Minerva the Strict but Fair

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

I just realized something about the teacher I’m most disappointed to be disillusioned by.

Remember that detention Minerva gave in the first book to the firsties she caught out after curfew?


What she thought at the time was going on, was Harry and Hermione had suckered Draco and Neville into believing “some cock and bull story about a dragon.”

She very properly (given her understanding of the matter) docked the most points from her own house, since in her view Harry and Hermione had not only broken a school rule themselves (and put themselves into danger), they’d led others into doing the same.

But then when it came time for the joint detention for all four curfew-breakers, there are two things odd about it.

One was, if they were being punished for leaving their dorms at night and putting themselves into danger, it seems odd to punish them by sending them into the extremely dangerous Forbidden Forest at night—to track a unicorn-killer, no less! I mean, presumably Minerva didn’t expect Hagrid to be so stupid as to break up the party and leave two of the children unprotected except for Fang, but still!

Still, I suppose that might be defended as giving them a taste of what they’d seemed to want. You want to be out at night running foolish risks? Okay, see how you like it!

But the second thing is… well, when Snape gave the would-be sword-stealers a detention in the Forbidden Forest with Hagrid, we readers understood it to be more of a reward than a punishment. For those particular students. Because we knew that the students in question all got on rather well with Hagrid and would be treated well by him, and further that those students had all ventured into the Forest on their own.

Back to the detention Minerva assigned. Harry and Hermione were Hagrid’s personal friends, and Neville was a fellow Gryffindor. Hagrid was vociferously prejudiced in favor of his own house—and equally openly prejudiced against one of the others. Remind me, which? So giving their joint detention to Hagrid to supervise… well, it’s canon that Hagrid treated Harry and Hermione with open friendliness, not as a disciplinarian overseeing a punishment.

And Minerva must have expected that.

Comments

“Strict but Fair” Minerva

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

You’re right: sending wandering Gryffs into the forest to get a scary taste of real adventure (though preferably with more careful instructions to Hagrid about keeping an eye on them) makes sense as a punishment from “strict but fair” McGonagall. But sending Draco makes sense only if JKR’s purpose is to demonstrate what a worthless coward Draco is compared to Heroic Harry and his friends.

How about this instead?

“As for you, Mr Malfoy: Professor Snape will not be pleased when I tell him that one of his Slytherins was so lacking in cunning as to be tricked by a pack of my Gryffindors. The others can have the adventure they wanted so badly and see how well they like it, but I will leave your punishment to the creative imagination of your own Head of House. He will find a way to remind you how little he enjoys having his students embarrass him before another staff member.”

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't it be read by Harry as "Draco won't be punished at all, because Snape will not punish anybody from his House; so McGonagall favors Slytherin"?
Even if it is not true and she does not.
Minerva could be choosing between two bad options that night: either Hagrid will put a Slytherin in greater danger than the little Gryffs, or her little Gryffs will stop trusting her.
I think her bet could be like this: loosing trust of First Year Gryffs means, I will not be able to guide them for the rest of their schooling. Putting Draco together with children Hagrid loves will mean Hagrid will take care about H+H - and Draco (and Neville) have their chance. Besides, it's I who is giving the lesson, and my lesson is, just you dare. Draco will be safe - he should be cunning enough to stay close to those Hagrid cares for.

I don't see Minerva as always right, sometimes she is too quick to think about things twice, but I hope I still can see her as good...

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

I was imagining, doubtless foolishly, that Harry and Company would believe Minerva when she said the Snape did not like being embarrassed by his own students, and would pay back Draco for making him look bad in front of the Head of Gryffindor. It could have been an eye-opener for the Gryffs, who see Snape only in class, and haven't really known him long enough to have iron-clad opinions. How much actual favoritism has he shown to Draco at this point in the series? I can remember only the compliment about stewed slugs, but my memory is hardly flawless.

Harry and crew are so blinkered and lacking in imagination that they would doubtless miss an implication that Slytherin punishments are given in-house, even when they were out-right told so by their own Head. After all, they are so much more perceptive than stupid old McGonagall, who has been Snape's colleague and administrative superior for almost as long as they've been alive, and might be expected to know about his disciplinary practices.

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Don't forget that Minerva was a generation older than Severus and actually taught him for seven years, so she'd basically known him his whole life, even though she might not have punished James & co. accordingly.

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Were Harry a normal child and were there no prejudice in the sense of "Slytherin is always evil", it could work.
Hermione would understand it. Hermione knows that her parents can be ashamed of her and that it is bad.
I'm not sure how much Minerva knew about Harry and the Dursleys. On the other hand, she has seen some belittling of Severus and his Slytherin ("Slytherin is evil, Snape is unfair, Snape never punishes a Slytherin" etc). Maybe she expects (not that she approves of it, just that she knows it happens) her Gryffindor prefects would hammer this the newcomers into heads during their first few weeks at the school.

On the other hand, did Minerva send them to catch that evil thing who was killing the unicorns directly, or did she only send them to Hagrid to the Forest (and hoped Hagrid will not be stupid enough to go with them after the evil killer)? I don't remember well.
The first was stupid (because she could have known Hagrid at this time well enough), but not evil. The second, well...

On the third hand, it seems to be norm in this school not to care about safety of the students too much. ("Don't do this" - and that is all. "Ah, you did after all? Then don't complain." Like, "don't go to the Forbidden Forest.") Severus is the only one who cares, if I recall correctly.
Maybe, from this point of view, to send a Slytherin to Hagrid means to teach Hagrid a lesson - via Severus?

On the fourth hand (I have weird number of hands, haven't I? :-) ), maybe it was intended as a lesson for the children: "Don't fight. You can survive only if you cooperate."

Or is Minerva somebody who just doesn't care?
I don't know...

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[dorea-ysleen.livejournal.com]

I think sending a bunch of first-years into the Forbidden Forest in the middle of the night to find something evil and powerful enough to kill unicorns is completely out of line, especially considering that their only protection was someone who, though physically strong, was magically mostly powerless and not exactly what you'd call responsible.

The fact that Harry and Hermione liked Hagrid enough to trust that they'd be save with him no matter what and therefore see this detention as more of an exciting outing than a punishment shouldn't prevent Minerva from realising how dangerous it was. She can also be expected to know her students well enough by now to anticipate their reactions to her punishments (if she bothers to think about it), so yes, this could be interpreted as glaring favouritism.

I'm not a fan of singling out one person or separating punishment for the same incident by house, as that just furthers the existing prejudices and isolation. An appropriate punishment would have been one that was equally unpleasant to all them without putting them in danger, for example, "As you don't care about sleeping, you should report to Mr. Filch for whatever nasty, boring manual labor he needs help with that goes faster if you all work together at 6:00 am every Saturday for the rest of term." Now that would give them something to bond over and enough time to do it in :-)

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

Sending kids into the forest at night to hunt a unicorn-killer is idiotic, but that's JKR's fault for not coming up with a better way for Harry to encounter Quirrelmort in dangerous form. Making it out as Minerva's idea of a Gryff-worthy punishment twists some sense into it, especially if monster-hunting (as opposed to taking the kids a hundred yards into the dark woods and scaring them a bit) was entirely Hagrid's idea. Hagrid really has no notion of what is and isn't dangerous for human children.

Separating out kids for punishment by House may not be consistent with modern muggle child-rearing practices, but it fits Hogwarts culture. It was also my notion that Minerva was letting her Gryffs know that Snape DOES discipline his Slytherins, but they never see it because it happens in-house. My headcanon is that the entire House gathers in their common room every Sunday afternoon for discipline to be meted out--usually some form of humiliation.

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

So the questions is whose idea was it to send the kids into the forest? Minerva, Hagrid or Dumbledore?

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[oryx_leucoryx]

Minerva signed the letter stating they were to meet Mr Filch at the entrance hall at 11 pm, and Filch knew they were supposed to go into the Forest with Hagrid. So whosever idea it was originally, Minerva knew and bears responsibility for the decision.

Re: “Strict but Fair” Minerva

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

And Minerva was the one who left Neville stranded in the hallway with a crazy mass murder (or so everyone believed) on the loose.