'Young Wizards' superiority acknowledged?!

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I think some/many of us here abhor Rowling's immense commercial success because it wasn't truly 'earnt' or deserved. She was fine with the early books for the kiddies in waving her hands about and fabricating a whimsical magical universe in which things happened because MAGIC! but when it came down to the crunch in writing a satisfactory conclusion to her series, where the hero had to win in a way that made sense and not BECAUSE, she showed us all that she'd put very little thought into what she was doing ... and that she couldn't properly finish what she started.

I've always compared Rowling's series with another young-adult set of books - the 'Young Wizards' series by Diane Duane. The latter being novels where the author *has* done her homework, *has* actually thought things out ... where magic makes sense and the wizards have to put serious effort into their spells, versus waving a stick and shouting a couple of nonsensical faux-latin words.

I've mentioned the 'Young Wizards' series in this community a few times, and I know from their comments here that Terri Testing and Mary J are big fans of Duane's work too.

Anway ... a mammoth HP fan fiction story, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality by Less Wrong is making some waves in the fandom at the moment because it's (finally!) nearing completion. It's a great story - I think it's the most-reviewed story on fanfiction.net/the planet - but could be seen as one where the author has hijacked HP as a vehicle to float a lesson on principles of logic and science - 'rationality' - and sometimes gets bogged down in the pedagogy. The I.Q. of the fanfic exceeds my own but I've enjoyed reading it anyway (and learnt some things along the way).

The story is nearing its conclusion; just the aftermath of the big final battle to go. In the confrontation between Harry and Voldemort chapter 109 included a very satisfying acknowedgement of Duane's 'Young Wizards' series:

"Wow," Harry whispered, and meant it. This was Magic with a capital M, the sort of Magic that appeared in So You Want To Be A Wizard, not just a collection of random physics-violating things you could do with a wand.

'So You Want To Be A Wizard' is the first volume of Duane's series.

I reckon there's something of a put-down of Rowling's work, a statement avowing the 'Young Wizards' novels' superiority, in that mention. Magic with a capital M ... it's good to see others note Rowling's failure for what it is (and isn't).

'Methods of Rationality' itself is one of those fanfics wherein the author is putting Rowling to shame in plot, logic, magical mechanics and most other things, although it's perhaps too clever/complicated for its own good.

Duane has noted the mention here.

Comments

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I wish there was more in the canon or fandom for this pairing -

After I put down WoM I went searching fanfiction.net. I've been spoilt by HP. :-) I'm used to hundreds of thousands of stories with tens of thousands of reviews. I think only one YW story has garnered more than 200 reviews!?!!? And I believe I only found a couple shipping K/N? I think, maybe, the stories aren't formally classified with that 'ship by the authors; I would have expected more than that coupling the two principals.

Thank you indeedy for the Wikipedia reference -

"very broken, inconsistent and frankly dysfunctional timeline"

Say that again! Duane was approaching Rowling ("Oh, maths!") in incompetence with regard to the kids' ages! :-(

The new timeline sees all the first nine books happen over a span of about 3 years. As Dairine is said to be 11 in book 1 ,and she is now said to be 13 in book 9.

Don't they mean 14? If she started out at 11, and the books span 3 years? 11 + 3 = 14? What elementary maths am I missing here?

Fourteen makes me much happier about Dairine. And if that makes Nita 16 or so then that age fits perfectly also.

Tbh, I would've put Carmela under the Mary Sue category rather than Nita.

I can see your point of view but I think two things weaken your argument:

Carmela gets to enjoy the fruits of wizardry and benefit from the fun sides of magic without having to pay her dues, so to speak.

Exactly. Carmela's 'powers' aren't hers - the closet, the curling iron, the remote, everything except her linguistic talent are all just gizmos that she's been given. They're not part of *her*. And so they can't be used to make her a Mary Sue, IMO. It's not *Carmela* who has suddenly developed super-powers overnight, like your standard Mary Sue - she just picked up the accouterments from the wizards around her. Makes perfect sense and - for me - doesn't make the girl herself a Mary Sue.

(This might be a fine/personal distinction but it's why I never thought of her as a Mary Sue. Funny how we see things differently - LOL as you say.)

As to the Linguistic thing, that at least has been foreshadowed and built for quite a few books.

Nita, on the other hand, has acquired all of these Mary Sue *intrinsic* powers. Also, point #2:

I feel that Nita's earned all her accomplishments -

She didn't, really. Wizards apparently just specialise as they get older, but Nita is picking up any number of skills without any real effort - no more so than the usual wizardry (which is one of the wonderful things about Duane's universe, all the wizards have to *work* and *think* about their magic, no waving a wand and saying gibberish and when's dinner). The talking to living things was fine, it was an ability on par with Kit's. But then the seer thing just happened. The Peredixis (I think I spelt that wrong - Bobo) just fell into her lap, 'just because'. Ditto the water thing.

We still don't have any *reasons* why Nita has picked up four abilities to Kit's one. Bobo is the most egregious of these - *any* of the other young wizards could have gotten closer to wizardry (did they all?) and then retained it afterwards, but only Nita did. *With no explanation*. Kit & co know about Bobo, but no-one has been questioning the elephant in the room - "Why did Nita pick up a passenger in her head, what makes her so special?".

With no answer given we readers have only one answer - because she's starting to become a Mary Sue. :-(

I like Nita, but it was with WoM that I felt that the balance between the two principals really got out of whack, both in their story-granted skills and also the portions of the novel ascribed to their narrative viewpoint. Maybe the latest books have all been devoted more to Nita, but it became somewhat blatant for me with WoM.

agree to disagree, I suppose!

Oh, of course!

But at least we both get something different and enjoyable out of it, which is the important thing.

And I enjoy talking about it too. :-) One's enjoyment of something is often amplified, I find, in discussing differences in view; sometimes I either learn something I didn't know or discover my own reasons as to my feelings. Cheers!