Deathly Hallows, chapter 20

[anehan]

Xenophilius Lovegood

* Ron is elated, because someone is on their side! Someone is helping them! Oh, how I would love to see his face when he realized it was Snape all along.

* One Horcrux down! says Ron. If I were him, I wouldn't be quite so cheerful about it. It's past Christmas already, and they haven't made any progress beyond destroying that one Horcrux.

* The Trio gets back to discussing the possible locations of the Horcruxes, despite the fact that they have already discussed that subject to death. Only now it's somehow different, because they've got someone helping them! Rejoice!

* Oh yeah, the Taboo. One more thing in which Dumbledore did Harry a disservice was to encourage him to use Voldemort's name. He should have known it was possible to track someone by what they say. Names apparently have power.

* But if names do have power, why haven't we ever heard of magic done using names before? Or have we and I'm just not remembering it? I'm reminded of the Wizard of Earthsea that handles the power of naming things very well.

* I think Ron's hope that it was Dumbledore who was helping them with the doe and the sword is not at all consistent with Dumbledore's character. It's true that Dumbledore liked to be mysterious and not give straight answers, but he also liked to get credit for what he did. Anonymity wouldn't be Dumbledore's choice at all. No, anonymity spells Severus Snape so clearly that I'm surprised Hermione at least doesn't figure it out. It's not that Snape doesn't want recognition but that he's used to going without it.

* BTW, does anyone know whether Snape got an Order of Merlin posthumously? Has Rowling said anything about it? Or is the only tribute to him the name of Harry Potter's second son, a name he has to share with that old bastard, Dumbledore? *gags*

* Of course Hermione would recognize what Harry's new wand was made of. What wouldn't our know-it-all know. Probably she was a joiner or carpenter in her former life.

* Harry has forgotten Ron's fear of spiders. I think that's quite a feat, considering their adventure is CoS. Just goes to show how much attention Harry pays to his best friend.

* I think Harry is unfair in comparing a visit to Xenophilius Lovegood with their visit to Godric's Hollow. Hermione has a perfectly valid reason to see Mr Lovegood, whereas Harry just wanted to visit his parents' grave in Godric's Hollow. As if he couldn't have done it after the war was over. Or before it started. But no, he had to get a burning desire to do it in the middle of a war. Really, sometimes I feel the poor boy's brain has been permanently damaged by the connection to Voldemort.

* Harry asks if the symbol was important, wouldn't Dumbledore have told him about it before he died. Really, the boy is addle-brained. Has he already forgotten how many important things Dumbledore did not tell him? Like the location of the Horcruxes or how to destroy them?

* Mr Lovegood doesn't want them to come in. Warning bells ring! Except in the minds of the Trio.

* Of course the know-it-all has to make an issue of the Erumpent horn, as if she could afford to alienate Mr Lovegood.

* Oh no, Harry is getting sentimental over Ginny. And I thought we had been spared this when he passed the Burrow without getting maudlin.

* Ah, let's bludgeon us with the fact that Xenophilius Lovegood is eccentric. Wrackspurts, Gurdyroots. Plimpsies. What else? It's really getting very tiresome.

* Really, if Mr Lovegood's reluctance in helping them hadn't given them a warning, then the fact that Luna didn't immediately come to meet them should have given them a clue that not everything was as it should have been.

* Another chapter in which nothing happened. I don't really know why I bother to do these recaps when you can't even get anything juicy out of the chapters because they are so boring.

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

In Ron's defense, maybe he doesn't know they only have until June to do all this. For all he knows they've got years. Though I guess that's even more reason for him to be scared at how long it's taking.

I wouldn't be surprised, if Snape got any Orders of Merlin, it was because Harry got it for him. Thus Snape's accolades become symbols of Harry's being a great guy. The minute he found out Snape loved his mother Snape became like Neville to him.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Did JKR not mention that Snape wasn't automatically granted a Headmaster's portrait because he abandoned the job, however GoldenPolyJuiceBoy *insisted* that he got one?

Also, Neville was 100 x the hero that Harry was. Not least because he followed a character arc where he started a shambling wreck and ended a courageous hero. Harry? Um.....

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think she did say that. Which completely goes against what we've seen previously--nobody had to argue for Dumbledore to get a portrait, it just appeared magically. If the office could magically understand that Umbridge didn't deserve to be headmaster you'd think it would be able to tell about Snape too. It seems a bit overkill to have to put it all on Harry, especially since it's not like he didn't announce Snape's heroism to the whole WW in his expository speech.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

...especially since it's not like he didn't announce Snape's heroism to the whole WW in his expository speech.

And in the heart of the castle itself. The string of post-DHs questions and answers about Snape just seem to dodge, dodge, dodge until she guages her audience correctly, and then she still had to make it Harry's doing.

[eri1980b.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you. Its almost as if she doesn't want anyone to like him, therefore always brings it back to Harry. Snape was an undercover agent haunted by past mistakes. Harry was just a tool.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Its almost as if she doesn't want anyone to like him...

Almost?

...therefore always brings it back to Harry.

...the only one in the WW who can get things done through the Power of Total Inaction.

Snape was an undercover agent haunted by past mistakes.

A much more nuanced take than simply pining over a dead woman for a decade or two.

Harry was just a tool.

Swinging from Dumbledore's belt.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

:D

As was said downthread, some characters get away from authorial constraints and this is one who did.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I thought it might have been you but I was too lazy to check. It's still true. I've written, never published anything but a poem (and some fanfic), but even poems have a way of getting away from you and taking on independent life.

Regret makes much more sense. People get over unrequited crushes. IMO, he knew the possibility was nullified when he and Lily talked outside of Gryffindor after he called her a Mudblood. He should have known - but who ever wants to recognize something like this - that she had already walked away from him when she had to hide a snicker when James & Co. upended him. He just needed something to kick-start his brain, I guess. His own action would be a good catalyst.

We don't always get over regret. Especially over something as horrific as getting someone killed. Especially an old friend. Even if that friend is no longer cordial. Things I could have done differently can make my stomach churn almost as good as ipecac and, as far as I know, my actions have never led to a death.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

(My remark about inducing vomiting, by the way, was a snarky aside regarding the romanticizing of the "unrequited love" motif in literature, not an observation about the power of either unrequited love or regret to make us physically ill.)

Yeah, I know, but I thought I'd run with it anyway. :)

Thoughts?

Yes, absolutely on the love or crush turning to hatred. It happens all the time. But we get over it, see other people, and finally assess things as they really were, not as we wished them to be, and realize that maybe this wasn't the best pairing. Joining a group would help the separation process. Not that the DEs are the best group but, refocusing on advancement and, as you say, what one can get out of the experience, one can stop obsessing on the lost relationship and move on to other things. That's why parents redirect and keep kids occupied.

A loner would more than likely make up a "social story" to go along with the separation and the (transitory) hate. I think Severus was a loner. See Petunia's reaction to him - he's weird, he's that Snape kid from Spinner's End. Probably got that from almost all the kids in town.

In the end, Lily shared a part of his life that no one else shared. You really can't go back "home," that is, to childhood again. The mores of society change, the music changes, the shared culture changes, the people age, move on, die. The possibilities of childhood are endless and unhindered, not narrowed, by subsequent choices. The person who shared all of that has a special place in one's life. That person cannot be replaced. When Lily of all people was targeted, all of those irrational emotional strings were pulled at once. It's deeper than just a friend who didn't share a special time getting targeted and killed - this is the friend of innocent childhood, absolutely. She is irreplaceable. Even if she no longer exists in the form Severus once knew, she carries all of that with the mention of her. The later stuff - the rejection, the growing apart, the hooking up with the enemy, all of that, can't stand against those early and primal memories.

And, Merlin, she died. Because of something he did. As Claudius says in Hamlet: O heavy burthen!

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

(jumping in REALLY late ;-) )

I totally agree with both of you. I also think that, in addition to the connection with his childhood, Severus also probably strongly associated Lily with magic itself - something he seems to care about very much in the books. Magic offered him (it seemed) a way out of the dullness and misery of the Muggle milltown and his Muggle father, it was something he was *good* at and could take pride in. We saw how he devoted himself to studying it. I would bet that Lily on some level also symbolized to him his innocent hopes for magic and his connection to that side of himself he could justifiably feel good about.

I also figure his repressed anger at Lily goes quite a ways towards explaining his treatment of Harry (beyond the similarities in *behavior* between Harry and James, usually behavior which would piss him off coming from anyone).

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Harry started out as a child who reacts, sometimes too quickly, and ends up being a mushroom. Neville took action, rallied the troops, fought a resistance without the support Harry had through the Order and that joke of a resistance broadcast, and killed the snake. Neville rules.

[anehan]

I wouldn't be surprised, if Snape got any Orders of Merlin, it was because Harry got it for him. Thus Snape's accolades become symbols of Harry's being a great guy.

More than likely. After all, Harry is the only one who knows about Snape's true loyalties, and it would be just like Rowling to make it really All About Harry. I would infinitely prefer Snape going without recognition rather than have Harry be all Noble about getting him it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It's really hilarious when you think about it from that angle. Because remember the first "explanation" we get about Snape is in PS/SS where Dumbledore explains how he hated James so much because he saved his life. And JKR really knows about that kind of hatred--it's related to the way Dumbledore tells us to view Percy, not forgiving his father for being "right." (As usual glossing over any of the ways he was wrong.)

So with Snape for many books he's this guy who hates James for saving his life because it killed him to owe a debt, especially a life debt, to a guy he hated. Then in the end part of the happy ending is practically all of Snape's reputation resting on Harry's goodwill. Harry, naturally, feels so such hatred at the idea that Snape saved his bacon--DH carefully has Harry pretty much forget his hatred in time for him to be magnanimous about it without even needing a transition. But Snape not only owes his life to James and spends his life having to look after his brat, he spends the rest of his afterlife being graciously forgiven for it by James' son.

[anehan]

That is a rather comforting view of Snape. I would love it to be true. He certainly deserves some peace.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

- “One Horcrux down! says Ron. If I were him, I wouldn't be quite so cheerful about it. It's past Christmas already, and they haven't made any progress beyond destroying that one Horcrux.”

Why didn’t they stick the locket in a deserted barn in the middle of nowhere and set it on Fiendfyre? (Sorry, don’t have access to DH, so pardon my spelling). If Crabbe can create it, then Hermione the Magnificent surely could – she certainly knew about it and its properties. It might be impossible to extinguish magically, but once it had run out of fuel wouldn’t it just die out? Or is the Room of Requirement still on fire?

- “ One more thing in which Dumbledore did Harry a disservice was to encourage him to use Voldemort's name.”

I still insist that Dumbledore was hoping that Harry would get himself killed. After all, there was nothing that Harry did that couldn’t be done better by half the Order once Harry's horcrux was taken care of. Hermione was the smartest of the Trio, but she was a large fish in a *very* small pond. Remus, Tonks, Kingsley, McGonagall etc could easily surpass her. Harry’s death, the earlier the better, would have made the operation run a lot smoother. JKR would never admit (even to herself) that Dumbledore was that harsh, so she didn’t address it - making him seem either foolish (he’d never heard of the taboo?) or rather cruel. I know what I think.

- “ Harry has forgotten Ron's fear of spiders. I think that's quite a feat, considering their adventure is CoS. Just goes to show how much attention Harry pays to his best friend.”

He really is a thoughtless b*st*rd isn’t he? Still, at least Ron manages to avoid being brutally tortured when Harry doesn’t bother to remember one of the few pieces of sage advice Ron is allowed to give.

- “ Mr Lovegood doesn't want them to come in. Warning bells ring! Except in the minds of the Trio.”

Ho! Xeno has stuck his neck out for ages supporting Harry in his own way and suddenly he doesn’t want to help him? Suspicious much? Sigh. Also, were the Trio glamoured at all, I forget? It’s just that I remember that Hermione the Magnificent had to hide Ron, but show Harry (while they dribbled down their fronts and twiddled their thumbs presumably) to show the Death Eaters that Xeno wasn’t lying. What was the point of that if they looked different? Do glamours have a time limit? They *must* have been disguised - after Godric’s Hollow, wouldn’t they be even more cautious whenever they had to break cover?

Xeno’s reputation of being pro-Harry started long before the Ministry fell, and added to Luna’s support in the Ministry in Book 5, would indicate that Xeno’s house might be being watched. If I was a Dark Lord, I’d certainly be watching all the homes of Harry’s supporters, both known and suspected, plus Order members etc (anyone who fought in Books 5 and 6 for a start). Actually, I’d have arrested and executed every last one the minute the Ministry had fallen and I was in charge, but that’s just me.

-“ I don't really know why I bother to do these recaps when you can't even get anything juicy out of the chapters because they are so boring.”

I thank both you for making this sacrifice, and Merlin that I don’t have to! It’s a bit dull at the moment, the Owl’s already exploded and the giant snake has burst out of the animated corpse, but worry not! The Know-It-All is due to be tortured anytime now, because Harry is the bestest best friend forever! (Or if not forever, at least until he causes your premature death)

[anehan]

I still insist that Dumbledore was hoping that Harry would get himself killed.

That'd make much more sense than him just being ignorant about the Taboo.

Also, were the Trio glamoured at all, I forget?

Nope, Harry was just under the Invisibility Cloak. Hermione and Ron pranced around as themselves.

Actually, I’d have arrested and executed every last one the minute the Ministry had fallen and I was in charge, but that’s just me.

I was really surprised that he didn't do that. It seems that only Xenophilius' continued public support of Harry caused Voldemort to kidnap Luna to force him to write what they wanted.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Or is the only tribute to him the name of Harry Potter's second son, a name he has to share with that old bastard, Dumbledore? *gags*

I think there are some who would imagine Snape to be honored, or at least grateful, to have this barest nod in his direction. *joins the gagfest*

* Of course Hermione would recognize what Harry's new wand was made of. What wouldn't our know-it-all know. Probably she was a joiner or carpenter in her former life.

She probably makes superior wands even to Olivander in her spare time, only she can't find her lathe in the mess that is the bottomless purse.

* Another chapter in which nothing happened. I don't really know why I bother to do these recaps when you can't even get anything juicy out of the chapters because they are so boring.

It isn't your fault the chapters are boring. The finger points and it doesn't point to you. I'm glad you're doing these recaps. Thanks!

[anehan]

I think there are some who would imagine Snape to be honored, or at least grateful, to have this barest nod in his direction.

I wonder if those people have read the same book that I have. Snape, of course, would love to be beholden to Harry bloody Potter.

only she can't find her lathe in the mess that is the bottomless purse.

At least her purse contains useful things, unlike Harry's super!pouch.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

"Oh yeah the taboo. One more thing in which Dumbledore did Harry a disservice was to encourage him to use Voldemort's name"

Pre-DH JKR treated the fear of saying Voldemort's name like it was just a baseless superstition but in DH it turns out that it wasn't baseless at all.
What I don't understand is why pre-DH no death eaters suddenly appeared when someone said "Voldemort" or why no one told Harry the reason for the fear of saying Voldemort's name. I mean Surerly people have realized there's a taboo on his name by the time Harry was 11.

"I think Harry is unfair comparing a visit to Xenophilius Lovegood with their visit to Godric's Hollow"
Plus if Harry wasn't so dead in the brain he would have thought of asking Xeno about the Ravenclaw horcrux seeing as he knows Luna is a Ravenclaw.
Speaking of the Ravenclaw horcrux- according to DH its identity wasn't a mystery at all but common knowledge: Xeno, Flitwick, Mcgonagall,Ravenclaw students knew about about the diadem. There's no way Dumbeldore didn't know about the diadem.
And yet that idiot decided not to tell this to Harry.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

I thought that Voldemort introduced the Taboo when he took over at the Ministry?

Dumbledore didn't tell Harry about the diadem because...um...no, I've got nothing. You are 500% right. Surely in his 80 odd years of hanging at Hogwarts, he spoke to the Ravenclaw ghost? Surely he'd have a rapport with her by the time he needed to investigate the Ravenclaw artifact? Maybe he kept quiet for a laugh?

It would have been better if Dumbles had thought there were 3 Horcruxes - Locket, ring and diary and he died believing that the job was done (apart from Harryhorcrux, who he planned to warn once the locket was retrieved/he turned 17).

When Harry discovered that the Locket was a fake, HBP would have ended on a cliff hanger. Then early in DH, the Trio would realise through thorough investigation (Ho!)that Voldemort had created six horcruxes, not three and they'd have to work out where and what they were from scratch. That would have been far more more exciting/interesting then loitering in tent. It would be worth dropping the Cup memory for an interesting story, and Dumbledore would look as if he was well meaning, but wrong - not a complete and utter b******

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I thought that Voldemort introduced the Taboo when he took over at the Ministry?

I think you're right there. Probably used something akin to the Trace... you know, that ancient piece of magic we only learned about it DHs because, until then, the Ministry could only trace magic done at a location without knowing who cast it.

But there has to be some reason why people were afraid to speak Voldemort's name. Did he have some mini-version in place and DEs willing to go after the miscreants who used that name? Sort-of like, "Speak of the Devil and he appears?" Only in this case it would be his minions who appeared, not himself.

If that's what she was going for, the set-up was there but never the pay-off. We're left to wonder if there was a real reason or if it's just some superstition, or if Voldy read in the paper about people speaking out against him and sent DEs in after the fact, which would make people reluctant to use the name where others could hear and report that they'd done so.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

As a fan-w*nker, I assumed (because JKR certainly never clarified it) that the Taboo had been used in the distant past by a previous Dark Lord(s). The practice was outlawed and faded into myth/history, but the purebloods from older families, who were bought up steeped in the traditions of the magical world, retained the cautious 'tradition' of not using the names of famed and powerful practioners of evil. Developing this habit would protect them and their children - no matter how young - from activating it by mistake if it should ever be introduced again. Maybe the habit, already entrenched, spread even further when Grindelwald was on the rise - just in case.

I was so sure of this, that I'd forgotten it came from my imagination - why JKR didn't clearly link the Trace to the whole 'You-know-who' thing, I don't know. That's been established since the beginning of the series - who'd care if it was only named in DH? Instead she made it look like brand new magic, in a book there was far too much of that.

Anyway, well meaning Dumbledore was probably keen that the new generation was free of these old fears, so encouraged Harry, as their representative, lone hope and future King, to break free of them - a serious miscalculation. Alternatively, the old toe-rag did it on purpose to speed him to his death taking the Harry-Horcrux with him.

Or he did it for a laugh.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

And when I say the Trace, I mean the Taboo!

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

"Surely in his 80 odd years of hanging at Hogwarts, he spoke to the Ravenclaw ghost?"
He didn't even need to ask her to know about the diadem, all he had to do was to talk to Flitwick.
And I'm talkng about its existence not how it was lost which was something only Ravenclaw's daughter knew.

[anehan]

according to DH its identity wasn't a mystery at all but common knowledge

I had completely forgotten that, but you're right. It is far too common knowledge for Dumbledore not to have been aware of it.

Moreover, it just goes to show how stupid the House insularity is. If Harry had ever been friends with a Ravenclaw (and I don't think his relationship with Luna is friendship, no matter what Luna thinks), he'd probably had heard about the diadem.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

Dumbledore's sense and intelligence had to be sacrificed just so that JKR could have her foreshadowing of the didadem in HBP (the sectumsempra chapter).
If Harry had hidden the prince's book somewhere else other than the RoR, he could have learnt about the diadem in book 6.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

* Harry has forgotten Ron's fear of spiders.

Harry "I forgot" Potter, ladies and gentlemen. We may assume Ron is his other soulmate.

* Of course the know-it-all has to make an issue of the Erumpent horn, as if she could afford to alienate Mr Lovegood.

In all fairness I'd kick up a fuss too if my host had strung the Christmas tree with hand grenades, insisting they were decorative fossil avocados.

* Ah, let's bludgeon us with the fact that Xenophilius Lovegood is eccentric Wrackspurts, Gurdyroots. Plimpsies. What else? It's really getting very tiresome.

I guess it depends on where the author was going with all this. If she's harping on his weird ways in order to depict him as a lovable kook like Luna, she failed miserably. However, it's always possible that she meant him to come across as a disturbing whackjob who's messed up his daughter and is capable of any crazy shit up to and including human sacrifices by the light of the full moon. In which case, congratulations.

[anehan]

Harry "I forgot" Potter, ladies and gentlemen.

He does seem to have a particularly leaky memory.

However, it's always possible that she meant him to come across as a disturbing whackjob who's messed up his daughter and is capable of any crazy shit up to and including human sacrifices by the light of the full moon.

If only I could have that much faith in Rowling.

first real comment

[tevye-cat.livejournal.com]

Gags with you at the lack of tribute to Snape. Although I remain firmly convinced the sneaky git's alive. There was no body, no mention of a portrait, nothing.

Harry's enlarging the spiders seemed so cruel to me. It could be a subconscious thing, but still. This is the same boy who sent his pet to peck his friends and was satisfied to see the cuts on their hands, after all.

Also, this is stupid, but Hermione knows what kind of wood Harry's wand is made of on sight, but she doesn't know what a rook is?

Re: first real comment

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

If it wasn't for the interviews I'd put Snape in the Merlin position, grave unknown, story circulated, but still viable to return at a later date.

Re: first real comment

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Why on EARTH would Snape want to return? The British Wizarding World was all up Harry's fundament after the Battle of Hogwarts. Then he became Head Auror. No doubt the Encyclopedia will reveal that despite his initial modest denials, Harry Potter became Minister of Magic at the age of 45. At 50, he'll go all Julio-Claudian on them and declare himself a God. Instead of 'Thank Merlin', law will dictate that people say 'Thank Potter'.

Snape should stay away, keeping the fact that he's cracked that old alchemy chestnut and can turn base metal into gold with him. Enjoy your retirement on your private caribbean island Severus!

Re: first real comment

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

My scenario's a little different. Harry goes on to be Head Auror and things fall apart. They need Snape. And he'll make them pay dearly for being such blind sheep but they'll learn their lesson. The WW will be a better place and Harry will take up the position he always would have had if his parents had lived - he'll be just another Ministry drone or, if the combined Potter and Black fortunes are large enough, he'll be sidelined in his manor sitting firmly on his laurels where he can't get anyone into trouble or killed.

Re: first real comment

[anehan]

Poor Snape. Dumbledore really fucked him over. He risked his life on a regular basis for the Cause, and not content with that, Dumbledore forced him to kill him. And in the end, no one but Harry Potter knows that he is innocent of that murder, so he is forced to be beholden to Harry for any recognition he may get.

Harry's enlarging the spiders seemed so cruel to me.

Yeah. It's so thoughtless.

Re: first real comment

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Dumbledore wasn't the only one who fucked him over. And that's just in canon...

[anehan]

The hope lives! (I don't count the interviews as canon.)

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Particularly since the silly author can't stick to any one story for a week straight.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Or since, if these books are read 100 years from now, no one's going to be going back to the interviews to see what they were supposed to think.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

And just imagine the lucky author who gets to be first in line to publish a Sherlock Holmes "resurrection" for Severus Snape once JKR's copyright expires!

Heh. Makes me fervently wish to be reincarnated.