Deathly Hallows, chapter 15

[anehan]

Here's one last recap before Chrismas break. Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates it! See you in January.

The Goblin's Revenge

* Poor widdle Harry, not being able to cast a Patronus. Feel for his pain and humiliation.

* And once again there's the stuff about not remembering anything when being possessed. Ginny couldn't remember anything, true, but Harry was fully conscious while Voldemort possessed in OotP. Tsk, tsk, Harry. Use your brain.

* Hermione is worried about stealing food. Actually, I for once think that their hero status entitles the Trio to take food. Weird, huh, me giving them a pass on something.

* Ron's being an asshole. I'm not sure what to make of it. On one hand, previously, he has seemed like the most easy-going of the Trio. On the other hand, I like nasty!Ron. Gives me a good reason to hate him, which is always a bonus.

* I would imagine the Trio would be grateful to have Lupin's help now, what with their having no ideas for where to find the Horcruxes.

* Really, all this sitting in a tent with no ideas for what to do makes the Trio look rather stupid. I've read fanfics that make the hunt for the Horcruxes well-planned and intelligent. Here, the Trio just relies on luck.

* I recant; sarcastic!Ron is kind of adorable.

* The Trio goes to London to search for the orphanage where Voldemort grew up. Um, how do they know which orphanage is the right one? Did Dumbledore ever tell it to Harry?

* And they sit ins the tent. And sit. And sit and sit and sit. Ron is in a bad mood, Hermione and Ron expect Harry to have a secret plan, and Harry is morose. Help! Save me from the eternal camping trip!

* I wonder, why can no one produce food out of thin air? Yeah, yeah, it's the first Principal Exception to Gamp's law of whatever, but if you can make somthing else out of thin air, why not food? What makes food special? Oh dear, logic.

* Go you, Hermione! I think you're right that you end up doing the cooking because you're a girl. It's just what one might expect from Ron and Harry, who have grown up having stay-at-home moms (or aunts) who place a lot of importance on food. No disrespect to stay-at-home moms (I had one), but it's a very traditional gender role.

* How convenient of them to run across some fugitives. And a nice exposition dump. Though I kind of like the goblins here. "I am not a house-elf." Teehee!

* Oh, Dean, don't. "I know Harry Potter, and I reckon he's the real thing -- the Chosen One, or whatever you want to call it." What makes yoiu think that, Dean? His mellow temper? His excellent leadership skills? What?

* And more of the exposition dump, this time with Phineas Nigellus, whom Hermione insists calling Professor Black. BTW, why is his name Nigellus, if he is a Black? Did he want a fancier name than "Black" and changed it into its Latinate form?

* Ooh, ooh, a confrontation with Ron is approaching. Finally something happens.

* I feel a bit sorry for Harry, actually. His hero status is a real handicap for him right now. Even Hermione and Ron have bought into it, what with their hope that Harry has some secret plan to find and destroy the Horcruxes. It can't be very pleasant having friends who think you're some kind of super-human.

* Aww, Ron's acting like a bratty teenager, Harry's mild temper makes an appearance, and Hermione acts like a watering-pot. Makes one remember that they are, indeed, typical teenagers.

Comments

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

The *subversive* eternal camping trip. It's supposed to be an adventure, and it's *boring*, that means we're Subverting the Genre, here...

No, I don't really buy it, either.

I swear this section reads like an old D&D game. Nothing happens unless someone arbitrarily rolls a random number on the 20-sided dice. And then you get an infodump.

As to the Gamp's law nonsense. I cannot see why they cannot transfigure raw food into cooked food. Or food that an animal could and would happily eat, into something that a human could eat.

And clearly Gamp's law doesn't apply to fluidds. Aquamente, anyone? And I'm pretty sure that someone has conjured tea over the course of the series, let alone Olivander's fountain of wine.

[anehan]

Gamp's law makes sense from a storytelling point of view. If anything can be conjured from thin air, the Weasleys couldn't be poor. But try to apply logic to it, and it all falls apart.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Even if you can't conjure food out of thin air, what's wrong with a good old "Accio food?" (As the other fugitives do...)

Or, if that's a big problem.. why not have had Bill withdraw funds from Harry's account and exchange it for Muggle money? He did it before. Why couldn't he have done it prior to (or after) the 7 Potters? Even if they didn't get it exchanged... it's gold, innit? Transfigure it into a necklace and pawn it.

Or, take a piece of wood or stone, transfigure that into gold, transfigure that into a necklace and pawn it.

Or, show up at Fred and George's one night and ask them for some cash. It's not like they aren't rich.

JKR must have really wanted this section in the story, because the way things are set up, it's harder to have this happen than to have almost any other scenario.

Although... if we had had the Trio lose their wands early on (maybe in the Ministry adventure), then this would make a lot more sense. And it would be truly exciting and frightening. It should be terrifying to a wizard not to have a wand after relying on it for six years. But when Harry does lose his wand later on, he just comes off as whiny. Maybe because Hermione simply continued doing everything for him like she'd been doing earlier, so what was the difference?

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

JKR had a lot of opportunities for true horror and hardship which she didn't use. Wand loss was one of them.

[anehan]

Or transfiguring something into Muggle money. The possibilities are endless. They could be staying in a Muggle hotel, and I'd bet the Death Eaters couldn't find them.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

forget money, just Confund the shopkeeper and rob him blind. That's the Gryffindor way.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I really like sarcastic!Ron, because it seems like a throwback to early!Ron (of PS through PoA, and maybe GoF as well). I stopped enjoying Ron much around OotP. He just became too pathetic at that point.


* Oh, Dean, don't. "I know Harry Potter, and I reckon he's the real thing -- the Chosen One, or whatever you want to call it." What makes yoiu think that, Dean? His mellow temper? His excellent leadership skills? What?

Yeah, this I don't get. Why should anyone believe in Harry? He's had adventures, sure. He's also temperamental, moody and insular. All of this could add up to "future dark lord" as easily as it could add up to 'hero.'

Btw, I don't think Harry was *possessed* by Voldie in Book 5, was he? I thought he was just "influenced"--e.g., most of his bad impulses came from Voldemort, so he has no real responsibility for them, but he was fully conscious and remembered what he did.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

No, Tom managed to possess him and speak through him. It hurt them both to the point that neither of them could do much of anything further.

Of course that was a perfect point to let us know what was going on with Tom's simulacrum while he was off possessing someone else, but of course Rowling didn't want us to be thinking of *that*.

It would have been a perfect time for someone to kill, or at least vanish the simulacrum, so that when Harry finally threw him out Tom would have been back to square 1 as in PS/SS. But no, we *couldn't* have that!

Of course Albus might have been afraid that if someone did that, Tom would refuse to be thrown out no matter *how* much it hurt. But he never claimed as much.

[anehan]

Of course that was a perfect point to let us know what was going on with Tom's simulacrum while he was off possessing someone else, but of course Rowling didn't want us to be thinking of *that*.

Good point. I never thought to think about it, but really, what is his body doing when he's possessing someone? It seems dangerous to just leave it lying around.

[anehan]

Yes, like jodel_from_aol pointed out, I was speaking about the time in the Ministry of Magic at the end of OotP. Tom possessed Harry then for a brief amount of time.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

He's also temperamental, moody and insular. All of this could add up to "future dark lord" as easily as it could add up to 'hero.'
***Most of all, it adds up to 'typical teenager'. ;-)

[moonspinner.livejournal.com]

* Oh, Dean, don't. "I know Harry Potter, and I reckon he's the real thing -- the Chosen One, or whatever you want to call it." What makes yoiu think that, Dean? His mellow temper? His excellent leadership skills? What?

Look at this way: if your girl had to ditch you for someone else, it's better she ditched for the Chosen One than, say, Neville Longbottom.

[anehan]

Heh. Poor Neville.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

Neville is THE Hero of DH! And a True Gryffindor.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

* Hermione is worried about stealing food. Actually, I for once think that their hero status entitles the Trio to take food. Weird, huh, me giving them a pass on something.

It's annoying because it's misplaced conscience. There are a lot of things she has to be ashamed of and worried about, but stealing food is not one of them.

[anehan]

Once again, Rowling is directing our thoughts so that we'll be able to say that of course Hermione shouldn't be worried about taking food. Like when Harry is feeling guilty it's always something about which we are able to say that of course it wasn't his fault. And he's never feeling guilty about the things he should feel guilty about.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

The problem with that is, we, at least the older fans, do think about the times when they should be feeling guilty but don't. That's where all these comeuppance and redemption fics come from - people see the haughty spirits and expect the fall.

[anehan]

I confess to having a fondness for fics where the Gryffindors get what's coming to them. Reading them is pure self-indulgence, of course, but it's somehow cathartic. :)

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Oh! Forgot to add, Best Wishes of the season to you, too! Have a good holiday.

[lisping-elf.livejournal.com]

*delurks*
"I wonder, why can no one produce food out of thin air?"
Didn't Dumbledore produce cakes out of thin air in Goblet of Fire?
*goes back to lurking*

[anehan]

Where did he do that? I can't remember.

I suspect Rowling would say he retrieved them from the Hogwarts kitchen.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

- I have no strong feelings about whether or not they should be be able to create food out of nothing. Though anything created out of thin air, or transfigured should have a time limit which would be a possible explanation.

- I rather think that Hermione should stfu about stealing food when they're starving whilst trying to thwart Voldemort. Exactly what does she think would happen to the muggles if the Death Eaters cast their eyes on them? Nothing, because JKR can no longer write, but common sense indicates that they'd eventually become target practice. It's not as if they were stealing money from the tills, and risking the cashiers jobs. A big supermarket chain loses vast amounts from shoplifting and still makes profits. I agree it's wrong to steal, but come on! Also, I won't be preached to by Hermione who lost the moral high ground with Scargate and by apparently dropping SPEW. Being nice to slaves is NOT the same as fighting against slavery. She wasn't bought up in this world, where it's always been ok, so had no excuse. B*tch.

- Anyway this would all be irrelevant if they'd just do the storyline and my blood pressure a favour and call a b*stard House Elf for crying out loud!

- I agree that this makes them seem like typical teenagers, but we've watched them grow up over 10 years. We didn't need (so much) more of the same. We need action!

- Ron was especially tiresome here, though the Horcrux was making him (and us) suffer. He's one of the babies of his family, and treated as such, unlike only child Hermione and human house elf Harry, so it's not suprising he's less mature, but enough already. That said, I do like snarky Ron - reminds me of the good old days.

- I don't feel in the slightest bit sorry for Harry. I don't think he needed to be a hero or superhuman to have sorted something out. The first night in Grimmauld Place, he should have sat them down and explained that Dumbledore's death left him completely clueless - that Dumbles had died before completing (or starting) his education. Hermione would surely have come up with something, maybe taking advantage of the large dark library that's bound to be at Grimmauld Place - home of the Blacks.

- They could also have changed their appearance and snuck into Hogwarts to research the Founders for clues. Better still, sent a House Elf to retrieve the locket from Umbridge then snuck into the Chamber of Secrets to destroy the locket and save us a lot of trouble. In fact, there should have been a Horcrux in the chamber - if you needed parseltongue to get in, what better protection? (Before Harry was on the scene). Better than under the floorboards of the orphanage.

- The school would be practically empty in August, except a few teachers. If Filch was still employed they could avoid him - or better still he could catch them then let them continue, he'd be no fan of Voldemort. The thing is, why does it have to dawn on Ron and Hermione over endless dull weeks that Harry didn't know what he was doing? Why not be honest? Why not be a *leader*, and delegate tasks according to strengths. Thinking? Hmmmm, Hermione, over here!

[anehan]

Though anything created out of thin air, or transfigured should have a time limit which would be a possible explanation.

That's what I thought was the explanation. But apparently not, since we have this Gamp's law, to which food is one of five exceptions.

Also, I won't be preached to by Hermione who lost the moral high ground with Scargate and by apparently dropping SPEW.

Hermione is one of my favourite characters, but my god, she really can be a hypocritical bastard.

That said, I do like snarky Ron - reminds me of the good old days.

He's delightful when he manages to nail something with his snarking. Makes me feel conflicted, though, since I enjoy hating Ron.

In fact, there should have been a Horcrux in the chamber - if you needed parseltongue to get in, what better protection?

Exacltly what I was thinking.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

* Go you, Hermione! I think you're right that you end up doing the cooking because you're a girl.

Ron's assumption that Hermione is automatically better at household charms, something she wouldn't have learned at school, is pure sexism. Also dumb, because they've got Harry who can cook the Muggle way. Not that he would, of course. Beneath his dignity, and it might look like he learned something useful from the Dursleys.

BTW, why is his name Nigellus, if he is a Black? Did he want a fancier name than "Black" and changed it into its Latinate form?

It seems before they got into astronomy the Blacks used to go for showy double-barrelled names. Phineas is Phineas Nigellus Black, the woman who wanted to hunt Muggles for sport was Araminta Melliflua Black and etc. As to why use a name that already means "black", either purebloods like to overdetermine or the author likes to mock them. In support of the latter theory I give you Brutus Malfoy.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Ron's assumption that Hermione is automatically better at household charms, something she wouldn't have learned at school, is pure sexism.
Agreed. The thing which bothers me, however, is that, OTOH, it's clearly the author's intention to show it as sexism, but, OTOH, all that hermione, the progeressive super-witch, ever does about it is grumble. What are we supposed to learn from that? A feminist is a woman who lets herself get fucked over but refuses heroically to like it?

[anehan]

I really don't like to think what Hermione and Ron's marriage will be like. Ron will expect a second Molly, whereas Hermione comes from a family in which both parents work.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

Oh, come on, Hermione's a good girl That means she secretly desires domesticity above all (just like Fleur, Ginny, Molly, and Tonks) - you're a woman, you do too!
She hasn't even been asked to wash Ron's pants, she volunteers. (At sixteen. Jesus, I wouldn't even do my own laundry at that age unless forced! Of course, I hadn't meet my soulmate, either, so I guess I'm condemned to a lonely, possibly evil life.)

[anehan]

Of course, I hadn't meet my soulmate, either, so I guess I'm condemned to a lonely, possibly evil life.

Alas, so am I. Our souls must be Slytherins, since no one else could be such bad girls as to want something else from life than being our husbands' slaves.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Ron's assumption that Hermione is automatically better at household charms, something she wouldn't have learned at school, is pure sexism.

I thought it was because he and Harry just let Hermione do everything anyway - like their homework, their thinking...

Also dumb, because they've got Harry who can cook the Muggle way.

The Muggle way is too beneath any wizard or witch to even think about. Harry is the Hero of this Epic. He can't do anything demeaning without being forced into it and his friends are too sycophantic to do such a thing.

[sunlit-music.livejournal.com]

Though I kind of like the goblins here. "I am not a house-elf." Teehee!

Heh. I like how the Goblins have a lot more dignity than the house elves and insist on being treated with respect. The way Harry views Goblins and treats their feelings and beliefs is horrible and disrespectful (not to mention racist - he didn't seem to care about Goblin's views on ownership. Nor did he care about how Goblins felt about his taking the Sword of Gryffindor).

Harry seems to care about rescuing racial minorities, but he doesn't seem to care about respecting them as equals (or respecting Goblins' beliefs, for that matter).

Although... if we had had the Trio lose their wands early on (maybe in the Ministry adventure), then this would make a lot more sense. And it would be truly exciting and frightening. It should be terrifying to a wizard not to have a wand after relying on it for six years.

Oh, definitely. The camping scene could have been harrowing and full of suspense if the Trio *had* lost their wands. Unfortunately, it ended up sounding unsuspenseful and boring, as Hermione could do everything, including most of the thinking. It reminds me of how baeraad asked on his blog why *Hermione* isn't the Chosen One, as opposed to Harry.

Yeah, this I don't get. Why should anyone believe in Harry? He's had adventures, sure. He's also temperamental, moody and insular. All of this could add up to "future dark lord" as easily as it could add up to 'hero.'

Hehe...now I want to read a fanfic where Harry becomes a Dark Lord.

[anehan]

The Goblin subplot is, IMO, one of those where Rowling has created a really tantalising situation but ultimately fails to bring it to a satisfying conclusion. It really is characteristic of all of Rowling's subplots that concern magical creatures, be they house-elves, goblins or werewolves.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Once again, I think this is something that can be put down to a non-fantasy reader trying to write a fantasy series. Sher knows what the tropes are, and sort of how they fit together. But she doesn't have a clue as to how they might work if you try to extrapolate them as *real*.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

It could probably work if the trope was brought into line with the real world - goblins as sentient beings being accorded the respect each sentient being deserves, for instance.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Well, yes it would. Only, by this point in the series, I don't think that Rowling had enough interest in the subject to even try to extrapolate anything other than her central plotline. And she did a piss-poor job of even that. The goblins were just set dressing by that point.

Although, I suspect that we were always going to have to do a Gringotts break-in. Having one of the DEs stash it in their vault is a too reasonable an element not to have been a part of the original Plan. Only, once again, she never gave it the development and follow through the readers needed. This was not acceptably developed merely by having one of the Weasleys working for Gringotts. Even if -- in her head -- the several mentions of that fact were assumed to be.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Bill had nothing to do with the break-in, though. I think you're right and she was setting the break-in up from PS/SS but the follow-through fell through.

If she was just trying to give atmosphere by having goblins and house elves and (half-)giants and etc., that's one thing - I can see them in the background. She tried to bring them into the plot, which was a mistake if set-dressing was all they were there for. I could have lived with the Gringotts goblins in the background even if Bill worked for them - shadowy and undeveloped with their own culture but working with wizards for their own gain as well as, or in spite of, the gain for the wizards. We all have people on our periphery that we interact with in limited ways but don't understand - pollsters come to mind in my case. ;) I think you're right that she burned out on the story and anything "real" she was going to do just fell by the wayside and we were stuck with the long and boring camping trip because that's all that would surface in her burned-out mind.