, to 1/24th of the earth’s surface, and calibrated according to some Muggle device.
But that some spells might be most effective cast exactly at midday—whenever midday is locally—or precisely at midnight (not at 12 o’clock)—or that a ritual might ideally run from sunset to last light—well, that makes more sense.
And if so, then astronomy would be absolutely required to navigate the night hours (and to add precision to the day ones). Even if you had an extremely accurate clock (a distinctly modern innovation), it could still only tell you the time according to some arbitrary standard (Greenwich mean time, or Green Witch Time, or whatever). Knowing that won’t in itself tell you when it’s precisely midnight where you’re standing right now, or when it’s twenty-two minutes before moonrise (for a twenty-two-minute-and-one-second ritual that’s supposed to climax exactly as the moon appears).
But a sufficiently good grounding in Astronomy will. When this star is at this angle above the horizon in winter, then it’s an hour after sunset. And two people in different places, doing the same spell one hour after local sunset, can correctly do it at different times, each synchronizing with the earth itself rather than with an arbitrary timekeeper.
Which takes us, finally, to the testimony of Professor Snape—the only of his teachers that Harry ever noticed trying to give a theoretical underpinning to his lessons. Severus said something to Harry in Occlumency lessons that’s very germane here: “Space and time matter in magic.”
Well, is that true? Or rather, have we seen that be true?
Well, proximity matters to many spells—most that we see have to be cast line-of-sight. (Including run-of-the-mill Legilimency, which is the example Severus was discussing with Harry.) But, space in general? Location? Have we seen spells that required or benefitted from being cast in a certain place? Or that were hindered? (Apparition at Hogwarts, yes—but that’s a ban enforced, and lifted at will, by the headmaster.)
Really, if Severus simply meant that most spells required you to be close, he should just have said that!
And… time? When have we ever seen specific times be an issue in Potterverse magic?
Well—with that one dark creature, the werewolf. And with those three potions—what were they again?
Oh, yeah. Polyjuice, Veritaserum, and Felix.
All arguably Dark.
What were Professor Snape’s particular areas of expertise, again? Potions, mental magic, and… what?
In the Dark Arts, in ritual magic, one might call upon (or be acted on by) powers (or even Powers) outside oneself. And for that, space and time most definitely might matter. One might well sometimes need to be in the right place, in the right time, as well as in the right frame of mind.
(Tom chose to postpone his resurrection not just to use Harry’s blood but to stage it at night, dark of the moon, sun waning, in his father’s graveyard… random choices on his part? Procrastination and laziness? Because clearly it’s harder to steal, conceal, and transport a femur than a kidnapped celebrity, so he had to bring Harry to the bone…. As Tom also waited patiently until Samhain to attack the Potters, or picked the Lammas-Eve baby, the Holly King, as his greatest potential threat?)
If “space and time matter in [Dark} magic,” as we’ve no evidence either does in the magic taught in the present Hogwarts curriculum, then being able to orient oneself accurately in space and time on this earth—mastering practical Astronomy—would be a critically important base skill.
To anyone (say from the old families) still practicing the Old Arts.
Which, however, are no longer taught at Hogwarts, not even as electives.
Though the very oldest, richest, most influential families are still privately tutoring their children in them.
And these families would probably be annoyed if Astronomy—an uncongenial, highly technical subject rich in tables and calculations and exact observations—were suddenly added to their private tutorial burden.
Whereas the Muggleborns’ parents are just happy to see so comprehensible a subject as a respectable Muggle science appear on the Hogwarts syllabus. Even if it is an oddly specialized one.
So, my contention is that Astronomy was taught originally in conjunction with the Dark Arts. And its continued retention on the syllabus reflects mostly natural conservatism. We’ve always taught that; why should we stop now? But only those still practicing the Dark Arts actually regularly use it.
Which would be why that ultimate swot, Miss Granger, saw no need to keep up with her Astronomy. No magic that she’d been taught seemed to use it.
Little fool.
Or rather, poor little ignoramus.
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no subject
Date: 2014-01-16 07:01 pm (UTC)We never see Hermione actually use Arithmancy either, but she did presumably continue to take it for all 6 years we saw and presumably went back and finished it. Do we actually know what subjects she took after NEWTs? I don't recall them being mentioned, so now I'm wondering whether she dropped Astrology, Arithmancy & Runes.
I can however see that place and time might matter to Arithmancy. We don't know that there are not rituals for the 'Light' side of magic simply because Harry isn't enough of an intellectual to wonder about higher forms of magic.
One of those silly little things that bothers me in JKRs world is that 'Dark' ritual for rebirth. Yes - place must matter as you say. Otherwise it is unlikely to need for it to take place in a graveyard except for drama. And while I can see Voldy as one for drama for the sake of it, I can't see him wanting to risk any DEs discovering his muggle father. Wormtail excepted, simply because he needed him for the ritual. Want to bet that silver arm might have strangled him earlier if he tried to relay that info to any of his fellow DEs?
However, if time matters (which makes much more sense for Voldy waiting so long) then why does it take place on June 24th and not June 21st - the summer solstice? It would seem that it is more important that it make use of the last task, than an important date. Ooops! Numbers? Maths?
I cannot believe Voldy would NOT use the Solstice! He did after all intend to use another important date for attacking the Potters (and the intended making of his last horcrux). I contend that JKR blanked out on the date.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-16 07:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-16 09:14 pm (UTC)I don't honestly see how she could have continued with all of them as she no longer had a time turner after 3rd year. I presume that once she didn't have a way to take so many classes that at least Muggle Studies and Divination went by the wayside.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 02:42 am (UTC)So of her 11 OWLS, whe dropped four: Astronomy, History, CoMC, and I imagine her last Outstanding OWL must have been in Muggle Studies even though she hasn't been taking the class since 3rd year.
And yes, she said at the end of third year that she was dropping MS & Divination.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 02:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 04:38 pm (UTC)But why the need to 'clear' classes in person. Why couldn't it be done over the summer by owl? Not that it matters much to today's discussion and Minerva did need to talk Neville into taking charms (I think it was). But it is clearly all a plot device that means Harry shows up needing a book.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 03:22 am (UTC)A lot of Northern European, Christianized cultures CELEBRATE Midsummer on St. John's Day. June 24th. Said to be the natal feast of St. John the Baptist.
Which, coincidentally, was the date of the summer solstice in Rome back a thousand-plus years ago when the Church was codifying the dates of some of its most important feasts.
You know, like how Yule, the celebration of the nativity of Jesus, ended up a few days AFTERr what is currently the Winter Solstice....?
Precession is a wonderful thing.
So Jo (or Voldie) picked the day midsummer is CELEBRATED rather than the day it OCCURS. Which actually, could be taken to be quite--symbolic. Especially if you think---fools are celebrating the triumph of the sun, its greatest strength, while in fact it has already started waning....
Finally, do we know when, precisely, the date for the Third Task was set? It was set for late June, apparrently, from the beginning, to allow Jo to drag out her story for a school year and the contenders to skip their final exams.
But when was the final date SET?
Pausing to relfect that from late August until the end of May, the organizer of the event was held under Imperius by Tom.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 04:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 05:07 pm (UTC)It's too bad sometimes that we cannot edit.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 05:19 pm (UTC)And, of course, the opening of the competition begins with the arrival of the Goblet on Oct. 31 - an important celtic date. While the choosing of the competitors by the Goblet is on Nov 1 - All Saints Day - another church date.
Which means the TriWizard Competition was set up to begin and end on important days. In other words, that it might not just be only the Dark Wizards that use dates as auspicious signs. Unless you're suggesting it was entirely a Voldy set-up and no one in the Ministry noticed? I would think that anything set to occur on one of these important dates might be consider suspicious if the timing was only useful for 'dark rituals'
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-20 05:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-20 07:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-25 04:01 am (UTC)I wonder how many other potions require certain astronomical conditions? Hermione claims love potions aren't dark, but she doesn't ever display a firm theoretical grasp of what "dark" actually entails in our hearing. And anyway, there's more than one type, iirc. Does it make a difference if Venus is the morning as opposed to the evening star at the time? (Maybe that's how that particular twinkly light got assigned "Venus" in the name-those-sky-wanderers lottery in the first place: it effects love potions.)
You also have to wonder about eclipses, syzygy generally, periodic comets...
We also know from Harry's one essay that they are aware of things like Europa having ice and Io having volcanoes. This is probably down to Rowling finding those factoids easier to understand and work into a story than calculating the position of Mercury next August 12, but maybe in-universe it's a sign that Muggle science is making inroads. Or they have some super-magical telescopes.
no subject
Date: 2020-10-17 08:47 pm (UTC)There are several mentions of St. John's Day rituals. Bonfire-jumping to ensure health for the next year was one popular one throughout eastern Europe and the Balkans, apparently. So was taking a bath. (One Bulgarian ethnographer in 1914 complained that people hardly ever bathed except on St. John's Day.) Collecting healing herbs was another health-related tradition. And Bulgaria had an "Enyo's Bride" ritual which involved girls dancing around the village and its wells (and over herbs) and prophesying about whether the harvest would be abundant. In general, the rituals all had some kind of health/fertility/abundance focus.
Voldemort taking a cauldron-bath over a fire to restore his life and health on St. John's Day sounds a little less random now. Maybe there is something magical about the day in the Potterverse, whether inherently or conferred by centuries of belief. And we know Voldemort spent time in the Balkans. Maybe he learned--and grossly perverted, this being Voldemort--some of the local rituals?
no subject
Date: 2014-01-16 07:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 05:22 am (UTC)Not if you want the trains to run on time. That's why there was the movement for "Universal Time" in the Nineteenth Century: train schedules. Before that, the time in your local town was whatever it said on the main clock in the town hall. When your town clock said noon, the town clock ten miles away might say 12:09, and fifteen miles in the other direction it might be 11:57. But everyone running the railroads has to have their watches set to the same time.
Wizarding Britain doesn't worry about trains running on time because they have only one train, and it has only two stops. Oh, maths!
no subject
Date: 2014-01-17 09:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-18 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-20 07:11 am (UTC)We know that in 6th year Draco took Potions, DADA and Transfiguration, at the very least, and that like others, he discontinued Care of Magical Creatures. But we do not know if he continued Charms or Herbology, nor do we know if he took any class of those Harry didn't take.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-31 04:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-01-31 06:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-25 04:18 am (UTC)I'd also be curious to know if they use both geocentric and heliocentric models of the solar system to make those star charts. Harry never remarks on any of the models he sees (like Trelawnye's) being "old fashioned," but who knows with him. Anyway, you can predict where Venus will be perfectly well using all those Ptolemaic epicycles.
It would also be interesting to know more about those significant locations. Magical springs? Places where ley lines cross? Hallowed ground? Crossroads? Liminal places like shorelines and thresholds?