Retrieval of Modified Memories
Jul. 13th, 2014 09:48 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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deathtocapslockOn my InsaneJournal duj pointed out how odd that both Morfin Gaunt and Hokey died not long after Albus Dumbledore managed to retrieve from them true memories that had been modified or magically suppressed. Morfin died within weeks (if we believe Albus) from when Albus extracted the suppressed memory with difficulty. And by the time Albus traced Hokey and extracted the memory, Hokey's life was almost over. How fortunate that he got those two memories just in the nick of time! Or is it?
Neither Morfin nor Hokey were in sound mind by then. I don't think they could have consented to Albus' tampering with their minds (nor do I believe he cared about their consent). There is one more canon example of extracting a suppressed memory by force: Tom did that to Bertha Jorkins. He tells the Death Eaters "but the means I used to break the Memory Charm upon her were powerful, and when I had extracted all useful information from her, her mind and body were both damaged beyond repair. She had now served her purpose. I could not possess her. I disposed of her."
Were Morfin and Hokey damaged in the same manner as Bertha Jorkins was? Is such damage inevitable when one retrieves suppressed memories by force? (Bob Ogden also died after Albus had obtained his memory. We don't know how long after, nor do we know anything about the circumstances of their encounter.)
If so, that would be the true reason Albus wanted Harry to persuade Horace into giving him the true memory of his conversation with young Tom (rather than obtaining it by force himself).
And maybe that is why nobody (to our knowledge) went to track down Gilderoy Lockhart's victims. They were beyond help already, the moment Gilderoy was done with them.
And now consider that wizards routinely use memory modification to protect the secrecy of their world. How many memory-modified non-magicals are walking around? If a wizard with any knowledge of Legilimency were to find any of them and suspect there was a magically-suppressed memory hidden in their minds they are toast. That includes, of course, a couple named Wilkins.
Of course we know that voluntary retrieval of memories is harmless (as far as we can tell) - we see Albus, Severus, and Horace retrieving their own memories voluntarily, with no apparent change to their mental acuity or their personalities. Is there any evidence that a suppressed memory can be restored safely?
Neither Morfin nor Hokey were in sound mind by then. I don't think they could have consented to Albus' tampering with their minds (nor do I believe he cared about their consent). There is one more canon example of extracting a suppressed memory by force: Tom did that to Bertha Jorkins. He tells the Death Eaters "but the means I used to break the Memory Charm upon her were powerful, and when I had extracted all useful information from her, her mind and body were both damaged beyond repair. She had now served her purpose. I could not possess her. I disposed of her."
Were Morfin and Hokey damaged in the same manner as Bertha Jorkins was? Is such damage inevitable when one retrieves suppressed memories by force? (Bob Ogden also died after Albus had obtained his memory. We don't know how long after, nor do we know anything about the circumstances of their encounter.)
If so, that would be the true reason Albus wanted Harry to persuade Horace into giving him the true memory of his conversation with young Tom (rather than obtaining it by force himself).
And maybe that is why nobody (to our knowledge) went to track down Gilderoy Lockhart's victims. They were beyond help already, the moment Gilderoy was done with them.
And now consider that wizards routinely use memory modification to protect the secrecy of their world. How many memory-modified non-magicals are walking around? If a wizard with any knowledge of Legilimency were to find any of them and suspect there was a magically-suppressed memory hidden in their minds they are toast. That includes, of course, a couple named Wilkins.
Of course we know that voluntary retrieval of memories is harmless (as far as we can tell) - we see Albus, Severus, and Horace retrieving their own memories voluntarily, with no apparent change to their mental acuity or their personalities. Is there any evidence that a suppressed memory can be restored safely?
no subject
Date: 2014-07-16 01:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-21 08:38 am (UTC)She did read / research memory modification (used later in book on those DE in the cafe. Btw, did they have their memories restored?) in preparation of goign on the run. That might have given her the idea for spinning that story to Harry "WiFi" Potter. So, maybe she was so nervous when she had to obliviate those DE because she was doing it for the first time?
If she knew she was able to give her parents the memories of different lives then she should have been sure she can just erase DE's memories of seeing the trio.
The second option I see is that Snape did the same things as with Mundungus Fletcher "getting the idea" for 7 Potters.
I just don't think that Moody, Shacklebolt or anybody else from the Order would give a damn about Hermione's parents.
To me Snape is the only one who might have cared enough to do anything to protect them.
So, confound the parents into taking a long holiday somewhere (under their-own names and far from Australia) and then confound the little overachiever and know-it-all into thinking she gave them new identities.
She is arrogant enough to think she can do it, her stupid little frineds will be happy to believe her and ignorant enough to not question it and older order members won't even think to ask about her parents.
He might have even given her enough knowledge to pull being able to do Memory Charm later.
no subject
Date: 2014-08-17 06:40 pm (UTC)