Chamber of Conspiracy Theories

[sunnyskywalker]

I swear, I don't go looking for conspiracies in these books, or dastardly plots concocted by Dumbledore. And I'm sure that some of them have the Doylist explanation that Rowling didn't realize some of the problems that failing to keep track of who knows what when causes. But looking at things Watsonianly, a lot of things just don't add up without something extremely dodgy going down in the background.

Case in point: basically everything in Chamber of Secrets. I know we've talked about how what Dobby knows about the "dangerous plot," how he knows it, what Lucius Malfoy knows and intends, and basically everything else connected to the Diary deployment and Dobby trying to keep Harry out of Hogwarts gets harder to explain the more you examine it, so I'll pass over that particular subplot. There's still plenty to keep me busy.

For instance, while Dumbledore's precise degree of skill at Legilimency is in question, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that he has some skill (Snape would surely notice if he didn't). So it's always possible that he does see a bit of what Harry's thinking. In this scene, for example:

Harry waited nervously while Dumbledore considered him, the tips of his long fingers together.

"I must ask you, Harry, whether there is anything you'd like to tell me," he said gently. "Anything at all."

Harry didn't know what to say. He thought of Malfoy shouting, "You'll be next, Mudbloods!" and of the Polyjuice Potion simmering away in Myrtle's bathroom. Then he thought of the disembodied voice he had heard twice and remembered what Ron had said: "Hearing voices no one else can hear isn't a good sign, even in the wizarding world." He thought, too, about what everyone was saying about him, and his growing dread that he was somehow connected with Salazar Slytherin...

Now, the scene actually doesn't specify eye contact. So maybe Harry just stared at Dumbledore's hands the whole time. Maybe. And if he didn't? If he looked up into those twinkly eyes, making no effort to hide his thoughts because he doesn't know the risk, how much of that could Dumbledore have seen? All of it?

For reference, this is after Harry has outed himself as a Parselmouth in the dueling club. If Dumbledore did get a good peek into Harry's mind, combined with his existing knowledge, he could know all of the following:

• That Harry believes Draco Malfoy might be behind the attacks due to his prejudiced outburts;
  
• That Harry and his friends are brewing Polyjuice Potion, and where, as part of some sort of plot to investigate Malfoy;
  
• That Harry can speak to snakes;
  
• That Harry hears a voice in the walls no one else hears;
  
• That the monster is something that kills without leaving a mark;
  
• That the monster is something he suspects Tom Riddle, a Parselmouth, can control;
  
• That Hagrid is carrying around a dead rooster when making coq au vin is not part of his job;
  
• That Harry is afraid he's descended from Salazar Slytherin, also a known Parselmouth.

Starting at the beginning of the list, if Dumbledore saw anything in Harry's mind, he probably has reason to suspect Harry is planning something involving Polyjuice, and knows where to find the potion. And does nothing to stop it. How hard would it be to arrange for a "cleaning" or "repair work" to the bathroom and mess up their brewing? (He could identify them as the brewers or be "unable" to do so, as he decides.) For that matter, if the Hogwarts house-elves clean the bathrooms regularly, they might have already notified Dumbledore that someone is brewing in Myrtle's bathroom, so he could have evidence from a source other than Harry's mind. Snape has no doubt reported that boomslang skin went missing from his stores after someone in his second-year Gryffindor/Slytherin class threw a highly distracting firework into a cauldron. Dumbledore even probably knows the likely targets of this little investigation.

What exactly does he think the benefit of allowing the kids to execute this plan will be? After all, if he suspects Draco has somehow brought Voldemort into the school, he hardly needs to rely on twelve-year-olds with a half-baked impersonation scheme to prove it. And one would imagine that the risks here, to student safety alone even if you discount the Trio's development in reasoning ability, planning, and morality, would demand that he intervene somehow. Is there any explanation that isn't either unspeakably callous indifference or chilling manipulation?

As for the rest... even if he assumed during the original incident fifty years ago that Tom had simply terrorized the school himself and then AK'd Myrtle... no, back up. Why would he assume that when her ghost is right there and he could ask her how she died? She remembers the hissing sound and the big yellow eyes. Yet she acts like no one has ever asked her what happened. Seriously? I know wizards are terrible at investigating anything, but that's a bit much to swallow. And we know Dumbledore has gone to some trouble to collect Tom-related memories from Bob Ogden, Hokey, and Morfin. A trip to Azkaban takes a lot more effort than walking down the stairs to chat with a ghost. Are we really supposed to believe he didn't bother?

So, Dumbledore has asked Myrtle what happened... and Obliviated her memory that he asked, so no one can know that he knows what the monster is, but not her memory of dying. Or restored that memory, if he initially Obliviated it. Or maybe he didn't alter her memories at all; it's only Harry's impression that she had never been asked how she died. She never actually says so.

Starting over: Dumbledore knows that in the original incident, Myrtle died after hearing someone, probably known Parselmouth Tom, hissing, and then seeing big yellow eyes. He knows that this time, Parselmouth Harry has been hearing a voice talking about killing which no one else can hear. He doesn't have to be a brilliant wizard to start thinking "this is probably some kind of snake." And the identity of a snake which kills people by looking at them is hardly obscure or secret knowledge. (Muggles know that one.) Hagrid bringing in a dead rooster, and the fleeing spiders if he's noticed that, would just confirm that yep, this is almost certainly a basilisk.

Dumbledore knows the monster is a basilisk before Christmas, and he doesn't warn people to carry mirrors. Is it just too awkward to explain how he knows certain things? He has a reputation for brilliance; surely he could give the impression that he just figured it out based on clues like the roosters and the spiders and the method of injury/death, and everyone would buy that. And he's certainly clever enough to realize this. So what positive benefit does he see in not warning everyone what the monster is and how to protect themselves against it?

Curiously, Fred and George also seem to have a clue as to what the monster is. Shortly after Dumbledore probably gazes into Harry's eyes, we get, "'Yeah, he's off to the Chamber of Secrets for a cup of tea with his fanged servant,' George said, chortling." Maybe "fanged" is just a common shorthand for "evil but unspecified monster." But George also knows Harry is a Parselmouth--everyone does. If even fourth-year students are thinking "giant snake of some sort," it just can't be that hard to work out. Are we really supposed to believe that no one makes the leap from "giant snake" to "basilisk" until after the Easter holidays? And no one but Hermione until summer? Seriously? Is someone drugging or Confunding half the castle or what?

Moving on. Let's back up again to the "Rogue Bludger" chapter. Harry is in the hospital wing, re-growing the bones in his arm. Dumbledore and McGonagall enter carrying a Petrified Colin Creevey, Dumbledore wearing "a long woolly dressing gown and nightcap." Pomfrey asks what happened, and the story is... odd.

"Another attack," Dumbledore said. "Minerva found him on the stairs."

"There was a bunch of grapes next to him," said Professor McGonagall. "We think he was trying to sneak up here to visit Potter."

[...]

"But I shudder to think... If Albus hadn't been on the way downstairs for hot chocolate--who knows what might have--"

So... Dumbledore was going down to the kitchens in his nightclothes for cocoa, instead of summoning a house-elf to bring it to his room, and McGonagall thinks he scared off the attacker before Colin could die... which led to McGonagall discovering Colin's Petrified form? Er, something's off here. If she was also headed down for cocoa, or was out patrolling, why doesn't she think her proximity might have contributed to scaring off the monster? Since she must have been at least as close, if not closer, to the scene in order to find Colin? Curiously, no one says exactly how she arrived at the scene in the first place. (Or whether she's in her tartan bathrobe or day wear.)

Well. Maybe she found Colin while patrolling, Dumbledore coincidentally passed by a moment later, and she assumed that without his timely arrival, the monster might have come back and finished both her and Colin off. Because the monster and the Heir would naturally be scared of the Great and Powerful Dumbledore, but wouldn't blink at attacking anyone else. And, um, either Dumbledore wanted a walk because he was restless, or Hogwarts staff never summon house-elves. Sure. I guess that could work. But what a coincidence, that McGonagall should happen to find Colin just as Dumbledore is passing by toddling downstairs for cocoa, alone, when a monster is on the loose. I don't know what this might add up to, if anything, but as I said, it's... odd.

Okay, last one. Harry and Ron have just found the ripped-out library book page on basilisks in Hermione's clenched hand (gosh, if only someone had invented a device of some kind to make copies of paper with writing on it by 1993). They've run through the whole explanation of the basilisk traveling in the pipes and why each victim ended up Petrified rather than killed, and the possibility that the entrance is in Moaning Myrtle's bathroom, while sitting in the hospital wing, apparently with no one close enough to hear them. They run down to the staff room to tell McGonagall. When the announcement comes for students to return to their dorms and all teachers to go to the staff room, instead of waiting for the teachers to arrive, handing over the torn page, and explaining everything they've worked out, we get this:

"What'll we do?" said Ron, aghast. "Go back to the dormitory?"

"No," said Harry, glancing around. There was an ugly sort of wardrobe to his left, full of the teachers' cloaks. "In here. Let's hear what it's all about. Then we can tell them what we've found out."

Then, after the boys hear that Ginny has been taken, they... wait until the teachers file out, head back to the Gryffindor dorm, and do absolutely nothing for the rest of the day. Um, why? They could just ask what's going on when the teachers arrive and explain their discovery as they originally planned! Even if they were in too much shock to act or think at that moment, surely it would have occurred to them to try their original "tell McGonagall" plan sometime over the next few hours? But instead, near sunset, we get this:

If only there was something they could do. Anything.

[...]

"Do you know what?" said Ron. "I think we should go and see Lockhart. Tell him what we know. He's going to try and get into the Chamber. We can tell him where we think it is, and tell him it's a basilisk in there."

Because Harry couldn't think of anything else to do, and because he wanted to be doing something, he agreed.

He couldn't think of anything else to do? When just hours earlier he'd been planning to tell McGonagall, and has heard no reason he shouldn't? Harry and Ron know perfectly well that Lockhart can't even manage Cornish pixies. It doesn't occur to them, not once, that they could tell Lockhart and the other teachers? For that matter, why not tell their classmates about the note they found in Hermione's hand when they went to visit her in the hospital wing, and that they should all be carrying mirrors for safety?

It strains credulity. You can't claim that it never occurred to them to tell McGonagall because they learned last year she wouldn't believe them, because they were planning on doing exactly that and then just... didn't, with absolutely no explanation why they suddenly changed their minds. Not even a hint!

Or maybe a hint. What else happens in that staff meeting?

The staffroom door banged open again. For one wild moment, Harry was sure it would be Dumbledore. But it was Lockhart, and he was beaming.

"So sorry--dozed off--what have I missed?"

Let's just say, hypothetically, that you are a fraud who actually can't handle monsters the way you've claimed, and it's a thorn in your side that one of your students is more famous than you without even trying. Say, hypothetically, that you're heading toward the staff room for a cup of tea or whatever, and you see Famous Harry Potter and his sidekick run inside. Then you hear an announcement that suggests another attack has happened, meaning Hagrid wasn't the one releasing the monster. Rats. Now someone's sure to ask you to deal with it. How to get out of it?

Maybe kill two birds with one stone--the Potter boy is suspicious, a Parselmouth like Salazar Slytherin and on the scene of the attacks far too often. And he's conveniently on hand now. So Disillusion yourself for a moment and Confund him and his little friend into hiding instead of whatever they were here to do and into coming to you later. Then Obliviate them (but not before gloating--it's so hard not getting recognition for what you're really good at!) and arrange things so that it appears you stopped them as they were releasing the monster--and tragically, your valiant defense resulted in them losing their memories. And now you're so overcome with grief at the tragic loss of two bright young lives to evil that you can't bear to stay in the castle another moment! You'll pack and be gone at once!

Maybe not. Maybe it was something else entirely. But it's very, very hard to read that scene and not see some kind of nefarious influence preventing the boys from just telling the teachers what they'd discovered as they had been planning to do only moments before.

If not Lockhart, who else might be lurking? Dobby, for one. But it's hard to see Dobby's motive, unless he had explicit orders to stop anyone who tried to say openly what Slytherin's monster is or stop it. Dumbledore can't be ruled out. He's supposedly not in the castle, but Fawkes could almost certainly have teleported him right back in after he left. And failing that, there's a tunnel from Honeydukes into the castle he might know about, plus assorted other tunnels which may or may not be caved in or blocked at the moment. For all we know, Dumbledore could be living in the Room of Requirement and wandering around Disillusioned anytime he pleases. (Won't truly have left Hogwarts, hah! What a lovely private joke if he meant that literally.) Still, Confunding Harry and Ron seems a bit... active for him. And much harder to justify to himself if he wants to believe he's really Great and Good, not just convince other people of that.

If Rowling wanted to ensure that Harry and Ron felt they had no choice but to mount a rescue themselves, she not only failed, but did everything possible to make it look like something--or someone--was actively preventing them from asking for help. I mean, you just don't set up your characters as being in the middle of an attempt to ask for help and then have them not do so for no reason whatsoever unless you want people to see that as fishy. Whatever the most likely explanation is, the whole thing is horribly suspicious.

On the bright side, this all makes CoS more interesting to me. I always unaccountably bounced off it, even though all the elements of it ought to be Sunnyskywalker catnip (secret chambers! historical mysteries! dastardly plots! spooky atmosphere!). I chalked this up to the major plotholes which Rowling didn't even attempt to paper over, like Harry and Ron inexplicably changing their minds about telling anyone about the basilisk until they also inexplicably decide to go to Lockhart. At least looking for an in-universe reason for this bizarre behavior allows for the possibility of a plot that makes sense instead of just watching the author march puppets through set-pieces.

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

Regarding Albus (lack of) actions, at least part of it has to do with his promise/threat to expel Harry and Ron if they are caught breaking *any* rule, after they got off lightly for breaking the Statute of Secrecy with the flying car stunt at the beginning of the year. Dumbles does not want to expel Harry, so he must finds ways to cover for him.

And then Harry and Ron naively believe the threat so they are unwilling to reveal anything that might tie them to any wrong-doing. Showing that Hermione wasn't the only one to see expulsion as a fate worse than death.

Following Terri's last thread, now I wonder if Albus' threat of expulsion was made deliberately in order to drive Harry into clandestine action, even before Dumbles suspected anything particularly dangerous might happen that year.

[sunnyskywalker]

But that still wouldn't stop him from, say, arranging for an accident to spoil the potion. And then casually mention the new bathroom cleaning schedule he's arranging, or that he's sending Myrtle a ghost therapist, or something that would rule out that bathroom as a private brewing place. Nobody gets caught, but the plan gets scuppered.

Or he could wriggle out of that promise somehow. Okay, this plan isn't as obviously heroic as saving Ginny's life at the end of the year, which he uses to get out of his promise as the story stands, but how would anyone know for sure while it's in the planning stages? If Draco had been the culprit (say, having written in the Diary himself and then brought it to school to open the Chamber at Tom's orders) and they proved he was involved, wouldn't their plan have retroactively appeared like a bold search for the truth that helped save the school? So even if he "caught" them before they actually executed it, he might have used their noble intentions and the fact that no one had been permanently injured yet to argue for leniency. And then, I don't know, advise them on how to make better plans in the future (like asking whether they'd scouted the Slytherin common room's location), but Dumbledore isn't really any better at it than they are, so maybe not.

That does sound horrible possible, though, doesn't it? Which is why I'm wondering whether he isn't just going oops, caught by my own words, but actually sees a positive benefit to allowing this plan to go forward. And if so, what is it?

Questioning Myrtle

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

I think we can disregard the idea that Harry’s impression that no one had ever before asked Myrtle about her death means no one ever had. Not only is Harry just a little kid, and he’s an unobservant little kid. Even a keen observer might not be able to tell the difference between, “Oh boy, I get to tell my story for the first time ever!” and “Oh boy, I get to tell my story for the first time in fifty years!” Or even, “Oh boy, I get to tell my story again to another new audience!” The simplest storyline is that Dumbledore questioned Myrtle soon after she manifested as a ghost, and did not Obliviate her.

Her manifestation at Hogwarts was not, however, immediate. She haunted Olive Hornby for a while before the Ministry banished her to the school. It could have been quite some time before Dumbledore would have had easy access to Myrtle in her bathroom. If, however, he had been serious about protecting Hagrid, he could have found a way to talk to her sooner, while she was still bothering the Hornbys.

One has to wonder why no one at the Ministry bothered to question Myrtle either. The bureaucracy must be particularly bad if the department in charge of exorcising annoying ghosts can’t be troubled to notify Magical Law Enforcement when the ghost involved is that of a recent murder victim.

Re: Questioning Myrtle

[sunnyskywalker]

It would be a pretty huge oversight. Especially since the fact that Hagrid was expelled but not sent to Azkaban suggests he was convicted of releasing Aragog but that they weren't sure, or couldn't prove, that Aragog had killed Myrtle. So you'd think there would be some sort of memo to all departments that might encounter ghosts to please be on the lookout for Myrtle and bring her in for questioning if she manifests. And for all we know, they did, and concluded that whatever she saw wasn't a giant spider--but not having Dumbledore's knowledge that Tom was the likely culprit and a Parselmouth, didn't have enough information to guess what she did see.

Regardless of the Ministry's actions, I think it's safe to assume that sometime during Myrtle's relocation to Hogwarts and 50 years of girls complaining about Myrtle crying in the bathroom, Dumbledore has realized who she is and had a little chat. So he might have had a good guess what the monster is for decades, or at least have narrowed it down to a short list which would quickly have been narrowed to one when things started up again.

Incidentally, why was Myrtle relocated to Hogwarts rather than, say, her own home? Did her parents not want an imprint reminding them of their daughter's death? Is it just easier to contain ghosts at Hopgwarts?

Re: Questioning Myrtle

[oryx_leucoryx]

When he saw that the film in Collin's camera was burnt he realized it was the same monster and culprit as the previous time, so I think he figured out what the monster was long before Harry's days.

Re: Questioning Myrtle

[sunnyskywalker]

It's hard to see a way he couldn't have at the very least had "basilisk" at the top of his shortlist, and the camera confirmed to him that (a) he was right, and (b) this was the real deal somehow, not a copycat.

Okay, how about this: Dumbledore knows it's a basilisk, and his challenge is to find a way to "brilliantly deduce" what the monster is (for the first time! honest!) and alert everyone... without painting a target on the back of Harry, the only known Parselmouth in the castle. Which is a tough one, I'll grant.

Re: Questioning Myrtle

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

I’m operating on the assumption that the easiest and most natural place for a ghost to haunt is the site of her death—her ground state, as it were—and that it requires some sort of emotional energy to go elsewhere: love, guilt, desire for vengeance, or the like. Myrtle’s anger at having been teased and her desire for revenge drives her to haunt Olive Hornby, but when that option is blocked by the Ministry exorcists, she returns to the bathroom at Hogwarts where she died. She could possibly return to her family home since she has an emotional attachment there, but if he’s muggleborn, the Ministry would probably block that simply as a matter of policy.

The Grey Lady and the Bloody Baron could have stayed to haunt their death-site in Albania, but Hogwarts was Helena’s family home, so she returned there. The Baron must have lived in the area as well, and he has an emotional attachment to Helena—a powerful combination of love and guilt—so he returned to be near her.

Re: part 2

[sunnyskywalker]

Exactly, that's the problem with the whole Dobby/Malfoy plot: no matter how you try to arrange it, something just doesn't seem to fit right.

As you said, if Lucius's whole plot is "unload this diary and maybe make Arthur look bad (and hopefully Dumbledore by association, though he and Arthur aren't besties so it will only be a small step in the right direction), then what are the "terrible things" Dobby's so worried will happen? But if the plot Dobby has in mind has nothing to do with Voldemort, then why did he give the sort-of clue about "Not You-Know-Who... EXCEPT IT TOTALLY IS FORM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW" at the beginning of the year and then confirm that's what he meant at the end with the "he could be freely named [under his original name]" bit? And if he meant Dumbledore having unspecified plans for Harry (which does sound nicely sinister and I like it!), how does that fit in with his Voldemort hint or with assuming terrible things are going to happen this very year instead of when Harry comes of age?

It's like trying to put together a puzzle where all the pieces are almost the right shape, from a distance, but just aren't quite right.

Re: part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Looks like Dobby knew more about the diary than Lucius did.

Suppose Lucius only wanted to get rid of the diary (and get Arthur in trouble), but Dobby, once he realized whose diary it was, knew it could be used to open the Chamber, so just assumed that was what Lucius was planning to do? And it ended up happening because the Weasleys never asked where Ginny got a diary from?

Re: part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

As Terri already said, the relationship between Dobby and Lucius is most similar to that between Kreacher and Sirius, and just as Kreacher plotted to use any loophole in the rules of elfdom to bring Sirius to his doom, so was Dobby plotting against Lucius. We have no reason to think Dobby cared about anyone other than Harry. For all we know, the entire diary plot was Dobby's own idea, he may have tricked Lucius into the series of actions that got the diary into Ginny's cauldron. And I think only at the very end of the year Lucius found out he had been instrumental to the troubles at Hogwarts.

Re: part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

It's pretty old by now. There was one fanfic explaining Lucius' disheveled appearance at Hogwarts at the end of COS (when he heard that Ginny was taken into the Chamber he realized Draco was equally endangered) and some discussions following that.

Lucius's appearance

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

And my fanfics are not here, but (mostly) on my lj.

Re: part 2

[sunnyskywalker]

Oh, Dobby being wrong about what Lucius was saying, but then turning out to be sort-of right by accident. I see what you're getting at! (What a lucky coincidence for him; then he can tell Harry he was right all along with a clear conscience. Might not even realize himself he was initially wrong.) Hmm... Can we find anything more that hints at this?

I wouldn't say Dobby isn't that bright, necessarily. He might be very clever and very good at playing the role of how people expect house-elves to behave. Yep, just a bumbling servant here, no need to look closer! Oh, Dobby is ever so grateful to the Great Harry Potter for his help! Looked at this way, Dobby's death happens not because he doesn't recognize the danger, but because he's arrogant enough to think he can get away with dramatic one-liners to Bellatrix because he's never gone up against anyone he couldn't manipulate before. But that wouldn't necessarily stop him from being mistaken on another occasion, even if he didn't realize it.

I'll have to think more on this!

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

And, um, either Dumbledore wanted a walk because he was restless, or Hogwarts staff never summon house-elves.

WIthin the story itself, we could just assume that Dumbledore, being older, has some trouble sleeping through the night and gets up to wander. He was wandering when he found the Room of Requirements - he said he needed the bathroom, but wouldn't he have had a bathroom in or very near his quarters? He must have been just wandering around.

Curiously, no one says exactly how she arrived at the scene in the first place. (Or whether she's in her tartan bathrobe or day wear.)

Am guessing that Minerva was in her day clothes, probably patrolling, or the kids would have noticed. They noticed her bathrobe in Sorcerer's Stone, and they notice Dumbledore's dressing gown here. Since they don't notice her in her night clothes, either they became jaded to her tartan bathrobe, or she was dressed as they usually see her.

I like the idea of Gilderoy Confunding Ron and Harry. That makes more sense than just forgetting that they planned to tell McGonagall about the basilisk.

[sunnyskywalker]

I can go with restless Dumbledore. If he regularly wanders (and maybe Disillusions himself while wandering, so as not to bother anyone?), he also has plenty of opportunities to see all sorts of things going on after hours by almost entirely innocent coincidence. Though now I'm wondering what he's seen, and whether he's ever acted on any of that knowledge before the night he revealed himself to chat with Harry about the Mirror of Erised. Or afterward.

Yeah, it's just too much to ask us to believe they forgot, all on their own.

Parseltongue

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

In mulling over this, I've also come to the conclusion that Year 2 and the Chamber of Secrets is just as much a test by Albus as Year One's gauntlet to the Stone.

I think you're entirely correct that Albus certainly should know (and probably has for years) that Myrtle died after hearing a 'hissing' and that it is probably a basilisk that was responsible. Not only does half the school suspect Harry after the outing at the Dueling Club of his parseltongue abilities, but we even see Albus apparently legilmenize Harry on Halloween, at the scene of a petrified Mrs. Norris.

And I (along with probably everyone else at the time) was huffy about Albus apparently suspecting Harry because he spoke 'snake'. What I didn't realize until now (and shame on me for not doing so), but what Albus knew (that we didn't) was that Harry was a horcrux. He wasn't legilmenizing Harry to see whether he was guilty, but to see whether Voldy's soul had taken over. That's the whole reason he had that little device that indicated 'they' were still 'two', that he checked after the Arthur/Naigini incident.

I'm sure some of you got here before me, but this is why Albus so stressed the importance that Harry was able to pull the Sword from the Hat. "Only a true Gryffindor..." Harry passed the test - again.

And why had I not recognized before that the Hat is a symbolic stand-in for the Stone (that King Arthur pulled the sword from)?

Re: Parseltongue

[oryx_leucoryx]

In any case, we can know that by early November Albus was certain somehow Riddle was releasing a basilisk, and by December that he was doing so other than via the soul-bit in Harry. Is there any kind of justification for not telling the students to carry mirrors and look for the monster around corners? How did he expect Riddle to react to such a warning being issued?

[sunnyskywalker]

The only possibility I have come up with in this discussion is that he thinks he couldn't warn everyone without implicating Parselouth Harry. But surely he should be more motivated to find a way to protect Harry from the fallout? Or not. He plans for the kid to die; why not unjustly in Azkaban instead of by suicide after learning of the terrible betrayal by his mentor? Both are pretty horrible. I guess he really doesn't care about any suffering but Harry's.

[muisjelief.livejournal.com]

The mirrors might not be sufficient to save people. If you turn to stone after seeing a basilisk, what's to say the basilisk can't progress to full murder if given time? Riddle might have found it prudent to immediately run after finding a victim, both because he found it difficult to control Ginny and because he didn't want to be witnessed or found by others. What if he guessed that Dumbledore likes to wander the castle disillusioned? And he knew about staff and prefects patrolling and such. So that's why no one ended up dying this time around.

Dumbledore might realistically think that if he literally says that it's a basilisk not only will the school have to close, but Harry will be implicated. During CoS it was still possible to pretend like the monster was just some mysterious influence that temporarily harmed students, and the connection to the incident fifty years ago wasn't widely understood, so maybe people speculated it was a 7th year potions student testing their new invention or so?

[sunnyskywalker]

Trying to avoid implicating Harry is the best defense for Dumbledore I can think of. But this is partly because the wizarding world has basically no ability to investigate crimes. Dumbledore couldn't Disillusion a two-way mirror and hang it outside Myrtle's bathroom and set it to record into a Pensieve so he can see who goes in to let out the monster? Muggles had that figured out way earlier...

[muisjelief.livejournal.com]

I doubt he made the connection that the entrance to the chamber was in Myrtle's bathroom. I can't recall whether her body was found in the bathroom or merely close-by, in any case it's not immediately suggestive of any relation to the monster's lair. And the later attacks during Harry's time might not suggest this either. If Hogwarts truly has all those moving stairs and teleporting rooms and if Riddle was able to roam at night then creating some kind of proximity map of the attacks in order to determine a central location the monster could have come from might have been a futile effort.

Close inspection of the bathroom does reveal an S etched into one of the pipes, but it strikes me as very easy to overlook. I don't know to what extent DD investigated the attacks at that time and whether he was the person responsible for examining the bathroom. I imagine that Riddle rather than Slytherin created this entrance, but DD is no plumbing expert that he should detect peculiarities in the room and the magic might be subtle enough it is not easy to detect. By the way, perhaps the death of a witch by a highly powerful magical creature fuzzed any sort of magic radar for alterations made.

Later on he might have questioned Myrtle but overlooked thoroughly investigating the location of the monster since his focus was on Riddle's exploits. After all, it's not that difficult for Albus to believe that if a creature exists at all it's not Slytherin's legendary monster but just a substitute acquired by Riddle. I also don't know if Myrtle's testimony would have been conclusive to establish the fact it's a monster, given that she might have resisted attempts to explain herself in a clear fashion. She did have a crush on Harry, I doubt she fancied Dumbledore.

[sunnyskywalker]

Myrtle says she came out of the stall, saw the eyes, and died. Unless Albus never questioned her at all, this suggests that Tom (and some sort of monster, probably) entered the bathroom for some reason. Which isn't much on its own, but then the first attack in Harry's year was also right outside the same bathroom. That ought to be enough to at least set up Invisible Magical Security Cam #1 outside. And he could always set up more at other points around the castle.

Which, yes, might not work due to some magical interference or Tom finding them and taking them out, but that's no reason not to try. We have no evidence that Dumbledore tried any sort of monitoring other than wandering the castle personally and maybe asking portraits (who must not have seen Ginny or were Obliviated if they did). The kids also don't so much as wonder whether there's any sort of magical monitoring system that could be set up, even though Hermione definitely ought to have heard of security cameras and Harry wasn't so isolated as not to have heard of them.

Basically I'm more bothered by the fact that nobody tries any sort of investigation or seriously researches ways to protect themselves from various monsters (which might be ineffective, but better than not trying anything, you would think) than the lack of any particular method. They just wander around wibbling about how there's nothing anyone can do and hoping that they'll just stumble across the culprit if they patrol enough. I would be absolutely fine with everyone's efforts failing--more drama, after all! But they just seem so passive and willfully helpless that it sucks a lot of the tension out for me.

Dumbledore in particular seems like he ought to be able to try something more than wandering around and hoping for the best. Heck, if nothing else, he could just straight-up tell Harry after the big Parselmouth reveal that he's had a sudden insight that maybe the monster is some sort of snake and ask for Harry's help since he has a special gift that might save lives in theses circumstances. Has Harry heard anything odd that no one else has? Naturally he will find a way to keep Harry's name out of it to keep others from getting the wrong idea... If he is afraid Harry is being possessed, he could use this opportunity to investigate deeper than a quick surface Legilimency session allows, and if it's someone else, Harry might help him locate that someone else. Maybe this wouldn't work either. Maybe a different plan would be better. But again, he could at least try something more.

[muisjelief.livejournal.com]

Well, it need not suggest anything other than that the killer entered the bathroom looking for a victim. While the bathroom could have been one site for the entrance to the chamber, there could have been more. Perhaps there were more, and I bet it wasn't the entrance that Riddle used to first access the Chamber anyhow. Is it certain that the bathroom was out of order only because of Myrtle haunting it or was it put out of order earlier to facilitate Tom's additions (assuming he created the entrance)? In case of the latter that should have provided a strong hint for Dumbledore there was something wrong with that place.

An in-universe explanation could be that it honestly does not occur to wizards to set up video monitoring given their dismissal of the muggle world. I presume that if Dumbledore wants to keep tabs on Harry he will have portraits, staff, ghosts and house elves reporting to him, he will legilimize him and he might have some previously existing conduits like monitoring devices in common rooms only known to him and such, although that's speculation. But to explicitly set up video cameras throughout the castle seems like the sort of thing a wizard might not consider. By the way I don't think Pensieves can record events, so it needs to be new technology.

Various other issues: maybe the castle itself doesn't like monitoring (or there are laws against it, & certainly the monitoring would have to happen in secret); maybe the ambient magic of the castle interferes with such attempts; maybe the magical technology is not there yet and Dumbledore would run into implementation issues such as data storage or security; maybe there were multiple promising sites and it wasn't feasible to cover all of them. Hogwarts is a very large castle after all, in my imagination it's about the size of a castle in the Castlevania games. :)

In general you're correct that nobody ever seems to do much with the magic that they possess. I like to think that if I was in charge of strategy on either camp I could have been more effective than Voldemort or Dumbledore, but alas. Theorizing about the books always suffers from having to assume that Dumbledore is often omnipresent and omnipotent but exercises restraint in order to allow the plot to play out in a certain way for arcane reasons we can only speculate about.

And well, the wizarding world is oddly bad at security measures in general. Let's not forget that this is the same world where the ministry 1. knows that DEs place people under Imperius control 2. there exist anti-Imperius spells 3. these spells are not standard procedure upon entering the ministry. Same goes for polyjuice. Similarly there should be wards in Hogwarts that note the name of every person entering or leaving its premises, including alerts and alarms. If the Marauder's Map can do it then Dumbledore should be able to. It's the usual problem of inventing magic that can do anything, but then having characters that never use it to solve any problems.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

I had the thought that Dumbledore didn't want to reveal that there was a basilisk roaming around because he didn't want the school to close because, if the school did close, then he wouldn't be able to figure out whom Tom was possessing. But you make a good point that this could have been determined using some kind of recording device.

Maybe the Chamber had more than one entrance?

[sunnyskywalker]

It would have been a very logical thing to do, designing the Chamber with more than one entrance. Hm, well, it was Salazar who designed it, so maybe he really did think of that.

Like I said, I'm not partial to any particular method of investigation. I just wish someone had tried something more than wandering around at night and hoping to see something.