deathtocapslock | How did Dumbledore track down Slughorn?

Slughorn lived on the run for a year, never staying anywhere more than a week. Voldemort and the Death Eaters weren't able to track him down.

But Dumbledore was.

How? Does he place undetectable tracking enchantments on outgoing staff just in case he ever needs to reel them in?

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From:

sunnyskywalker

Ooh, tracking him with a blood sample makes a lot of sense. Albus quickly recognized that Tom's cave door was a blood-price door, used a blood-based charm to (allegedly) protect Harry, and is credited with discovering the twelve uses of dragon's blood. He even figured out that the "crime scene" was faked because it was the wrong kind of blood. He's almost certainly an expert in blood-based magic. So that sounds very much like something he could do. And Horace almost certainly knows that. Maybe that's why he doesn't seem creeped out that Albus found him, just annoyed? He already figured that of course Albus would be tracking him, maybe even kind of hoped for it? He didn't take much convincing--maybe he was ready to be tracked down and convinced. He just didn't want to be reduced to going begging to Albus for a nice safe(ish) hideout in the castle.

Interesting point about the Order. Hm, maybe that ties into your point about how he might know a little more about Albus than Albus likes. He doesn't want the guy comparing notes with anyone in the Order! Better to keep some distance between them. Kind of like Severus in the first war--he wasn't a member then, more of an outside contractor.

He could spin it--"You've convinced me, Horace, it would be safer for you not to join. Should the worst happen, you can always claim that you reluctantly accepted this position only for the chance to collect Harry Potter but continued stringing me along with vague promises about listening for rumors amongst your connections--which, alas, did not turn up any information of value to me. Though naturally if you should hear anything, you will tell me, privately? I will of course ensure that the information is never traced back to you..."

From:

chantaldormand

When it comes to Order and Horace I think we have to ask ourselves if he was ever asked to join and if he wanted to join.

Let's start with the other side of the cursed coin: does Horace has any interest in joining the Order? This is two-sided sword. On one hand, Albus is a talent collector just as Horace is- his collection focuses on different qualities than Horace's, but being in the Order opens door to new connections for Horace. Additionally (at least from Horace's POV) Albus could offer additional magical protections to his followers thus helping Horace hide from Voldemort. On the other hand, officially joining the Order potentially could destroy his network and cut him off from future opportunities.

So I would vote no on that issue. What fascinates me more is the first side of the cursed coin- would Albus even want Horace in the Order? It's hard to say how much Slughorn changed since the fall of Voldemort, but I get a feeling it wasn't a big change. Horace giving Albus and Harry multiple false memories before he finally shares the real memory signals that he doesn't trust Albus. But why such small detail like Tom asking about the optimal amount of Horcruxes would make Slughorn manipulate the memory? Voldemort already knows Horace knew about his research into Horcruxes. If he really was concerned about anyone discovering this info from Horace, he would kill Slughorn decades ago. Or at the very least before WW knew about his return. This means that Albus knows Slughorn won't be a loyal docile follower like Remus or Arthur. And I don't think he would tolerate in his little sect anyone who openly questions him. Snape is oathbound and smart enough to not question him openly and Sirius is under house-arrest and discredited by his fellow Order members during OotP. (and in his own house, which was mind-boggling to me when I first read OotP!)

I would say that from Horace's POV that memory is great blackmail material. (which on a sidenote if I was Horace I would congratulate Harry for being so ballsy as to ask the victim for blackmail material.) Because if someone like Rita got their hands on this memory? Journalistic awards for uncovering the genesis of Voldemort would make whoever uncovered it a celebrity. Yeah, Albus tends to cultivate a very specific image around students, but I feel like anyone involved in politics would have a very different understanding of Albus' character.

Now for how Horace re-joined Hogwarts' staff. I think you are right- Horace would prefer if Albus was the one asking him instead of the other way. He has an image to uphold and the Headmaster of a prestigious school personally asking you to be on their staff looks much better than sending your resume to the school. And if anyone from Voldemort's supporters asked he could say he really didn't want to return to Hogwarts, but Albus pressured him into it.

Dumbledore using Horace as an information source is an interesting take. I wonder if Albus could truly trust anything Horace passes when at the same Horace sabotages him with false memory. 🤔

I would love to read a short story written from Slughorn's POV that wasn't written by Rowling or her canon-clutching fans. As long as the reader separates themselves from Harry's POV, Horace is very interesting character.

From:

sunnyskywalker

He probably doesn't want Slughorn in the Order, but probably also doesn't want to make that perfectly clear from the outset--looks bad, right? Like he doesn't trust his old friend! So he probably offered a couple of times, knowing Slughorn would refuse, and then "reluctantly" gave up.

It is interesting to wonder what really scares Slughorn about that memory. He probably has figured out by 1996 that Voldemort could have killed him any summer vacation between 1945 and 1981 if he wanted to. (Did Slughorn spend the last few summers of the first war squatting in Muggle houses too, I wonder? Just in case?) Why didn't he? Does Voldemort think that isn't enough information for anyone to make good use of even if Slughorn passes it on?

I think Terri is probably on the right track that he didn't ask Slughorn hoping to get useful information in the first place. After all, Slughorn didn't tell him anything practical, did he? However he actually made the Horcruxes, he learned how somewhere else or figured it out on his own. And maybe already had by the time he talked to Slughorn. He was really blackmailing Slughorn into not letting his identity slip later, because he knew Slughorn was one of the few people who would work it out eventually. So maybe that was what Slughorn was really trying (mostly failing) to cover up--that he was foolish enough to get maneuvered into a position where he could be blackmailed, and that he'd been too cowardly to reveal Voldemort's past as Tom all these years? And the whole exercise with Harry getting the memory was more about training Harry than actually getting the memory, since learning that Voldemort once considered a seven-part soul in his teens is no proof that he actually went ahead with that number. He might have figured out that it was too unstable and gone with three, or changed his mind and decided that nine was better, or who knows what.

Whatever info Dumbledore got from Slughorn would be questionable in its accuracy and completeness, but the same is true of information he gets anywhere else. Anything Severus hears from Voldemort or his fellow Death Eaters is also likely to be incomplete or misleading, if Voldemort has the slightest scrap of competence left.

It would definitely be interesting to get non-Harry perspectives on both Dumbledore and Slughorn. I'd especially love to see Politician Dumbledore at work debating legislation and judging cases with the Wizengamot.

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Based on what he said to Harry, Horace is ashamed for not just refusing outright to discuss Horcruxes with Tom. I like Terri's take on this - Horace had no idea about Tom's early exploits at the orphanage, nor that he was already a triple or quadruple murderer at the time of the conversation, so Horace believed that this conversation was what sent Tom over the deep end and convinced him to commit multiple murders in order to become immortal.

From:

oryx_leucoryx

I'm not sure why you think Horace gave Dumbles more than one false memory? What I find interesting is that the memory was falsified in an *obvious* way. He was basically telling Dumbles that no, he wasn't actually giving him the memory... yet. Begging to being persuaded? Asking for something in return?

From:

nx74defiant

I like the idea of Horace wanting something in return. Horace has a history of quid pro quo. We learn he has built up a network of I help you, so now you help me.

From:

sunnyskywalker

Hm. Slughorn wants to keep Chosen One Harry in his club. Dumbledore wants to keep Harry from interfering in this year's plans and train him to obey orders. Maybe Slughorn was hoping for the plan Dumbledore came up with? "Make Harry get the memory from me. I'll really make him work at it. He stays out of your hair and you'll have his temporary failure to guilt-trip him with when needed, I get him at my little suppers, we both win!"