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Feb. 2nd, 2014 02:00 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
ladyzenobia.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
deathtocapslockhttp://www.hypable.com/2014/02/01/jk-rowling-ron-hermione-relationship-regret-interview/
“I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfillment,” she says. “That’s how it was conceived, really. For reasons that have very little to do with literature and far more to do with me clinging to the plot as I first imagined it, Hermione ended up with Ron.”
Have you seen this? I think it's interesting that she said that she was clinging to the plot as she first imagined it. That explains a lot about the epilogue!
“I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfillment,” she says. “That’s how it was conceived, really. For reasons that have very little to do with literature and far more to do with me clinging to the plot as I first imagined it, Hermione ended up with Ron.”
Have you seen this? I think it's interesting that she said that she was clinging to the plot as she first imagined it. That explains a lot about the epilogue!
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Date: 2014-02-02 12:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-02 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-02 12:39 am (UTC)Another thing that bugs me is Ron just stepping into his dead brother's place like that. As if all Weasleys were interchangeable ...
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Date: 2014-02-02 12:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-02 01:03 am (UTC)I'm also wondering if it's an April Fools joke come early. I await confirmation of the official article/interview with interest.
The best part of this (if it's true) is that it simply confirms what we've come to realise - she was a seat-of-her-pants author who wrote with little logic or planning. Which vindicates those of us who point out how she failed so badly in concluding her series.
On the personal front I can't help but wonder what the poor pro-Jo disciples will do; those of them who exulted in following her/their precious OBHWF pairings "because it's canon" ... and "because Jo said so".
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Date: 2014-02-02 02:15 am (UTC)To be honest, I think the books show that she wasn't developing Harry and Hermione in a direction that would have brought them together, and I don't think following the typical convention of the hero and the main girl getting together would have necessarily made for rewarding reading. But there's no doubt that Ron and Hermione are not a compatible partnership, and that their relationship would not have lasted (it was like Johnny and Baby - a summer fling and then they both would have moved on to someone more suitable).
I wonder what she means by wish-fulfilment, though. Didn't she once say that Ron was based on her best guy friend when she was younger? Maybe she held a candle for him or something.
Also, as a staunch Ginny-hater, I wonder where this leaves Ginny in her plans? Might have to buy this paper...
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Date: 2014-02-02 03:23 am (UTC)It certainly makes a farce out of the idea of James and Lily, if you ask me. Her comments about avoiding the 'bad boys' seem to show she had no idea that James might be considered a 'bad boy'/rebel.
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Date: 2014-02-02 07:14 am (UTC)Reversing her R/Hr is one thing.
Reversing her beloved H/G would be a whole higher level, I think.
After she came out with the ridiculous 'Harry and Ginny are soul mates' nonsense she twice, as I recall, made off-the-cuff statements supporting that belief, entirely unsolicited and unprompted; "I really do think they are soul mates".
So I'll be interested to see the pro-H/Hr sentiment in this interview, separate from the anti-R/Hr component.
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Date: 2014-02-02 08:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-02 08:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-02 01:00 pm (UTC)As for 'soul mates', unless Quidditch and being a dick makes you soul mates, then it's just the lust monster talking again.
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Date: 2014-02-02 06:08 pm (UTC)Just a weird thought. Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning.
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Date: 2014-02-02 08:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-02 09:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-03 01:09 am (UTC)Of course pairing her off with Harry isn't that much better. Personally, I think that Hermione ought not to marry anybody one day before she's 30 -- and probably not to anyone who knew her in school, either.
Although I have read a couple of convincing Hermione/Nevilles. And even one or two rather decent Hermione/Lucius fics, although with those, both principals have usually been heavily tweaked from canon. And those (and SS/HG) were always playing in sandboxes that no one ever even *tried* to convince themselves that Rowling ever intended.
I could believe that she may have been dipping into the fanfic. We know she's got a problem with letting go of that creation. She might very well want to see what other people are doing with *her* property.
What I suspect could be more to the point is that she's finally grocking that the real fans, the ones who built the fandom, were never the kids, and no one but the kids ever really took her word for who ended up paired off. She paired her characters off the way kids would have paired them off based on the first two books. Yes, the film insistence of treating Hermione as a heroine rather than a sidekick distorted that, but it wasn't all about film distortion. To anyone over the age of about 15, there was an underlying disconnect with the original pairings. And I do believe that what we got at the end was the original pairings. The whole train wreck of book 7 was an attempt to force the story arc back into a box which it no longer fit.
But yeah, she had the idea that Harry would save Ginny in Book 2 and then grow up to marry her, according to tradition, and that would leave the sidekicks free to pair off as well. But it's like having thought of it, it was automatically a fait acompli and she hardly did squat toward writing anything that would develop it into the series. Consequently, neither pairing comes across as convincing.
Much of the problem is that Rowling doesn't tend to think beyond a certain point in the planning process, and when she found a formula that worked for her she fell into the "one-note characterization" trap. Ron and Hermionie squabbling with each other worked for the first few books, while they were still young kids. But apart from a few staring matches and "significant silences" they never seem to have done anything *but* squabble until Ron opened the Chamber and Hermione abruptly kissed him. We never actually saw them really working *together* toward *any* goal. They were two independant planets orbiting around Harry. We never got any convincing demonstration that they even *could* work together.
As for the epilogue; the epilogue existed only to showcase Harry as parent to a child that was Hogwarts-bound. And for that matter, only one *specific* child. James and Lily were roughly drafted in and could have been anyone. Indeed *everyone* in that epilogue could have been anyone apart from Harry and Albus Severus.
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Date: 2014-02-03 01:07 pm (UTC)In truth, I think the reason Hermione is so often paired with Sev in fanfic is that he's the only seemingly intelligent guy on hand. Which tends to the ridiculous - it isn't as if there are not other intelligent guys in canon. They are just either not fleshed out - probably practically any Ravenclaw or several of the Slytherins - Blaise or Theodore if not Draco. And of course, the Slytherins HAD to be discounted simply for being Slytherins.
Really, based on the 'fighting' concept Draco was almost as likely as Ron - if not for the idea that she would have been 'forbidden fruit' for Draco. Come to think of it, that was actually probably what was behind a great many Draco/Hermione fics.
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Date: 2014-02-03 03:02 pm (UTC)Post-war Hermione/Draco can have both of them becoming older and wiser together.
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Date: 2014-02-03 08:58 pm (UTC)But a more interesting question about this, which I’ve seen floating about the Internet as well, is why this is JKR’s regret about Hermione. It’s not about her character and it’s not about her decisions regarding her family or friends or career. It’s about her love life. No matter whether you like or dislike Hermione, you have to concede that she was not solely defined by romance. Many fans, myself included, looked up to her because of her love of school, her academic prowess, the fact that she saved the world and Harry and Ron’s lives so many times that it warranted people asking why she wasn’t the protagonist instead. But now people are only talking about Hermione in regards to her love life.
And as for Hermione’s marriage being JKR’s regret…is that the only one? She doesn’t regret having Hermione scar Marietta’s face, put Ron in the hospital wing (although that could be included in her regret about the Ron/Hermione pairing), Obliviate her parents and send them off to Australia, Confund Cormac, or any of the other awful things that Hermione has done in the series? It’s only her love life that warrants mention and regret?
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Date: 2014-02-03 09:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-03 11:30 pm (UTC)Someone else (although it might have been the same poster in a later post) pointed out that if Hermione *had* to pair off with either Ron or Harry, then Ron probably *was* the better choice. At least Ron fancied her (which Harry absolutely never did).
And for that matter, Harry never found her any fun to be around, either. The narration comes right out and says as much in PoA, and he never once at any point in the series seems to have thought any differently on the subject. Terribly sueful person to know. But no fun by his standards.
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Date: 2014-02-04 12:30 am (UTC)Truthfully, Hermione is the one that acts like a real friend. The boys however, never really seem to treat her as if she's more than homework help. At least not until Ron's jealousy acts up.
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Date: 2014-02-04 12:47 am (UTC)But no. They don't really treat her at all well. And she to all appearances puts up with it in order to have any friends at all.
And, Word, regarding Harry's skill at being a friend to anybody. Despite all of Albus's flannel-mouthed flattery on how Harry's great advantage over Tom was Love, it's made fairly obvious that the boy has serious attachment problems. Not as bad as Tom, certainly, but still...
In the last of my Potterverse essays I finally concluded that the power that Voldemort "knew not" was nothing more or less than the power to master the Elder Wand.
No one else had ever done it. Certainly none of the living holders of that wand ever admitted to having the mastery of it. I think that none of its holders *ever* actually had it. Death may have handed it over to Antioc Peverill, but it was always still *his*.
And Draco Malfoy had nothing to do with it.
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Date: 2014-02-04 12:51 am (UTC)That's largely the case, sadly. A lot of the material for H/Hr, particularly from the early books, was all one-way. Hermione really *worked* at the friendship. She had a 'saving harry thing'. But Harry rarely reciprocated to the same extent.
At least in the early books. The bulk of book #5 was 'The Harry and Hermione show'. In book 6 I was pleasantly surprised at the efforts Harry took to be a good friend to both Ron *and* Hermione; he made the choice to support both of them while they carrying on with Rowling's asinine 'jealousy flags real love' programme.
But then in book 7 he was a total bastiche when it came to the tent scene, leaving Hermione to sob herself to sleep night after night with almost no comfort coming from her 'best friend'.
There *were* some slabs of true friendship from Harry; enough for fanfic authors to use. :-) And heaps from Hermione, of course. Enough overall to have kept the H/Hr fans happy over the years.
(Their number now including one J. Rowling, it appears. :-))
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Date: 2014-02-04 12:55 am (UTC)I think there's substantial grounds for this; on a H/Hr site a fan mentioned this too. Apparently Rowling's first notion of the overall story arc was to have Harry found by Mr. Granger and raised as a foster-brother to Hermione. I vaguely recall hearing about that over the years myself, I think it's true.
So a lot of that 'sibling' context might have stuck in her head when she was writing the books?
But they *weren't* siblings, so we H/Hr shippers were able to take that closeness - such as it was - and extrapolate it for our own ends. :-)
At least Ron fancied her (which Harry absolutely never did).
Could have been so easy for Rowling to change ... but yeah, in the canon it's clear he never did. "Like a sister", right?
And for that matter, Harry never found her any fun to be around, either. The narration comes right out and says as much in PoA -
GoF? When Ron splits from Harry over the latter's selection as a 'Champion'?
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Date: 2014-02-04 12:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-04 03:15 am (UTC)It's particularly silly in Harry's case for him to marry immediately. He's filthy rich and has lived a pressure cooker existence his entire life. It would make perfect sense for him to take some of his money, travel the world, and relax while he decided what he wanted to do with the rest of his life.
I know Rowling likes Jane Austen, but Austen's books take place almost 200 years before HP does. It was reasonable back then for people, particularly women, to be obsessed with getting married ASAP. The life expectancy was only about 35, and women had no career options. Austen's books accurately reflect the culture of their time. HP does not. It's stuck in a time warp.
That's even more apparent when you compare HP with with its contemporary series that are aimed at the same age group and have similar plot arcs, such as Percy Jackson and Warriors. In the original Percy Jackson series, Percy goes on adventures and fights evil with his friends, Annabeth and Grover, but there's no romance between them. I kept expecting there to be, but it never came up.
In Warriors, Fireheart and Sandstorm are first rivals, then friends. At the end of the first series, they are edging towards romance, but they don't actually get together until the follow-up book, Firestar's Quest.
Rowling's unhealthy hangup about marrying everybody off can't be put down to her age because I'm several years older than she is, and I think it's ridiculous. Nor is it because she's female because Warriors is written by women. It's just some problem of her own.
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Date: 2014-02-04 05:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-04 07:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-05 03:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-05 04:53 am (UTC)I came to the series as an adult after having read MUCH better children's literature.
I did think Harry and Hermione would pair off at first. But then I thought it might be nice for her and Draco to pair off. Yes, there wasn't much in the series at all to support it as I recall. But it might have made great drama. It would have been a reversal of what happened with Lily and Snape. It would have forced her to get to know a pureblood and learn firsthand if their really DID have a plausible reason for their hostility to muggleborns. It would have made some good drama.
I also think Rowling herself laid the groundwork for a Harry / Luna pairing. Ginny never made sense to me. But Luna shows up right when Harry REALLY needs a friend who gets it. And he takes her to Slughorn's party. True he does it as friends but Luna seems to be deeper than his other friends - including Hermione - so I could see it. Plus, Luna has money and social standing so the doesn't NEED Harry. She won't be tempted to USE him.
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Date: 2014-02-05 07:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-05 08:05 am (UTC)That seems about perfect.
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Date: 2014-02-05 12:15 pm (UTC)What makes you think she has money or social standing? I don't see the Quibbler as much of a money-maker. I tend to see it as probably more of a drain on their finances, but something Xeno feels so passionately about that he feels he MUST get the info out despite that. And I tend to think he was seen as just as 'looney' as his daughter.
I certainly cannot see him as invited to higher society socials. And IF Luna really had a 'social position' wouldn't Sluggy have invited her to the Christmas party directly, instead of Harry needing to do so?
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Date: 2014-02-05 05:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-05 09:51 pm (UTC)However, unlike Hermione, Luna NEVER compromised herself to curry favor with her peers. Given that she is willing to speak uncomfortable truths to them instead of kissing up like Hermione, I suspect she wouldn't have remained friends with them either if she truly disapproved of what they were doing (if there was a successful cover-up of how seriously Harry injured Draco in the Sectumsempra incident, then we needn't hold it against Luna that she didn't drop Harry over it. She can't judge behavior she doesn't know about).
Harry desperately needed to learn that kind of integrity. Getting closer to Luna would have been a good way to do it, and I agree that there were a few hints in canon that could have lead to something more if JKR had chosen to go there.
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Date: 2014-02-06 02:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-06 02:37 am (UTC)On the other hand, I think I see a plot bunny hopping around in the distance with Sluggy's invitation list in its mouth...* grin *...
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Date: 2014-02-06 05:04 am (UTC)Er, truth hurts?
Nothing worse than an utterfly unflattering mirror, eh?
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Date: 2014-02-07 04:17 pm (UTC)But this was a downright lie. Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend.
Useful company (she was spending her time drilling him on his Accio, not on her homework), but not enjoyed.
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Date: 2014-02-07 10:08 pm (UTC)But that's okay. The next couple of books cancelled that out totally!
Interesting that in the full Rowling interview - a transcript was doing the rounds 9+ hours ago - Rowling throws a crumb to the faithful disciples she'd betrayed with her conversion to H/Hr by saying that Hermione has a need for a 'funny man'.
She seems to have forgotten how often Ron was a source of *unhappiness* for Hermione.
Anyway, kids need laughter but mature adults need so much more. Sorry Ron, Hermione's not for you.
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Date: 2014-02-09 02:36 am (UTC)Did Hermione every find Ron funny?
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Date: 2014-02-09 02:49 am (UTC)I don't know. That's a good question; either 'yes', which just lets Rowling's comment remain afloat, or 'no', which will sink it. I'll have to ask.
I've been posing the same question regarding Harry - did Hermione ever find HIM funny - in a couple of places. I got a reply this morning saying yes, one such scene was in HBP:
Actually, he made her laugh in HBP, of all books, since that was basically the nail in the coffin for us Harmony shippers. He and Hermione were in the library joking about Filch and Madam Pinz being in love because of all the love potions being used, and Pinz actually threw them out of the library for laughing too loud. :)
Which makes me happy, neatly countering this one last straw that Rowling threw to the drowning R/Hr fans.But if it's also true that Hermione never laughed at Ron that makes things even more solid. A bit harder to prove a negative though.
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Date: 2014-02-09 05:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-09 07:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-02-23 07:45 pm (UTC)JK really need to put in more of that. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Hr/R is fighting.
We needed to see more of Ron being the one who could get her to relax, laugh and stop taking things so seriously when she become to stress out.
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Date: 2014-02-23 09:28 pm (UTC)As is the case so often with HP those readers who desire any particular depth or meaning have to go inventing it for themselves, inserting it in the space between Rowling's words ... because she jolly well didn't write it!
I dare say the R/Hr shippers - are there any left? :-) - believe that it was just one long stream of laughter between Ron and Hermione every time Harry left the room. :-)
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Date: 2014-03-10 08:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-03-10 09:13 pm (UTC)Personally, I feel like this was just the last jab at the Ron fandom, whom she never liked and was jealous towards due to his popularity over Harry and Hermione, especially int he earlier days. She doesn't really mean what she's saying. She just loaths that Ron got to be the 'winner' in the end. Look at how she concentrates on how Ron is the guilty party and not Hermione, when she's a more horrid character than Ron could ever be (Umbridge, the whole jealousy plot, setting the birds on Ron, not a single good word for him in the later books). JKR has a penchant for this pettiness, the Ron fandom (whom she considered killing because of this), but also the Draco fandom (lol receding hairline lol and no plot importance afer book 6) and Snape fandom (no comments... just, no comments). This speaks of JKR's character and the way she likes to lord over people's opinions with what she never wrote. A mediocre writer through and through.