[identity profile] sweettalkeress.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock
Wow—there is so much WTFery in this chapter. So much.

Parvati: So, Hermione, what do you think of the fact that we’re taking Divination with a centaur now?

Hermione: He’s nothing but a horse to me.

Lavender: Isn’t that really offensive?*

Hermione: Nonsense—I’m the main character so nothing I say could possibly be construed as offensive!

Harry: By the way, how is Trelawney doing?

Lavender: You of all people want to know that?

Harry: Hey, I’m not totally self-absorbed, you know.

Parvati: Could’ve fooled us.

Lavender: She’s not taking all this well.

Hermione: By the way, I’ll bet Umbridge is already plotting her revenge over this. She’s not happy that Dumbledore hired a teacher without telling her—and one that’s part human too.**

[They go to Divination…]

Ron: Hey, why isn’t anyone going to the classroom?

Parvati: They got a different classroom so Firenze wouldn’t have to climb stairs, duh!

Ron: I can’t believe I didn’t notice that. Don’t I feel stupid!

Harry: You should be used to this by now.

[They get to the class, which has been converted to a woodland setup]

Firenze: By the way, I feel compelled to inform you all that I’ve been banished from my herd for agreeing to work for a human. This will become important later. So, anyway, today we’re going to study the position of the stars and planets.

Parvati: Oh, you mean like we were doing with Professor Trelawney?

Firenze: No, that’s the inferior human way. We’re going to do it my way, which I trust you’ll find far more reliable.

Parvati: Well you don’t need to be rude.

Firenze: By the way, if you take away one thing from this class, it’s that nothing is foolproof—not even if we centaurs have been doing it for thousands of years. So, anyway, we’re currently at a period of calm between two wars. Hint hint.

[After class…]

Firenze: By the way, Harry Potter, I want you to speak to Hagrid and tell him to stop doing a thing.

Harry: A thing? What thing?

Firenze: That’s for me to know and you to find out. Just…tell him to stop doing the thing.

Harry: Well I can certainly try…. If that awful Umbridge stops breathing down his neck.

Firenze: What was that?

Harry: Oh, nothing….

[It takes a while but he eventually does get an audience with Hagrid.]

Harry: So, Hagrid, Firenze told me, to tell you, to stop doing a thing.

Hagrid: [innocently] A thing? What could he possibly mean by a thing?

Harry: I don’t know. But he told me that it was dangerous and you had to stop it. It’s only going to make you look worse for Umbridge if you keep it up, whatever it is, and she’s already sacked one person!

Hagrid: My mind is made up—I will do the thing even if it kills me.

Harry: If it kills you?!

Hagrid: Never you worry your pretty little head—I have this all under control.

Harry: Honestly, you’re hopeless!

[Meanwhile, the DA members can do a Patronus charm now!]

Harry: So…group orgy time?

Hermione: Look at me—I can do one! I don’t see too many others doing one!

[Just then, Dobby bursts in]

Dobby: Harry, Harry! You’ve been discovered!

Harry: Oh, no! We must get away, now!

[They all exit the room as fast as they can]

Harry: By the way, Dobby, I order you not to tell anyone you were helping me.

Dobby: That works for me. [Departs]

[Harry tries to run away but is apprehended by Draco]

Draco: Umbridge, Umbridge! I’ve caught Harry!

Umbridge: Oh, good! Now I get to really torture him!

Harry: You weren’t torturing me before?

Umbridge: I can do things to you that would make everything you experienced so far seem tame!

Harry: Worse than the “Draco Sinister” incident?

Umbridge: You’ll be begging for a repeat performance by the time I’m through with you!

Harry: Noooooooo!

[Umbridge escorts Harry to Dumbledore’s office, where he’s waiting along with Fudge, Kingsley Shacklebolt, and some others]

Fudge: So you’re the one who’s been conducting illicit activities under my Umbridge’s nose?

Harry: Yes!

[Dumbledore looks at him funny]

Harry: I mean, no! I mean…aagh, Dumbledore, what should I tell these people?!

Umbridge: Well this is boring—I’ll go get the other witness.

[She fetches Marietta, who has the word “Sneak” scrawled across her face now]

Harry: It’s you! I knew you were trouble from the minute I first laid eyes on you!

Marietta: I’m trouble?! It’s not my fault my beautiful face is ruined!

Harry: You sold us to the enemy!

Marietta: I never wanted to be a part of your club in the first place! Your friends made me!

Umbridge: That’s quite enough of that!

Marietta: Sorry….

Umbridge: So, anyway, Marietta, what do you know about all this?

Marietta: Ah…just what I’ve told you. Honest.

Umbridge: So you don’t know anything about who was at this meeting you mentioned to me?

Marietta: No. Honest.

Umbridge: I don’t believe you.

Marietta: Oh, come now—my mother works for the Ministry. Would I lie to you?

Umbridge: …You’re a smart girl. Whatever, I have what I need now. Did you know that Willy Widdershins was the one who informed me that something suspicious was happening around this boy? He saw him meeting with his friends in the Hog’s Head!

McGonagall: So the Ministry made a deal with a criminal so he could avoid prosecution? Wow, our justice system is terrible when it’s not working in our favor.

Umbridge: Ahem, anyway, I’m sure that this was all a scheme on the part of Harry Potter to discredit me and do all sorts of illegal stuff, and I propose that he be tortured into insanity—I mean, suitably punished.

Dumbledore: You know, at the time the first meeting took place it was perfectly legal to start a school club with some friends.

Umbridge: Yes, but I made a decree. All meetings after that decree were still against the rules.

Dumbledore: And do you have any proof that there have been meetings since the decree? Except for this one?

Harry: Look! Kingsley Shacklebolt’s doing a mysterious thing!

Umbridge: Oh, quiet, you! Well, Marietta? Have there been?

Marietta: You know…I really don’t think there have.

Umbridge: What?

Marietta: You heard me.

Umbridge: I don’t believe you! How could you be protecting the girl who scarred up your face like that?!

Marietta: What girl? Who are you? Who am I? Why the hell does my face look like I’ve been to an Alan Rickman autograph session?!

Umbridge: This isn’t funny! Now tell me the truth about those meetings or else! [Grabs Marietta threateningly]

Marietta: What meetings?

Kingsley Shacklebolt: Dumbledore, don’t you think you should do something about Umbridge harassing your student?

Dumbledore: Oh, right. Umbridge, as the good and righteous headmaster of this school I hereby command you to let that poor girl alone!

Umbridge: Aww, and I was having such a good time manhandling her too! …But as I was saying, I do in fact have proof of this meeting because one of my beloved students found a list with everyone’s names on it!

Harry: Oh, no! Hermione’s awesome list has fallen into enemy hands!

Umbridge: What did you say?

Harry: Oh, nothing….

Fudge: It says here…they’ve named themselves Dumbledore’s Army.

Dumbledore: So there you have it! This was all my idea—Harry’s innocent!

Harry: What? But that’s not--!

Dumbledore: Well now you know what it’ll be like in the last two books, where everything you do really will be my idea!

Harry: You are impossible!

Fudge: Percy, are you recording this?

Percy: Of course—otherwise I wouldn’t be able to believe it was happening!

Fudge: Good, good—Dumbledore, I hereby place you under arrest and will have you sent to Azkaban!

Dumbledore: You say that as if I would ever follow the likes of you. No, instead I’m going to run away.

Fudge: I think not! Aurors, get him!

Dumbledore: Not today, Fudge! [He uses magic to knock them unconscious] Oh, by the way, it was Kingsley’s idea to modify Marietta’s memories without her knowledge or consent in order to protect you, Harry.

Harry: Wow, he’s so thoughtful!

Marietta: I feel so unclean!

Dumbledore: So…yeah, keep learning Occlumency, and I’ll see you in the next book, if not sooner. [Disappears]

Harry: My angel Dumbledore, gone for the rest of the book?! IT’S NOT FAAAAAAIR!

*A/N: Seriously, how in the hell is that NOT offensive? Why does the book treat it like it isn’t a big deal?!

**A/N: I’m sorry—it’s wrong of Umbridge to hate Firenze because he’s part human…but it’s perfectly okay for HERMIONE to compare him (unironically) to a FARM ANIMAL?!

Date: 2015-01-16 03:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dracasadiablo.livejournal.com
The "if you like horses" line is not only a terrible offensive garbage. It also makes no sense at all. That and the later "he's half human" lines are factually incorrect.

Centaurs are not "half horse, half human". They look like that, sure. But they aren't a product of some kind of horse / human paring. So, hating them for being "half human" makes no sense.

We can accept that Umbridge is a bigot who hate anybody who even looks like they could be "half human", and that to her hate is stronger then facts.

But Hermione? She is supposed to be a character who devours all books she comes in contact with and who loves being right. Love knowing things.
She either is she tragically wrong here or she want to make fun and to be nasty to other girls (seriously, she's more or less saying that by liking him they are interested in bestiality? Wtf?) more then she want to be right.

Of course, there's also a strong possibility that line (and the scene itself. Really, the only point of it is to make fun of Lavender and Parvati. It serves nothing else.) is there because JKR wanted her self insert to call attention on how "silly girls are".

And when you think about that, it really is very nasty.
Lavender and Parvati are teenage girls. Teenage girls in WW. How many chances did they have to see a handsome, muscled male chest and arms? It's not like they have TV or 'net. Firenze isn't human but even Harry went on about how handsome he is. So some curiosity is understandable.

In this scene Lavender and Parvati absolutely didn't sound like they were in romantically interested in a centaur.
So, to have Hermione (a character we are told is always right and who girls reading the books are inclined to like and try and imitate) attack other girls like this?
To shame them for a perfectly understandable behavior?

That really doesn't speak well about JKR.

Date: 2015-01-17 02:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
Despite her role as the "brain" of the Trio (not exactly a high bar) and her pretentions to liberalism, Hermione is only a schoolgirl. Sometimes one just fires off a zinger, without thinking of the implications, and I think that's what she was doing here. Humor can be nasty, and I don't expect anyone's political correctness to be flawless at all times. Especially not when the "humorists" involved are teenage girls who are mainly interested in poking at each other.

Date: 2015-01-17 04:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dracasadiablo.livejournal.com
I'm not sure that I agree.
Hermione is a "know it all". She is fanatical about learning everything she possibly can. She also enjoys lording her superior knowledge over other people.
She's also a believes in authority figures. Aside from teachers she sees as enemies or as useless; she tries her best to respect teachers.
Plus, she believes in DD's judgment.

Also, let us not forget that Firenze once saved Harry's life.* Hermione know that. I'm also pretty sure she read up on Centaurs after that incident.

So, consider it all together.
Knowledge that Centaurs aren't animals + respect due one's teachers + belief that DD knows what's he doing and that he hired a Centaur for a reason + knowing that that new teacher saved her best friend's life.
All that is less important then being nasty to two girls.

Still, my point is that, while she can be terribly petty, nasty and hurtful to others, imo, that line was very OOC.
I just don't see her being willing to put herself in the position where Lavender and Parvati can correct her and call her wrong.

To me that scene looks more like Jo taking potshots on "silly girls" then anything else.

*Random thought; are Life Debt to non-Wizards impossible?

Date: 2015-01-17 06:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
For me, it isn't just out of character, it's also inconsistent within the plot of the book. That is unless JKR is trying to imply here that Hermione didn't really know enough about centaurs to be aware of what she was doing leading Umbridge into the forest in search of the 'herd'.

I can somewhat see it as JKR giving Hermione an 'excuse' for what seems most likely to have been setting Umbridge up for rape (or at the very least some sort of hazing - tho' the implications are clear to anyone who knows the 'classics'). In other words suggesting that Hermione hasn't read the 'classics'.

However, I see it more as Hermione intentionally leading Umbridge to the centaurs so they can 'take care of her' for them. She knew enough to believe that the centaurs wouldn't harm her or Harry since they would be considered 'foals'. So, JKR has Hermione being very inconsistent here. Knowing a great deal about centaurs - or at least enough to successfully manipulate them, even tho' she almost messed up since she and Harry aren't that young anymore - but still being so dismissive of Firenze here.

I suppose it could also be somewhat about not just 'silly girls' Lavender and Parvati, but Hermione's dismissal of the entire subject of divination. It isn't until the next book that she becomes aware of 'true prophecies' (or at least after the fight in the DoM, later this book)

Date: 2015-01-17 08:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dracasadiablo.livejournal.com
You're right. It really makes no sense at all.
It possible that Jo was half assing it deliberately so, in case people who know their classics made too much of a fuss, there was some plausible deniability to invoke.

It isn't until the next book that she becomes aware of 'true prophecies' (or at least after the fight in the DoM, later this book)
Is it?
I can't remember, wasn't she informed about that prophecy from the third book?
Or was it the case of Harry not bothering to tell her about it?

But on the dismissal of the entire subject of divination; after the final book that makes no sense at all too.
The thing is, if Hermione is supposed to be this blind DD follower? If she really thinks his judgment is perfect?
Then how can she just dismiss a subject that's taught in best school ever and supported by the best Headmaster ever?
Disliking the teacher or thinking she's a fraud? Well, after all defense teachers they had, that's understandable.
But why isn't she going; "Here's a new teacher, handpicked by DD, and the teacher is a centaur! And everybody who ever read such and such book knows they can read the stars and predict the future! Oh, it must be that the class will learn something now! "

Date: 2015-01-17 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nx74defiant.livejournal.com
It makes sense to me. Rather than admit she might regret not taking the class she lashes out.

Hand=picked teachers

Date: 2015-01-18 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
But, why should THIS teacher picked by Albus be better than the DADA teachers? Albus picker them, too! Of course she's just had 2 years of what she thinks at the time are pretty competent DADA teachers (Remus and FakeMoody), so she shouldn't be too dismissive of them right then. After all, Umbridge was forced on him. So I suppose you're correct, that she ought to be expecting the new Divination teacher to be an improvement.

As for prophecies - I don't recall Harry mentioning the one about Peter. In my memory she said something about having just found out there were REAL prophecies and I linked that to the visit to the DoM - but I could be wrong on that. Truthfully, I feel pretty sure that she didn't say that until after Harry told her about the one regarding him, but again, I could be wrong.

IF she knew about the one in 3rd year about Peter, then she would know there were such things as real prophecies before since that one had proven true already with Voldy's rising. But I'm pretty sure that Harry only mentions it to Albus after Peter escaped. I really cannot even recall whether he mentioned it before the time-turner event or after. It's really a bit badly done that they go back in time but don't manage to catch Peter as well as freeing Buckbeak and Sirius. So I'm pretty sure Harry didn't mention it until after time righted itself again.

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