Love in HP

[torchedsong.livejournal.com]

Since Valentine's Day is close by, I thought this topic would be fitting to bring up and ramble about until I get it off my chest.

Here comes a few (potentially) silly questions I have about love as a reoccurring and major theme in the HP books: is love a redemptive and saving force? Is it a reflection of our inner nature and morals? Does it make us better or worse than we are? Is it proof we’re capable of good? Or is it simply a nice message to have in a children’s series i.e. love is more powerful than anything?

Voldemort is said to be incapable of love. He’s the product of an unhappy and coercive union; therefore, he’s doomed from the moment he’s born. Little Tom Riddle never had a chance.

Harry is said to have an amazing ability to love. His parents died trying to protect him and Lily gave him her magical protection because of her sacrifice. It doesn’t matter if Harry grew up in a terrible and neglectful household and grows up to experience a great deal of horrible things; he’s saved from the moment he’s born. He has the love of his friends and mentor figures too.

Dumbledore fell in love with the wrong man and suffered for it. He tries to rectify his mistake and… I’m not sure. Dumbledore confuses the heck out of me. He’s made critical mistakes in the name of love for Grindelwald but is still venerated despite his morally dubious self. He leads a long and admirable life and is seen as the epitome of good. I suppose he’s “saved” in a way too?

And then there’s Snape. He fell in love with the right woman but chose to follow his harmful ambitions and suffered for it. He gets Lily killed, shows remorse and strives to atone for the rest of his life. He remains slavishly devoted to Lily in exchange for nothing. He leads a miserable, isolated, and brutal life and succumbs to a miserable, isolated, and brutal death. He’s doomed from the moment he called Lily a “mudblood” (maybe even before - when he’s sorted into Slytherin). Beyond being branded a pitiful and tragic figure, I don’t think he was saved or redeemed by love at all. Although some fans disagree. I go back and forth sometimes too.

Lastly, we have the Malfoys. They’re established as a selfish and craven prejudiced family. And yet - they love each other. It’s Narcissa’s love for Draco which pushes for his protection. They walk away relatively unscathed from the war, other than their hurt pride and reputation. Love saved them, although it didn’t fully redeem them as moral figures in the story.

(There’s also love between other characters, such as the Dursleys’ love for their son, Bellatrix’s love for Voldemort, Tonks/Lupin, other romances, and so on. But I’m focusing on the big examples with the most significance to the overall plot.)

Love is important in the HP series. It’s heralded as a great power to have against evil and corruption. But does it - in a strange way - reveal how frozen the characters are? Harry is empowered by love because he’s the hero and innately good. Voldemort has no use for love because he’s the villain and innately evil. Dumbledore screws up greatly for love, but it’s all cool because he’s innately wonderful. Snape is innately a horrible person who made bad choices, but he loved Lily - so let’s be magnanimous and grant him a modicum of praise (but no proper redemption). The Malfoys are innately selfish and shady people, but they have love as a family - so let’s be magnanimous and grant them some praise too (but no proper redemption either).

My thoughts are all over the place. I’m a rambling type of thinker. I think JKR was going for the idealistic message that love is powerful and the most valuable thing in the world capable of defeating evil and revealing the humanity in unscrupulous individuals. However, it’s also connected to who you are innately as a person. But why does it have to be?

Why does Voldemort have to be “incapable of love” to be evil rather than his actions and choices as a person? Why does Harry have his parents and his ability to love praised to prove he’s capable of being a hero rather than his own actions and choices as a person? Why does love make Snape and the Malfoys worthy of recognition instead of their own actions and choices regardless of love? If it were not for their love for someone, they would be considered despicable and unworthy of mercy? And Dumbledore - well, he gets to love a big bad boy, mess up, and move on to be ultra powerful and admired because he’s untouchable (despite JKR’s attempt to give him shades of grey in DH).

And why is Lily’s love for Harry so special that it creates a unique protection spell? Have no other mothers or fathers in the history of the Wizarding World died to protect their child? Because only Harry can be the ultimate hero empowered by love?

Ah, I’m done for now. A lot of rhetorical questions. Love is weird. Or maybe I need to not take it too seriously… but I’m going to anyways.

Comments

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

On Friendship:

Ron and Hermione, meanwhile, do try to show Harry acceptance at some points in the series, but as they are (in effect) his sidekicks, and secondary characters, this is rarely a relationship of equals. They do the same things he does; all three involve themselves in the same quests which have the same objectives (defeat Voldemort).

The closest we get is Book One, where all three demonstrate selfless bravery in order to rescue the others (Harry by taking down the troll, Hermione by risking trouble saving Harry from ‘Snape’ during the match, and Ron by sacrificing himself during the chess game). Harry seems happier in that book, and more generous; he buys sweets for Ron, Neville and Hermione, and is more than glad to share them around.

In PS their friendship is purer; by CoS it is becoming a sort of paint-by-numbers adventure series. Ron becomes The Sidekick, and Hermione The Nerd/the infodump.

Hermione does try to inculcate good study habits into him, but this is brushed off as nagging; and we never see a counter from Harry. He never points out - gently - that perhaps she is a bit too exacting; nor do he or Ron ever attempt to correct their study habits. Conversely, we don’t see any change in Hermione’s behaviour either. She fails to grow out of her know it all manner and try to make other friends outside the Golden Trio. If anything, the three can’t be said to be friends at the end of the series.

The R/Hr/H (friendship) moment that stands out most in the later books is in OotP, where Ron and Hermione make Murtlap Essence for Harry in book 5 (he repays them by ranting about Sirius Black, without a hint of gratitude). Much of the rest of the later books involves them bickering or Harry capslocking - or Hermione committing egregious crimes.

In fairness, Harry does start up the DA, which is a brave thing to do. But starting up a group to protest against unfair rules is motivated as much by indignation as by any concern for others. In fact, perhaps because it’s Rowling, the DA chapters in OotP smack much more of “But it’s not fair!” than the sort of discipline, vision or self-sacrifice that motivates a good leader. If we think of the Harry in the Sacrifices Arc, we can see that that Harry truly cares about people. Canon!Harry’s “saving people thing” is just that - it is not real sacrifice because it doesn’t spring from real love. Yes, it may come from a desire to get people out of danger, but the emotionally stunted Harry we see throughout the series is incapable of selfless love for all humanity and all sentient creatures. He is not incapable of any finer feelings whatsoever, but nor is he the leader the WW is looking for. He has little training and even less prudence. Not only does he never seek out extra training, he slacks off in his normal classes too. As he himself points out, half his encounters with LV are fuelled by pure luck, and this manifests itself again when Rowling needs to resort to a lucky potion because she’s realised her hero can’t hold his own against an experienced teacher.

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

Harry doesn’t make any attempt to get along with Snape during Occlumency and actually intrudes upon his privacy. To be fair, as written, Snape went about it in a horribly invasive way. Had Rowling not written him as an awful teacher, this might have actually been an enjoyable reading experience.

Harry’s pity towards Luna at her father’s house (DH) is not love, either, strictly speaking. It is a sort of superiority. I think it’s meant to be read as empathy, but it comes off as shallow when he has done very little to get to know her over the years. She is always the Manic Pixie Girl, the “comic” relief, relegated to the sidelines.

What of Sirius? Harry obviously enjoys Sirius’ company a great deal, and he clearly cares about him. But Sirius is always avuncular, and he is one of the closest people Harry has had to a parent. Never mind that he isn’t a fit guardian, he’s better than the Dursleys and he seems to have Harry’s best interests at heart. But what, ultimately, does his death teach Harry?

Harry’s “saving people thing” is motivated by recklessness and impulsivity. It may also be a result of trauma - how, I have no idea.

As for Dumbledore, Harry idolises him. Why, I don’t know. Probably because he is genial and “twinkling”. But Dumbledore has done very little for him. In fact, his decision to leave Harry with the Dursleys:

a) emotionally stunts Harry, or at least doesn’t do anything to teach him about healthy relationships
b) damages Harry’s chances to learn magic outside of school
c) puts paid to his chances of being a leader.

So what is the real redemptive power of love in the series? Not much. There are very few real, positive instances of love-as-saving -grace in the series.

[torchedsong.livejournal.com]

Harry doesn’t make any attempt to get along with Snape during Occlumency and actually intrudes upon his privacy. To be fair, as written, Snape went about it in a horribly invasive way. Had Rowling not written him as an awful teacher, this might have actually been an enjoyable reading experience.

This makes me wonder, what was the ultimate point of the Occlumency lessons in the long-run? To heighten Voldemort as a threat if Harry leaves his mind wide open? Harry ends up defeating Voldemort without the help of Occlumency, so it didn't matter all that much for him to learn it.

Or were the lessons meant to tell us how awful of a teacher Snape is? We knew that already. To tell us how Snape and Harry can't get along? We knew that already too. And Harry looking in the Pensieve didn't make much of a difference either. He is disturbed by his father's actions for about 5 minutes and then moves on with his life. It doesn't change Harry's perception of Snape, the Marauders, his parents, and so forth. Everything stays the same.

[Luna] is always the Manic Pixie Girl, the “comic” relief, relegated to the sidelines.

I like Luna, but you're right. Luna is the adorable yet peculiar girl who isn't too significant to the overall plot. At least she gave some extra page time for Ravenclaws and had three or so nice moments with Harry.

But what, ultimately, does [Sirius'] death teach Harry?

I'd say: absolutely nothing. Harry's lack of reflection after the Ministry incident in OOTP was a major disappointment.

As for Dumbledore, Harry idolises him. Why, I don’t know. Probably because he is genial and “twinkling”.

It makes sense to me why a Harry as a child would look up to Dumbledore and see him as impeccable. He is presented as a grandfatherly figure who offers advice, refuge, and prestige within the Wizarding world. But Harry as a young adult should've have grown beyond Dumbledore's influence. In a coming-of-age story, the protagonist is supposed to mature beyond the guidance of their mentor figure and stop seeing them as foolproof. Harry never gets there. He continues to be Dumbledore's follower instead of his own man. It's why I was not impressed with JKR attempting to give Dumbledore shades of grey; Harry forgives him in seconds and it doesn't offer any long-lasting effects. Dumbledore's shadier qualities are swept under the rug and deemed irrelevant in Harry's eyes.

So what is the real redemptive power of love in the series? Not much. There are very few real, positive instances of love-as-saving -grace in the series.

I think JKR was going for love as redemptive, but it's a debate whether she succeeded or failed to show it properly in the text itself.

Thank you for your comments! You've raised thought-provoking questions and answers for this topic.

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

You know, that’s a great point about the Occlumency lessons. I think I wondered this sort of obliquely myself, while reading OotP for the first time, but I didn’t have the skills at that point to articulate why it didn’t sit right with me. The entire book felt very disjointed, but it wasn’t until later that I started to read critically and pick up on some of the issues.

Unfortunately I think SWM was part of the point of showing us those sequences. It was an attempt to show us a more sympathetic Snape.

I don’t blame Harry for being pissed off that Snape dived into his head and yanked out his memories. There are gentler ways of approaching something so private, and Snape had no business being as antagonistic as he was, or as oblique. Really, “clear your mind” is not an instruction that I would expect a child like Harry to understand how to do. At least Snape could have shown him some techniques.

Harry, too, holds the Idiot Ball, and doesn’t ask questions or try different strategies - he just sulks. Rather than being civil to each other, they continue to antagonise one another for the dramaz. Harry’s fuse is shorter than a matchstick (Harrycrux flaring to life, perhaps?), and Snape does not even attempt to mollify him. So, bond? What bond? Presumably Snape’s memories are meant to show Harry that he and Snape are Not So Different, but it’s too little too late. It doesn’t feel organic.

As you said, nothing comes out of this little escapade. Harry doesn’t learn anything or change his behaviour towards anyone.

Totally agree about Harry never achieving real independence! We are evidently meant to admire him for being “Dumbledore’s man through and through.”

Yeah, I know she was going for love as a redemptive power, but you really have to read between the lines for that :)

[torchedsong.livejournal.com]

The very, very cynical side of me speculates that the point of the Occlumency lessons was to give the reader more reasons to distrust and dislike Snape. Because, ya know, there weren't enough reasons already. XD

And if I allow myself to embrace my cynicism further, I think the point of "Snape's Worst Memory" wasn't to show a sympathetic side to Snape, but to instill future bread crumbs to the "shocking" revelation of Snape and Lily being close friends.

When I first read SWM, I also assumed it was meant to present Snape in a more down-to-earth and sympathetic light. Having Snape be a victim of bullying provided a challenge: acknowledging the teacher who is cruel to his students was once a student who had cruelty inflicted on him - and by courageous Gryffindors at that. You had to acknowledge bullying is wrong, no matter whom it happened to - even when the victim is the present-day mean teacher whom you hate and the perpetrators are the men you like and admire.

Well, after DH came out, I realized I was wrong. The purpose of SWM wasn't to humanize Snape or present a commentary on bullying and the consequences of human failings. No, it was about Snape feeling guilty over calling Lily a “mudblood” because it caused him to lose her friendship. Another hint to JKR’s amazing plot twist of “Snape loved Lily.” -_-

When it comes to the Occlumency lessons, I put the blame on everyone. I blame Snape for not teaching Harry properly. I blame Harry for not putting more effort into learning anything about Occlumency. I blame Dumbledore for keeping information from both Snape and Harry and assuming it would have no consequences to how they interact with one another.

Maybe this is another case of JKR squeezing her characters into pre-defined roles and having them act incompetent and static for the sake of the plot. Characters aren't allowed to change and grow because that wouldn't take the story in the direction JKR wanted. So Snape remains a bad teacher, Harry brushes the Pensieve memories aside, and Dumbledore twinkles and offers platitudes from a distance. Nothing changes.

Totally agree about Harry never achieving real independence! We are evidently meant to admire him for being “Dumbledore’s man through and through.”

JKR couldn't decide between two wildly different messages concerning Dumbledore. On one hand, Dumbledore is the ultimate mentor figure whom everyone should have faith in because he's the epitome of good. On the other hand, Dumbledore is fallible and greatly flawed just like everybody else. It gives me whiplash. Harry being "Dumbledore's man through and through" further solidified how passive and unquestioning Harry is, which is a shame.

Yeah, I know she was going for love as a redemptive power, but you really have to read between the lines for that :)

I think JKR should've stuck with love being a simple and nice message in a children's book instead of trying to make it into something redemptive. Redemption for "sinners" like Snape and the Malfoys requires compassion for them as people and a nuanced and transformative view of their characters - none of which, in my opinion, JKR had for her Slytherins.

[sunnyskywalker]

I also blame the entire Hogwarts teaching culture for being terrible. Where else did Snape learn his techniques but by trying to emulate his own teachers, McGonagall in particular? It isn't like they have teacher training, or any concept of good pedagogical practices.

But on re-reads, it looks like Snape treats at least one Occlumency lesson like a covert child protective services investigation. No sneering at Harry being scared and hiding in a tree; he asks whose dog it was to learn more about the circumstances (i.e., was it a random neighborhood thing, or was it Harry's guardians' fault?). And by an amazing coincidence, it's at the end of that school year that Dumbledore first admits how bad the Dursleys were, and the Order threatens the Dursleys to keep them from mistreating Harry. And a few weeks later, Dumbledore impresses Harry by telling off the Dursleys for their bad parenting. Snape had to have taken his findings to the Order, and other people finding out shamed Dumbledore into belatedly sort of doing something.

Not that Harry ever figures this out.

[torchedsong.livejournal.com]

I also blame the entire Hogwarts teaching culture for being terrible. Where else did Snape learn his techniques but by trying to emulate his own teachers, McGonagall in particular? It isn't like they have teacher training, or any concept of good pedagogical practices.

If I may be blunt, I think Hogwarts in general is screwed up. The crazy staircases, dangerous creatures, weird security measures, less than ideal teaching methods.... It makes for a fun fictional setting, but once you start applying "real life" standards to it, it gets wonky.

Which is why whenever someone bellows how Snape is a horrific child abuser who shouldn't be allowed to teach, I get a split reaction. On one hand, I agree that Snape is cruel and far from a great teacher. On the other hand, I see Snape's classroom persona as hyperbolic as the rest of the school. It's the inconsistent tone again. One minute, bullying is a serious problem presented in a realistic manner. The next minute, bullying is an amusing story device presented in a nonsensical manner.

If Dumbledore cared for the emotional well-being of his students, why hire such harsh teachers? Why not have Snape doing something else with his time before Voldemort returns? As an adult, yes, Snape should know better than to be mean to students. But as headmaster, Dumbledore should know better how to run his school and implement the right teachers.

And a few weeks later, Dumbledore impresses Harry by telling off the Dursleys for their bad parenting. Snape had to have taken his findings to the Order, and other people finding out shamed Dumbledore into belatedly sort of doing something.

I remember the comment about the dog, but I never caught on to the possibility of Snape informing the Order and/or Dumbledore about the Dursleys mistreating Harry. As much as I like this idea, I don't think JKR had it in mind when Dumbledore tells off the Dursleys. Snape showing even an inkling of basic concern for Harry would be too "decent" for how canon Snape is meant to act. Which is probably another reason why the Occlumency lessons were written as a disaster that went nowhere. But that's my cynicism talking again.

[sunnyskywalker]

Yeah, the tone is what really messes it up. How can the same actions be either jolly laughs and serious abuse depending on who performs them? Either all the teachers are seriously problematic, or Snape is merely on the harsher end of what's acceptable for Hogwarts and we shouldn't worry any more about him than about McGonagall. I think she's in the running for most traumatizing teacher, myself, but I guess it's okay if you have decent hair. Or something.

JKR might not have planned it, but it fits together. And physical danger does seem to register with Snape as bad, unlike pretty much anything verbal. You don't see him sending kids into a forest of deadly monsters or making stand out in the halls to be murdered as punishment, after all. (Though in this case, the Dursleys calling Harry a freak and dressing him in embarrassing clothes is something Snape can identify with, so maybe that registers with him too.)

He might not be as alarmed as we would be, given how violent Hogwarts is, but I think it's plausible that Harry's relatives setting a vicious dog on him was enough to make him go, "Hm, I thought Dumbledore said we were protecting him? Maybe he needs reminding. And Petunia too, that cow. If his own relatives kill him off, all this will have been for nothing!"

[torchedsong.livejournal.com]

The friendship among the trio is, admittedly for me, one of the positive parts of the books because I do find their dynamic endearing sometimes. Nonetheless, there are fair criticisms to make, such as Hermione being used as a convenient info-dump, and Ron being written as too ordinary in comparison to Harry and Hermione. I also think their friendship was purer and more believable in PS/SS. JKR did a good job, in my opinion, of creating a warm and innocent atmosphere within the trio while showing their strengths separate from one another in the first book.

But as the books went on, it does seem like Ron and Hermione exist to serve Harry with little reciprocation. Ron provides Harry with the family Harry always dreamed of, and Hermione provides Harry with necessary help and knowledge on their adventures. I do think the three of them care deeply for one another from beginning to end, but they all suffer from a lack of development as individuals. If anything, I think Ron potentially changes the most out of the three.

Canon!Harry’s “saving people thing” is just that - it is not real sacrifice because it doesn’t spring from real love. Yes, it may come from a desire to get people out of danger, but the emotionally stunted Harry we see throughout the series is incapable of selfless love for all humanity and all sentient creatures.

Yes, I wouldn't describe Harry as defined by his all-embracing love for humanity. He cares for his friends, chosen family figures, and the people he likes. He is perfectly normal in that sense. But I never saw him as a Christ figure who extends his compassion towards his fellow man out of selflessness - no matter their background. I think JKR wished for her readers to see him that way and wrote his sacrifice in DH to hammer it home. But even then, it's another example of Harry blindly following Dumbledore's orders to get rid of the horcrux within him. It's not a sacrifice based on love for humanity alone. But I'm probably being too hard on Harry here because I thought his sacrifice and return to life was foreseeable. And the specters of his parents urging him to his death was creepy rather than moving for me....

Overall, I agree Harry primarily runs on luck, impulse, plot armor, and the dependence/convenience on other people in his life to guide him. Even the DA wasn't entirely made of Harry's own choice - Hermione was the one who initiated it, if I remember correctly. And it was disbanded in HBP because...it wouldn't benefit the plot anymore, I guess.

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

To be fair, although I’m no longer rabidly into the books (I’ve more or less outgrown them, even the earlier ones), there are some lovely moments in PS in particular. I think Snape’s introductory speech is one of the best pieces of writing in the whole series, and the puzzle sequence at the end is clever. It’s much more whimsical than the rest of the series.

Part of the reason I don’t buy their friendship is that I probably need to reread the books. :P Harry and Ron’s first Christmas morning at Hogwarts, for instance, is also lovely. But there are less of these quiet moments throughout the books, and I’m willing to bet that we see Harry comforting and standing by Ron less than the opposite (Ron standing by him).

But even then, it's another example of Harry blindly following Dumbledore's orders to get rid of the horcrux within him. It's not a sacrifice based on love for humanity alone. [...] And the specters of his parents urging him to his death was creepy rather than moving for me....

I entirely agree. I didn’t predict Harry’s death and resurrection, though. Speaking of, Christ went through an enormous amount of pain on the cross. His agony was palpable and he reacted to it in an entirely appropriate way. What does Harry go through? Yes, he goes through abuse, but his actual death is just a standard battle. Resurrecting him certainly won’t suddenly make him the Christ figure of the series.

Even the DA wasn't entirely made of Harry's own choice - Hermione was the one who initiated it, if I remember correctly. And it was disbanded in HBP because...it wouldn't benefit the plot anymore, I guess.

That’s an excellent point about the DA. It could’ve been used to unite the school and fight LV, especially given all the Sorting Hat’s warnings about uniting or “crumbling from within”, but instead it is just more clumsy anti-Slytherin fodder. Harry does little if anything to entice Slytherin members into the DA.

The Marietta thing could also have been handled much better - in fact, it needn’t have happened at all.

As others have pointed out, Hermione never actually stops and reflects on her behaviour towards Marietta. Having your protagonist commit an immoral act and never be changed by it is... sort of pointless and makes the character come off as sociopathic. I know people disapprove of her Memory Charms in DH, but at least she was affected by those.

[torchedsong.livejournal.com]

To be fair, although I’m no longer rabidly into the books (I’ve more or less outgrown them, even the earlier ones), there are some lovely moments in PS in particular. I think Snape’s introductory speech is one of the best pieces of writing in the whole series, and the puzzle sequence at the end is clever. It’s much more whimsical than the rest of the series.

I think JKR had a better handle on her writing in the earlier books from PS/SS to POA. It wasn't extraordinary literature, but it was a fun and moving story with colorful characters and a cozy yet eccentric magical world. The dialogue was decent and funny too. The moment in COS when Ron and Harry are bantering back-and-forth about Snape's absence before he appears to scold them for their arrival via flying car was genuinely amusing. Everything was more, as you've said, whimsical. JKR does a good job creating that sort of atmosphere; it's when she attempts to make things "deeper" and "darker" in the later books that her writing starts to fall apart for me.

But there are less of these quiet moments throughout the books, and I’m willing to bet that we see Harry comforting and standing by Ron less than the opposite (Ron standing by him).

Ron does abandon Harry in GOF and DH, but he returns and continues to support Harry despite his own insecurities and jealousy issues. Ron and Hermione's loyalty to Harry can almost be unbelievable at times. Maybe I excuse it too much. :p

And I agree about Marietta. When I was younger, it completely flew over my head how ruthless Hermione could be. JKR did explain how she loathes traitors and, well... that's probably why Hermione never reflects on scarring a student. JKR approves of Hermione's actions, so there's no need to call Hermione out on it in the text.

The DA was another missed opportunity for Harry to grow and come into his own as a leader, as well as missing the chance of uniting students across all houses. The call for house cooperation never amounted to anything either. Gryffindors are the main stars. Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs are afterthoughts. Slytherins are morally dubious at best and evil at worst.

It would've been interesting if Harry had at least one Slytherin friend or mentor figure he respected, but that would've required giving Slytherin house redeeming qualities of its own and I don't think JKR ever wanted that.