TV show reboot

[sunnyskywalker]

They haven't even finished with the Fantastic Beasts franchise, and already the books are getting a reboot, this time as a TV series. It will supposedly be "authentic to the original books." Whatever that means. JKR will be an executive producer, so maybe "authentic to what she intended to write or imagines she wrote."

I can't help but be morbidly curious. Will the Dursleys be blond? Will the reboot stick all the adults in robes instead of vaguely bohemian but mostly normal clothes? Will the Marauders generation look their ages instead of 20-30 years older? Will we get Dudley hiding in fear behind Vernon instead of eating cake, the full story of the prank, SPEW, the full set of Pensieve memories, Marietta's scarring, and Harry gleefully hexing Filch twice while his schoolmates look on and laugh? Will we get full-on flashbacks for some of the historical scenes? Will authenticity mean putting in the bits JKR totally meant to write but didn't, like the Slytherins triumphantly returning to fight? Will we get bonus material from the "ghost plots" that didn't make it into the books, like the backstory about Dean's father?

And, of course, will Harry have his mother's eyes for real this time? Since apparently that was important enough to yap about for seven whole books/eight movies...

Comments

[sunnyskywalker]

Technical note: I tried to create a new "TV" tag, but couldn't. It seems the permissions aren't set to allow members to create new tags.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Hi! I’ve been away from this livejournal/dreamwidth site for a long time and I’m glad to find a place where I may say a few things about the series in general.

I’ve been listening to a certain Harry Potter podcast that covers both movie scenes and book chapters. I’m within the climax part of PoA and the way the hosts and many of the listeners who write in to the show utterly undersell how important the entirety of the Maurauders Backstory is to PoA and to the rest of the series, will never cease to astound me. Those folks never stop B&Ming about DUMBLEDORE ASKED CALMLY and would talk about many omitted scenes in films 4-6 but would suddenly fail to realize how much of an utter *castration job* that was Kloves’ and Cuaron's treatment of PoA.

I know the writers and many commenters here have done a whole lot in analyzing HP beneath the surface levels. But the real sad thing I have come to realize in those last few years is, If the movie series after Chamber Of Secrets actually did a good adaptation of the books, then I would have watched them and GLADLY swallowed the biased bs like “Snape was a creep, all Sirius did was spook him a little bit, it was totally just a prank bro, and Lupin was a good prefect and conscience!”, if the movie PoA actually bothered to SHOWCASE the intricacies of the PoA plot and characters. Because it would actually be as enjoyable as reading the book, even with the GRYFFINDOR F YEAH biases.

Instead, we get:

— NO MENTION of “Sirius Black killed twelve muggles and one wizard with a single spell”, thus setting him up as super dangerous but Harry would grow to want to kill him, instead we get “HE’S A MURDERER” and that was IT, make way for HILARIOUS SHIT TALKING SHRUNKEN HEADS, YO.

— NO QUIDDITCH beyond the bare minimum to let Harry lose his broom and fear dementors even more and lead to Patronus lessons. Some of the people on the podcast debate whether or not Quidditch was Essential for Year 3, and I ask:

“It’s ‘Oliver Wood really wants to win the Quidditch School Cup’, “Harry producing a FULL PATRONUS (which many people apparently can never do even without real dementors nearby) at the Second Game with Ravenclaw, thus settling up the final hurdle as But Can He Do The Same Under Pressure instead of Can He At All and raising the stakes’, and perhaps most importantly, ‘Draco Malfoy already doomed Buckbeak, we cannot let him win this too’ all rolled into one. - - BUT SURE, LET’S DO WHOMPING WILLOW SEASON SHOTS INSTEAD!!! 😡

— And speaking of the Whomping Willow: NO MENTION OF HOW TO FREEZE IT (Oh wow I guess that Prongs Padfoot and Wormtail actually have to ninja-gymnastics their way into the tree tunnel every time! I’m actually admiring their dedication and resolve for them now!) and also NOTHING about Lupin having to use the tree to safely transform away from humans. What the eff is the usage for all those ESTABLISHING SHOTS of the tree then, Alfonso? Just for a freakish slapstick tree branch action scene?

— No Marauders backstory, we don’t even get confirmation that the Foursome traversed the castle and the grounds culminating in the creation of the Map. And like I said, no subplot of them Helping Lupin by roaming with him. - NO FECKING WONDER BARELY ANYONE ON THE PODCAST MENTIONS HERMIONE BEING FREAKED OUT ABOUT THE DANGER. How could more people know about it when it’s not in the movie??

— And speaking of no Maurauders backstory, perhaps the cherry on the icing of the cake: ALFONSO AND STEVE COMPLETELY OMITTED THE FIDELIUS CHARM! I only really noticed that three or four viewings in back in the day, and I almost barfed blood like an anime character from the fanboy rage. No Fidelius Charm at all, and therefore no “Sirius Black was magically made into the O N L Y man who can spill the beans… and he told Voldemort!” into “Sirius Black was OnE oF teH fEw whO kNew… and he told Your Know Who!”

Like I said, total CASTRATION of a book that is already not perfect, but I would have gladly eaten up the flawed surface-level narrative, if they had bloody bothered to do right by the book, but they didn’t!

* headdesks like Princess Mereda *

So yeah, I’ll watch the new show out of morbid curiosity if nothing else. The bar is VERY low for an adaptation.

[sunnyskywalker]

The bar is practically below the ground, staring up at the possibilities like that one shot in Citizen Kane. It's such a shame that they had so many incredible actors basically doing souped-up cameos. I think Maggie Smith even joked about how her part in CoS was essentially standing around going, "But Albus, what does it mean?" If they get actors even half as good and TV series length, it will at least give them more time to shine.

The lack of Marauders backstory really does gut the series. I am fine with movies simplifying and omitting some details when adapting books in general, because it is impossible not to, and because movies work differently and the simplification can make the same emotional points in a compact punch. But there's simplifying and then there's cutting almost everything that explains what's motivating half your characters. I really wonder whether the movies would make sense if everyone watching hadn't either read the books or had a friend sitting next to them whispering about all the details the movies cut.

There are so many scenes it would be interesting to see filmed as they were written, and see what the reaction is!

[sunnyskywalker]

Also, thank you for commenting! It's been quiet here lately so it's nice to get another voice in the conversation.

I, too, am usually fine with adaptations taking a different interpretation as long as they do it well. The movies had some dramatic scenes and cool vibes at moments, but I don't think they worked very well as a coherent story, which makes all the changes seem like cheap tricks to make their characters more "relatable" or whatever. Grapple with the books and try to adapt that story coherently, fine. Make the heroes more heroic and the baddies badder and tell a coherent story, fine. Do neither? Blah.

Cases when the movie saves face for the books

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Inspired by your “Would Dudley hide behind Vernon instead of eat cake” remark.

Example 1:

Hagrid merely threatening Vernon with words “Don’t ever insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me” and then hexing Dudley for stealing Harry’s birthday cake, instead of threatening and then immediately punishing Vernon’s insult by hexing his son.

Example 2:

Giving Hagrid’s “nOt a SinGlE sOrcErEr whO weNt baD caMe oUt oF anYwHere bUt Slytherin” line to Ron instead. Yes Ron is a pureblood child, but he is also very young and sheltered in his own way. It is way, WAY more believable that he never heard of the nitty gritty Sirius Black scandal, than to believe Rubeus “I totally know Sirius Black is a traitor for years, I onky regret never ripping him limb from limb” Hagrid really forgot it when trying to feed Harry the Rah Rah Gryffindor bs agenda.

Example 3:

Movie Dumbledore telling Harry very early on that Slughorn has something to give that Harry has to obtain by cozying up to him, and Harry agreeing to try early on. Instead of only giving the assignment oh-so-dramatically so many months into the Last Year Of APWBD’s Life to Harry, after Harry soent months avoiding Sluggy.

Any other examples come to mind? :)

Re: Cases when the movie saves face for the books

[sunnyskywalker]

Completely omitting Harry trying all the "fun" hexes, as mentioned.

Having Harry accidentally break into Snape's mind during the Occlumency lessons to catch that oh-so-brief glimpse of the Marauders being the thing that prompts Snape to throw him out, rather than getting almost praised for breaking into his mind and seeing Baby Sev crying and getting thrown out for deliberately prying into the Pensieve.

Cutting the whole Montague-in-the-cabinet incident, which led to Montague in the Hospital Wing so weak he had to be fed like a baby bird. Actually seeing that would make the Twins look awfully brutal (maybe even if they also played up Montague's role in the Inquisitorial Squad), and the Trio wouldn't look great for keeping quiet either.

Oh, and they cut the Ton-Tongue Toffee incident too. Maybe for time, because I'm sure the movies could have played up the absurdity and made Dudley look more culpable if they wanted, but it also might, well, look like they nearly choke a kid to death when that kid can't defend himself.

Come to think of it, didn't they also cut the fireworks in the cauldron scene in CoS? So we don't see the Slytherin kids get injured.

Let's see, we also have Dumbledore picking Harry up for the summer while Harry's flirting with a waitress rather than bonking the Dursleys on the head with glasses of booze and telling them it's bad manners not to drink it.

I'd have to watch the movies again to refresh my memory, but I suspect this would be a very long list.

[chantaldormand]

I imagine that Rita (and possibly Marge) will be even more demonised now that Jo came out of her TERF closet. Not that the mental image of suspiciously masculine Rita dragging Harry into a closet and trying to get him emotionally vulnerable wasn't already disgusting on Rowling's part.

But I wonder: what colour of skin will Hermione have? Will Jo stick to her "I meant her to be black!" defence of the play, or will we see another lily-white actress and the whole controversy will be swept under the rug?

[sunnyskywalker]

Ugh, yes. It was already uncomfortable every time she disparaged a female character for being too big-boned or hairy to be "properly" feminine. (Not that you want to be too feminine, of course! That would also be bad!) As if women don't already hear enough about how their bodies aren't "correct" according to someone else's arbitrary standards. Now it's just skin-crawling.

Did she go that far? I'd heard her say she never specified that Hermione had to be white, so therefore she could be black--which sounds like taking credit for vagueness that wasn't actually intentional, so I'm not giving her any points for it. But it's strictly accurate that the books never said that Hermione was definitely 100% white Anglo. (Based on some of the descriptions, she'd be a fair-skinned black person if she is black, but that's fine. Lots of real people fit that description.) They could also go with one of the other popular Hermione fanons and make her Jewish, but based on how badly the later books handle the Nazi allegories, that would probably end up being an offensive train wreck.

Hopefully they will at least cast someone with naturally curly/frizzy hair. And tweak the Yule Ball scene so she cuts down on the frizz but doesn't straighten it, because we have fair too many fictional makeover scenes trying where characters have to straighten their curls to be considered pretty.

[jana_ch]

JKR may be Trans Exclusionary, but she is not any kind of feminist, radical or otherwise. TE but not RF.

[nx74defiant]

My worry is her tendency to come up with new information out of nowhere and justifying it that it was in the plan all along.

Will they be able to stop her from saying something crazy like- well yes the books said the Hermione's dad was a muggle, but I planned for his backstory to be that he is a time-traveling Yeti forced to take human form after fleeing the destruction of Atlantis!

[chantaldormand]

At this point, I'm not sure even JKR knows which of her tweets/comments during interviews contain BS she came up on the spot and which contain nuggets of truth. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if during this show Jo pulled the classical soap opera move of "Hermione was adopted by Grangers and in reality is secretly child of Weasleys' squib accountant cousin". Who may or may not be time-travelling Yeti pretending to be squib after fleeing Atlantis. But we won't learn until season 15 when writers will actively dig through JKR's Twitter feed to find some semi-decayed material for a filler episode.

[sunnyskywalker]

Oh, no, not the Weasley cousin. Surely Hermione is the illegitimate child of James Potter,* thus shutting down the Harmonians once and for all! Because she probably still cares about that. And underestimates the internet.

*But conceived before he started dating Lily due to time-travel shenanigans which may or may not have involved an Atlantean Yeti.

ETA: I forgot that she actually mentioned on Pottermore at some point that one of her early notions was to have the Grangers somehow find baby Harry and take him in. So he and Hermione would have been foster siblings.

[nx74defiant]

not sure even JKR knows which of her tweets/comments during interviews contain BS she came up on the spot and which contain nuggets of truth

I really doubt she knows or more importantly cares.

[merrymelody]

TBH, the lead actors can't be worse than Radcliffe and Watson...

[sunnyskywalker]

Honestly I tend to cut young actors a break and assume it's the director's fault. And maybe the script. Just about every Star Wars Prequel Trilogy actor is much better in everything they do other that Star Wars, which shows what a difference it makes. (The main exceptions are the real veterans like Liam Neeson, who would be experienced enough to know how to turn George Lucas's vague and/or melodramatic instructions into something more convincing. And confident enough to ignore him or tell him nope, doing something else when necessary.)

Radcliffe has done well in other things, as I recall. And I remember Jason Isaacs saying that Radcliffe actually improvised a major line in CoS and he thought the kid was a natural, so maybe Radcliffe's acting was actually propping up a bad script and bad direction as much as possible.

Let's hope for good scripts, good directors, and good actors...

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

As was expressed in my mega comment here, gun-to-my-head, I’d gladly pick Good Scripts above all else. Even the shadowy, disgusting aspects of the HP world would be a boon for the wider audience IF ACTUALLY PLAYED OUT. How can we start debates about e.g. “The Prank” if it’s neither shown or told in a screen version?

ETA

I think the improv moment in CoS was a mutual one: Jason Issacs improvised “Well let us hope that Mr Potter will always be here to save the day!” and Daniel shot right back, “Don’t worry, I will.”

[sunnyskywalker]

Yes, I think you're right about which exchange that was! It isn't easy to not only improv but play it completely sincerely, especially when you're inexperienced and, what, fourteen years old? I do wonder if fandom generally is too hard on Radcliffe and he really was dragging a subpar script up to solid mediocrity through talent and hard work.

Fingers crossed for decent scripts which are more than just a mash-up of the most dramatic scenes held together by vibes.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Daniel was born in July 1989 so he’d be 13 at the oldest (by the year the movie CoS comes out).

I’m very glad that he took the “Now I have my Twilight Millions I can just act for acting’s sake” path that RobPat took. Look at him in “Kill Your Darlings”, for example. Or even in “The F Word” that’s just set in regular times with nothing supernatural or overtly intense.

I wouldn’t call the first two movie scripts as subpar though. They and Chris Columbus’s direction (And I believe his influence on keeping as much stuff in the scripts as possible) really combined and paid off.

[sunnyskywalker]

The first two movies did at least seem like coherent stories, which the later movies struggled with. They also felt slightly flat to me despite the awesome sets and costumes and other great aspects. I suspect this has something to do with technical things about camera angles I don't know enough about to identify. But you know how framing a shot differently or at a different depth can vastly change how a scene feels, even if you don't know why? I think the first two movies weren't quite as good in that respect as they could have been, which is a shame.

Some of the later movies did better with making dramatic moments feel dramatic (some combo of cinematography, staging, and a good line or two), but didn't hang together as well. And some of the dramatic moments fell flat or undermined other parts of the movies. It would be nice to have both coherent stories and great cinematography and vibes.

[nx74defiant]

It could be good - it could be awful. So hard to tell.

[sunnyskywalker]

I always hope for good! Different interpretations of the same source material can be wildly different and say different things, so we can hold out hope for now.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

I would gladly have this adaptation showcase all of the shadowy things in the books (such as “It’s just a prank, bro!”) just so people like this community can actually have concrete material to debate blinder fans with.

[with_rainfall]

I have a feeling it's going to be essentially a play-by-play of the books to appease fans who still think Harry is a good/effective hero. I suspect importance will be given to relatively minor things like Hermione's race, missing scenes from the books (like the potions riddle from PS), etc. without really addressing the deeper flaws in the series, such as Harry being so disturbingly willing to die for no reason at the age of seventeen.

[sunnyskywalker]

If they manage a coherent story which also looks good and is moderately entertaining, I'll be impressed, even if it's not actually the same story as the books when it comes to the important points (rather than the trappings). So few shows manage that much. I'm just so morbidly curious how it's going to turn out. I hope it at least gives some good actors a few good moments in the spotlight that helps them get other work they like?