HBP Chapter Twenty-Three

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Forgot to do this yesterday!



*After a year of endless and (to me) uninteresting discussions in fandom about the subject, it’s very hard for me to not automatically skip anything with "Horcrux" in the title.

*Harry goes back to Gryffindor, which means an obligatory "arguing with the fat lady" scene. You know, a magical portrait may sound enchanting, but as a security system it sucks. The Fat Lady’s got all the drawbacks of a human guard (she wanders away, falls asleep, gets into pissy moods and lies about the passwords) and none of the advantages (she doesn’t let in a kid she’s seen a million times if he’s forgotten the password, but lets in the wild-eyed shaggy murderer with the knife as long as he’s got one).

*I’d like to think Slytherin’s disappearing wall is a little more sophisticated, comically villainous passwords aside.

*ETA: Meanwhile the Ravenclaw one lets in anybody good with riddles.

*Nick mentions the Baron again. I’m still wary of being too hopeful, but it honestly seems that since OotP (when it was introduced by the Sorting Hat’s new song) the books have consistently brought up that Nick and the Baron are friends. The Baron’s given him a sympathetic description of how Dumbledore looked when he came back to the castle, and Nick knows one of the Baron’s favorite pastimes is groaning and clanking in the Astronomy Tower.

*ETA: Never mind. The Baron's just mentioned I guess because he's going to have his five minutes of fame as yet another lovesick Slytherin who can help Harry.

*Harry, following his usual pattern, makes it clear he doesn’t care about the Bloody Baron, or anything else Nick might have to say that he doesn’t think concerns him directly.

*ETA: Yup, he'll care about the Baron when his story is directly connected to the thing he's ready to look for. I remember in one review of DH, I can't remember which one, somebody pointed out how people are always randomly telling Harry their life story when Harry even though he's pretty lacking in interest in others.

*Slughorn tells us Horcruxes are "very dark stuff." So for anybody trying to figure out exactly what Dark Magic is, splitting your soul into pieces so that you don’t die counts. As does a spell that cuts like a knife, we’ll learn later. Causing painful skin ailments and mind-wipes are still okay.

*ETA: Also, apparently, torture curses when done for good reason.

*Harry recognizes a master at work watching Riddle try to get information out of Slughorn. Marvel at how blatantly obvious about it he is, so that Harry can clearly see him manipulating. Watch how he barely keeps himself from salivating as he asks the question—that’s the way it’s done. None of that amateurish stuff where it’s so subtle you’re not aware that it happening.

*Why does Slughorn’s face crumple when he describes what a Horcrux does? One would think he had seen it happen.

*Tom, Master of Subtlety, has now allowed his tongue to roll out on the floor and is audibly panting.

*Slughorn explains that splitting the soul is bad, mmmkay. Because it’s against nature. Unlike biting teacups, hamsters transmogrified into shoes and cars that fly as God intended.

*Wizards of a certain caliber have always been drawn to these aspects of magic. What, the murderous, dark kind or the immortality kind? Because I actually am seeing a pretty clear pattern between being too much of a creative thinker and being evil. (Note difference between creative thinker and grind.)

*ETA: It really is a pretty casual throughline from being intellectual to evil. Why would only wizards of a certain caliber want to live forever? I know Dumbledore is at the heart of this, but come on, living forever isn't something that only occurs to you when you get smart enough.

*Tom suggests, reasonably, that seven horcruxes would be better than one and Slughorn gets the vapors. My god, Tom! Isn’t it bad enough to think of killing one person! Imagine killing seven! One can see why Slughorn would be so oversensitive to the idea. Wizards are so non-violent as a rule.

*Harry’s surprised to see that the wild look of joy on Tom’s face does not enhance his handsome features. You’d think anything would enhance those handsome features. He’s really handsome, that Dark Lord!

*Still not seeing how Slughorn comes off all that badly in this memory. Or why there was any reason to hide it since it’s not like he gave Tom the idea for anything or helped him in his plan in any way. Or why it was so important for us to see the memory instead of Slughorn just confirming that Voldemort did ask him about Horcruxes once and all but announced his plan to make seven of his own as soon as possible.

*ETA: Really, I don't get why Slughorn didn't tell somebody about this years ago. I would say that that's why he really comes off badly, that he knew this important thing and never told anyone, but once it's clear Dumbledore already knows you'd think he'd finally be helpful.

*ETA: In the end I have no idea why Slughorn is the guy that actually comes back to fight when no other Slytherin does.

*So Tom for some reason hasn’t killed Slughorn for knowing about his interest in seven Horcruxes but he has killed every single person along the way who gave him more practical help in making them. Well, at least he was practical in killing those other people.

*Dumbledore’s been hoping for this piece of "evidence" (not like he’s using it in a trial or solving a murder) for a long time. A time that would have been shorter if he hadn’t insisted on sending Harry after it.

*Dumbledore’s now figured out what to do…not that he’s going to share it with us outright. Harry will in fact end the book with little more knowledge than he’s got now.

*ETA: And will begin the next book with even less, practically, since Dumbledore decides to send him coy little hints in fairy tales.

*Harry asks if Voldemort didn’t possibly split his soul in two. Bless his little brain, he hasn’t worked his way up to seven yet even after that memory.

*Call me a Dark Wizard, but I’m a bit surprised that Voldemort’s the first one to ever split his soul into more than two pieces. I’ve spent six years with these people and I think they’d all have at least three soul pieces on their bathroom shelf by now.

*Frankly, I’m surprised Hufflepuff hasn’t been re-named "Bodies for Soul Splitting" House by now. I'm sure they'd volunteer if important hero wizards needed it. Like say, Harry and Hermione.

*Dumbledore explains how he knew the diary was a Horcrux because he’d never heard of anything so strange as a mere memory starting to think and act for itself. Unlike, you know, that painted portrait of a lady who just recently independently decided to lie to our hero about the password because he annoyed her. Or the photograph of Percy Weasley that decided to walk out of the picture on its own. Or the oil paintings surrounding Dumbledore that regularly comment on current events. Or the mirrored reflections that talk back.

*In the final battle Harry will fight under a red and gold standard that reads "I still don’t understand."

*ETA: My bad. He'll fight under a red and gold standard that reads "I finally understand a one or two things!"

*Dumbledore then explains how the fact that the diary had another purpose besides being a Horcrux indicated to him that Voldemort had made or had been planning to make others. I mention this because that’s actually a nice piece of deductive reasoning that makes sense.

*Okay, maybe it’s a little tainted by the fact I just sat through:
Riddle: So if you can make one Horcrux, how about seven?
Slughorn: Seven? Why Seven?
Riddle: Seven is a magic number.
Slughorn: Still, seven Horcruxes?
Riddle: I like seven. Seven is a good number of Horcruxes to have.
Slughorn: Are you thinking of making a Horcrux, then?
Riddle: I’m thinking of making seven.

*Dumbledore again makes a veiled reference to his dead hand. Seems he was almost killed destroying the ring, but was saved because he’s so great and so is Snape. Can’t say things are looking too good for Harry, who’s going to have to destroy four more of these things without either of them.

*ETA: Actually he didn't hurt his hand destroying the ring at all. He was almost killed trying the stupid thing on.

*Btw, that wasn’t "the story of what happened to my hand" was it? Because if I were Harry and was expected to take it from here, I’d want more than just "terrible curse—good thing Snape was there and I’m so awesome."

*ETA: Yeah, that probably was the only story of "what happened to my hand" Dumbledore was ever planning to give to Harry. Not that Harry will notice a difference when he gets the real thing.

*'The locket!' Harry said loudly. ‘Hufflepuff’s cup!’ I don’t know what’s sillier about the use of the word "loudly" here. The way it makes Harry sound mentally challenged, or the way it highlights JKR’s adverb-dependency.

*It doesn’t help that a couple paragraphs later Harry’s counting on his fingers. Probably loudly. And slowly. And consecutively.

*Dumbledore suggests that Voldemort’s soul might also be encased in his cat Fiddle. Err…I mean his snake Nagini. Voldemort’s never read Diana Wynn Jones.

*I hope Nagini isn’t a Horcrux. I find the idea lame.

*ETA: Oh well. Though it's kind of funny the way Dumbledore says he isn't sure to make it seem like they'll be some surprise.

*ETA: A surprise apart from the shock that Draco Malfoy was the wand's master for a few weeks when it didn't matter and we didn't know about it.

*Dumbledore says Harry can come on his next Horcrux hunt. Harry feels his heart lift because it’s good to not hear words of caution and protection for once. Frankly, when dealing with Gryffindor I think one should always go heavy on the words of caution and protection. Even if they’re just going into the bathroom.

*Hee. I love Lucius. When I picture him having to tell Voldemort about the diary I always picture Dr. Evil’s henchman having to tell him how they got sick of waiting for him so they went ahead and created Scott.

*Lucius. Another character who's far more interesting off-screen than he is on.

*So Lucius was also trying to get rid of the diary as an incriminating object in CoS, as was foreshadowed in the B&B scene. He really was trying to cut some ties there.

*I confess: I love FuckUp!Lucius. ETA: In my defense there I thought Lucius would do something interesting.

*Remember Harry, even if Voldemort has a damaged soul his brain is intact. Given Voldemort’s brilliant plan in GoF, I think his brain being intact might actually be an advantage to the good guys.

*Dumbledore impresses on Harry that his ability to love really is amazing, after all he’s been through. Well, that ought to appeal to Harry. "It’s amazing that you are such a great guy what with all the assholes you’re surrounded by and all the great suffering you face every day. You really deserve extra credit just for not going postal and killing everyone. Instead you allow others to be your friend. How are you so awesome?"

*Dumbledore then goes on to explain, most wonderfully, that by "power of love" he means "vengeful rage and vague feeling that honor demands you murder your parents’ killer." Phew! I was worried about everything resting on Harry Potter’s capacity for love, but if you’re going to define love that way Harry’s your man.

*ETA: Even more fortunately, love doesn't figure in at all. Harry is saved by his being better than Draco Malfoy, which he's been since he met him.

*Dumbledore’s getting impatient with Harry now. Clever the way Rowling has Dumbledore be patient while Harry was not getting the obvious, but when it comes to the part of the story that any reader might question along with him he’s having none of it. Move along now. Nothing to see here.

*ETA: It's no wonder Dumbledore has no friends. Sometimes Batman can be a dick, but Dumbledore is like so much worse. And he doesn't have any of Batman's good points.

*Dumbledore then goes on to give another inspiring speech about vengeance. The story’s about love, I tell you. Love!

*Another stunning piece of HP Logic: Voldemort kills Harry’s Mum and Dad. He accidentally gives him powers and occasional flashes into his mind. Yet Harry has never become tempted to become one of Voldemort’s followers. Which proves that Harry…is protected by his ability to love? WTF? I would say it more just suggests that becoming a follower of someone chasing you with murderous intent is a conflict of interest. How would you even go about it? Once you actually learned of the guy's existance, that is.

*In short: Pure of heart my arse.

*So the point of all Dumbledore’s hyperventilating is that the Prophecy that we all thought was so useless at the end of the last book was in fact just as useless as we all thought at the end of the last book. Good to know. Let’s move on.

*This chapter may read differently if you’re a Gryffindor, and the only two choices you’d really consider are walking into the arena with your head held high or being dragged. Not so much if you’re Slytherin (Can I just pay a fine in lieu of deadly combat?) a Hufflepuff (My friends and I drove the enemy out of town with pitchforks last night so I wouldn’t have to fight him alone) or a Ravenclaw (our society outlawed mortal combat for sport years ago because it’s stupid, so we arranged a prison break last night and I’m writing you from Venice).

*Seriously, Harry’s medieval mind is far purer than his heart. When he says that "some people" wouldn’t see the difference between those two situations of deadly combat, you can practically hear the contempt for those kinds of people—they’re just too resigned and craven to not be inflamed the way Harry is by the prospect. It totally doesn’t occur to him that someone not seeing a big difference between those two choices might not be giving up but thinking bigger.




Designated Hero
Harry is Pure of Heart. We know this by the way he looked into the Mirror of Desire and saw not riches or immortality but the ability to stop the guy who was trying to kill him. So not remarkable in any way. Even if Harry didn’t already have riches and even if Harry weren’t too young at eleven to want immortality.

Exploitation Filmmakers’ Credo
Without this rule this chapter would be two and a half pages long. Most of it’s devoted to Harry learning about the difference between being dragged into an arena for deadly battle and walking into the arena with your head held high, which he learned more dramatically in GoF.

IITS
Err…I know Tom’s questions about horcruxes are a little morbid, but why is Slughorn acting like Tom’s eaten a kitten in front of him? Oh…IITS.

Idiot Picture
So Voldemort’s hidden his soul bits all in places that one can figure out from reading his autobiography, because it never occurred to him that once he started taking over the world anyone would bother to be interested in his past. Thanks Tom!

Informed Attributes
I can’t believe I just read a chapter in a children’s book devoted to twisting the power of love into a thirst for vengeance because that’s our hero’s real strong point.

Ken and Andrew’s Rule of Plot Holes
"But sir, why did I spend the whole last big fat book running after that Prophecy that you were keeping secret from me when it was totally redun…" SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME TALK ABOUT LOVE!

Misdirected Answering
Yes, but how do I destroy the damn things, sir? Without shriveling up limbs right and left?

Final score: 7

Slytherin liquid count: Flashback to Slughorn means Pensieve water and more mead.

Comments

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

ETA: You left out the 'Oops!' that showed Slughorn telling us, flat-out, *on screen* that the subject of Horcruxes was *already* banned at Hogwarts, a full dozen years at least before Albus became Headmaster, and that Tom wouldn't find anything more in the Library than that one passing reference in that one book. (Probably the same one that Hermione found some 50 years later.)

I suppose that Rowling is convinced that is she has *Harry* flatly contriadict what we've just learned, in the next book firmly enough, we'll all just roll over and accept it.

Thanks, Joanne 'Retcon-is-my-Middle-Name' Rowling.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh right! Yeah, whatever sounds good at the time will do. As long as you're going to have Hermione come up with the easy solution of saying "Accio books on Horcruxes" when we assumed that surely that wouldn't be possible...

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>Yeah, whatever sounds good at the time will do.<

Oh, it's not just whatever sounds good at the time. It's whatever makes the most sweepingly dramatic and *absolute* statement, possible, is the *only* thing that will do. And if totally contradicts something that you decide to invoke later in the series just contradict it firmly enough in the character of one of the "good guys" and everyone will have to at least *pretend* to roll over and take it.

Or, in other words. I think "Accio books" got thrown in, because Rowling hadn't the energy to think of anything more plausible. (I.e., Who told Hermione that Albus even had the missing Horcrux books in his study?)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's the thing that really surprised me about the Accio thing, that he even had the books. Because yeah, looking back I suppose it makes sense since he's the one who was Horcrux hunting. But am I right in remembering (and is this what you're referring to) that in DH it's suggested that Dumbledore removed all these books from the library himself, while in HBP we're told there weren't any books on Horcruxes in the library even before Tom entered school? Not that Dumbledore couldn't have tracked down his own, but that's the idea, isn't it?

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

I rather think so. The real shell game is to distract us from remembering that Sluggy *told* us that the subject had been *banned*, by the time Tom showed up and started asking questions. The timing isn't clear as to just *when* it was banned, but it was before Tom started interrogating Sluggy. That was quite unambiguous. Whether it was the year before or the decade doesn't matter. Sluggy was able to tell Tom that he would *not* find the information in the *Library*, and the next book Harry flatly contradict's him on no evidence whatsoever. And we are expected to just suck it up.

It could have worked out without a conflict. The subject could have been banned, and the books removed to the 7th floor storage room (which I suspect is how the RoR is known by all of the staff) on Dippett's authority. That Tom later found them *there*, and that later (possibly much later, and certainly after he had become Head) Albus began to get suspicious about what Tom had been up to, retrieved them himself, and put them in the Headmaster's study where no one else would be able to casually wander in and find them, if they knew the trick about pacing back and fourth three times before the dancing troll painting. In that case Harry might possibly be correct in his pronouncement that Tom already knew the information before he asked Slughorn about multiple ones.

But that would have required five minutes of reasoning, and a paragraph or two of exposition, and Rowling didn't think the readers were worth *that*.

Actually, He might not have retrieved them until after CoS in this iteration.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

But that would have required five minutes of reasoning, and a paragraph or two of exposition, and Rowling didn't think the readers were worth *that*.
***Or another case of things that were so obvious to JKR she didn't realise it wasn't to the readers. That's a mistake all writers make, and one reason to have a beta reader or two.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Yup. I've been saying all year that the last books are basically unbetaed fic. By the time DHs was pending, the security was so tight that I'll bet it was as much as they could bother with to proofread it.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

- I still think JKR should have used the Chamber more. If I was a budding meglomaniac, soul splitter and active parslemouth with a giant basilisk at my personal disposal, I'd keep all my precious trinkets in its lair, and no mistake.

- At the end of Book 2, Dumbledore could have taken Harry's memories of events "for his records", or to use to publicly expose Lockhart. There'd be no reason to introduce the Pensieve itself until Book 4 (isn't that when we first see it - the Trial?)

- In Book 6 Dumbledore could say that he'd studied the memory and phoenetically learnt to repeat Harry's hisses to re-enter the Chamber. I had no trouble with Ron saying 'open' in a language he couldn't speak - after all, you don't have to speak parsletongue to recite one or two words (or hisses!) like a parrot. But if Dumbledore had practiced beforehand, it might be more convincing for those who disagree with me.

- Dumbledore could then find a note-book relating to Voldemort's horcruxes, his interest in Hogwarts' artefacts and THE RING. By the time Voldemort left school, he wouldn't need the notes anymore, (having already created a couple) and it wouldn't be stupid to presume them safe in the Chamber. It’d be better if Dumbledore discovered his near obsession with the founders this way, rather than just guessed. Otherwise, as sistermagpie points out, it does seem rather signposted, and foolish on Voldemort’s part. JKR could link his wanting to come back to the school to him wanting to hide the Tiara in there but having to use the RoR as a Plan B when he had no time.

- Dumbles could say he didn't destroy the ring immediately, in case Voldemort could detect the destruction in some way (as if!) because he didn't want Voldemort to realise that two of his horcruxes were destroyed. Instead he planned to collect all the horcruxes, with Harry helping once he tuned 17, and destroy them all in one go. Then he finally gave in to temptation, got his hand blown up and had to move quickly.

- Honestly, why do I worry about this more than JKR did?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think Crookshanks is mentioned throughout. I can't remember what they do with him in DH, but there might be some reference to him staying at the Weasleys. He doesn't do anything like he did in PoA, but I think Harry often sees him first at the Weasleys and that tells him that Hermione's there, for instance.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

He drops completely out of the story altogether after the raid on the wedding. We never hear of him again and Hermione never even thinks to ask.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

After what she did to her parents, he probably packed a knapsack and ran off looking for a friendly taxidermist who'd be a far better bet!

That said, Remus also shone in Book 3 and faded to the background after that. At least Crookshanks wasn't forced into a sudden unconvincing marriage....

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

But Remus had a reason to disappear, since he was fired. It was the fandom who didn't want to let him go. Remember how we all loved him?

I remember though, in a post-HBP discussion speculating that Snape might, like all the other titular characters/objects/places, become irrelevant in the final book. Little did I know then how right I was!

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

It would have made sense to have simply redone the security on the Chamber once they knew where the entrance was. The sheer negligence of the Hogwarts staff is amazing. And the place could certainlyhave done with furthur examination. (Not to mention the sheer *waste* of a honest-to-ghod 1000-year-old Basilisk just left to rot, rather than being harvested! The venom didn't *have* to be left in the Chamber.)

I don't seem much point of publicly exposing Lockhart. The man was certainly no threat to anyone now. But exposing who Lord Voldemort really *was*, along with Tom's *own admission* that he was a literal halfblood might have been useful information to release to the public, in Tom's absence.

And yes, having the fresh record of the whole incident in Albus's possession couldn't have hurt, even if it didn't end up being used again. It would have established that there *were* memory records, somewhere in the Headmaster's suite.

Actually, Riddle's fixation on Founder's artifacts, in general, is not particularly signposted. In fact it is not really *established* at all until we get to the memory with Hepzibah Smith. Albus may have waved the suggestion around before then, and we accept it, assumiung tyhat Albus has some source of information unknown to us, but we are never shown anything to support it until we reach that memory. And after the Gaunt memory some chapters earlier, it is easy enough to speculate that Tom has been trying to trace the Locket, since it is connected to his *own* family.

In fact, up to the point of the Hepzibah memory there is nothing to say that Tom had any interest in artifacts that were not directly connected to *himself* and the Diary, Ring, and Locket all were.

Now, what *I* want to know, is whether Albus managed to guess that Tom had managed to sweet-talk information about the Diadem out of the Grey Lady. And if so, how?

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

I didn't think exposing Lockhart would enhance the storyline! I just presumed it happened anyway, so Dumbledore could use it as an excuse to get Harry's memory. After all, he wouldn't want to arouse Harry's keen intelligence and curiosity......

I don't like talking about Voldemort's half blood status being kept quiet, it's bad for my blood pressure. I find it even more unbearably ridiculous then the Trio starving for many boring months when their 'leader' had a super magical slave, and a super magical ex-slave both yearning to grant his every desire. I understand both omissions were necessary to the 'plot' but why not come up with a decent explanation? Instead JKR just left holes the sizes of tanks in her story. Tut.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>I understand both omissions were necessary to the 'plot' but why not come up with a decent explanation?<

Well while you're at it, why not just ask for a million dollars?

And maybe ask why she didn't just come up with a better plot in the first place...

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is she thinks she did. I remember her saying on three separate occasions that DH was the best book she'd written. She didn't even add "apart from the first four, of course". I was so excited about it before it was published, I thought it would be a return to form. Sigh.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

- Honestly, why do I worry about this more than JKR did?

Yes.