Deathly Hallows Chapter 15

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

The Goblin's Revenge

This chapter starts promisingly enough with Harry burying Moody’s eye at the base of a tree. It’s such a respectful thing to do that I can’t help feeling that Voldemort is influencing Harry through the locket Horcrux.

When he gets back to the tent, the Trio holds a strategy session about moving camp. Ron’s contribution to the discussion? I wants me a bacon sandwich!

They Apparate to near a town and Harry sneaks into town using the Invisibility Cloak. But, his jolly adventure to shoplift food is interrupted by Dementors descending on the town like a cloud of locusts.

Harry is unable to produce a Patronus, which causes a lot of head-scratching among the Trio until Hermione figures out that it’s the locket’s evil influence that has weakened Harry. To which Dolores Umbridge smugly points out that she wore the locket for months and still managed a very decent Patronus, thank you very much.

Now we get the argument about storing the locket in the tent, instead of getting dragged down by its evilness, but Harry nixes that idea. It would be terrible if the locket were to be stolen! Exactly, Harry. Which is why you ought to destroy it asap. Which is why you were an idiot to turn away the D.A. expert who volunteered to help you—no strings attached.

They take some eggs and bread from a farm (apparently the farmers keep their bread out in the chicken coop) and Hermione worries about the morality of taking it, even though they left money in exchange. So, Hermione, the witch who kidnapped and blackmailed a journalist, tricked school kids into signing a cursed document, and lured a Headmistress out to be gang-banged by centaurs is worried about stealing eggs and bread. Pardon me while I laugh uncontrollably.

There follows a period of time in which the Trio may or may not get three meals a day, depending on their luck in scavenging or stealing. The narrator cannot resist ranking them in their ability to endure this trial by hunger. Harry gets an “O” on his hunger O.W.L., thanks to the Dursley’s feast or famine training. Hermione manages an “E” by maintaining dour silences. Ron, of course, rates an “D” at best.

The narrator faults Ron for not contributing any ideas to either finding new Horcruxes or destroying the one that they have. But then it admits that Harry and Hermione don’t have ideas either. So, actually, Ron is the only one with the sense to stop chatting over the same points again and again.

They recite a list of places they know Voldemort has been, forgetting that he’s about seventy years old and was probably in a lot of places they don’t know about. Hmm. You know what would come in really handy here? A spy familiar with Voldemort’s history and habits. Too bad they don’t have one of those.

But even so, Hermione knows enough about Voldemort to say that his snake Nagini is usually with him. How the hell she knows that is beyond me, unless she was reading all the minutes from the Order meetings.

Harry points out that Borgin and Burkes is unlikely to have a Horcrux, since they are Dark Arts experts and would recognize a Horcrux if they saw it. Hmm. You know what would come in handy in this hunt for random Horcruxes? A Dark Arts expert. Too bad they don’t have one of those hanging around.

When Ron pooh-poohs Harry conviction that Voldemort hid a Horcrux at Hogwarts, Harry is sorely tempted to throttle Ron with the chain of the locket. Don’t you just love how the Trio are such BFFs?

Harry knows that Voldemort didn’t hide a Horcrux in the Orphanage (which no longer exists anyway), because it was too dreary and shabby a place. It lacked the grandeur of a spot for Voldemort’s soul bits. I have trouble with that theory because we know Voldemort hid one of his Horcruxes in a shack.

Also, he basically chucked one of them in the school dustbin. And he gave one to Lucius Malfoy to give to his kid. So, I’m not buying Harry’s theory about grand resting places.

Hehe. But JKR places a clue by mentioning the grand places of the Wizarding World are 1) Hogwarts, 2) The Ministry of Magic, and 3) Gringott’s. Note that Voldemort hid Horcuxes in two of those three places. Apparently even Voldemort hates the Ministry.

Of course, Harry has pretty limited experience of the Wizarding World. If he had asked Hermione, who has undoubtably read The Wizard's Travel Guide to Britain, he might have learned about such grand places as The Celestina Warbeck Opera House, Merlin's Museum of Ancient Artifacts, and the Wizard World's Largest Ball of Twine.

The Trio continues to travel, moving to a new location every day. Harry’s scar prickles—most often when he wears the locket. Aha! Evidence that the locket does intensify the connection! All Harry sees is Voldemort thinking about the Thief from the preceeding chapter.

Which makes a nice parellel, doesn’t it. While Harry is obsessing about Dumbledore, Voldemort is obsessing about Grindelwald. It’s like they’re made for each other.

After several weeks of this aimless wandering, Harry notices that Ron and Hermione are having furtive conversations that stop whenever he gets close enough to hear them. So, basically, the Trio has taken a break from the book to do a season of Survivor. It's a pity they don't have Jeff Probst around. I would enjoy having him ask Harry snarky questions.

During this period they seem to be eating mostly fish and mushrooms that Hermione identifies as edible. I hope she packed a field guide to mushrooms in her bag. Come of think of it, she probably did. In lieu of packing actual food.

An argument about food and how Ron doesn’t do anything is mercifully interrupted by a group of five men approaching the glade where the tent is pitched. These are two goblins (Griphook and Gornuk), Dean Thomas, Ted Tonks, and… Dirk Cresswell!

It’s a bit difficult to visual what’s going on, but I think what happens is that the Trio stays inside the tent and the group of five doesn’t see them because of the wards Hermione set up (which, we are told, contain a disillusionment charm). Therefore, the Trio can hear the men speaking through the extendable ears Hermione packed, but see only shadows cast on the tent wall.

Harry recognizes Ted Tonks by his mellow voice. The process is interesting, as Ted’s voice conjures up an image of Ted to Harry, but he doesn’t actually connect the image of Ted to Ted until someone uses the name. Poor Harry. It must be really embarrassing to forget the name of someone who saved your life. In Harry’s defense, Ted is only one of dozens of people who have done that and shouldn’t expect to be remembered.

Ted’s voice is described as mellow, which is a fine character trait, but it sort of takes away from the angst of the fugitive group. That, and the fact that they have just dined on salmon. It makes their desperate flight seem like a camping trip—a much jollier camping trip than the one the Trio is currently on.

I realize that we’re only seeing this group because they stumbled into the Trio’s proximity, but it brings up all sorts of questions to me. Are the woods now crawling with fugitive Muggle-Borns? Why are these people tramping through Britain’s finite wilderness and not simply leaving the country? I know England’s an isle, but one with airports, ports, and the Chunnel. There’s no possible way for the Death Eaters to guard all these points.

Also, this is a world where people can snap their fingers and instantly transport from one place to another. And they have flying brooms. And invisible flying horses.

Couldn’t that large herd of Thestrals be employed to fly Muggle-Borns to safety? Wouldn’t that be a better use of Hagrid’s time than throwing “I Love Harry” parties?

The goblins drop the interesting tidbit that Severus Snape put a fake copy of Gryffindor’s sword into Bellatrix Lestrange’s bank vault in Gringott’s. This is interesting to the Trio because of Dumbledore’s bequest. It’s interesting to me for a couple reasons. One: Severus Snape doesn’t have his own bank vault. I wonder where he keeps his money, or if he has any at all. Two: Even on the run, the most engaging topic these fugitives can find to talk about is what’s going on at Hogwarts.

Snape put that sword in the bank vault after Ginny, Neville, and Luna tried to steal it. We’re never told why they tried to steal it, or what they planned to do with it. I wonder. Would stealing something be considered fulfilling the requirement for chivalary?

And, although credit for this observation belongs to Mike Smith, I will note that the “Goblin’s Revenge” consists of not informing Snape that the sword is fake. As revenge schemes go, that’s pretty darn lame.

A question of whether Harry or Snape killed Dumbledore comes up and Dean affirms his belief that Harry is indeed the Chosen One. I wonder what it is that gives Dean that belief. From his perspective, Harry’s that arrogant jerk Quidditch captain that barely let Dean play on the team and then stole his girl.

Dirk argues that if Harry were any kind of a hero, he’d be out there fighting, rallying resistance, instead of hiding. Heh. Dirk never studied history either, or he’d realize that real heroes, like Dumbledore, wait at least five years before engaging the enemy.

Ted suggests that Dirk should be reading the Quibbler for the truth, and, to bolster his argument, notes that the last issue had zero mentions of Crumble-Horned Snorkacks. That must be the standard for truth in the Wizarding World. As long as you don’t mention odd creatures that may or may not exist, you’re golden.

Having conveniently dropped all that information, the group conveniently moves up the slope and out of earshot, allowing the Trio to discuss it.

Hermione pulls out the portrait of Phineas Nigellus out of her purse and magically blindfolds the former headmaster when he appears in the frame. There is an exchange of information. The Trio learns that Ginny and the others were punished by working with Hagrid in the Forbidden Forest, and that the sword can be used to destroy Horcruxes. Nigellus learns that the Trio is together in an undisclosed location.

Then, when Nigellus returns to his regular portait with the blindfold still on, Snape will learn that he’s with the Trio. So, it’s good all round.

Harry and Hermione eagerly discuss this news. Harry is cheered when Hermione points out that Dumbledore didn’t trust Snape enough to tell him he switched a fake sword for the real one. Which shouldn’t really cheer Harry at all, since he’s had enough experience of Dumbledore not trusting people he says he trusts to realize that Dumbledore not trusting Snape with something is actually meaningless.

Now we get the moment when Ron revolts. By revolting, I mean that he says all the things that Harry fears and that the reader is thinking. That this quest is the worst quest ever and that, as we all feared at the end of HBP, that Harry is woefully unprepared to find the Horcruxes and that Dumbledore never bothered to give him the slightest instruction in how to destroy them if he did.

Is this a metaphor for the reader? After all, we came into this book believing--trusting--that JKR had a plan. We were told long ago that there would be seven books in the series. We were promised that all these dangling plots and characters and plot holes would make sense in the end. And yet, reading this book that seems to have been made up as she stumbled through it, we're as lost as Harry and Ron.

Also, Ron is worried about his family, which Harry can’t relate to since his family is dead. So, when Ron brings that up, Harry sneers at him for being soft and lazy.

It occurs to me, perhaps because I want to think better of Ron than he’s portrayed here, that there is a disconnect between him and Harry. This is the first time that Ron’s really yelled at Harry, who takes this to heart, feels a “corrosive hatred” toward Ron and thinks that something has broken between them. But… yelling at people is normal in the Weasley household. They yell all the time at each other, and they throw knives and parsnips at each other on very little provocation. That Harry has never experienced that is probably due to their feeling sorry for him and treating him like an emotional invalid.

However, Harry’s experience with yelling and such is based on his family, where such behavior doesn’t signal concern and love, but hatred and cruel indifference. Therefore, he thinks that Ron’s temper tantrum is more serious than it turns out to be.

In any case, Harry and Ron nearly come to blows, er, spells, and only Hermione’s Protego spell keeps them apart. Harry invites Ron to leave and Ron runs out of the tent and out of the story for the next three and half chapters.

Come back, Ron! Come back! Come back and take us with you!



Fan Service:
We finally get a taste of Dean’s extensive backstory.
Griphook the gobin makes his triumphant return to the saga.

Fan Slappage:
Ron? You liked Ron? Behold as he turns petty and evil!
A plan? You thought there was a plan? Joke's on you!

DVD Extras:
INT: DAY – GRINGOTT'S BANK VAULT

We are interior of Bellatrix Lestrange’s bank vault. The door creaks open and Severus Snape is led into the treasure trove by the goblin, GRIPHOOK. Snape, cloaked and gloved, carries a gleaming sword with rubies in the hilt.

GRIPHOOK
(smirking)
And here is the vault.

Snape places his lighted wand in a sconce. It illuminates the cave-like area. Snape turns to the goblin.

SNAPE
Leave me.

GRIPHOOK
Mrs. Lestrange’s letter said nothing about letting you alone in the vault—

SNAPE
Do you want me to complain about your behavior to my master? Begone!

Griphook gives him a nasty look, then, as the goblin’s gaze falls on the sword, the look turns to a smirk. He leaves and shuts the door behind him. A burst of goblin cackling comes from the closed door.

Snape whirls around, keenly aware of the goblin’s ridicule. But, since the door remains closed, he relaxes and looks around for a place to put the sword.

Seeing a spot on a high shelf, he sets the sword upon it. As he steps back to admire the placement, his attention is caught by a small golden cup on an even higher shelf.

CLOSE ON

The golden cup, with a small badger embossed on its side, There is something oddly malevolent about it.

Snape’s eyes narrow at he studies it.

The cup vibrates, almost like a shiver is running through it. Then, suddenly, a spray of yellow liquid shoots out the top of it, spilling down onto the shelf.

Snape frowns, and then his eyes light up with understanding. He takes his wand in one gloved hand and reaches out with the other.

SNAPE
Accio!

Comments

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

So, Hermione, the witch who kidnapped and blackmailed a journalist, tricked school kids into signing a cursed document, and lured a Headmistress out to be gang-banged by centaurs is worried about stealing eggs and bread. Pardon me while I laugh uncontrollably.
Ah, but the Ten Commandments only forbid stealing! Kidnapping, blackmailing, cursing and gang-raping are not mentioned and thus of minor importance!

After several weeks of this aimless wandering, Harry notices that Ron and Hermione are having furtive conversations that stop whenever he gets close enough to hear them.
The weird thing is - given the intense (cough) romantic involvement of those two, you'd think there'd be quite a lot of furtive interaction that's bound to stop whenever Harry gets close, but naturally this idea never enters Harry's head (nor his author's).

I know England’s an isle
But --- but England is the only civilized country in the world! Don't you remember the way the Durmstrang students eyed the cups and plates? And wore furs? The only halfway decent place is France where English people go for holidays but then, you know, there are the French! Better not got there...

Wouldn’t that be a better use of Hagrid’s time than throwing “I Love Harry” parties?
Who said Hagrid cared about Muggleborns?

We’re never told why they tried to steal it
Ah yes, another case of where she was on the brink of writing something that made sense, but then didn't. Stealing that sword would have made sense IF they had had the faintest idea what it was or what it could be used for or at least that Harry had inherited it under Dumbeldore's will. As it is, it comes off as the three of them being idiotic busybodies desperate to play the heroes. With HBP Ginny still preying on my mind I couldn't help but envisioning her doing it as another shot at being the spunky heroine worthy of her master (like idiotically flying into Zacharias during that Quidditch game).

From his perspective, Harry’s that arrogant jerk Quidditch captain that barely let Dean play on the team and then stole his girl.
Well, that's why. The big hero gets the girl; he got her, so he has to be it!

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

The weird thing is - given the intense (cough) romantic involvement of those two, you'd think there'd be quite a lot of furtive interaction that's bound to stop whenever Harry gets close, but naturally this idea never enters Harry's head (nor his author's).

What's weirder still is that there doesn't seem to be any romantic involvement when Ron and Hermione have the opportunity to canoodle. It's only when they are separated that Hermione seems to care about Ron at all. And Ron's main take on everything is that Hermione likes Harry better.

And yet... they're still a better couple than Lupin and Tonks. Go figure.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

*"I hope she packed a field guide to mushrooms in her bag"
Should there even be mushrooms to be found in a (muggle) forest in the middle of an english winter?
*"we're never told why they (Neville luna and Ginny) tried to steal it, or what they planed to do with it"
Well actually I think there's a plausible explanation for that. Remember Harry's birthday party where everyone was examining the objects that Dumbledore left for the trio and talked about Schimagour's (sp?) refusal to give the sword to Harry? well Ginny was there.
*LMAO at the "Survivor" comment.
*"So Hermione the witch who kidnapped and blackmailed..." not to mentioned what she to her parents.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Should there even be mushrooms to be found in a (muggle) forest in the middle of an english winter?

I wondered about that. And, also, if salmon would actually be in rivers during the late fall/early winter. The time line at this point is uncertain. We know that it's some weeks after September 1st (when the Ministry fiasco took place) and some weeks before Christmas (when Harry and Hermione will visit Godric's Hollow).

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Harry's big moments of caring for others come when he buries them. But he does it twice and it's already over-played.

The locket could just as easily get stolen from around Harry's neck, of course.

So, Hermione, the witch who kidnapped and blackmailed a journalist, tricked school kids into signing a cursed document, and lured a Headmistress out to be gang-banged by centaurs is worried about stealing eggs and bread.

That's IC. Remember when she didn't want to take out a DE because his head was a baby? When Hermione cares about rules, it's to remind us how silly they are. Btw, it's great the way school's taught them to turn the eggs into pincushions but not to make more of them. Honestly, whatever marks they get, Muggles would do better.

Hehe. But JKR places a clue by mentioning the grand places of the Wizarding World are 1) Hogwarts, 2) The Ministry of Magic, and 3) Gringott’s.

They certainly put regular Britain to shame when it comes to grand places. A boarding school, an office building and a bank.

Which makes a nice parellel, doesn’t it. While Harry is obsessing about Dumbledore, Voldemort is obsessing about Grindelwald. It’s like they’re made for each other.

Yup, leave them alone and they start desperately looking for interesting backstory in the minor characters instead of coming up with a plan for what they're supposed to be doing.

Therefore, the Trio can hear the men speaking through the extendable ears Hermione packed, but see only shadows cast on the tent wall.

Basically, people they know conveniently show up on TV to tell them what's going on.

I realize that we’re only seeing this group because they stumbled into the Trio’s proximity, but it brings up all sorts of questions to me. Are the woods now crawling with fugitive Muggle-Borns?

Sure. It's not like they'd think of using their superior Muggle knowledge or connections. Even if death is the alternative, that would be humiliating for wizards. If they remember they're muggles, the terrorists win.

Wouldn’t that be a better use of Hagrid’s time than throwing “I Love Harry” parties?

Honestly? Of course not! Everything rests on Harry! That would be like thinking it made more sense to form a resistance movement with allies in different races rather than tell Harry you believe in him.

Would stealing something be considered fulfilling the requirement for chivalary?

I'm sure. It was, from their pov, just a stupid, dangerous gesture and therefore the perfect statement that Gryffindor was alive and well in this time of alleged Slytherin ascendency.

I wonder what it is that gives Dean that belief.

Being a good soul. Better than Ron.

That Harry has never experienced that is probably due to their feeling sorry for him and treating him like an emotional invalid.

Ron and Percy are the only two who really see him as an equal, imo.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Harry's big moments of caring for others come when he buries them. But he does it twice and it's already over-played.

True. I don't mind him burying Moody's eye. It's short and a nice detail. But that does detract from later on, when he buries Dobby because he already made that gesture.

But I'll get there, and I'm sure I'll be snarky, because the moment didn't even impress me the first time I read it.

When Hermione cares about rules, it's to remind us how silly they are.

This is very true, isn't it? I don't think there's one time that Hermione is actually right about the importance of rules. Yet she's right about everything else. The closest she ever came to being right was when she told McGonagall about Harry receiving the firebolt. Even then, she was wrong, but it wasn't a stupid thing to worry about.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

Hehe. But JKR places a clue by mentioning the grand places of the Wizarding World are 1) Hogwarts, 2) The Ministry of Magic, and 3) Gringott’s.

They certainly put regular Britain to shame when it comes to grand places. A boarding school, an office building and a bank.

***Well, Muggle banks can look pretty impressive too. Boarding schools and office buildings on the other hand...

Which makes a nice parellel, doesn’t it. While Harry is obsessing about Dumbledore, Voldemort is obsessing about Grindelwald. It’s like they’re made for each other.


Yup, leave them alone and they start desperately looking for interesting backstory in the minor characters instead of coming up with a plan for what they're supposed to be doing.

***Just like the readers they realise that keeping under our Jo's radar as a minor character is the only way to remain an interesting person with a functioning brain. And some dignity.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Well, Muggle banks can look pretty impressive too. Boarding schools and office buildings on the other hand...

Some boarding schools are impressive - look at Kylemore Abbey, Ireland. http://www.sleepzone.ie/_fileUpload/Image/Kylemore_Abbey_1_-__Robert_Bates.JPG

And so are lots of skyscrapers etc.

[parenthesised.livejournal.com]

While Harry is obsessing about Dumbledore, Voldemort is obsessing about Grindelwald. It’s like they’re made for each other.

"Tell me Potter, would you describe yourself and the Dark Lord as "star-crossed"?"



It occurs to me, perhaps because I want to think better of Ron than he’s portrayed here, that there is a disconnect between him and Harry. This is the first time that Ron’s really yelled at Harry, who takes this to heart, feels a “corrosive hatred” toward Ron and thinks that something has broken between them. But… yelling at people is normal in the Weasley household. They yell all the time at each other, and they throw knives and parsnips at each other on very little provocation. That Harry has never experienced that is probably due to their feeling sorry for him and treating him like an emotional invalid.

You know - that's a really good point. And clearly what you do in a large household if you've had a row is make yourself as scarce as possibile. I "ran away" to friends & family so often as a teenager

(yes, I don't really have anything to add. I just wanted to throw in the star-crossed quote but thought it would look pathetic alone... sorry...)

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Nah. It was funny enough to stand on its own.

But thanks for rest of it. My family wasn't that large, but what you say about making yourself scarce sounds very right.

[parenthesised.livejournal.com]

In which case, my coments on all aspects will probbly diverge into Quality of Mercy quotes. Because I can, and because I've decided that it is actually the real book seven...

Mine wasn't Weasley large, by any means, but even two brothers can be two too many when the raised voices start to fly! ;)

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

--- “So, Hermione, the witch who kidnapped and blackmailed a journalist, tricked school kids into signing a cursed document, and lured a Headmistress out to be gang-banged by centaurs is worried about stealing eggs and bread.”

Don’t be so mean - at least she treats her parents with respect!

--- “There follows a period of time in which the Trio may or may not get three meals a day, depending on their luck in scavenging or stealing.”

Call a f***ing House Elf, you f***ing idiots. For f***’s sake!! This isn’t a dramatic or tense situation. It’s the weak author forcing her protagonists to act in an unbelievable way to drive the ‘story’, instead of writing a story that fits in with established behaviour and basic common sense/intelligence. They can die and rot for all I care. F***ers. Except Ron, who’s going to do the clever thing in 3, 2, 1.....

--- “Hermione knows enough about Voldemort to say that his snake Nagini is usually with him. How the hell she knows that is beyond me, unless she was reading all the minutes from the Order meetings.”

Because JKR wants us to know, and always uses Hermione to pass on knowledge - she's the intelligent one. JKR could have got Harry to say that Dumbles had said that Nagini might be the most difficult Horcrux, as he understood they were rarely parted. But that would have indicated that 1. Dumbles passed on information, and 2. Harry listened (or understood).

--- “After several weeks of this aimless wandering, Harry notices that Ron and Hermione are having furtive conversations that stop whenever he gets close enough to hear them.”

Maybe they're just talking dirty?

--- “Also, this is a world where people can snap their fingers and instantly transport from one place to another. And they have flying brooms.”

I know port-keys are traceable, so can’t be used by the Trio. But for everyone else, if the destination is abroad, exactly what would the DEs do? While Europe seems unconcerned with the changes in UK government, I presume they don’t have a muggle extradition treaty with Thicknesse.

--- “he’d realize that real heroes, like Dumbledore, wait at least five years before engaging the enemy.”

The thing is, Grindlewald had the Elder Wand, so it made sense that Dumbles didn’t rush into sneaking up on him from behind so that he could hex him in the back, or however he overpowered him - why did JKR not emphasize this? Does she *want* us to think he’s a lazy git who didn’t care about the people who died every year?

--- “Hermione pulls out the portrait of Phineas Nigellus out of her purse and magically blindfolds the former headmaster when he appears in the frame.”

I don’t remember this. I’m sorry, but if you can magically blindfold a portrait, you can magically gag one. It’s a shame no-one thought of that, when Mrs Black was being tiresome in OotP. Why not make them just go in the tent before talking to him? I presume it's their location that they want to keep quiet? JKR really doesn’t have the slightest grip on her world and what is and isn’t possible in it.

--- “That Harry has never experienced that is probably due to their feeling sorry for him and treating him like an emotional invalid.”

Exactly – Harry remains a guest in the Weasley household. Mrs Weasley always screams at her children, but is nice to him and Hermione (except in GoF). She saw less of Hermione, but Harry, while in some ways treated like a member of the family, never really integrated.

I still blame Ron the least for this poorly manufactured piece of angst. Harry wasn’t wearing the Horcrux, he knew Ron was and Hermione *pointed out* that Ron was being affected. He didn’t blame Ginny for the events in CoS, but now he blames Ron in a similar situation? He just hates someone being honest with him - STILL petulant and reckless. Hermione quietly asked Ron to take off the Horcrux instead of striding over to do it herself. She could use a Protego, but not Petrificus Totalis, a leg binding spell, or silencio? What a lot of b*ll*cks.

Ron saw light at the end of the tunnel and sensibly escaped. My only beef with him is that the git abandoned me in the tent with his hideous unfunny friends. Nagini can’t come soon enough.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

JKR really doesn’t have the slightest grip on her world and what is and isn’t possible in it.
***Or she lost it over the series. On the other hand she had her characters in an iron grip, making them OOC, and that's quite a feat for an author.

You spent twenty years in your world and with your characters, Mrs Murray, how the hell could you mess uo it and them so badly?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

But for everyone else, if the destination is abroad, exactly what would the DEs do? While Europe seems unconcerned with the changes in UK government, I presume they don’t have a muggle extradition treaty with Thicknesse.

Exactly. There were very good reasons why the Jews (and other victims of the Nazis) couldn't jump the borders and run away--yet anyone who could, did. But there is no logical reason why a Wizard wouldn't be able to use one of the many forms of Muggle transportation to leave England.

Even if they didn't want to associate with the French, they could always continue on to Australia or the U.S. or Canada. Places where people speak English.

Does she *want* us to think [Dumbledore's] a lazy git who didn’t care about the people who died every year?

Honestly, I have no idea why that five year waiting period was there. I'll look for it, but I don't remember there ever being any explanation beyond Dumbledore being afraid that he might have killed Ariana. But why that would stop him... the character motivation... it burnsssss!

I’m sorry, but if you can magically blindfold a portrait, you can magically gag one.

Bwahahaha! And Sirius suffered for a year of this because he couldn't remember the spell Shuttem Upus.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

That's a pretty good theory. The part about Ariana being the baby in the station is really good.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

this theory is cause for standing ovations. I'm ready to swear this was NEVER ever what the author had in mind but I don't care. It's brilliant and I love it - not just where Gellert is concerned but also Dumble's attitude towards his brother. Just - wow.

[cheshyre]

Hermione, the witch who kidnapped and blackmailed a journalist, tricked school kids into signing a cursed document, and lured a Headmistress out to be gang-banged by centaurs is worried about stealing eggs and bread. Pardon me while I laugh uncontrollably.

Not to mention memory-charming her parents...

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Not to mention stealing supplies from a teacher in her second year.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

You forgot going behind the school's back to attempt to liberate the house-elves.

Just realised something interesting:

- Harry never associated his abuse at the hands of the Dursleys with his abandonment by Dumbledore

- Hermione never associated the house-elves enslavement at Hogwarts with Dumbledore's being Headmaster

- Ron never felt bitter about his father's lack of career advancement despite his family's extreme closeness to Dumbledore

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

And I love that theory! It makes a great deal of creepy sense (and it's also part of the reason why I, as a practicing Christian, find these books so very offensive.)

God is not a puppetmaster. Dumbledore is. Therefore, Dumbledore is not God. QED.

"Logic. What do they teach them in these schools?" (the professor, in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, quoting from memory)

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Mary J: And I love that theory!
(that theory, by marionros) ...God is twinkly-eyed mysterious in his ways and ineffable and all that sh*t, and where Harry Potter, Hagrid, Lupin, Hermione and the Weasleys are all Job and their worthiness is measured in how much they continue to believe in Dumbledore.

It does come off that way, doesn't it, whether Rowling meant it to or not. It's creepy in a cult-ish sort of way where cult members must show complete trust in and allegiance to the leader.

(and it's also part of the reason why I, as a practicing Christian, find these books so very offensive.)

Another reason may or may not be that the heroes, "God's side" if you're looking at it from a religious metaphor standpoint, get away with blatantly breaking the rules, ignoring a teacher in his own class and laughing about it, stealing from a teacher, scarring someone for life, sending an adversary to the centaurs, mind-wiping one's own parents, using curses which have been identified as automatically Unforgivable, etc., etc., and all without Divine, narrative or authorial censure.

Someone ages back mentioned antinomianism and I've been beating that drum ever since I looked it up. I don't know of any Christian who thinks he or she can get away with sinning because they (think they) are Chosen. The books seem to suggest that such a thing is possible and even desirable in the Potterverse. Offensive, IMO, whether a person is Christian or not because it implies a privileged class that doesn't have to answer to either temporal or Divine law and, further, for me, implies a Deity I don't want to get to know.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

...and yet, David is 'Beloved to God'.

His faults are also explicitly spelled out in the Bible and said to grieve God. The various wars fought while David was king ensured that he would not have the privilege of ruling in peace - that was left to his son Solomon. Those wars were more like the sorts of wars necessarily fought in order to gain a peaceful kingdom by driving out the former inhabitants or killing them off so they weren't any fault of David's. Yet he was penalized for presiding over them, IIRC.

And yeah, I could be wrong. It's been a very long time.

B.C. Divinities could get away with having favorites because they're divine. That God overlooks David's peccadillos and outright sins because he loves David so much is also mentioned, but God disciplines David. David could have had much more, witness Solomon's gaining of wisdom.

This version of the Divine is far removed from an indulgent headmaster who is supposed to be impartial toward all students at his school. Dumbledore gives Harry an Invisibility Cloak and smiles benignly as Harry endangers himself and his friends and the mission of keeping the stone away from Voldemort's agent. Dumbledore measures everyone by their loyalty to Harry even before he knows and begins to like Harry. The entire school revolves around Dumbledore's latest obsession, Harry Potter, so you get teachers who endanger other students - Lupin with his passive/aggressive response to Snape's potion, Crouch!Moody who bounces ferrety Slytherins, Lockhart and Slughorn who outright fan-worship Harry, Quirrell who was hiding Voldy under his turban through most of the first book.

Dumbledore is human, not divine. He indulges in the dream of ruling over Muggles with his friend. His sister dies because of his obsession. God is never represented as being fallible. Dumbledore is more of a failed saviour figure than a God. He's more of the Samuel figure who identifies and anoints the Chosen.

Rowling is the Divinity of the Potterverse but her extreme preference for Harry is never overtly revealed as God's toward David was. The Gospel of Harry Potter actually is written by Deity instead of being written by fallible prophets and chroniclers who, in other settings, have pointed out Divine preference. If Rowling views Marietta's "betrayal" as bad, even though she is merely betraying a boy from school and not her mother (and you wonder if Rowling would see it quite the same way if her daughter smuggled out the final drafts of any Potter book just to get or stay on the good side of a school friend) then it is bad. Never mind that Marietta was never told that Harry was "The Chosen One."

I agree that Rowling uses the form of religion for her ultimate tribute to her own creation without understanding what she is doing or what she has done.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

This version of the Divine is far removed from an indulgent headmaster who is supposed to be impartial toward all students at his school.

Doncha just hate not making your point?

God's favorites always, always worked for the good of the Chosen People. Rowling's universe is the opposite - the people work for the good of the Chosen One. Dumbledore should never have favored Harry over the safety of the other students in his care but he did.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Oh, foo. I don't think the Weasleys did anything more than admire Albus from afar, until they took charge of Harry, that is. Albus hadn't any time for them whatsoever, until they did that. The Prewett brothers, yes. But not the Weasleys.

Admiring Albus from afar is easy. You could go through his school for 7 years and never have occasion to speak to the man.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

But even then, we see how he allowed the Prewetts' sister struggle through poverty, even after Gideon and Fabian had laid down their lives for the Order.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

And when he finally did pay attention to the Weasleys because of their connection to Harry, they rolled over, submissively peed a little, and begged him to rub their stomachs. It's amazing how, in this world, people just roll over for any old leader type and thank their stars for scraps.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

And non of the "good guys" ever associated the continuous alienation and isolation of the Slytherin house from the other houses with Dumbledore's refusal to even try to improve the situation or to reach out to the Slytherin children.
Oh but he wants to have "peace harmony and unity" among the four houses. Like the slob who wants to be fit and slim but won't do any exercise or give away his junk food, Dumbledore want to achieve "house harmony" without having to lift a finger.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

It's more like he wants to have house unity and harmony by forcing the other houses to recognize the supposedly inherent superiority of Gryffindor. Slytherin actively doesn't so Slytherin is bad.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

They constantly try to set themselves up as the underdogs, even though there's a Gryffindor Headmaster, a Gryffindor Vice-Headmistress, a Gryffindor Head Boy (the only HB mentioned), a Gryffindor Quidditch commentator for every game... but no, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw are totally their equals.

[cheshyre]

And this is the character JKR thought was most like her?

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

That would explain a LOT, wouldn't it?

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

You're so right! In fact, the story could have been about:-

1. Arthur working at the Ministry - the heart of the enemy. Who could he trust? What horrors did he see every day? Did Umbridge make his life extra difficult because of who he was? (Because Voldemort sure didn't bother.)

2. The Twins - trying to run a business when so many people in Diagon Alley had given up. Their lack of respect for the Dark Lord as telling and in its own way dangerous, as outright opposition. How many times was their shop attacked? How many times were *they* attacked? How much time was spent adapting their products to be used in the inevitable Final Battle (Yeah, right!)Their nagging guilt over the events at the end of Book 6 driving them on.

3. Molly - Arthur's problems, plus 6 sons of age and in the thick of the action in some way. Her youngest, underage daughter at school with Death Eaters. Isolated at home, but she was constantly in contact with the outside world, unlike the Trio. She was living a mother's nightmare and was *entitled* to brood and panic endlessly, unlike b*stard Harry and his pointless whining over Dumbles, rather than Snape or Voldemort.

4. Remus and Tonks - Even if you don't like the pairing, how much did they squeeze into that last year?

Almost everyone in the book seemed to be having a more eventful time because they were in the thick of the action. JKR carefully hid the Trio away from anything of interest, for long periods of time then wheeled them out for a set piece before hiding them away again. WHY?

I'll repeat myself - the Ministry should have fallen at Xmas and the Trio spent that Autumn term at Hogwarts learning about Horcruxes, with Snape as Headmaster. They could have camped/ had the final battle in January, and the survivors (which *wouldn't* include Harry)could go back to school from late Feb - June, during which we could have learnt about how the Wizarding World rebuilt itself.

The Epilogue was hella-crap, but the worst thing was that it was all we had. If we'd first had a couple of chapters of the action winding down, funerals, trial, memorials etc, then it would be easier to shrug that nonsense off.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I don't we could possibly have had Harry die. Even if JKR had wanted that, it would have caused riots.

But having the Trio come back to Hogwarts would have been fun. There would have been all that seething hatred between Snape and Harry and it would have been more plausible to have Snape cunningly leaving the Horcrux books out than to have Hermione summon them from the Headmaster's office.

[va32h.livejournal.com]

i hate this book so much. i hate this chapter so much. sigh.

the trouble with having characters who can do pretty much anything by magic is that you have to come up with lots of reasons why their magic won't work, or else there's no tension in the story.

this takes effort, though, and clearly jkr does not think we are worth it. the only explanation she even tries to give is this new "can't conjure food' rule, which makes no sense, of course, as we've seen Molly conjure food in every previous book.

oh and apparently this is the chapter where she realized 'crap i've got a lot of info that I forgot to mention previously, so I'll just cram it all in."

the goblin conversation is so staged, so fake - none of the topics rise naturally from the previous one. they might as well come out and say "and another plot point that you need to know about is..."

sorry for the random caps and quotes, my shift keys are stuck!