More grumbling about how the fans treat JKR...

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

I recognize that this is several months after the fact, but as a Jew, I can't help but be a bit miffed by the fact that people felt the need to ask Rowling if there were Jewish students at Hogwarts. Surely that's something they could have inferred themselves, if they so chose? Yet, they were so thrilled to learn that Anthony Goldstein was Jewish straight from the author's mouth. Leaving aside for a moment the fact that Anthony Goldstein never says or does anything, ever, in the entire course of the series (and is a Ravenclaw, note, not a Gryffindor), to me that's a bit like a Jewish metalhead going up to the guys in Iron Maiden and asking permission, as a Jew, to be a fan. It is true that the members of Iron Maiden had said they'd welcome Jewish fans--which near as I can tell was without a prompt, and in any case didn't focus specifically on Jewish fans but was more a blanket "We're so accepting and welcoming that we take all types of fans!" thing. Either way I have never, ever, ever heard of anyone asking the members of Iron Maiden if they accept fans of their racial or cultural background, because that's simply not how it works--either you like Maiden's music and consider yourself a fan or you don't. Likewise, if you think there ought to be Jewish students at Hogwarts you're well within your rights to imagine there being, and the author's own ideas on the subject don't and shouldn't have to play into this at all.

And here's the thing: the UK is a fairly diverse, multicultural place already. Probably it has representatives of the majority of races, cultures, and creeds that have ever existed living there (granted, this is not to say that it's without discrimination or prejudice--but that's slightly off-topic). So...shouldn't it be reasonably expected, that if a group is represented by a cross-section of the UK's population (Hogwarts is the leading British wizard school, Iron Maiden are a British band and initially gained traction in the UK before going international...), that group will contain at least a few Jews by definition? Because there are plenty of Jews that live in the UK. I even met some of them when I studied abroad there.

I just think it's ridiculous that these fans can't come to their own conclusions about this, but instead have to ask the author about it. Can they not make their own decisions about anything related to the series at all?

Comments

[dungeonwriter.livejournal.com]

How horrible do you have to think of Hogwarts when you think they wouldn't allow Jews, unless it's confirmed by author?

[attilathepbnun.livejournal.com]

Perhaps they simply think nothing in the series is 'real' unless specifically confirmed by the author?

Some people are precise like that

[dungeonwriter.livejournal.com]

It's frightening. I mean, why wouldn't there be? Are there people with earrings at Hogwarts? We shouldn't need to confirm that a place that supposedly lets in anyone with magical talent would not allow Jews.

Or are Jews just not able to be wizards?

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that IF it were that important to someone in particular, then you think they would have noticed when a jewish name came up. It isn't as if Goldstein was added on. He was in the book all along.

Personally, while I am not jewish, I was more upset about the way the goblins seemed to have been given what would amount to presumed jewish stereotypical characteristics of the past. It wasn't quite as bad as say the medieval period, since no one accused goblins of eating babies (honestly believed once of the jews in medieval christian europe)

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

"Not to mention that IF it were that important to someone in particular, then you think they would have noticed when a jewish name came up."

That's very true. I noticed his name immediately.

I agree the way the goblins are treated is fairly problematic, and so too is the fact that she made the disagreeable teacher a pale-skinned brunet with a hooked nose (all stereotypically "Jewish" traits). It's even worse if you think about how she then tries to equate Voldemort with Nazism, a regime that categorically targeted Jews, and expects to be praised for doing so (only to then turn around and say that said stereotypically-Jewish-looking teacher was WORSE than him because he was CAPABLE OF LOVE)....

I think I feel a second rant coming on.

[spongebending.livejournal.com]

You know, speaking of unfortunate implications and the like, maybe I'm just being oversensitive, but the way the Asian characters in the series were treated always rubbed me the wrong way. They were all attractive girls (there's nothing wrong with that on it's own, of course), that seemed to be used to play second-stringer to the Real (white) Love Interests and prop up how much better they were.
It's an old trope actually, where the white protagonist samples an exotic, Eastern beauty as long as he ends with the good, pure white girl at the end of story.

I'm South Asian on my dad's side, and it just always bothered me... Maybe I'm just over-thinking it; but I remember feeling really sad when I realized Cho was just being used by the narrative to show how much better Ginny was.

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

Sadly Rowling does have kind of an unfortunate habit of trying to pass off outdated stereotypes as empowering. "I want my school to look racially-tolerant so I'll create an Asian character! And I'll make her good-looking and good at Quidditch to show I'm totally not stereotyping Asians as weak or inferior! Oh, but now she exists just to unsuccessfully date Harry. Oops!"

See also: Dumbledore is Gay.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

"It's an old trope actually, where the white protagonist samples an exotic, Eastern beauty as long as he ends with the good, pure white girl at the end of story."

Harry James Potter, otherwise known as Benjamin Franklin Pinkerton. Well, at least Cho didn't kill herself.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Well, she and Harry weren't married, and she hadn't had his child, then been abandoned, then had him come back with another wife. Under those circumstances, she might have. Which would have proven what a coward she was because she wasn't willing to live for her child's sake.

I'm rereading Arsenoe de Blassenville's "Best Revenge" series. One of my favorite scenes is when Scummywhore gets raked over the coals by Charity for his misogynistic remarks about Merope. It's even more effective because she's usually so mild-mannered--and she's backed up by the other witches! Yay!

Charity dissing Scumbles

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten that--which chapter was it?

Re: Charity dissing Scumbles

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Oh dear, you would ask that. It took some combing through the books to find it, since I finished it a week ago, and I've read about 3 other books since then. Anyway, it's in Time of the Basilisk, chapter 22. She also talks about how Tom should have been allowed to stay at Hogwarts during WWII.

Re: Charity dissing Scumbles

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Thanks! (goes back & re-reads)--I do like AB's Charity....

Re: Charity dissing Scumbles

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

I liked it too.

Charity ask how was Merope to know using a love potion was wrong? Merope was never taught that.

But even if Merope had gone to Hogwarts she wouldn't have been taught it was wrong.

[josephinestone.livejournal.com]

I really want to read this rant now.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

In the immortal words of Smoky Robinson, I second that emotion!

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

It's doubly ridiculous if you consider the fact that we KNOW that there are Black people at Hogwarts (Dean Thomas, Lee Jordan, Blaise Zabini...), and people of South and East Asian descent (the Patil sisters, Cho Chang...). So why in the hell shouldn't there also be Jews?!

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

You know - I'm not sure exactly why, but I was very confused when we got a description of Neville.

I think it might have been a combination of 'Neville Brothers' and 'Longbottom' reminding me of Longbottom Leaf in Tolkein. I imagined him as from the West Indies before his description really set in. Which was really weird of me since the Neville Brothers are not from there.

Of course, Neville is a much more british name - not one we often run into in the USA - altho' we might have more Nevilles coming up after this series.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Despite what might have been said in the text, I never did think of Neville Longbottom as anything but white, maybe because my brain immediately jumped to the most famous RL Neville that I knew: Neville Chamberlain. Which is a bit of a missed opportunity that Rowling didn't name her universe's head-in-the-sand Appeasement leader dude that instead.

[dungeonwriter.livejournal.com]

I'd have been less upset if the question had been "In Harry's year." But to imagine that the school is Jew-free unless specifically mentioned is scary to me.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

we KNOW that there are Black people at Hogwarts (Dean Thomas, Lee Jordan, Blaise Zabini...)

Do we? The only black person I remember being referred to in the books is Angelina Johnson, who dated Fred and married George Weasley. I haven't seen the movies, so I don't confuse book canon with movie canon. I also remember hearing that so little was said about Blaise before the movies came out that many people thought the character was a girl.

Instead of real blacks in the books, we get mudbloods, the made-up, all-purpose, stand-in minority. Certainly many black fans of the books identify with them, or we wouldn't have arguments about Severus calling Lily that. I don't get why "mudblood" is a worse term than "muggleborn," the "polite" word that is derived from a racist epithet.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Blaise is specifically described as black in bk6. I remember being terribly surprised because I had imagined him as typically 'italian' looking - shame on me since of course italians can be black as well as any other nationality - especially if it was his mother who was black.

I do not recall right now if Lee Jordan was ever specifically described as black or if it was only that he was said to have dredlocks - which of course could still work if he was white or any other 'race'. The first description of him would be when Harry sees him showing the twins his tarantula on Harry's first trip to Platform 9-3/4 Altho' I think it was at the least 'assumed' he was black due to his hair, it does not necessarily mean he was if he wasn't described in any other way.

Dean Thomas is specifically described as black from the very beginning.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Blaise is specifically described as black in bk6.

Which was written after several of the movies had been made, with a black boy cast in the role. That's my point. In the early books, we're only given his name, nothing about his sex, race, or any other distinguishing characteristic.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

I think when Lee Jordan was first introduced, Rowling said that he was a boy with a Dreadlocks hairdo, which is a common thing among black people and less among white or Asian people, right?