JKR and tears
Mar. 16th, 2014 10:25 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
cholovescedric.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
deathtocapslockHi there everyone,
I used to be just ChoCedric, it has been a while since I've posted anything on this community, but I really needed to vent, and you guys are a great group of people to rant to, because I know you won't put me down, tell me that I'm just a big baby, or that my ideas are stupid.
I know I've said this on here before, but no matter how much time passes, I just can't seem to get over how JKR deals with emotion. It is often the case that when we are reading a book, we are told that it is good to think like the protagonist does, and it is definitely true in this case, what with JKR's comments about how the sun rises and sets on the saintlike Harry Potter.
As you all know by my username and by rants I've posted on this community before, this is particularly glaring to me in the example of Cho Chang. We are told to view her grief in a very negative light because a. she cries a lot, and b. she wants to know exactly what Cedric faced in his last moments. Because we, the readers, know what happened to him, we should just accept that others, those who knew and truly loved Cedric, don't need to have it explained to them. In the real world, if a teenage girl's boyfriend's corpse was dumped on a sports field with everyone ogling it and screaming, his blank, lifeless eyes staring into the sky, she would want to know why. And she'd hunt for answers, too. She wouldn't just wait until St. Albus Dumbledore the All-Knowing told her what had happened, and anyone who questioned St. Harry Potter, in the real world, would be considered reasonable people rather than evil incarnate.
I also honestly think that Rowling's whole issue with showing grief by crying is unfortunately something that many people in our society agree with, simply because of how Cho's behavior in OOtP was demonized by so many in the fandom. There are so many fans of Harry Potter that I talk to who say things like, "Oh, I couldn't stand Cho! She was such a bitch for crying all over poor Harry like that!" Those comments make me soooooo pissed! I think this is because so many in this day and age consider crying a weakness. God, could anything be more untrue? Granted, there's a time and a place to cry, but Cho was mainly doing it in bathrooms, and I think that's the perfect place! Yeah, maybe the outburst in Madame Puddifoot's was not quite the setting, but this was after months and months of her not knowing whether he'd suffered, whether he was in pain before he died, exactly what he'd been through. So I wholeheartedly understand why it happened.
When I mention that she and Cedric could have been very much in love (and I think this could definitely be the case, considering how lost and sad Cho was) I get rebuttals like, "But she's only a teenager! She doesn't even know what love is!" And that, too, is soooooo unbelievably untrue. I am 27 years old, and do you know how old I was when I dated my first serious boyfriend? I was 12! And we were very serious for many years. Believe me, if things hadn't worked out like they did, like the fact that he started drinking very heavily once he turned 21, and by heavily I mean so heavily that I was afraid he'd end up in hospital, I would be married to him today, if he'd continued to care for me as much as I cared for him, I loved him that much. He was everything to me. Even when our relationship started going to the dogs, I stuck it out for another 11 months because I wasn't ready to give up on him, I thought it was just a phase he was going through. And no, don't worry, he wasn't physically abusive. He just started getting very possessive and very jealous of who I hung out with, even if it was just with my sister, for Merlin's sake! But we'd had so much history together that I wasn't ready to let him go when things started to go downhill.
But that's enough about me. What I'm trying to say is that it's not unheard of for people who meet and fall in love very young to stay together. Granted, it's not unbelievably common, but it does happen. So the "you can't fall in love as a teenager!" thing just doesn't wash.
Please tell me any other thoughts you have on this! I know we've talked about this before, but do you guys agree that it's to do with the society we are growing up in that JKR considers tears really, really bad and seething, frothing rage really, really good? How do you think Harry would have reacted if Ginny's cold, lifeless body had been dropped in front of him?
I used to be just ChoCedric, it has been a while since I've posted anything on this community, but I really needed to vent, and you guys are a great group of people to rant to, because I know you won't put me down, tell me that I'm just a big baby, or that my ideas are stupid.
I know I've said this on here before, but no matter how much time passes, I just can't seem to get over how JKR deals with emotion. It is often the case that when we are reading a book, we are told that it is good to think like the protagonist does, and it is definitely true in this case, what with JKR's comments about how the sun rises and sets on the saintlike Harry Potter.
As you all know by my username and by rants I've posted on this community before, this is particularly glaring to me in the example of Cho Chang. We are told to view her grief in a very negative light because a. she cries a lot, and b. she wants to know exactly what Cedric faced in his last moments. Because we, the readers, know what happened to him, we should just accept that others, those who knew and truly loved Cedric, don't need to have it explained to them. In the real world, if a teenage girl's boyfriend's corpse was dumped on a sports field with everyone ogling it and screaming, his blank, lifeless eyes staring into the sky, she would want to know why. And she'd hunt for answers, too. She wouldn't just wait until St. Albus Dumbledore the All-Knowing told her what had happened, and anyone who questioned St. Harry Potter, in the real world, would be considered reasonable people rather than evil incarnate.
I also honestly think that Rowling's whole issue with showing grief by crying is unfortunately something that many people in our society agree with, simply because of how Cho's behavior in OOtP was demonized by so many in the fandom. There are so many fans of Harry Potter that I talk to who say things like, "Oh, I couldn't stand Cho! She was such a bitch for crying all over poor Harry like that!" Those comments make me soooooo pissed! I think this is because so many in this day and age consider crying a weakness. God, could anything be more untrue? Granted, there's a time and a place to cry, but Cho was mainly doing it in bathrooms, and I think that's the perfect place! Yeah, maybe the outburst in Madame Puddifoot's was not quite the setting, but this was after months and months of her not knowing whether he'd suffered, whether he was in pain before he died, exactly what he'd been through. So I wholeheartedly understand why it happened.
When I mention that she and Cedric could have been very much in love (and I think this could definitely be the case, considering how lost and sad Cho was) I get rebuttals like, "But she's only a teenager! She doesn't even know what love is!" And that, too, is soooooo unbelievably untrue. I am 27 years old, and do you know how old I was when I dated my first serious boyfriend? I was 12! And we were very serious for many years. Believe me, if things hadn't worked out like they did, like the fact that he started drinking very heavily once he turned 21, and by heavily I mean so heavily that I was afraid he'd end up in hospital, I would be married to him today, if he'd continued to care for me as much as I cared for him, I loved him that much. He was everything to me. Even when our relationship started going to the dogs, I stuck it out for another 11 months because I wasn't ready to give up on him, I thought it was just a phase he was going through. And no, don't worry, he wasn't physically abusive. He just started getting very possessive and very jealous of who I hung out with, even if it was just with my sister, for Merlin's sake! But we'd had so much history together that I wasn't ready to let him go when things started to go downhill.
But that's enough about me. What I'm trying to say is that it's not unheard of for people who meet and fall in love very young to stay together. Granted, it's not unbelievably common, but it does happen. So the "you can't fall in love as a teenager!" thing just doesn't wash.
Please tell me any other thoughts you have on this! I know we've talked about this before, but do you guys agree that it's to do with the society we are growing up in that JKR considers tears really, really bad and seething, frothing rage really, really good? How do you think Harry would have reacted if Ginny's cold, lifeless body had been dropped in front of him?
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Date: 2014-03-17 06:18 pm (UTC)I do think we need to also realize however, that traditionally the UK has treated crying as something to only be done in private. We see this in the books a few times - once Albus looks away as Harry cries - to give him privacy. And if I recall correctly, Harry is embarrassed to be present while Remus cries, because it is supposed to be a private emotion. Private - not necessarily weak.
It is interesting to also think about the fact that this was also a nation that took mourning to a point (in the victorian era) that it had very specific, prescribed modes of expression in public. Black wreathes on the door, black armbands on men, covered mirrors, locks of the deceased's hair woven etc. to the point that there were strict rules as to when a woman could switch from wearing black to wearing grey or lavender and an entire genre of jewelry specific to a time of mourning. Despite these public displays of mourning, they were still preferably to not supposed to be seen crying in public. It's seems to be all part of the traditional british 'stiff-upper lip'.
Of course the brits were not the only ones to do this - check out the scene in 'Gone With the Wind' where Scarlett raises a scandal by dancing at a ball before the required time has passed.
Needless to say, that doesn't mean no one ever cried or mourned. And it seems possible that this was also something of a class distinction. If you read books from before the 20th century (dealing with british characters) and a man is nearby when a woman 'of quality' starts to cry, he should pass her a handkerchief and then more or less turn his back on her and pretend he doesn't notice - pretty much as we see Albus do for Harry, so I'll assume the same would have been done for males.