HBP Chapter Six

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

*Ginny’s good at Quidditch. Thus the last bit of important information falls into place. Now Voldemort can be defeated.

*ETA: And remember, in this world being good at Quidditch in high school pretty much translates into a major professional career (if it isn't already) so yay!

*But first, a short quiz. Harry and Hermione play Quidditch against Ron and Ginny. Hermione is dreadful but Ginny is good. How does this make them reasonably well matched?

a)Harry is four times as good as Hermione, but Ron is twice as good as Harry.
b)Ginny is ten percent better than Hermione, but twenty percent as good as Ron.
c)Ron is twice as good as Hermione but Ginny is three times better than Ron.
d)Ginny is Harry’s ideal girl.

*If I were Hermione they’d find me stumbling down the road knocking on Muggle neighbor doors asking if they had teenagers and if so could I please watch TV with them?

*ETA: Sorry, that's probably more what I would do as a Muggleborn. If I were Hermione I'd probably zap the Muggle owners to think they wanted to watch whatever I wanted to watch on TV.

*What does Remus Lupin do to his clothes that they’re always more worn and patched than ever? Especially when he can fix his clothes with magic? Is he riding the rails as a hobo? Is he undercover as a clown? I think the end of the series will reveal that as a child Lupin was bitten not only by Fenrir Greyback but Raggedy Andy as well.

*ETA: Perhaps he's just trying to look bad so Tonks will get the message and leave him alone.

*Remus is also gaunt. You’d think he’d be gaining weight what with all the eating people.:-D

*ETA: Tonks likes them emo.

*Regulus lived a few days after deserting the DEs. Go Regulus! Sprinkle that name around! ETA: How could I have doubted that Harry wouldn't identify with this kid immediately? Sure his polyjuice wouldn't be golden like Harry's, but it's obviously got more bravery than, say, Crabbe's does. Probably it tastes like lukewarm, flat Doctor Pepper or something.

*Bill is being “plied with wine” by Fleur. Personally, to me that phrase has always suggested softening someone up so you can have your way with them, usually a man trying to get a woman drunk. I would expect Harry’s fiancé to maybe have to do that but not Bill’s.

*ETA: But then, it's in keeping with the whole theory of sexual attraction in this book so it must be on purpose. All girls have to drug or trick their menfolk in some way to get them to want to have sex with them. Really, that's totally normal.

*Florian Fortescue’s been kidnapped—omg, who’s going to give Harry free ice cream? You’d think giving The Chosen One free ice cream would get you some protection, but no. (Though later when we see what "protection" means in this world, maybe Florian did get it and this was the natural result.)

*ETA: Anybody know what happened to this guy? Because no more ice cream remains one of the top 10 horrors of "the war" by the end of the book.

*Ollivander’s gone too. "The wand maker?” asks startled Ginny. "No, the Mexican jumping bean farmer," replies Arthur. Well, no, he doesn’t say that, but that’s what somebody would have said if Ron asked such a question.

*Oh, I see. Ginny’s startled because WHAT’LL PEOPLE DO FOR WANDS?? Glad she’s got her priorities straight, there.

*Remus reveals other people are capable of making wooden sticks too. You know, this is kind of indicative of the way this world works—realistically, there would be lots of wand-makers and different people would favor different makers. Each would have his own style and strength and there would be healthy competition. In HP, of course, we can’t have that. Ollivander must be The Chosen One of wand makers and once he’s gone wands will never be the same again.

*ETA: Ollivander got to be the Chosen One by agreeing to deliver the total crap re-interpretation of wand theory central to DH. The other wandmakers pointed out that it sucked so they got scrapped.

*Harry receives a note saying he’s now Quidditch Captain. I picture the note including a little doodle of Dumbledore with big, sad, hopeful eyes and a single tear—are we okay about the Prefect position now, lad? I only did it cause I thought it was for the best! XOXO

*ETA: I never played sports--do schools usually appoint the captain? It seems like something you'd vote on or something.

*Speaking of priorities—HARRY GETS TO USE THE SPECIAL BATHROOM NOW! Hogwarts seems to have a lot in common with corporate culture of the early 1960s. People in movies and plays of that time are always trying to get a key to the executive washroom. Poor mike_smith was so excited about the prospect of this bathroom, and it never comes up once in the book after this.

*Ron’s supportive and gracious about Harry being Quidditch captain. Naturally Harry does not compare this to his own behavior last year when Ron was made Prefect. Obviously not, since Ron was the one overturning the natural order of things by being promoted. ETA: As he will continue to do in the next book by bitching at Harry!

*Ron later goes wide-eyed over Harry’s bag o’gold, which Bill took out for him. Um, I know Harry has far too much noblesse oblige an easy-going nature to ask, but when did the Weasleys get full access to his bank account? My own mother doesn’t know my PIN number but it seems like anybody can make withdrawals on Harry’s account. Maybe it "makes things easier" and Harry should "trust Bill," but would it have killed Bill to, you know, explain this beforehand and ask? Maybe have Harry fill out the bank slip? Does he not need any form of ID? Bill does ROB GRAVES for a living, iirc.

*ETA: Seriously, why do they need to dramatically break into Gringott's in the next book? They could have just showed up and said their little brother was a friend of Bellatrix's.

*Ginny mimes throwing up when Fleur strokes Bill’s nose and Harry finds this so hilarious he almost chokes into his cereal. Good thing Ginny didn’t say Bill and Fleur were sittin’ in a tree k-i-s-s-i-n-g. Harry might actually have died laughing.

*ETA: Well, we know Ginny won't be doing any such nonsense. Her main job after finally snagging Harry is unobtrusively withdrawing when she's not needed.

*Yeah, it’s tough being the Weasleys, what with the chauffer and the company car. They’re so down to earth.

*Harry isn’t sure the Ministry knows about his invisibility cloak. Of course not. Dumbledore would totally keep that information to himself while invading Harry’s privacy in plenty of other ways. It’s exactly his style of keeping in control.

*Harry’s on Top-Grade Security Status. Top Grade apparently meaning you’re guarded by the big dumb ex-gamekeeper/schoolteacher who likes a drink or two. Excellent. ETA: What's Middle-Grade Security Status? Oh, I guess that would be Hedwig: stuck in a cage and used for target practice. Which is still several notches above the Grangers: Knocked in the head with a shovel and given a case of Gilligan's Island-amnesia, then pointed in the general direction of Australia.

*And Hagrid's wearing a beaver skin coat in August. I suspect the coat is the real security. It will keep people away for a considerable radius.

*Dumbledore once again overrides anything so silly as a professional agency by deciding how Harry will be guarded on a whim. Who needs any sort of governing structure in place when you can just rely on the Very Wise Man? ETA: Even if he's dead?

*Normally you’d think the vendor calling Ginny’s neck pretty would be just a sales pitch, but we’ll soon see that it’s no sales pitch. It’s true! Her neck is just that pretty! To match the rest of her!

*Mr Weasley apparently can’t do anything like his job when he’s not on duty. Why am I not surprised that *this* would be the one way he’d try to be by the books?

*Hermione wants new dress robes…why, I’m not sure. Isn’t that like buying a new prom dress?

*Arthur says it doesn’t make sense for them all to go to Madam Malkin’s. Um, Arthur? It actually does make sense. You’ve got one security guard and are probably expected to be sticking together. As if to point this out, Harry immediately notices other shoppers sticking together in tight knit groups. Cowards.

*And then, when we get to the shop, Hagrid stays outside anyway. Top Grade Security. In tip-top Grade Security the security guard sits in the car while Harry runs into the bakery and brings him back coffee and a bear claw.

*Draco asks his mother if she’s noticed he’s not a child anymore. Harry certainly notices as he checks out Draco’s handsome dark green robes. Might want to pick up some plying wine there, Ginny.

*Unfortunately, his author doesn't seem to have noticed. Next year Draco will be less effectual than he was in PS.

*I hadn’t noticed this before, but Draco is already yelling about Malkin’s sticking him with pins before the one in his arm. Coward.

*I guess his seeing Harry staring at him in the mirror also counts as foreshadowing of the later bathroom fight. What’s great is it’s also the cliché moment from Fatal Attraction.

*Despite his not being a child anymore, Draco announces that if his mother smells something bad it’s because a Mudblood just walked in. Maybe when the robes are properly fitted Draco can shop for some grown up insults he can use without embarrassing himself.

*Okay, he redeems himself slightly by pointing out Hermione’s black eye and offering to send flowers to whoever did it.

*Madam Malkin scolds Draco. I guess she doesn’t realize he’s the Big Bad Embodiment of Evil that Everyone Is Afraid to Challenge. He just cleverly disguises himself as an gawky idiot of a teenager.

*Harry’s insults aren’t too sharp either, but at the moment I’d say Harry’s insulting at the 16-year-old level while Draco hovers around a young twelve.

*Yes, the symbolism of Draco tripping over his robes is heavy-handed, but who could resist it?

*ETA: Especially when the solution to Draco's life is apparently to let his mum take over for him.

*So does Draco know about Harry and Sirius? What does he know about Sirius? Narcissa calls him "Dear Sirius" referring to them, it seems, not Harry. (I mean, she’s not saying Harry will be reunited with *his* dear Sirius, but just dear Sirius, as in their cousin.)

*Draco and Narcissa decide to go to another store. Wait, there are other stores? But I’m sure Madam Malkin is The Chosen Dressmaker.

*When he gets outside, Harry asks Hagrid if he saw the Malfoys. You know, the family working for the guy trying to kill Harry who killed Sirius and who just almost got into a fight with Harry in the store while you were supposed to be protecting him? Oh, of course Hagrid the security guard wouldn’t know that.

*Anyway, he says they wouldn’t dare make trouble in the middle of Diagon Alley, the place where everyone else has been abducted. Which is why you ought to have followed Harry into the store, genius.

*Actually, I’m being kind of hard on Hagrid. He would have been no match for Narcissa and probably just made things worse. Then Harry would have to be cheering him up all day or something. For proof, note how nobody manages to "disabuse Hagrid of this comfortable notion" even though he’s the one who’s supposed to be protecting them.

*The twins’ store is packed, and a lot of people seem to actually be buying stuff like wands that turn into rubber chickens. I weep for the Wizarding World. I really do.

*Seriously, remember that this is what everybody has turned into in the epilogue. Thirty-something's whose idea of fun is a wand that turns into a rubber chicken.

*Hermione tells us the daydream charms are extraordinary magic. Why, I’m not sure. It’s just convenient that Fred and George are the only people in the entire Wizarding World who seem to ever create these obvious magical things. They are the Chosen Magic Makers, which is why they’ll be driving the Pretender out of business soon enough.

*ETA: Hermione probably bought some to study for her great Memory Charm That's Not A Memory Charm of next year.

*Fred and George still have bad but expensive taste in clothing, an attribute that will be transferred to the Malfoys in fandom, even though we just had a scene telling us Draco’s own robes were handsome. It’s one of those rare times when Rowling and her most devoted followers have a little conflict. She’s more suggesting it’s funny that Fred and George are tacky. But when you’re mostly writing romance, you’d rather your favorite characters be the ones with good breeding and nice clothes and that particular joke be on the Malfoys.

*I’m so glad Fred and George’s store also includes Muggle stuff so people can mock it. They probably think Muggles actually use this stuff a lot, trying to emulate the high culture of wizards.

*George can’t believe how many people at the Ministry can’t do a decent shield charm. Funny, I can believe it. Nobody can do anything except for people Harry’s coincidentally become close with over the years, and even they can’t be over 19.

*Fred and George then take Harry into the backroom where they sell items for thieves. Ironically, on the way into this room one of them threatens a small boy with physical violence if he pockets anything. ::sniff:: They really have grown up.

*Fred and George are also referred to as “Mr and Mr Weasley” by their staff. Amazingly, Harry refrains from seeing this as pretentious or even considering that Fred and George could be turning into The Man. ETA: Just as he and his friends will remain the plucky outsider underdogs when they're running the entire nation between themselves.

*Have Fred and George paid Harry back for his loan? Seems like they’d have to have by now but I don’t remember. They’re giving him free stuff, but frankly I’m shocked they haven’t yet asked him for a personal endorsement of their store. That’ll probably come later.

*The twins take Hermione and Ginny to the girlie potions, where they back off warily from the silly giggling girls. They prefer to plot their man traps in dignified hisses and whispers.

*And of course naturally the love potions would all be for girls. What boy would ever want to give a girl a potion to make her want to have sex with him?

*Hmmm. The love potions depend on the weight of the boy and the attractiveness of the girl. I’m thinking tranquilizer darts are the way to go, myself. The ugly girl can bag her prey from a distance, have time to catch up to him (especially if she’s heavy and can’t run fast), mount him and run away pregnant before the guy wakes up.

*Seriously, I’m beginning to develop a theory that magic causes a seriously decreased heterosexual sex drive in male wizards. I guess the reason the steps to the girl’s room in Gryffindor Tower don’t let boys up isn’t because boys are randy and want sex but because the girls are constantly doping them up to force them into servicing their insatiable female libido!

*Fred and George discuss how popular Ginny is. This would be the time for somebody besides Ginny to mime vomiting.

*Ginny announces that Dean is a boy and Michael is a sore loser so she dumped him. I hope Fred and George rattle off a list of other boys who are interested in Ginny so she can tell us why she rejects them. (Btw, keeping track, that’s two more random people Ginny has mentioned, one neutrally, one negatively.)

*Fred and George suggest Ginny’s moving through boyfriends "a bit fast" (two in a year—whoa) so that we can be subjected to Mary Sue’s Rant of Awesome Girl Power. Fred and George will not be the first boys in her family to be roped into this role.

*ETA: You do have to wonder if Harry caught flack for this when he was appointed Head of Aurors at 26 (and Head of Everything at let's say...30). I mean, imagine the scandal of people discovering his wife went out with this many people before finding her true adolescent love. Luckily she had Hermione to testify that she really was into Harry all that time.

*Ginny sure is angry at Fred and George for acting out their stereotypical boy roles. Because she’s totally not on board with the clichéd gender roles that are the bedrock of the Weasley family. Nope, her character’s a regular black sheep amongst the wooly rams. Uh-huh. Her looking a lot like Molly when she scolds them does not in any way suggest that Ginny’s just like her mother underneath.

*Harry said nothing. He was thinking too hard. The joke is too easy.

*Harry decides to follow to see where Malfoy’s going. Ooh! I’ve read this one. Harry’s going to follow Malfoy to a brothel where Malfoy has sex with a pretty rent boy with black hair and blue eyes while Harry gets turned on and touches himself under his invisibility cloak.

*Oh. Wrong story. *shuts off porn music* What happens is, Harry, Ron and Hermione get under the cloak and waltz past Hagrid’s Top Grade Security.

*It’s difficult hiding all three of them under the cloak these days. Frankly, I’m surprised they can do it at all.

*Knockturn Alley is deserted because it’s a giveaway to be seen buying "dark" magical items. Or maybe because with Fred and George’s back room, you can buy far more dangerous weapons in Diagon Alley.

*ETA: Does anybody remember this alleged bias against Dark Wizards next year? The year when the government is obviously taken over by the magical Nazis and nobody notices?

*Hee—Draco talks with his hands. I thought Maya just made that up!

*Now I’m totally trying to imagine Tom Felton miming his whole Cabinet plan so Harry can watch through the window in the movie. Or better yet, I want him to act out his entire role in the series so far, incorporating the classic "stuck in an invisible box" and "walking in a heavy wind" tricks.

*B&B sells sinister objects. Like a trick vanishing cabinet. As opposed to the totally not sinister powder that cloaks everything in darkness.

*So what’s Borgin supposed to be giving his full attention, since it’s Draco who’s going to be fixing the cabinet? Is he just sending instructions or something? LOL-now I’m picturing Draco on hold to B&B Tech Support. Have you tried rebooting the cabinet?

*So was Draco supposed to have shown Borgin a Dark Mark or what? Is all that nonsense about his arm supposed to be correct? Because it doesn't actually make much sense at all and was pretty poor deduction on Harry's part. I'm going to decide he just showed Borgin a note from Voldemort.

*Ron and Hermione bicker all the way back to Diagon Alley. Knowing what bickering symbolizes, Harry’s lucky they don’t start having sex right there under the cloak.

*Mrs Weasley and Hagrid have clearly noticed their absence. Well-done G-Man Hagrid. How long after Mrs Weasley pointed it out did you notice their absence?



Idiot Picture
Where to start?

Idiot World
We end the scene with our Top Grade Security Man being fooled by the oldest trick in the Child’s Book of Sneaking. And did you know Harry totally invented shield charms?

Informed Attributes
Miming throwing up! Oh dear—it’s no wonder Harry almost spits out his cornflakes! Bwahahaha!

Misdirected Answering
Having just sat through an entire chapter of catching up with the Weasleys, we now have to endure a visit to the Twins’ store and not only hear how their business is going but the details of Ginny’s boring teenaged love life. Meanwhile, the Apocalyptic Magical War makes Harry’s birthday tea a little grim, but let’s not dwell on it.

Selling Wood
Goes to Hermione Granger, starring in "Shopping For A Birthday Present For My Good Friend, Draco Malfoy."

Final score: 5

Comments

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Quidditch Conundrums -
1. Hermione is crap at Quidditch, but Ginny is the pending best player of all time, so can take on any group of people single-handed.
2. Hermione is secretly hexing Harry and Ron - practicing those Charms to take care of her redundant parents
3. Harry is letting Ginny win because he wants to get into her pants (and I wouldn’t mind that - some normal behaviour from this bunch of freaks)

Remus - I’ll discuss him quickly before he disappears from this series forever and is replaced by a reverse-Stepford-Werewolf and starts behaving like a git to order. Is there a limit of times that you can mend clothes magically before the start to show wear and tear. Perhaps that’s it? Can’t be sure, as JKR didn’t mention it. Gaunt I understand - not because of no money for food, but because of a distinctly stressful existence - I’m sure that monthly transformations just eat up those calories.

Constantly worn clothes are a little silly. He worked for a whole year in Book 3, ending just over three years ago, why didn‘t he replenish his wardrobe with hardy and classical items then? He wasn’t even paying rent.
I can keep clothes looking pretty good for that length of time and I’m not a hard done by persecuted minority who doesn’t know where the next galleon is coming from. Tonks obviously wants him sans attire, so that won’t fend her off.

Ron showed strategic ability in the first few books, and is now a good player as well as being relatively accessible by nature. Harry’s a very good player, but ridiculously impulsive, with no empathy or common sense AT ALL. Who’d be the better Quidditch Captain? I know - Ginny, but Harry can‘t be bossed around by his girl! Except maybe in the bedroom, but Harry doesn’t strike me as fun in that way (or in any way)

Bill’s ridiculous access to Harry’s account which could so easily have been written more sensibly, sigh - maybe Arthur Weasley had Harry registered as mentally deficient after Sirius’ death (he’s no fool) and the family has power of attorney over his - everything?

Ginny vs. Fleur - yeah, well at least Bill still wants his fiancée close to him. Watch Harry keep you at bay until another baby is needed - cow.

It could have been poignant that Arthur got promoted and started to at last be capable of a very good standard of living, just as his family grew up and he had fewer dependents. Could have been, but wasn’t.

Ginny’s neck would be at its prettiest when violently severed.

I wouldn’t mind all that nonsense of that drunken idiot Hagrid being Harry’s close personal protection (except he let him go into the store alone - hope there are no back doors!) if it led to Harry or Ginny’s death. This way it was just irritating.

I think Harry got a share of the Twins’ business rather than his money back. If it’s true, it was the right decision. Selling stuff to Draco, the *obvious* villain of the piece marks them as the sort of people who’ll end up very rich and successful, regardless of the damage they leave behind. (Sorry Bill!) Some would say very Slytherin, but not me.

I don’t mind some amusing filler to pass the time/change the pace, but it just goes on and on. Ginny’s only useful for filling a hole in the ground. Spiteful mare.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I do love the whole "Harry as Leader" throughline because personality-wise he really isn't much of a leader and it would almost be more interesting to deal with that. I mean, you know what could have been nice? If *Ron* turned out to be a good leader just because he was sociable and people liked him and he had good strategic abilities. Harry could still be the bigger hero and more special and all that, but Ron's everyman status could have been turned into a complimentary talent. Because Harry's usually so prickly, he doesn't pay attention to other people, he gets impatient when they don't just do what he says when he thinks it's important but then doesn't think much about them otherwise.

I guess in a way we do get that with Neville, who seems to honestly put together a real resistance force. But it's off-page and it still seems like we're to assume that Neville was never as good a leader as Harry, the super-teacher of the DA.

I also mourn the loss of the storyline I thought was going to be the Twins' big growing up lesson. But no, of course they can just continue in their smug assurance that they're awesomely funny. Any bad things that happen can't really have anything to do with them (they didn't make Malfoy evil, after all), of course they're just great assets to the war. And it's really sad when one of them dies, taking all that joy out of the world with him.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I kept waiting for Ron to become the leader he really ought to be. And I maintain that Ron probably would have been a much better Quidditch captain than Harry. For example, Ron probably would have handled the whole Seamus/Dean issue better. (BTW, there's a dozen ways to do that, including putting them both on the team as reserves in the first place, or using Seamus as an assistant captain.... but it's beyond Harry to do anything like that.)

This is one of the reasons you ought to read Watership Down. I don't want to spoil it for you, but the most interesting thing to me was the dynamic between the different rabbits and the way they learned to function as a team. The rabbit who becomes the leader is definitely not the most "special" in any way.

Ron had the potential to become the leader--when it counted. After all, it's Ron who makes the most important strategic decision in PS/SS. But it's like he deliberately steps back in the later books in order to keep Harry happy. The one time that he tried to assert himself as person (rather than Harry's shadow) was in GoF, then he expressed his hurt about being left out of Harry's (supposed) plan. When Ron came back, he must have realized that he'd better keep his head down in the future unless he wanted to be frozen out again (and after GoF, he could have no illusions about who Hermione would pick).

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I LOVE Watership down! And yes, the dynamic between the rabbits and the functioning. There's a moment in the movie--I can't remember if it's also in the book--where the General is surprised when B says he's following the orders of his Chief Rabbit when of course the general assumed B was the chief?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's also in book. I love that moment.

So, since you read the book, wouldn't it have been great if Harry had been more of a B? I mean, he really is that character. The only thing is, unlike the rabbit, he never realizes that he's better off following the better leader. I mean, it's like Watership Down would have been if they'd made the mistake of going with the baddest rabbit, instead of one who understands leadership.

Including stupid, impulsive plans that end up getting people (or rabbits) killed.

I suppose that JKR could be making a really sophisticated criticism of leadership and how people invest people (like Harry) with power out of a silly idea that talent and luck = leadership skills. But, judging from her portrayal of the successful leader, Dumbledore, I think it's more that she really doesn't understand the difference between leadership and popularity.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Not to mention she puts Harry in an even more amazing position of leadership in her head after the books--leading the entire department of aurors at an age where he probably wouldn't be able to run even a smaller department. So yeah, I think it's clear that it's more about the benevolent dictator idea. You find the person who's just 'good' in some spiritual way and put them in the position and they'll of course do a great job and fix everything.

Of course there's also this line of Harry allegedly not "wanting" to be a leader. And it's true he never has much interest in organizing people at all. But that just proves how awesome a leader he is, that he doesn't want power. Unfortunately he clearly also isn't all that into responsibility.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

l admit I find something attractive in the idea of a leader who doesn't want to lead--to my mind, the U.S. benefited from an incredible stroke of luck that our first president (under our second government) wasn't that interested in running things. There were a number of people panting to make him a king. His retirement after two terms set an important precedent.

You only get one of those in the lifetime of a country, of course. I don't mind that Harry is such a rotten leader--except that JKR is determined to tell us that he is. Sorry, I'm not buying it. I can see in an abstract way that his giving up of the DA showed him to be un-powerful hungry, but it still pisses me off. The reason they gave the kids for starting the DA (protect ourselves from Voldemort) is more important than ever, but Harry (under Ministry protection) can't be bothered to worry about the Hufflepuffs in harm's way.

Argh. I'm getting pissed off all over again. Okay... here's one of the things that truly bugs me about me--and forgive me, because I'm basing this all on a Reader's Digest perspective of World War II. But, it seems like JKR is going nuts trying to invoke these WWII-ish associations. Fine. I get it.

But that war wasn't won by a single person (whether it's Dumbledore dueling Grindlewald or Harry dueling Voldemort). The whole big story about the war was that it was everyone pulling together that did it. It was the little guy with a boat ferrying two or three soldiers across the channel. It was the mom who went to work in the factory or the farms while her husband was fighting. It was the families in the country who took in kids from the cities.

But in HP, it's all about one person, who has the total responsibility for the whole world. That's just screwy, even for a fantasy.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yes, not wanting to lead is a great part of a leader--but it generally needs to go along with the idea that you just feel (correctly) that it would be irresponsible not to lead. But Harry as a character never really gets to that level of maturity, and he never really sees himself as a servant to the people. The Chosen One, yes, who's got to save the world for everyone else, but that's a slightly different thing. It's like in one of Maya's recent stories where Dean says Harry doesn't care about people and Harry says, "I saved the world that time," and Dean says yeah, but that's different.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Stopping the DA showed him as BLOODY STUPID! For someone like Zachiaras Smith, who probably got a good OWL from it, that's fine. For people like muggle-born Hermione/Dean, Weasleys with targets on their back, Neville, Seamus and all the Huflepuffs (as you say) and other unknowns likely to get behind Harry at the final reckoning, they'd surely need all the practice they could get. It wasn't even as if it was about power. With Umbridge gone, it would no longer be Harry leading a subversive group against the authorities - it'd just be a perfectly legitimate study club.

That said, Harry had perfected his Expelliamus, and the Aurors swarmed around him - so he was alright, which I'm sure we all agree with JKR was the important thing. She didn't want to write about the DA in HBP (don't ask me why. HBP, like DH suffered from the plot happening off the page and needed a lot more substance) so Harry acted selfish and stupid. I wish Ron, Neville and some others had kept it going. (I doubt Hermione would have bothered if Harry didn't want to), and it'd have led nicely into Neville being the real hero of DH.

I have to stop now - my blood pressure's starting to rise again.....

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

For example, Ron probably would have handled the whole Seamus/Dean issue better.

That mysterious "Real!Ron-who's-not-being-dissed-by-JKR" would, you mean? I could believe it of Book 1-3 Ron, maybe Book 4!Ron. Book 5+!Ron, especially Book6!Ron, though? Not so much. Book6!Ron would probably try to make them both happy by having them both play in the match at once and get the whole team disqualified for having too many members on the pitch. It would be played as cute and funny while implying that of course Harry would never have made such a silly mistake. He and Ginny would laugh about it later, possibly in front of Ron's face.

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Is there a limit of times that you can mend clothes magically before the start to show wear and tear. Perhaps that’s it?

Ooh, I like that idea! I think I'll adopt that as my mental explanation. It might explain why Ron's dress robes in Book 4 couldn't be transfigured into something nicer, as well.

Ron showed strategic ability in the first few books

Aside from the chess match at the end of book 1, when was this? I remember him playing chess once or twice in other books, but that's about it. I'm not trying to harp on my dislike for Ron; I just can't think of any other instances, and I tend to assume that Ron's strategic ability was just something that served a purpose once and then was discarded. But maybe I've forgotten something.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

There's a lot of different ways one could be strategic in real life--somebody might be good in certain ways in certain situations and someone else show their strategic thinking differently. But really, being a good chess-player doesn't necessarily translate into being any kind of strategic thinker in real life, necessarily. It could just be nothing more than being good at that particular game. I mean, I'm thinking about characters who are canonically strategic thinkers (not in HP!) and the way they're canonically good strategically deals with totally different things than chess.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, sure, but Ron never demonstrated any strategic leanings apart from that one match and genuine liking for chess - which, however, wasn't strong enough to make him join a Chess club or anything like that.
Being strategic in real life - that would mean making plans and such and when did Ron ever try to do that?

I also don't get the notion that a Ron from books 1-3 would have done everything better. I mean, he was every bit as shallow, prejudiced and disinclined to take initiative as the later Ron. What made him more bearable was that he was acting more or less his age (rather than being repulsively infantile as he became later) and the many snippets of info about Wizarding world that he provided.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I'm agreeing. I don't think Ron has been shown as particularly strategic. We are told that he likes Chess and seems to be able to beat...well, Harry, at least. He seems better than Hermione too. But I don't think that translates into any real life strategy that we see. He's better at chess than Harry is about all we know. That's not saying all that much.

I think it would have been interesting if they *had* made him a good thinker in some way or a better leader because he does seem to get along with more people, but they never actually did that.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll admit that I might just be fanwanking the whole "Ron's a better leader than Harry" thing. I'll give a shot at defending my position, but I completely understand if no one buys it. And I may just be giving that to Ron because, darnit, he ought to be good at something!

In PS/SS, he usually makes the best decisions. For example, he was the first one to get tired of the dragon-raising (a point in his favor), and he was the one who managed to put into action a workable plan (get Charlie to take Norbert off Hagrid's hands--incidentally, wasn't Norbert supposed to come back in DH?) He was also, I think, slightly smarter than Harry about the whole "let's go stop Voldemort on our own!" plan. But, having committed to the silly idea, he was the one who got them through the hardest trap--and he did it the way you'd want a leader to do it, deciding who needed to go on and who could be sacrificed.

I'm going to skip over CoS and PoA. He isn't stupid in those books, but he doesn't do much either. In GoF, we get the idea that he does possess some people skills. When he's on the outs with Harry, he doesn't cry in the bathroom or whine at Hagrid. Instead, he hangs out with other friends and seems to be getting along fine with them. So, he is a more sociable person than Harry, with considerably more talent at handling others. I'd argue that the fact he can get along with Harry at all shows how talented Ron is at handling others--because he's the only halfway normal person who can stand Harry in large doses.

In both OotP and HBP, Ron seems to shine whenever Harry's gone. He wins the big game when Harry's not looking and someone manages to get him, Ginny, Neville, and Luna out of Umbridge's office. I think we'd have heard if it was Ginny. :-)

I also think suspect that in OotP, Ron's doing some Harry-wrangling that Harry is too dense to pick up on. He's a lot better at telling Harry to cool it than Hermione is, for example, and he's somehow dealing with Harry's night terrors that minimizes their effect on the others in the dorm. I suspect that Ron had more to do with the creation of the DA than he admits to. (For one thing, do we really believe that Hermione could assemble a crowd of 26 students by herself?)

In HBP, Ron understandably takes a long trip into stupidland when he starts dating Lavender. But still, when Harry's not around, he leads the Quidditch team to a compelling victory, whereas Harry's ability to captain the team are abysmal. I mean, how much smarts would it take to realize that most of the players trying out were 1) First years or 2) from other houses? Is Harry colorblind?

So, in conclusion, I'm not saying that Ron's the most strategic thinker in the world, or the best leader. Just that he's better at both than Harry is. And I guess.... that's not really saying much at all.

[(Anonymous)]

I also would have very much liked if Ron was given something significant to contribute, apart from being a source of trivia on the wizarding world and occasional humor. And making him a people's person to Hermione's "brain" and Harry's "hero" would have certainly achieved that. Unfortunately, that never was the case.
In fact, JKR went out of her way to demonstrate that Ron understands and is interested in people even less than Harry (when not in "capslock" mode) and later even Hermione (sic!). Remember, that Hermione and all the people loosely associated with the trio were brought in by Harry (and later, Hermione and Ginny), not Ron.
Nor did he demonstrate the slightest inclination towards leadership. On the contrary, he was always rather doormatish in best Lupin manner towards boys who mattered to him - like Harry and the twins. Moreover he has been consistently irresponsible and lazy. IMHO, he was an anti-leader, if anything.
I didn't entirely like how JKR suddenly broke out super-Neville, but IMHO he could have been groomed into a leader much more believably than Ron. Even the hated Ginny could have, IMHO.

In PS Ron knew to write a letter to Charlie because it was his brother. No deep thinking involved, but wizarding trivia again and IIRC he wasn't the one who planned the actual transfer.
In CoS he was rather stupid, actually - the car incident alone was absolutely brain-dead, but he also advised Harry against mentioning the "voices", docilely followed Harry to Lockhart when his sister's life was at stake (sic!)... in fact I can't remember him doing anything remotely intelligent in that book.
In PoA he just bitched at and quarreled with Hermione. Not that he didn't have some cause, but still.
In GoF... I actually liked the stroppy, angry Ron in GoF. Naively I thought that it would finally lead to some kind of independence and parity with Harry. It was also quite realistic for a kid of his age and in his position. And IIRC, he mainly hung out with the twins when he was in clinch with his hero. Seamus and Dean allowed him to hang around, true, but it said more about them than about him, IMHO.Ron didn't even _try_ to mediate the whole Seamus conflict in OoTP or anything else. And notice that even in extremis he didn't chose to associate with Neville.
We were also told that all extra people in the DA were brought in by Hermione and Ginny. Etc., etc.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

God, this is so depressing and true. I'd never even thought of it this way. Again, the thing with Ron is that it seems like he *should* have certain skills because of his background, but even those potential skills are divided up amongst Harry and Hermione. Like, even if Ron wasn't going to be a leader he really should be the people person if for no other reason than hey, he's got six siblings and would have practice dealing with a lot of people. Not that only children can't be leaders too, of course, but it was some way to use Ron's background to make him useful instead of just having connections he never had to work at to begin with.

But in the end that's all there was. Hermione, whose personality would and sometimes does turn people off, is the one with her finger on the pulse of the school who knows all the gossip and can manipulate it to her advantage and even give comfort to people. Harry attracts people to the group and is supposed to be the good Quidditch captain. Ron's advantages always just remain that he's related to people helpful to Harry: he's his ticket into the Weasley house and that means the help of the clever twins, access to Ginny's womb, ties to the Ministry with Arthur, good food from Molly, a prefect connection in Percy, dragon-taming in Charlie and a place to stay with a hot young wife to look at with Bill.

The most amazing thing is to remember how I thought GoF was the beginning of development for Ron. But he almost went backwards instead, that is, when he wasn't repeating the same cycle of jealousy, followed by some minor victory, followed by more jealousy. It's funny how post-GoF people used to write evil!Ron. Some hated that but I remember defending it--not because I thought it was going to happen or should, but because it seemed like an obvious fanfic avenue to explore. Ron could be useful and kind of effecting as a villain if you made him a little more competent, and at least it took the resentment to some sort of logical conclusion. Instead we wind up with a Ron who probably still simmers with it throughout his life when he's not being hopeless and giving up trying to make a name for himself.

[(Anonymous)]

Indeed. PoA was the highest point for Harry, GoF for Ron, OoTP for most of the other characters, HBP for Draco. One could argue that Neville's was in DH, but IMHO we are dealing more with a substitution than with competent character development there.
Anyway, after their highest point everybody regresses. I'd say that in DH the trio is back at PS level of "maturity" or even below it.

But IMHO after GoF it would have been already a bit late to turn Ron into a people's person or a leader. Strategy and tactics... maybe. Of course, in RL high-level chess has little to do with strategy, as biographies of chess champions and particularly Kasparov's misadventures in politics prove. But it is a convenient shortcut. The glaring problem here being, of course that strategy and tactics play less than zero role in this series. But at least it would have been a token effort to give Ron something of his own.

Yes, isn't it sad how Draco was pooh-poohed for his use of connections, yet that and making Harry look good by comparison are Ron's main functions in the series.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

You know, maybe it is PS/SS and GoF Ron that gave me this belief in his promise--a promise never fulfilled. We have, after all, his vision of himself in the mirror as Quidditch Captain and Head Boy. By all rights, we should have seen that addressed a bit more as part of Ron's character. He was presented as a kid with a clear set of issues and a lot of ambition.

I'm not saying that the books needed to end with him becoming QC and HB. But, if not, he needed at some point to realize that they, or ambition itself, wasn't that important. But, instead, this ambition of his morphed into general insecurity that had to be conquered... again.... and again. With the result that Ron ended up with a huge sense of wizard-entitlement, a career (either in the Aurors or in the joke shop) based on his close connections to more talented people, and a willingness to pretend that Harry's celebrity was his own.

I'd think this was maybe due to movie creep, but it's not like Rupert Grint was unable to bring out Ron's more dynamic qualities. He was the best of three actors by far in the first film--it was only in the second and films that he was pushed into the bug-eyed scaredy-cat mode. That he did that as well as he did shows that he's pretty game, but it was hardly all he could do. In any case, he wasn't around when JKR was writing CoS or PoA.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, for some reason JKR dropped Ron hard after PS, where he carried his weight in the trio for the first and last time. Maybe she felt that his popularity infringed on Harry's "due"? Then GoF seemed to be about Ron growing up, going through a bratty stage... but it really never panned out and he was frozen in it forever, while also losing his position as authority on the WW - well, it was logical that Hermione caught up, only Harry could remain so clueless after 4 fricking years in it; and also becoming less witty.

[(Anonymous)]

But even his ability to play chess is undermined, if I remember correctly. Isn't there something about his old and experienced chessmen shouting instructions?

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

Selling stuff to Draco, the *obvious* villain of the piece marks them as the sort of people who’ll end up very rich and successful, regardless of the damage they leave behind.

Welllll...to be fair, I can't help thinking that actually was intended as irony. Otherwise, why not just say that the stuff was something Dark that they bought in Knocturn Alley, instead of having it come from the Twins' shop? Also, there's a certain amount of "Damned if they do, damned if they don't"; I can't see that it would have been any better for them to refuse to sell to Draco. ("Oh, isn't that just like a Gryffindor, being prejudiced against a Slytherin who apparently only wants to do business with them? Slytherin money is just as good as anyone else's, you know!")