HBP Chapter One

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Okay, since my Friday's are busy for a bit so I don't really have time to do new chapters, I thought I'd re-post HBP before considering the remaining books. It seemed to make sense since so much of what I originally thought about HBP changed with DH. I could probably just say NEVER MIND for each chapter, but hey, my ideas were so wrong it's practically like reading a whole new book!



*One thing that doesn't change is how much I still dislike this chapter. Muggles are stupid, get it? So are politicians who get elected in some democratic fashion instead of being placed in a position for being heroic. So the Muggle Prime Minister is doubly screwed.

*First paragraph and already the Minister sounds like an overgrown child, worried about his opponent saying everything is his fault. Is it impossible to be a politician and an adult in these books? Doesn't anyone who actually cares about society ever run for public office?

*ETA:Luckily being the Head of State means you have very little to do with what's actually going on in your country, especially if you're fighting a war. Leave that to the Chosen Ones.

*If Voldemort can randomly collapse bridges and cause hurricanes, why doesn't he whip it out when he's facing Harry and his friends? Is the entire population of Muggles wearing red shirts? ETA: No answer there.

*Two murders are blamed on the Prime Minister's government? Is the murder rate really really low in England? It's not like Floyd and Goober getting chopped up in Mayberry, RFD.

*Apparently even Muggles know friends of Dumbledore are more important than anyone else.

*I'm sure the hurricane in the West Country was not Unnamed Minister's fault--I'm also sure that Unnamed Minister responded a bit more professionally than Unnamed President of a Distant Country in 2005.

*Oh, and btw, there was no hurricane. It's lucky that the Muggles in HP seem to have no technology beyond broken telephone booths, TVs, underground trains and Playstations so they can't study any of these phenomena.

*Of course, if Muggles had regular technology they'd know that the Prime Minister could, you know, set up a camera and RECORD the visits of the various Magic people so it actually wouldn't have to all rest on his word. I'm going to have to assume that in fact all Muggles in Rowling's universe know about the magical world and are just indulging the childish wizards. In fact they've also developed a cure for Memory Charms long ago. ETA: Hermione's parents will nevertheless pretend to forget her for the rest of their lives.

*So Muggles are all becoming more miserable, the pathetic victims of Dementor flatulence, yet wizards are totally fine and there's no mist there.

*You know, given the way wizards operate, particularly the politicians, I imagine a real Muggle Prime Minister might actually be able to dominate them quite easily. I guess that's why he has to be made into an idiot. ETA: Kind of like the entire freakin' planet.

*The Prime Minister does not like being made to feel like an ignorant schoolboy--I do not like him being made to look like an ignorant schoolboy, so we're even.

*Another little dig at politicians--the P.M. is sitting in his office, gloating, after years of dreaming and scheming. That's really all it's about. That's totally why Arthur Weasley isn't Minister for Magic, uh huh. He's not a schemer. ETA: Thank goodness we're hurtling towards a Golden Age where MoM will be all part of Dumbledore's crew. (Yes, that includes Hagrid.)

*Despite a lifetime of dreaming and scheming, the fifth sight of a man in a green bowler hat who can step out of the wall turns his brains to mush. No thoughts of using that to his advantage. Did this dreaming and scheming ever rise above the level of tricking Mummy into giving him two desserts?

*Apparently SIRIUS is strictly a wizarding name. Who knew?

*The Prime Minister has trouble following stories with names like Hogwarts, Quidditch and Harry Potter in his head. I hate to think how he deals with complicated situations with far more difficult names in other countries.

*If you ask Fudge, Voldemort's not dangerous unless he's got support. I agree. Which is why I'm so scared now that he's got the help of the Kid Who Cries In Bathrooms and Auntie Crazy. ETA: And few other people, actually. Plus he massacres a dozen of them every couple of days.

*ETA: Note that Voldemort needs support while Harry pretty much needs to do it almost alone.

*Don't you think Snape would have had this Prime Minister up to speed and working together in five minutes? Snape for Minister for Magic! ETA: Sorry, that job might take away too much pining for Lily time.

*Apparently the Prime Minister has a persistent habit of wishing to appear well-informed on any subject that came up. It's a good thing the narrator tells me this; because I'd never have guessed with the "Bwah?" slack-jawed act he's been performing up until now. The man's seemingly freshly surprised every time he's told magic exists. I guess being persistent in this habit hasn't made him good at it.

*Three years on Prime Minister has apparently still not discovered that SIRIUS is not that uncommon a name.

*So Voldemort destroyed the bridge unless Fudge "stood aside" for him? Wouldn't he know by now he could kill as many Muggles as he wanted without wizards caring overmuch? It's like saying, "Let me run the government or the Gorillas in the Mist get it!"

*ETA: That's probably the greatest foreshadowing in the chapter. If you want to take over the MoM, just ask and have red eyes.

*Um, are giants invisible? Wouldn't people have seen them ripping up the trees or tromping over the downs? Oh, I see, some of them did. Only the Muggle grapevine is slow enough that the Wizards have time to go around modifying memories before the news crews show up.

*Usually news crews and hurricanes go together, but these Muggles prefer the traditional method of spreading information--gossiping in toilets. It's a bit slower.

*ETA: Boy, things will really go to hell in the next book, huh, if we're starting out with fake hurricanes and things? Or maybe they'll all disappear after this chapter.

*Naturally, even with hurricanes and bridge disasters to deal with, the P.M. has been closely following the Amelia Bones "locked room mystery" in the papers. Wizards even die cooler than Muggles. ETA: Remember when people thought Amelia Bones would be important? I mean, beyond being the deceased aunt-in-law of Cool Neville?

*Remember when we first heard the description of Rufus Scrimgeour and everyone thought he was going to be important? Fandom should remember the time it wasted on that whenever we get too obsessed about something.

*ETA: LOL! I should take my own advice there. Remember when everything in PS, CoS, PoA, GoF, OotP and HBP seemed like it was going to be important? Fandom should remember the time it wasted.

*You know, I like Kingsley Shacklebolt but I still get really pissed off at the whole "best worker I've ever had" crap. Arthur Weasley, the guy who studies Muggles, can't even work a turnstile, but they can stick any wizard in an important government position and he's automatically better than the Muggles. ETA: Sometimes it seems like KS has to be awesome at everything and be MoM for the p.c.-ness.

*Another point to the Prime Minister for not being able to articulate why Kingsley's skill does not make it okay that he's a mole. Really? Can't think of any reason?

*Chorley is acting like a duck due to a poorly performed Imperius. I think this may be more evidence that Draco did not actually Imperio Rosemerta. It seems far beyond his abilities. ETA: Unlike Harry, who's awesome at them!

*But for heavens sake, you're wizards! You can do magic! Surely you can sort out -- well -- anything! Yes, this is a man I'd feel good about as Prime Minister. Hagrid was totally right in his reasons for why Wizards can't live openly around Muggles. We're just so darn stupid! ETA: Dude, you have no idea how little wizards can sort out. Without magic they'd have all died out from Darwin-awards type accidents.





Exploitation Filmmakers’ Credo
AKA Muggle Prime Ministers' Credo: No, this dummy can't remember what he saw five minutes ago! OMG, MAGIC!!

Idiot World
Does this need further explanation?

Informed Attributes
Watch out for those scheming politicians! They might...um...bluster and bleat at you. Also Voldemort is something to worry about for Muggles. Or anyone.

Misdirected Answering
I, for one, am SO GLAD JKR finally found a place to put this chapter into the books. Since day one I've been wondering if the Minister for Magic communicated with the Prime Minister via owl, firechat, floo powder or talking portrait. Finally I know, and we can move on to the actual story.

The Stealth Monster Rule
I didn't even see the giants sneak into England and stomp all over Swindon! And since they didn't leave any footprints, we can only suspect they were there!

Whooshing Powder
Poof! Chapter's over.

Final score: 6

Comments

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

I meay be in the minority, but I actually thought the "phony war" period of OotP was a brilliant move--a chance to reset the tension meter with a different kind of "wrongness" before shooting the war up to epic scale over the course of the last two books. But not only did she fail to get epic, she actually dissipated the anticipation built up over the entire series in this book. I really, truly wonder what was going through her head when she decided that the main plot of HBP would be hi-skool hijinx.

Remember when everything in PS, CoS, PoA, GoF, OotP and HBP seemed like it was going to be important?

I'd say that's far too generous to HBP! I'm perhaps more anti-HBP than some in this community, because it was HBP that really broke my trust in the series. It was also where I really started to hate most of the characters, though in a few cases it started earlier. With the single exception of Draco Malfoy, I don't think any of them came out of the book better than they went in, and while I was glad Draco got some character development at last, I wasn't interested enough in him for that to save the book for me.

Sometimes it seems like KS has to be awesome at everything and be MoM for the p.c.-ness.

Then again, given JKR's attitude toward the government, is making him MoM really such a compliment, coming from her? I mean, this series is all about how you have to question authority....

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Which was the phony war period? (Though I suspect I agree with you on its being a good idea.)

I'd say that's far too generous to HBP!

Actually, it's probably far to generous to all the books. I mean, they all had stuff that was never going to be important later. But where OotP had tons of stuff that seemed like it was going to go somewhere, I just can't leave out HBP because of what it did have. HBP had a far higher ratio of filler to plot (oh, such a high ratio!) but I though the scene in the Tower was going to be the starting point for DH--Harry thinking Snape was the worst bad guy and wanting to get him when he was really good, him seeing a crack in the other side in the shape of Draco. I will never stop waiting for the "second half" of that story--not for most of the book, but for that set up. Who knew the only thing important was that Draco said "Expelliarimus?" Also I'd add the whole Horcrux study. The Harry/Snape stuff is just hilarious when you think it was all pushed aside and forgotten with no payoff. It was busywork in HBP but I figured the hunt for the Horcruxes would go somewhere. Turned out Harry needed all those flashbacks even less than it seemed like he did!

Also remember that it's not authority if it's one of Dumbledore/Harry's people. That's why the Trio can totally reform the Ministry, especially Hermione, without being the bad kind of authority.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Which was the phony war period?

Most of OotP, when Voldemort was strangely--even ominously--quiet and no one would believe he was really back. It succeeded in making me nervous about what he was doing, what allies he was gathering, what attacks they were planning to spring at an unexpected moment. But in order to make best use of that lessening of tension, I think JKR should have gotten the second war fully underway no later than the start of Book 6; halfway through Book 5 might have been even better.

I though the scene in the Tower was going to be the starting point for DH--Harry thinking Snape was the worst bad guy and wanting to get him when he was really good, him seeing a crack in the other side in the shape of Draco.

Hmm. Interesting. I don't think I expected Harry's relations with either character to play a huge role in DH; there were just too many other things that had to be tackled, and I didn't see how there would be much room for them. Unless JKR completely dropped other themes/characters, of course; she'd proven herself quite capable of doing so in HBP, but I thought she might be doing that with the intention of coming back to them in DH. I did expect Snape and Draco each to play at least one significant part in the unfolding of the book, though, and I did think Harry would come to realize that he had to save the Wizarding World from Voldemort even for the sake of the Slytherins (just as Frodo goes off to save all of the Shire, not just the hobbits he likes).

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Most of OotP, when Voldemort was strangely--even ominously--quiet and no one would believe he was really back.

Ah! Okay, yeah, I'm on board with this too. Especially since it's not what one would have expected and the paranoia Harry would feel is an interesting character thing. I've got no problem with this decision. The only problem is when it turns out Voldemort's working on a stupid plan the whole year, but we don't find that out until the end. And really it's more a problem with the war in general--she just never really planned out an awesome thing for him to be doing in the world in general.

I did expect Snape and Draco each to play at least one significant part in the unfolding of the book, though,

That was more what I was thinking. Because pre-DH I thought that there was just going to be a lot more stuff that Harry had to do with other people. I figured there would be a lot of strategy to take down the other side in different ways, and that would naturally focus on the people we knew on that other side. It's like in the first war Voldemort got Peter to turn as a spy because of who Peter was and his relationships with others and all that.

At the end of HBP I figured okay, we've got 3 people who are wild cards on Voldemort's side--Peter owes Harry a life debt, Snape's really a spy for the good guys, the Malfoys are totally ready to switch sides. It just seemed like such a no-brainer to deploy all these things well since they were part of the set-up. That wouldn't be the whole war, I didn't think--I didn't think their characters would necessarily suddenly get a lot more screentime. I just thought that whatever way they were used would be both cool in terms of the war and dramatically satisfying because of their past with Harry.

What I wasn't prepared for was that it would all just be Harry looking for Horcruxes in a way that had no relation to anything, (and without him even actively finding them) and that the emotions from the end of HBP would disappear to be replaced by Harry suddenly worried about political ideas Dumbledore might have had 80 years before he met him.

So even though a lot of HBP was clearly filler to begin with I was surprised that the few things I thought were necessary set up turned out not to matter either (Voldemort's history and psychology for hiding Horcruxes, Draco's learning the truth about Voldemort and his family's peril, Harry's thinking Snape should be punished etc.). The only thing that really mattered was that Draco disarmed Dumbledore. And the only things that really carried through into DH was that the Malfoys were in trouble with Voldemort--that is, they were all still very much suffering under him, but it really didn't lead to a pay off. It was more just a way to punish them so that when she left them free they would be chastened. The Voldemort memories, his past and personality as young Tom Riddle were completely unnecessary for finding the Horcruxes.

As you said elsewhere, the plot of HBP was so thin she could almost have just put in the Tower scene. It feels very much like marking time, and with all those distractions even the one thing that should be a throughline, Draco's assassination attempts, wind up a lot less coherent a story than the basilisk attacks in CoS. Perhaps partly because they're juggled with romance and Voldemort memories (and needless busywork in getting Slughorn's) as equals.

I wonder if the book were CoS's length if it would have just been much stronger, with the only two storylines being What Is Draco Up To? and the Prince's book. Because even if one isn't interested in one or the other story, they might have complimented each other better and made for a more coherent book, if that makes sense.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

What I wasn't prepared for was that it would all just be Harry looking for Horcruxes in a way that had no relation to anything
The Voldemort memories, his past and personality as young Tom Riddle were completely unnecessary for finding the Horcruxes.
Out of sheer disgust for the last two books, I read them both just once, so I'm not sure, if my feeling, that nothing lead up to anything was actually right and I am very happy both you and helkamaria are tackling them now, so I'll face them as well and see, if my impression was right or not.
In fact, one of the VERY few redeeming features of HBP, for me, had been those Voldemort vignettes in the pensieves; they reminded me of Agatha Christie's technique of giving the reader a bigger picture by way of letting people tell their stories to Poirot or Miss Marple and conceal something crucial inside of them which of course only the shrewd detective will catch onto. I thought, this was Rowling's way to enable Harry to eventually draw his own conclusions about things, thus overcoming some initial error on Dumbledore's part. This would have made for both a surprise ("Lo and behold! Dumbledore TOLD me what he thought about so and so, but now that I replay that memory in my mind, I think we missed something when we watched it in sixth year!")and a psychological development on Harry's part to get past Dumbledore by applying his own insight and brains instead of regurgitating what the big white wizard proclaimed to be the truth. In fact, even HBP seemed to point that way, when Dumbledore himself told Harry that what he told him were just conjectures and might be wrong. One reason why I was not at all convinced that Dumbledore's interpretation of the prophecy was right. Sigh, no such luck.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I thought of about the Dumbledore parts. Within HBP they weren't necessary--I mean, Dumbledore could basically have told Harry this stuff instead of showing it, and making Harry go through all that nonsense to get the one from slughorn...it was all stretching things out. But I figured exactly what you're describing would happen, that the point was for Harry to get to know this guy and maybe see something in these memories where Dumbledore was getting it wrong. Nope.

it's funny that even the one time that Dumbledore says he might be wrong it's right anyway. Iirc, he isn't sure about Nagini being a Horcrux but then she is. There's not much, if anything, that Harry himself has to figure out. The main reason it takes so long is that Dumbledore for some reason decides to give Harry puzzling hints instead of just telling him where to go and when.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Didn't Dumbledore think that a wand belonging to Rowena Ravenclaw was going to be the Ravenclaw horcrux? I suppose that was his token wrong guess.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Nope. Fanon. Albus just said "something" of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor's.

Albus was a master at weasel-wording things.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Usually I hate it when I get fanon mixed in with my canon, but I could only stand to read HBP once, so that's my excuse.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

At the end of HBP I figured okay, we've got 3 people who are wild cards on Voldemort's side--Peter owes Harry a life debt, Snape's really a spy for the good guys, the Malfoys are totally ready to switch sides.

Yeah, I thought all of those people were going to be important too. I was especially disappointed that Peter Pettigrew exited the story without doing anything cool--possibly more disappointed than I was with Snape's unspectacular ending, because I'd been waiting for it for so very long.

I wonder if the book were CoS's length if it would have just been much stronger, with the only two storylines being What Is Draco Up To? and the Prince's book.

Quite possibly. I also really find myself wishing JKR had put Voldemort's backstory into CoS, as she originally planned. It wouldn't have seemed so simplistic there, or if it had, she would have had several more books to add nuances. And since she was still being edited then, it might even have come out supporting the theme of choices in a coherent way.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think I expected Harry's relations with either character to play a huge role in DH; there were just too many other things that had to be tackled, and I didn't see how there would be much room for them.

I did expect Harry's relations with Snape to play a big role in DH - Horcrux protections in the Cave seemed far beyond Harry's and even Hermione's ken, as traps set by a supposedly brilliant wizard should be (ha-ha! DH really demolished this notion), and Snape was _the_ acknowledged expert on Dark magic and cures whereof.
Also, in his chapter with the Black sisters he received a clue about Horcrux location and generally seemed in position to get information about them. Spy, you know? And one who knew Voldy in his later years, which could have been important if hiding places and protections actually had anything to do with Voldy's psychology.
Furthermore, Snape's murder of DD and Harry's burning hatred of him seemed to hint at future explosive confrontation between them and that for some reason it was vital for Snape to be high in LV's favor. I was sure that DD wouldn't make a person go through this for less than a very compelling reason. Silly me!

Draco... I didn't expect much from him. He has been described as annoyingly bratty and weak and HBP didn't change that, although it was nice to see that he was so strongly repulsed by murder. I did expect him and the rest of the Malfoys to finally see that Voldy intended to enslave them forever and turn against him in some more active manner than in DH.

Another thing that I expected had to do with DD sudden secrecy even towards the Order after the dilettantish openness of OoTP. I was sure that there was at least one other spy in the Order - somebody unexpected and whom Harry liked. Just to illustrate the whole "you don't know whom to trust" and "brother against brother" aspect of a civil war, as well as demonstrate that yes, Voldy is actually a dangerous opponent.
But of course, DH showed instead that in Potterverse you could and should judge a book by it's cover and having good family guarantees your own goodness...

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

it was HBP that really broke my trust in the series

If you don't mind my asking, why was this?

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

If you don't mind me answering that question as well:
OotP was my favourite book; contrary to what others thought, I found Harry a believable, pubescent teenager - which didn't mean I had to like what he did. Generally, I liked Rowling NOT going for the obvious but keeping things realistic, for example Cho and Harry's romance just peetering out out of sheer shallowness, Hermione and Harry being over-confident each in their own way, thus overplaying their cards, Sirius's death not being vindicated by something or someone more important that was saved by him, but out of sheer overconfidence. Harry's pettiness re prefect being treated as such etc. Generally, starting with GoF (other nations, house elf issues), OotP seemed to broaden Harry's world as it should for a 15-year old, to make him look farther than his own little school, thinking of politics and the general society he was going to live in. And the wording of the prophecy seemed to point to a more subtle idea of solving the Voldyproblem than the primitive "either you die or I die" we know ad nauseam from Hollywood movies. Oh, and the only time I thought "Well, why the hell don't they do x!" while reading was at the time when Voldemort couldn't have entered the ministry whereas six kids encountered absolutely no obstacle at all - which still might have had some explanation looming somewhere.
And then came HBP. The first chapter was simple fun, the second was quite interesting - and then came a complete WTF. Time and again, I sat there, staring at the pages, thinking Rowling could not be serious with all that pseudo-romantic drivel concerning Ginny. I swear there were whole passages I felt she had just cobbled together from some outdated soap opera, right up to those sun-lit days and the last golden days of peace of the last paragraph ("Sick-bag, Ma'm?"). To be clear: While I had hoped for the story to continue getting more complex in the ways I've mentioned above, Rowling might still have gone the other way, showing that hormones sometimes DO get the better of you, especially when you are in your teens, making Harry abandon everything else in order to follow his dick pointing at Ginny. But Harry's obsession with her never rang true, but roughly like I imagined romantic love to be when I was ten years old. Clichéd, lazy, stupid. And there was nothing else there. Politics? The minister should just do what Harry in his wisdom deems right (see Shunpike). House-elfs? What house-elfs? Foreign countries? Yeah, they provide sexy girls for the boys to lay and the girls to be nasty to.
And the stupidity! It hurt!!! Phlegm is funny? I mean outside the kindergarten? You-no-poo is the height of witty Anti-Voldemort-propaganda? The safe-words consist of information that everybody has access to? Hermione of the murder-by-centaur-plan from OotP behaving like a clichéd Hufflepuff from fanfiction at Borgin and Burke's? I'm not saying there couldn't be stupid wizards, but contrary to what we had before, this wasn't acknowledged as such. I never liked canon Draco, but I cheered when he broke Harry's nose, just out of relief that the latter's braindead idea of concealing himself in a compartment the way he did, had not worked. At that point, I wasn't at all confident that Rowling wouldn't blithely tell us what a brilliant move it had been and had let him go undetected. And I'm not even starting on the whole Horcruxes idiocy.
My only explanation (apart from severe brain cell deterioration)after HBP was that Rowling had set up a massive red herring (love potion theory or something similar)and had not had quite the skill to pull off two complete stories (the real one in the background and the fake one on the pages)in a convincing way and thus had resorted to clichès for the fake story.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

(Icon directed at HPB, not you!)

I agree with so much that you say here! Pretty much all of this can be tacked on to my reply (which I just posted). At one time, OotP was my second-favorite book in the series, just after PoA and ahead of PS/SS. In addition to the reasons you mention, I thought the gradual turning of Hogwarts into a totalitarian state was both unexpected and satisfyingly creepy, with a whole different type of creepiness from the earlier books in the series. I had been rather disappointed with GoF, and OotP restored my faith in the series--but that was because I thought the new stuff introduced it was going to go somewhere. HBP made me start to suspect that it wasn't. I still hoped, but the abandonment of things like SPEW and House Unity did not bode well.

Harry's obsession with her never rang true, but roughly like I imagined romantic love to be when I was ten years old.

Yes! Harry's lusting after Ginny doesn't even work (IMO) as shallow teenage lust!

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Haha, so much yes to this! I used to joke, saying the odd numbered books (1,3,5) were by far the better ones and as number six had been abysmal, this could only mean I was in for a real treat with number 7, which would all make it better. Alas, just shows what to think about superstition...
I already tried to express this in my other post, saying I liked JKR not going for the obvious up to OotP - your mentioning of the other sort of creepiness and "phony war" are two more examples of it. Generally, it pisses me off when everybody from the start knows who are the bad guys, because in RL it is not like that. I mean, Hermione does know from the start that Umbridge is bad news, but she is (the author's insert) very shrewd and very similar to her in certain aspects, so you could argue it takes one to know one. But I liked how the school was turned into a totalitarian system where, in the end (and really from the beginning, if you take the dementor attack in Little Whinging into account), exactly the same things went on as under Voldemort, yet nobody batted an eyelash. Because it wasn't the Dark Lord, but the Pink Lady who acted on behalf of the legitimate minister.
And I generally liked Rowling's way of letting us just guess that, behind the scenes, there really was brewing something very different, against which you couldn't guard yourself, because you didn't know what it was. She had done this in the first five books, keeping the Trio concentrating on the wrong dangers and thus making them vulnerable - but as with so many things, she changed this as well in the last two books. Here, everything was just as dumb as it seemed...

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Looking over the HBP summaries has made me realize another reason why the book didn't work for me: GoF and OotP, as you say, seemed to broaden Harry's world. Once you've broadened it like that, you just can't go back to having a straight-out "school story" again. If HBP had been book 4 of the series, I think I would have liked it better.

I think this is part of the reason why I didn't get on board with the Love Potion theories. Because even if there was a Love Potion behind Harry's actions, the narrowing of the focus still felt really wrong.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the answer! Yes, I was curious as to why people would give up after HBP instead of OotP, and you and Cressida have both given me a good answer as to why. Harry did annoy me more in HBP than OotP (including the H/G stuff, about which I totally agree with your comments), though I found HBP more entertaining than OotP on the whole despite all its many flaws.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

If you don't mind my asking, why was this?

It was when I stopped believing JKR was going to pull it off. At best, she was going to have a fabulous ending with a wobbly setup--but the setup was so wobbly that the fabulous ending was looking unlikely. The plot was so thin that it was virtually transparent; really, she could just have published the Tower scene and dispensed with the entire rest of the book. And unlike in previous books of the series, the distractions that kept us going until the important stuff happened weren't very interesting in their own right. Slughorn was a reasonably amusing character, but a little of him went a long way. The identity of the Prince wasn't really a compelling mystery to me, and neither was Tonks' depression (why shouldn't she be depressed after what happened at the MoM, even without the romantic subplot?); the student attacks weren't a coherent thread, each one coming out of nowhere as it did (JKR did it much better in CoS); the "romance" was completely cringeworthy; and Voldemort's backstory took up way too many pages without answering any questions that I wanted to know about. Ideas which I had thought were important from OotP, and that I was looking forward to further development on, were completely dropped. JKR seemed to have lost her light touch as well. There were things in the book that were clearly attempts at humor, but they fell completely flat.

But even more than all these things, I think the biggest problem was that I just started to hate a lot of characters whom I had previously liked. The biggest example was Harry himself, who became an arrogant little berk, but nearly every single character came out of that book worse than s/he went in. I think the only character who actually improved in HBP was Draco Malfoy, and although I felt it was about time he got some character development, I was only interested in him in an intellectual sense. I still didn't really care about him. The characters I did care about either let me down or were hardly present, and the whole thing left me with a nasty taste in my mouth.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the detailed answer. I especially agree about the "romance" and the Voldemort backstory and the dropped threads from OotP. It's unusual that you were turned off by HBP!Harry more than OotP!Harry: I was as well, but from what I've seen most fans were turned off by the CAPSLOCK than by the Dawson's Creek nonsense.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, I suppose the slash discussion back in chapter 2 has already established that I'm a weirdo who doesn't see things like normal people do. :-\

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

I'd say that's far too generous to HBP! I'm perhaps more anti-HBP than some in this community, because it was HBP that really broke my trust in the series
At least I am part of this minority as well. I am curious to see your answer to viloswamp's question above!