deathtocapslock | Covering for Hagrid

In my re-read of PS/SS, specifically looking for instances when the adults ought to know more than the kids about what’s going on, a penny finally dropped. Apologies to everyone who probably figured this out years ago.

Harry and Hermione, under the Invisibility Cloak, gleefully watch as McGonagall drags Draco Malfoy off by the ear, calling his claim that Harry has a dragon “utter rubbish.” They go hand off Norbert(a) to Charlie’s friends and head back down, whereupon McGonagall nabs them too and tells them off for “[feeding] Draco Malfoy some cock-and-bull story about a dragon, trying to get him out of bed and into trouble.”

This seems like blatant unfairness. Surely Draco didn’t stop trying to explain once he was out of Harry and Hermione’s earshot—didn’t he tell McGonagall he had seen the dragon in Hagrid’s hut with his own eyes? Hasn’t Hagrid told anyone who would listen that he would love to have a dragon? Hasn’t she noticed Hagrid being strangely absent the last few weeks? It seems like enough to merit investigation, at least, so she can at least punish Harry and Hermione for their actual transgressions--i.e., being out after curfew to act as accessories in a crime. (Dragon breeding and keeping dragons is against the law, remember. No doubt smuggling them as well, especially when it’s smuggling to conceal the earlier crime.) After fifty years, doesn’t Minerva know Hagrid at all?

Er, yes, she does. That’s the problem.

What, exactly, would happen if she had uncovered evidence that Hagrid had indeed broken the law by acquiring and hatching a dragon egg? Unlike the kids, she almost certainly knows that Hagrid was expelled for raising a Class XXXXX creature in the school. What would the consequences be, were he caught raising another Class XXXXX creature—one which, this time, unquestionably harmed a student when it sent Ron to the hospital wing with that nasty bite? And then enlisted students in concealing his crimes? I don’t think you need a degree in wizarding law to say things wouldn’t look too good for Hagrid. (Plus, we’ve read CoS. And he was just a suspect then!)

If McGonagall lets Draco believe for one minute that she considers his story plausible, she’s essentially just given Lucius Malfoy the go-ahead to raise a stink, with all the undoubtedly negative consequences for Hagrid--and his patron, Dumbledore. (She can hardly investigate and “find no evidence,” with Ron’s hospital wing stay on record. Better to be thought too trusting of her colleagues than complicit, if it comes out anyway.) So she can’t let on if she thinks it’s plausible.

(Why didn’t Draco owl Lucius to demand an investigation anyway? One wonders whether after insisting that he saw the dragon through Hagrid’s window, Draco got an earful about how if he really had seen such a thing, and told no one but instead sneaked out of bed to get another look, he would be guilty of concealing a crime himself. So it’s lucky Professor McGonagall doesn’t believe such an absurd story. Isn’t it, Mr. Malfoy.)

To recap: not only are Harry, Ron, and Hermione covering for Hagrid (which he, an adult staff member, set them up to do), and not only are Charlie and his dragon-smuggling friends covering for Hagrid, but McGonagall is also quite possibly covering for Hagrid. Lucky Hagrid!

Now, I do have sympathy for Hagrid. Really, I do. I even wrote an essay back in 2006 about it. All his dialogue about how he’s this dangerous little monster’s “Mummy” and how “Mummy” loves him and won’t abandon him take on new meaning once you get to GoF and find out that Hagrid’s own mummy--from a species reputed to be vicious and monstrous--abandoned him, and that he keeps his heritage secret because people will think he’s potentially a vicious monster, and he would never! But working out these issues by roping his friends--including children--into dangerous, even criminal actions? Not cool, Hagrid.

And while I also sympathize with the desire to keep him out of a horrific torture-prison, the collateral damage from these cover-ups isn’t doing anyone else any favors. Harry, for one, gets one of the Dursleys’ lessons reinforced for him: nobody cares to find out the truth, and all the explanations and evidence in the world (er, Draco’s, not Harry’s, this time, since Harry’s not talking) won’t help you. People believe what they want to believe and punish you or not based on how they feel, and there’s nothing you can do to change anyone’s mind.

Lesson learned.

Current Mood: cynical
Current Location: Astronomy Tower

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

terri-testing.livejournal.com

Oh, you're right. Or mostly.

It gets worse, sunny.

Remember that both Snape and Dumbledore are Legilimens. How long had they known about Hagrid's dragon-hatching? Possibly since well before Ron's hospitalization; certainly since. Poppy never for a moment bought that Ron was suffering from a dog bite. Most likely Snape read the truth in Draco's eyes at some point when Draco was daydreaming about his little plan to play the hero and catch the Trio in the act of dragon-smuggling.

At the least, Snape or DD would have seen, in Draco's eyes, or Ron's, the dragon in Hagrid's hut. And then it's very simple for Albus to verify exactly what was going on... and probably Obliviate Hagrid that he had done so.

For Dumbledore decided that the best way to cover up the matter, was let the kids do it. Harry needs the practice anyhow, and that way he has plausible deniability if something goes wrong.

So he PRIMED Minerva to look for Draco that night, and told her what story Draco would tell, and what she should tell HIM when he fed her that cock-and-bull story about wanting to be a hero. Of course she's not going to bother waiting for Draco to present his evidence, not when Albus had already told her exactly what lies Draco would tell.

But from Minerva's reaction to Harry and Hermione, she likely wasn't told the full truth up front. She was probably Albus's patsy. Her reaction makes more sense if she had been told by Albus that Draco would simply be lying, and her 450 points from her own house the outraged reaction to the thought that Potter had given Draco reason to think his story true. (And to the realization that ALBUS had been lying to her--or at least, withholding critical information.)

Albus didn't expect Harry and Hermione to be stupid enough to forget the cloak and get caught by Filch in turn. He didn't want the kids punished for helping him out of a tough spot, and HE didn't want their rule-breaking propensities to be checked.

After going ballistic on the kids, one wonders what Minerva said to her boss about the missing information?

Oh, goddess, I'm going to have to retract a bit about Minerva. Because she didn't back down to Dumbledore on letting the points-loss stand after she knew they were, students and staff, covering up for Hagrid.

Oh, goodness, and when she sent the kids out with Hagrid for that detention, she knew, a, that three of the four HAD endangered their fellow students by concealing illegal lethal creatures (so it served them right to face the danger they were willing to bring on others), and b, that two of them were Hagrid's friends and accomplices, and that Hagrid would doubtless take excellent care of them, by his own lights. She wouldn't have expected Hagrid to split up the party....

From:

sunnyskywalker

Minerva almost certainly had enough info to know Something Was Up by that point even without any priming. Hagrid had been nearly AWOL for a couple of weeks, and then one of the students in her house ended up in the hospital wing with a suspicious bite wound. (Ron was there long enough that Pomfrey ought to have told his head of house he was injured, even if Albus didn't want her to speculate by what.) If she went to Albus with concerns about what Hagrid might have that injured her student, he probably twinkled and said it was under control. So when she caught Draco and he said Hagrid had a dragon, she would almost have to be thinking, damn, that's what was going on. Her anger could definitely be at Harry and Hermione being foolish enough to get involved AND GET CAUGHT and the realization that Albus and the kids made it so she was now stuck in the conspiracy as well if she didn't want Hagrid in Azkaban and the kids in legal trouble.

Dumbledore could hardly tell her to call off the detentions if they were going to maintain that there was no dragon. Let it be a lesson in being more careful!

I don't know how she caught Draco in the first place, though. She wasn't patrolling; she was in her bathrobe and had obviously just been rousted ought of bed. By what? Very curious.

Between the bite and Catmione, I really wonder how many cover-ups Pomfrey is party to.

From:

hwyla.livejournal.com

Minerva being in her bathrobe does somewhat suggest that Draco went to her directly instead of finding whomever is on patrol.

This also says something about the assumption that Draco is Snape's favorite. This is the second time Draco goes 'tattling' and yet neither time does he go to his own head of house. IF Snape REALLY favored Draco, wouldn't Draco have gone to him? The 'favorite' myth is all based on Snape pointing out Draco's perfectly chopped slugs in that first class - something that IF Snape had done for Hermione (IF she had chopped hers perfectly) would not have later been remembered - well possibly - she was rather disliked at the time - they might have thought 'teacher's pet' about her too.

Anyone else think (in retrospect) that the fact they sere slugs is supposed to link Snape's treatment of Draco in that 'praise' with Slughorn? Note that Draco did not even receive points for it. Compare that to Minerva rewarding Harry's misbehavior in Flying class with a broom and an exception to the rule prohibiting first years from playing quidditch. True, Draco started it all, but it was again a Slytherin threatened with death by a Gryff. Harry DID say he would knock Draco off his broom - after just seeing Neville hurt in his fall from one.

Really makes the Gryffs look like 'whiners' for taking exception to the way Snape 'favors' his own house.

From:

sunnyskywalker

The really odd thing here is that it doesn't look like Draco woke her. Here's the passage from the first US edition, Oct. 1998:

Then a sudden movement ahead of them made them almost drop the crate. Forgetting that they were already invisible, they shrank into the shadows, staring at the dark outlines of two people grappling with each other ten feet away. A lamp flared.

Professor McGonagall, in a tartan bathrobe and hairnet, had Malfoy by the ear.

"Detention!" she shouted. "And twenty points from Slytherin! Wandering around in the middle of the night, how dare you--"

"You don't understand, Professor. Harry Potter's coming--he's got a dragon!"

"What utter rubbish! How dare you tell such lies! Come on--I shall see Professor Snape about you, Malfoy!"

So, it sounds like Malfoy was lying in wait, and hadn't gone to her. But then who did call her out of bed so suddenly? A portrait? Or is Terri right that Dumbledore told her Draco was going to be out with some lie to entrap Harry, and that she should "happen upon him" to make sure there was no "unpleasantness"? (Maybe then she asked a portrait to wake her if Malfoy was spotted.) And she now realizes just what kind of mess Dumbledore has roped her into...

From:

hwyla.livejournal.com

I just cannot see her remaining in her robe IF she knew she would need to go grab a student. I can understand a portrait waking her, but not her expecting to go out of her room (as in Albus told her to expect Draco).

I have no idea how Draco would know where to find her room. It isn't as if her Gryffs even know. But just because she is lecturing him on wandering the halls, doesn't mean he didn't wake her. Perhaps he requested a portrait 'fetch' her?

From:

sunnyskywalker

It is weird. But I can't really see her "grappling in the dark" if Draco had just knocked on her door either. Wouldn't she light the lamp when answeing the door, or ask who it was? They didn't walk here together from her quarters or they would have had this conversation already. It sounds like she was wandering in the dark in her bathrobe, which is just weird.

From:

hwyla.livejournal.com

Well, IF Draco did have a portrait 'fetch' her and he really had no idea where her room was, then she might have just gotten to him. Doyle reasoning? JKR just wanted to ensure Harry heard it and he would not have if she had said it at her bedroom door. But IF Draco never found her door and asked a portrait to get her, then that would work for a Watsonian reason.

You know, another alternative is that he didn't ask for Minerva specifically, but asked a portrait for a teacher and the portrait decided that since it involved her Gryffs, then it should be Minerva that was awakened. This actually works a bit for Draco having learned his lesson from the 'duel' and tattling to Filch. Draco is on the scene this time, perhaps waiting to ensure that Harry & co. actually show up (since they weren't there for Filch to find). So I can see Draco waiting near the Astronomy Tower and asking a nearby portrait to get a teacher. The only problem with that is he has NOT yet seen Harry. So perhaps a portrait acted on its own? But then, why get Minerva for a Slytherin?

One of my main points about this all is that this is the second time Draco has 'tattled' and neither time has he involved Snape. I need to think about whether or not this changes later in the books. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of him continuing to tattle. I think it's more that they just get caught.

Does this mean Draco learned his lesson? Tattling at Hogwarts will not work and may only get you in trouble as well? Or was he more covert (doubtful, considering the way he cannot keep his mouth shut in bk2).

I do agree that this detention would have colored the way Draco saw Hagrid. We know he saw him as 'just a servant' in Diagon Alley, but I don't recall him saying anything about him being dangerous - tho' I could be wrong about that. He certainly knows Hagrid is dangerous after the forest detention.

And what does this all say about the idea that Harry believes Draco is Snape's 'favorite', if he doesn't go to his own head of house to do this tattling? Not to mention that later on that Draco works to hide his own misdeeds (bk4 - the 'teeth') from Snape.

Edited Date: 2015-10-08 02:00 pm (UTC)

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Draco goes to Severus in POA when Harry's head shows up illegally in Hogsmeade.

From:

hwyla.livejournal.com

Thank You! I was drawing a blank, but it did seem unlikely that he never did tattle again.

From:

nx74defiant.livejournal.com

Let it be a lesson in being more careful!

The only real rule at Hogwarts seems to be DON"T GET CAUGHT!

There is no follow up on accusations, no attempts to get to the bottom of things.

If they are not caught, than it doesn't matter. No need to try to face the real problems at the school

As long as the DE don't get caught, then Dumbles can ignore the fact that Voldy was recruiting Slytherins during the James and Severus school years.

Edited Date: 2015-10-11 02:04 am (UTC)

From:

sunnyskywalker

It really is, isn't it. We won't punish you if we don't actually catch you in the act... so make sure we don't catch you! This will be good training for politics should you decide on that career path!

From:

sunnyskywalker

More on punishments: I guess Hogwarts is somewhat consistent after all? Detention and 150 points for illegal dragon smuggling, several detentions for attempted manslaughter. She just can't say what the punishment is really for to maintain plausible deniability. (Even Neville was party to concealing the crime since he knew and did not report it. No wonder he hets the same punishment as H&H.) And Minerva might tell herself the points are also her punishment to herself for collaborating since I really doubt she wants to lose the House Cup to Severus again. (Er, not that it's adequate...)

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Now I want to know more about Minerva in book 1.

- Did she have any other motives when she decided to reward Harry for his rule-breaking during the flying lesson, aside from getting the Gryffindor team a Seeker (apparently the team didn't have an alternate one that year) and sucking up to The Boy Who Lived?

- Did she or didn't she see through Hermione's story about the troll? (Hmm, note some similarity between Draco's supposed 'lie' and Hermione's story?)

- When Harry claimed Severus was trying to steal the Stone, was her response spontaneous or was there any other priming or other intervention involved?

As for Severus - did he do anything to protect students from the dragon?

From:

sunnyskywalker

Interesting questions! She doesn't generally seem to have long-term cunnning plans as far as I remember, but if after deciding to recruit Harry as Seeker she realized there might be ancillary benefits... I don't know?

If she did see through Hermione's story--and it's such a flimsy story, really, and Hermione doesn't sound convincing--maybe sh took those points to punish Hermione for lying to get in good with her peers. Though she really might have said so and actually tried to teach the girl something.

The whole plot with the Stone is so confusing that I really don't know on that one either.

From:

sunnyskywalker

Oh, and another point in favor of Dumbledore knowing all along: Hagrid doesn't specify where "in the village" he was drinking with this mysterious stranger, but where else but the Hog's Head would a hooded, suspicious character go to pass out dragon eggs? Aberforth probably called Albus the minute those two left the pub.

You're right, it just gets worse and worse.

Edited Date: 2015-10-08 12:26 am (UTC)

From:

penguinsuzie.livejournal.com

Remember that both Snape and Dumbledore are Legilimens.

I actually kind of doubt Dumbledore's skills at Legilimency and especially at Occlumency. He definitely does it but there's so many things he's missed that he shouldn't have; like the real traitor in the Order, or the fact that the kids were hiding that they were Animagus after the Shack incident. He also refused to teach Harry Occlumency himself despite the fact that he'd find something much more incriminating in Snapes head (anything about Snape being loyal from Dumbledore's POV would be acceptable for a spy but from Snape's mind...). I definitely think that Albus is the sort of person who'd never seriously correct any view of him that overestimated his genius and skill.

(Sorry that was a bit off topic, it's just something I was thinking about.)

From:

hwyla.livejournal.com

I think what Albus was really worried about Voldy finding in Albus' head was not just that Albus knew Voldy made horcruxes but especially that Albus knew Harry was one. Letting Voldy in on that secret would mean he would no longer try to kill Harry and so Voldy would remain immortal (well at least live as long as Harry did) unless Albus finally got up the nerve to kill Harry himself.

From:

nx74defiant.livejournal.com

DD does have the habit of letting other people do his dirty work rather than taking the risk himself. That way when things go wrong he can blame someone else.

(deleted comment)

From:

oryx_leucoryx

And the House Cup competition reinforces this in-House cover-up deal.

From:

sunnyskywalker

You have to wonder how it would have gone if Hagrid HAD been the one to find the basilisk. It was an accident! Poor thing was lonely! And no one even died the second time!

Again, I sympathize with not wanting to send anyone to torturedeath prison. But maybe they should advocate a little harder for criminal justice reform, then. Or at least not encourage Hagrid by promoting him to a position with MORE opportunity to get dangerous creatures and expose kids to them. Basic minimum there! Should be so easy to meet that standard!

From:

jana-ch.livejournal.com

I trust Headmaster Snape, when he recovers from his near-death experience and puts the school in order (I almost said ‘back in order,’ but it was never in order under Dumbles), will demote Hagrid back to groundskeeper, which was his title in Book One. Surely Snape, considering his own unpleasant experiences with magical monsters, could track down a couple of reasonably sane people as gamekeeper and as Magical Creatures prof to deal with animals. The new gamekeeper, as part of his job interview, could be asked to present a long-term plan for exterminating the infestation of Acromantulae in the Forbidden Forest. Hagrid can spend his time mowing the lawn and growing giant pumpkins. Fortunately he doesn’t seem to be interested in deadly plants; he leaves those to Sprout, who keeps them well under control. Who says Hufflepuffs are soft?

From:

sunnyskywalker

I have high hopes that Grubbly-Plank will be willing to teach full time now that Dumbledore is no longer running things.

Since the Acromantulae are sapient, I think part of the interview should involve developing multiple strategies to attempt before waging war. Are they amenable to negotiation, since they are apparently capable of restraint when they choose? Maybe the gamekeeper could raise a herd of goats for them. Would they prefer relocation to their ancestral homeland in Borneo, if Borneo will have them? And what can we do to compensate the centaurs for this incursion into their territory? It still might come to war, but finding a gamekeeper who starts by looking for a diplomatic solution sounds like a good thing to encourage, and necessary when living by the Forbidden Forest.

Hufflepuffs are hardcore and anyone who thinks otherwise will be rudely proven wrong someday.

From:

nx74defiant.livejournal.com

Promoting Hagrid makes no sense. Dumbles can not have thought Hagrid would make a good teacher. Sometimes I wonder if Dumbles is deliberately dumbing down the education students receive at Hogwarts.

From:

sunnyskywalker

It really doesn't. Though the wizarding world doesn't seem to value teaching as a skill in itself, just subject knowledge--though we don't know whether things were any different before Dumbledore took over. I'd suspect it wasn't, just because earlier teaching methods, which the ww would have inherited, tended toward lots of recitation and memorization, but you never know. They at least might have been memorizing more advanced stuff!

What was he thinking, I wonder? Would no one else take the job? Was it part of a power play with someone else, and Hagrid just the clueless pawn? Or does Dumbledore honestly just have no concept of teaching as a skill, and thinks Hagrid would be as good as anyone? (Being as precocious as he was, he might not get that learning takes work for some kids, and that teachers can make this process easier. And it's not like he'd have bothered to study pedagogical methods.)

He definitely has an interest in keeping History of Magic and Divination and DADA dumbed down. Wouldn't want students asking certain questions, or having to tools to think of those questions. Not sure about the other classes.

From:

jana-ch.livejournal.com

What was special about the year Hagrid was promoted? Well, there was a dangerous magical creature on staff that year. A hard-headed professional like Grubbly-Plank would have been an ally for Snape in insisting on strict safety protocols, which would have cramped Lupin’s style—or at least injured his delicate sensibilities. (Trigger warning for sensitive lycanthropes: old-fashioned CoMC professor does not indulge in political correctness!) We also saw, when she subbed for Hagrid in Book Five, that she didn’t play favorites for the Boy Who Lived and his pals. That would make two of Harry’s teachers, Snape and Grubbly-Plank, who didn’t think Harry was anything special, instead of leaving Snape isolated as the only meanie.

I’ve been looking for a new plot bunny: Snape/ Grubbly-Plank, One True Alliance?

From:

hwyla.livejournal.com

Great Point! There can be no other reason I can think of for promoting Hagrid to a teaching post. We have to remember that not only did Hagrid not know teaching methods (but then that does seem to be ignored for ALL teachers), but he never even took his OWLs. At least I think he didn't - perhaps if he was older than Tom, then he took OWLs, but not his NEWTs.

We know Albus didn't really think Hagrid was responsible for Myrtle's death, but I cannot believe that parents were at all aware that their children were learning from a teacher that had not only been expelled but had his wand snapped.

Especially in such a dangerous subject. Imagine Draco and the Hippogryff IF Hagrid could have thrown a protego in between them! Or in the case of the blast ended skwerts that blast fire. What if a child's uniform had caught fire? Hagrid couldn't have even cast aquamenti at it!

From:

jana-ch.livejournal.com

Or it may just have been another treat for Harry: his best friend on the staff gets promoted to professor, making Hogwarts even more his Perfect Happy Home. Nothing to do with Hagrid himself at all.

From:

sunnyskywalker

He was expelled in 3rd year, iirc, so no OWLs. I'd be fine with a teacher who didn't have an OWL in their subject qualifying based on decades of experience instead... but then we're back to lack of teaching experience or training. And yeah, not having a wand does hamper him an awful lot as far as student (and animal!) safety. You'd think that would be something Lucius Malfoy would have added to his list of grievances.

From:

jana-ch.livejournal.com

There’s also Hagrid’s complete lack of understanding of what creatures are and are not dangerous for people who aren’t half-giants, and the fact that he’s more concerned about the safety of his monsters than he is about the safety of the children. No one at Hogwarts cares much about safety, but Hagrid is bad even by Hogwarts standards. He has no awareness of the fragility of the non-giant human body.

For my Snubbly-Plank plot, can you see Minerva persuading Wilhelmina to apply for the job (she didn’t want it full time in Book Five) by telling her their DADA professor will be a magical creature and their Potions Master can show her a new, improved version of Wolfsbane? It’s hard to see Minnie sucessfully heading off any of Albus’s plots, even if it occurred to her to try.

From:

sunnyskywalker

Depends on her research interests. Iirc, Grubbly-Plank's lessons included unicorns and bowtruckles, both forest-dwelling creatures and not (usually) aggressive (unless you threaten the bowtruckle's tree). Maybe she is interested in forest-creatures generally? Forest ecology management?

Another possible incentive is the Thestral herd. Not only are there a bunch living there, but they're apparently the only trained herd in Britain. She might be interested in working with the herd, with Hagrid's help (he did manage to train them, so he can consult with her while keeping his current job).

Also, besides being a werewolf testing the new Wolfsbane, the new DADA teacher is also an expert in many Dark creatures. They might be able to coordinate their curricula very effectively. Lupin's other failings aside, he does teach the kids a lot about various creatures, so the students might get decent instruction in both of those classes.

The possibility of collaborating with two staff members (Lupin and Hagrid) in her subject, rather than just being an isolated outsider trying to pick up some slack but being expected to give it up as soon as a less qualified person returns, might make the job more attractive. And "Hey, you could collaborate with people who share your interests, so why not try it for a year and see how you like it" is something that could occur to McGonagall as a recruiting pitch.

From:

oryx_leucoryx

It is canon that Hagrid was in his 3rd year when he was expelled, so no OWLs for him.

From:

terri-testing.livejournal.com

There's another angle no one has yet mentioned: the political one. Last year Hagrid had been sent to Azkaban, and Dumbledore suspended. Promoting Hagrid is one in the eye for the alliance that did that--ha, not only are we both back, but look what I have the power to do and you can't stop me.

In which case Hagrid's incompetence just underlines the point.

Plus DD can present it as recompense to Hagrid for his unjust incarceration.