Deathly Hallows Chapter 32

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

The Elder Wand

This chapter starts with Harry still in shock because Fred is dead. How could people go on fighting? The world has ended… yadda yadda yadda.

I’m not going to cheer because the twins never pissed me off as badly as they’ve pissed off other readers, but I didn’t feel much of anything when Fred died, and, two years later, I still don’t.

You know what happened? I think I outgrew Fred. Weird because I’m in my forties, so you’d think I’d have started these books having outgrown him. But I sort of liked the twins back in PS/SS, when they carried Harry’s trunk onto the train. I liked them working on inventions (even if I didn’t like them testing them on firsties), and I liked them giving Harry the Marauders’ Map, and I liked them gambling all their money on an absurd bet.

So, I did like them. Until they started throwing parsnips at people and stuffing people into unstable magical cupboards. And being war profiteers. And pretty much doing nothing else during the Resistance. I really expected more from them.

Besides. George was always my favorite.

Percy refuses to let go of Fred’s body until giant spiders start crawling through the hole in the wall. Then he helps Harry place the body in a niche. It’s the best they can do for the moment, even though it isn’t a hand-shoveled grave.

Then they run around for a bit and Percy takes off to kill Rookwood, who is chasing after some students. Hermione pulls Ron behind a tapestry and Harry thinks for a moment that they are going to make out again, but she’s just trying to keep Ron from running after Percy.

Because they need to go kill Nagini now.

Harry understands how Ron feels though. He desperately wants to go kill Death Eaters, too. More than that, he wants to find Ginny and make sure that she’s not dead, either.

This is why you don’t keep pushing your girlfriend away during the big battle, Harry. If you’d told her to stay with you, you wouldn’t have to wonder. She’d be right here.

Hermione sobs out that they have to keep fighting by killing the snake. Then she turns to Harry and begs him to use his Voldie-mind powers to look inside Voldemort and see where the snake is.

Is this a deliberate contradiction to Hermione’s earlier stance on Harry’s connection to Voldemort? What the hell. It’s not like Hermione hasn’t reversed herself on elves and unauthorized spells.

So, Harry opens the connection and finds himself… in a familiar room. Which is the Shrieking Shack, but heaven forbid we should allow familiarity to give away information to the reader. Make ‘em guess.

Anyway, Voldemort is quietly gloating over how clever he was to find that room so many years ago and how his diadem must be safe, because no one—not even Dumbledore’s little meat puppet could have ever found it….

Then Voldemort is interrupted by Lucius, who is sitting in ragged clothing in the darkest corner of the room, sporting a black eye he got when Voldemort killed all other Death Eaters earlier in the day. Heh. So, did Lucius run into the door on his way out? That would be pretty funny.

And, let’s be sure to notice—without a wand, Lucius is incapable of dressing himself.

Lucius begs for Draco, but Voldemort tells him he’s SOL if Draco’s dead. Draco was supposed to join up like the “rest of the Slytherins.” If he didn’t, Voldemort suspects he may have befriended Harry. Because Voldemort ships Draco/Harry just like everyone else.

“No—never,” whispers Malfoy, since he’s strictly a Snarry shipper.

So…. that ambiguous phrase “rest of the Slytherins.” Some reader interpret this to mean that all the overage Slytherin students went out to join the Death Eaters. Some interpret it to mean that at least some of the students did. Others have interpreted it to mean that none of them did, and that Voldemort is just a big fat liar.

Lucius tries to suggest that Voldemort call off the battle and look for Potter personally, but Voldemort is confident that Harry will come to him. He’s more troubled about his wand.

He tells Lucius to fetch Snape. Lucius stumbles off on the errand and Voldemort whispers, “It is the only way, Nagini” to the snake, which is now suspended in a glittering transparent cage.

Harry snaps out of the connection and tells Ron and Hermione that Voldemort is in the Shrieking Shack. Hermione gets all pissed off that Voldemort isn’t even fighting.

The Trio starts arguing about who should go kill the snake, and then they get attacked by Death Eaters and Hermione naturally saves them with creative wand work. She turns their staircase into a slide, and, once they’ve slid down through a tapestry, she turns the tapestry into a wall, which the two Death Eaters fly into. So, Hermione gets a couple kills.

The Trio are almost trampled under a herd of stampeding desks. McGonagall is running behind them, crying out “CHARGE!” Very funny image. I notice that McGonagall, like any good Gryffindor, is now sporting a cut on her cheek.

That reminds me. When the wall expoded and killed Fred, Harry was “bleeding copiously” from some wound (probably a gash on his cheek). What happened? When did he stop bleeding? Or has that been going on all this while? Head wounds—even minor ones--tend to keep bleeding if not treated.

Anyway, they all get under the Cloak and they pass by dueling Death Eaters and students. Dean has gotten a wand and is dueling Dolohov. (This time Harry recognizes him.) Before the Trio can curse the Death Eaters, Peeves appears, dropping Snargaluff pods down onto the Death Eaters’ heads.

Naturally, one of the pods lands on Ron, providing some comic relief and yet also alerting the Death Eaters to the presence of invisible people in the room.

The Trio bravely run away and come upon Draco pleading with a Death Eater by claiming to be on his side. Harry stuns the Death Eater, and Ron punches Draco. Once again, Draco straddles that fine line between someone who deserves to be saved and someone who deserves to be punched in the mouth.

More running. More chaos. They pass the hourglass and this time (in contrast to the end of HBP), it’s the Slytherin emeralds spilled over the ground.

Two bodies fall from a balcony, and a grey streak flies across the hall to “sink its teeth into one of the fallen.” The blur is Fenrir Greyback and the fallen is Lavender Brown. Hermione blasts a curse and Greyback is thrown back. As he rises, a crystal ball hits him on the head and he crumples to the ground.

Hmm. Okay, so that sounds to me like Lavender was bitten by Fenrir. Was he human or was he werewolf? I’d guess that he was human, since Harry recognized him.

Professor Trelawney (who bonked Fenrir on the head), starts lobbying crystal balls over the bannisters. Then spiders start coming in again, causing everyone to scream and scatter.

Hagrid pushes past the Trio, trying to save his precious spiders. The precious spiders swarm him and carry him off into the forest.

Harry forgets about the whole Nagini thing and starts running after Hagrid. Maybe Harry suffers from A.D.D.? Or S.P.T. (Saving People Thing)

Harry’s new quest to rescue Hagrid from the spiders is interrupted by a giant Monty Python foot that nearly stomps him. Fortunately, Grawp appears and starts fighting with the giant attached to the foot. Which totally justifies the whole Grawp storyline. I no longer resent having to read through several tedious chapters of inter-tribal giant politics and watching Hagrid tie his little brother to trees.

The Trio runs off towards the forest again, and this time they are stopped by clouds of Dementors. Harry starts giving in to depressing thoughts: Fred is dead, Hagrid is being eaten by spiders, and what’s the use of anything? Ron and Hermione manage feeble Patroni, which soon fade, but Harry can’t get his wand up at all.

Here comes the cavalry! A silver hare, a fox, and a boar soar in to chase away the Dementors. Luna, Seamus, and Ernie come to stand beside them. Luna urges Harry to think of something happy and reminds him that they are still fighting. With that happy thought, Harry casts his stag and vanquishes the Dementors.

Then the giant returns and the Trio are separated from the other lowercase trio and run toward the Whomping Willlow. Harry tries to ignore all the dying and angst around him and focus on what Hermione said about killing the snake. If you don’t have Dumbledore around to tell you what to do, Hermione is the next best thing.

They arrive at the Whomping Willow out of breath, and Ron frets that Crookshanks isn’t around to push the stop button on the tree. “Crookshanks?” Hermione gasps out, “Are you a wizard or what?”

Sigh. See, that sort of shoutout to PS/SS is a lot better in a film than in a book. When you’re watching a film, half the time you don’t really care about logic or continuity or anything. It’s cute and funny--that’s all you need. But in a book, that line is beyond stupid. Why does Hermione have to remind Ron that he’s a wizard? She’s got a wand. Why doesn’t she use her remaining breath to say, “Buttonus Pushus!” and be done with it?

We get a second shout out when Ron uses Wingardium Leviosa to levitate a twig to push the button and OMG I can’t stand the lame right now as I picture an itty-bitty twiggy thingy having enough force to push a bump of bark. Oh, and isn’t it a miracle Ron finally mastered that first year spell?

Harry has a momentary qualm as he wonders if Voldemort is leading him into a trap, but Ron pushes him into the tunnel. The tunnel is now relatively smaller and they must actually crawl through it. How did they manage to float Snape’s upright body through it, four years earlier? This tunnel never really made much sense.

As they approach the end of the tunnel, Harry sees a sliver of light and Hermione reminds him to put on the Cloak. He does this with difficulty and proceeds, half-expecting to hear Voldemort’s voice casting an AK on him. Voldemort seemed a bit preoccupied last time you saw him, Harry. I don’t know why you’re so worried. Maybe to distract us readers from what is obviously going to happen in a few minutes?

Now Harry reaches the end of the tunnel to find the opening into the shack blocked by an old crate. This allows him to see into the room without being detected by the people inside—who wouldn’t see him anyway, since he’s currently under an Invisibility Cloak.

Harry sees the snake floating around in her little air bubble cage and Voldemort’s hand at the edge of a table. Then he hears Snape and realizes the man is only inches from him.

Snape tells Voldemort that the Resistance is crumbling and pleads with him to go looking for Harry. He promises to bring “the boy” back for Voldemort.

But Voldemort isn’t interested in Harry right now. He explains to Snape that he has a problem with his wand. Snape seems confused. He’s probably wondering if this is about magic or if it’s just another dick joke.

Harry can’t see Snape and wonders if Snape realizes the danger he’s in. When he does finally manage to catch Snape in profile, he sees that the man is staring at Nagini.

Once again, Snape asks to go find Potter.

Voldemort dismisses the request. Snape and Lucius, he says, do not understand Harry Potter. Voldemort knows that Harry’s flaw is that he won’t like people dying for him. Because of that, he will come seek Voldemort.

Hmm. I would have agreed with that a few years ago. But I’ve spent thirty-one chapters following Harry as he obsessed about Dumbledore and wasted time staring at ceilings while other people were suffering and dying, so I’m not sure Voldemort is all that keyed into Harry’s psyche.

Snape, having studied Harry’s dueling, argues that Harry might well be killed accidentally by one of the Death Eaters. Or, he might step on a teacup and bleed to death because he lacks basic first aid skills. You never know with Harry.

Voldemort again deflects Snape’s request and starts meandering toward his reason for summoning Snape. It takes a long time. Time in which Snape can only stammer that he doesn’t know why Voldemort is having such a hard time with his wands or stare fixedly at the floating snake.

I really wonder how much Snape might possibly know at this point. Canonically speaking, he doesn’t know anything. He doesn’t know about the Elder Wand and he doesn’t know that Nagini is a Horcrux. But it seems like Snape would have enough knowledge in Dark Arts, Voldemort, and Dumbledore method’s to put a few things together. That ring in Dumbledore’s office, and the diary—wouldn’t he be able to tell that they were former Horcruxes? I can’t help wanking that he’s considering casting Sectumsempra on Nagini at this moment in time. I think that spell’s Dark enough and permanent enough to destroy the Horcrux.

Although, I never could figure out why Voldemort would ever voluntarily put a Horcrux into a living being. She could always get hit by a car, you know. Or die of old age. I just checked. Boa constrictors normally live only about 25-30 years.

Finally, Voldemort starts getting to the point when he says that he took the Elder Wand from Dumbledore’s cold, dead hands.

As this point, Snape turns to look at Voldemort. Harry, looking through Voldemort’s eyes, see Snape’s face as a death mask, still and marble-white. It’s a nice, strong image, and once again, I wonder what’s going through Snape’s head at this point.

Does the name “Elder Wand” mean anything to him? Is he appalled to realize that Voldemort desecrated Dumbledore’s tomb? (I always wonder if Voldemort tidied up afterward.)

Three or four paragraphs later, Voldemort explains that Snape, having killed Dumbledore, is the master of the Elder Wand. Voldemort will not truly own it while Snape is alive. Of course, Voldemort encountered not one, but two living people who had lost the mastery of the Elder Wand—but somehow he still thinks it’s necessary to kill his most trusted Death Eater in order to gain it? I guess that’s just Voldemort’s solution to every thing. Idiot.

At this point Snape raises his wand, protesting, “My Lord!”

Voldemort must not feel very threatened because he keeps monologuing another few seconds before slashing his wand through the air. This starts the cage rolling toward Snape and encasing his head and shoulders before he can react. Voldemort orders Nagini in parseltongue to “kill” and she bites Snape in the neck.

Voldemort coldly levitates the cage away from Snape, who falls to the floor, bleeding from his wounds. He leaves the room with the snake floating after him.

Harry, breaking the connection, can see only Snape’s boot trembling on the floor. I do like that image. I like it a lot more than Snape with his head in the cage. I don’t know. Maybe that’ll look better on film.

Hermione whispers Harry’s name, and Harry moves the crate out of the way. He crawls into the room and approaches Snape, not knowing why—not knowing how to feel. Snape doesn’t seem to have that problem, since he’s desperately trying to keep from bleeding to death. He seems know what he’s feeling—a strong desire to live.

Harry takes off the Invisibility Cloak and Snape’s eyes widen at the sight of him. He grabs Harry’s robes and pulls him down, saying, “Take… it... Take… it.” Then he somehow manages to make his memories flow out of his head and into the air.

Harry, as usual, is clueless about how to handle this situation. Hermione is not and conjures a flask to catch the memories in. She does this instead of other things she might have done—like stop the bleeding or treat his snake bites. Things we know she did at other times in the story.

Then, when Snape is drained of his memories and most of his blood, he says, “Look… at… me…” and dies staring at Harry’s green eyes.

I know that many people found this death unworthy of Snape, but I don’t mind it. It’s a strong scene, even if Voldemort does take a long time getting to the point—and Snape can’t really say anything interesting because it would give away the reveal in the next chapter. True, the cage thing sounds pretty stupid, and yes, Hermione should have at least tried to do something. But I still don’t mind it.

Snape in this scene is the best of what I imagine him to be. He’s focused on the one task he’s been given to do to help save the world, and against all odds, he manages to do it. It’s an undignified way to die, yet Snape does die with dignity. He faces death bravely and quietly, and all he ever asks for is a tiny bit of recognition. Not praise. Just recognition.

That’s my Snape.

Fan Service:
Snape’s death is grisly enough to satisfy even the most rabid Snape hater.
We get all kinds of Patroni! Ernie the boar and Seamus the fox!

Fan Slappage:
It’s not enough to kill Snape off. He must be made to look ridiculous in the process.


DVD Extras:
(Because I am just this self-indulgent….)

EXT. NIGHT – OUTSIDE THE SHRIEKING SHACK

Voldemort glides out of the shack’s door, followed by Nagini in her floating sphere. He clambers up onto a nearby boulder and places the Elder Wand to his throat.

VOLDEMORT
You have fought valiantly. Lord Voldemort knows how to value bravery….

In the shadows by the door, Lucius Malfoy slips inside.

CUT TO:

INT. SHRIEKING SHACK

Lucius presses against the wall of the entrance as he watches Harry step backwards away from Snape’s body and then turn to go into the tunnel.

As soon as Harry is gone, Lucius rushes to Snape’s side. He picks up Snape’s wand and murmurs a healing spelling. Then he presses his ear to Snape’s chest.

As if by magic, Narcissa appears behind him.

NARCISSA
(whispering) What are you doing?

LUCIUS
His heart is still beating. What did you do with those potions?

NARCISSA
They’re at home. In the curio cupboard.

Lucius pulls Snape up over one shoulder. Staggering, he rises to his feet.

NARCISSA (cont’d)
Are you mad? What if he notices you missing?

LUCIUS
I’ll be back soon.

He Apparates.

CUT TO:

INT. MALFOY MANOR, FRONT PARLOR.

The impact of landing brings Lucius to his kneels. He lowers Snape down tol the carpet and places the wand on Snape’s chest.

LUCIUS
Suspirus.

Snape draws a single painful breath.

LUCIUS (cont’d)
Drabble! Bring me the bottles from the cupboard.

He places one arm under Snape’s neck and pulls him up a little. An elf presses a blue bottle into his hand and he pours the contents into Snape’s mouth.

LUCIUS (cont’d)
Drinkdrinkdrinkdrinkdrinkdrink….

Snape swallows and draws in another breath.

LUCIUS
That’s it. Now the red one.

He pours a red bottle into Snape’s mouth. Snape coughs, his eyes fluttering open.

SNAPE
(hoarsely) What… is that?

LUCIUS
Blood replenishing. You were right when you said they’d come in handy.

SNAPE
(muttering) Bitter. I’ll try… licorice root... next batch…

He closes his eyes, but there’s color in his face and he’s breathing steadily now. Lucius sighs in relief.

LUCIUS
That you will. (soothingly) Now, Drabble is going to make you a nice bed in our secret room and you’re going to go rest there until you’re better.

He smooths a lock of Snape’s hair back.

LUCIUS (cont’d)
(a lullaby:) Because that sweet little wand of his isn’t going to work, is it? Not as long as you stay alive.

He smiles as we

FADE OUT

Comments

[sunlit-music.livejournal.com]

What made George your favourite out of the twins? :)

I liked the twins in the earlier books too. In the earlier books, they were funny, impulsive and unpredictable. Then they started becoming cruel, and I lost interest in them. The twins stuffing poor Blaise into cupboard was just too much. Blaise could have been *killed*. How anyone could have found nearly killing someone funny is completely beyond me.

And the twins making Dudley's tongue grow in Goblet of Fire...*shudders* Dudley could have been asphyxiated by the overgrown tongue.

But Voldemort isn’t interested in Harry right now. He explains to Snape that he has a problem with his wand. Snape seems confused. He’s probably wondering if this is about magic or if it’s just another dick joke.

*laughs and laughs*

I don't get why JKR felt the compunction to make Snape look ridiculous. It's bad enough that Snape dies in the place where he almost got killed by Lupin. He deserved so much better. He gets almost no recognition for saving the Wizarding World (and having a kid named after him doesn't count as proper recognition). There should have been a statue, or a plaque. Or a speech in his honour. The wizarding world should have *cared* that Snape saved them.

This DVD extra has a fantastic explanation for why Voldemort wasn't the master of the Elder Wand. Too bad Rowling never thought of this.

I loved your DVD extras. They give some of the Sytherins the dignity and redemption they deserved.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

What made George your favourite out of the twins? :)

He always struck me as slightly more thoughtful and less aggressive than Fred. Fred seemed to instigate things and George seemed follow more. I kind of imagine that, in their business partnership, Fred was probably the front man, wheedling vendors and wowing customers, while George was in the back, doing the books and coming up with the new ideas.

The twins stuffing poor Blaise into cupboard was just too much. Blaise could have been *killed*. How anyone could have found nearly killing someone funny is completely beyond me.

It was actually Montague, but that certainly doesn't make it any better!

And the twins making Dudley's tongue grow in Goblet of Fire...*shudders* Dudley could have been asphyxiated by the overgrown tongue.

Two things helped make that moment bearable for me. One was that the violence of the series had been rather cartoon-like, especially with the Dursleys. So, it seemed of a piece with that. The other was that Arthur started yelling at the Twins about it as soon as he got back (and we can infer that he fixed Dudley right after Harry left).

But reading that scene after the end of the book--when Voldemort returns and things start getting very dark is a different experience. And it's impossible to take the violence in OotP lightheartedly.

The wizarding world should have *cared* that Snape saved them.

To be fair to the wizarding world, Dumbledore arranged things so that Snape would get minimal credit. All Snape really did was to tell Harry that he needed to die. All the other stuff--protecting the school, spying on Voldemort--is very hard to quantify.

This DVD extra has a fantastic explanation for why Voldemort wasn't the master of the Elder Wand. Too bad Rowling never thought of this.

Well, she left us an out... so I took it.

Comment 1 of 2

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Oooh! First, off, I've just go to say:

(a lullaby:) Because that sweet little wand of his isn’t going to work, is it? Not as long as you stay alive.

What a great/original idea!! I love it. Even though we know that Lucius, like Riddle, was unaware of the fine print in the new version of the wand lore introduced just for this book (i.e., that Snape wasn't the master of the wand anyway). But that's okay, no-one knew until Rowling told Harry about two seconds before he faced Voldemort.

Then she turns to Harry and begs him to use his Voldie-mind powers to look inside Voldemort and see where the snake is.

Oh God I *hate* the Dark Lord Mental Broadcast Network so, SO MUCH! Such a contrivance! Such a plot crutch!! Rowling was so determined to keep to just Harry's point of view she had to whip up this gimmick so Harry - and we readers - could be artificially apprised of what was happening with Riddle and also be given the massive information dump necessary to make sense of the new Deathly Hallow gimmicks.

Is this a deliberate contradiction to Hermione’s earlier stance on Harry’s connection to Voldemort?

I reckon so. But the whole Dark Lord Mental Broadcast Network gimmick is a one hundred and eighty degree U-turn on what we'd been told just a couple of books ago.

In OotP Voldemort is far and away Harry's mental master and successfully uses the link to lure Harry into a trap. So, what do you do when (a) you've successfully employed such a device, and (b) your foe has absolutely no defence against this proven weapon? Why, you drop it entirely, so said foe can spend his sixth year occupied with puerile juvenile romantic hijinks! But then, lo, the book after that, things are *reversed*; not only are we not using the link against the boy, nor successfully blocking it, instead we're *pushing* our innermost plans and thoughts into his mind! Telling him exactly what he needs to know to defeat us!

Pfah.

I know that Riddle experienced pain when Harry had feelings of 'love' while he was POSSESSED at the end of OotP. But that had nothing to do with Riddle's using the link to successfully bamboozle Harry. And DH is the proof - Voldemort was sending Harry newsflashes of his deeds throughout the entire novel, completely unknowing; in no pain at all.

The Dark Lord Mental Broadcast Network stands as one of the most artificial and contrived gimmicks that Rowling ever employed, in my opinion. Harry never had to *think*; whenever he needed to know something about the Dark Lord Rowling would send a newsflash his way within seconds.

If you don’t have Dumbledore around to tell you what to do, Hermione is the next best thing.

Hee. :-)

“Crookshanks?” Hermione gasps out, “Are you a wizard or what?”

Sigh. See, that sort of shoutout to PS/SS is a lot better in a film than in a book. ... But in a book, that line is beyond stupid.

Yeah. But Rowling only has this ONE, LAST novel to (a) have Ron grow up quickly, and (b) establish the R/Hr pairing. Hence the "always the tone of surprise" exchange earlier in the book, and now this. See - six books of fighting, and arguments, and bitter acrimony. One book of (beyond stupid) awkward lines between the two. Sigh. It's true love! *fade to the epilogue*

Although, I never could figure out why Voldemort would ever voluntarily put a Horcrux into a living being. She could always get hit by a car, you know. Or die of old age.

Agreed, it's always seemed weird to me too.

These sort of questions are never posed in the book, of course. I wonder if Rowling is hard at work answering all of these questions in her forthcoming 'encyclopedia'?

Of course, Voldemort encountered not one, but two living people who had lost the mastery of the Elder Wand—but somehow he still thinks it’s necessary to kill his most trusted Death Eater in order to gain it?

Nice observation!

Re: Comment 1 of 2

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Even though we know that Lucius, like Riddle, was unaware of the fine print in the new version of the wand lore introduced just for this book (i.e., that Snape wasn't the master of the wand anyway).

Thanks. That's what I was figuring. I love the Snape/Lucius relationship. The one that's entirely in my head, I mean. :) But I thought Lucius would do something if he could. I didn't actually know why Lucius was saving him until I got to that moment in the writing. Tricky Lucius! He came up with that all on his own!

Oh God I *hate* the Dark Lord Mental Broadcast Network so, SO MUCH! Such a contrivance! Such a plot crutch!! Rowling was so determined to keep to just Harry's point of view she had to whip up this gimmick so Harry - and we readers - could be artificially apprised of what was happening with Riddle and also be given the massive information dump necessary to make sense of the new Deathly Hallow gimmicks.

The thing is, it could have worked, except that JKR was determined not to Harry develop mastery over it until Dobby's death. I've talked tons about my love for Theowyn's The Enemy Within (http://www.potionsandsnitches.net/fanfiction/viewstory.php?sid=1286). In that story, Snape and Harry spend most of sixth year working on Occlumency.

After HBP came out, Theowyn wrote a sequel called "Harry Potter and the Chained Souls" which incorporated a lot of stuff from HBP and DH (which came out mid-story). Both stories explore what might have happened had logic and continuity applied to the Voldemort/Harry mind connection.

But Rowling only has this ONE, LAST novel to (a) have Ron grow up quickly, and (b) establish the R/Hr pairing.

You know, I never found Ron all that immature compared to Harry and Hermione. JKR's quotes about how he needed to mature to be on their level left me scratching my head.

Why is Ron not on Harry's level of maturity? Because he hasn't suffered as much? And he's not on Hermione's level--why? Because she kissed a boy when she was fourteen and he didn't until he was sixteen? So, maturity is a result of either horrible trauma or a kiss?

And, if it's a result of kissing--Ron did a lot more kisssing than Hermione or Harry did. Shouldn't he be the most mature by DH?

Comment 2 of 2

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Voldemort orders Nagini in parseltongue to kill and she bites Snape in the neck.

Voldemort coldly levitates the cage away from Snape, who falls to the floor, bleeding from his wounds. He leaves the room with the snake floating after him.

One of the most STUPID and CONTRIVED scenes in the entire book. In EVERY OTHER PASSAGE where Riddle has killed someone it's been via a 'flash of green light'. The housekeeper and her children - green light. Grindlewald - green light. The goblin - green light.

But here? Why, Voldemort not only DOESN'T use the instantly-kills-him-dead curse, he also gets Nagini to do the deed!!!

Why, oh why, after just explaining his reasons for killing Snape - so that he, Voldemort, will personally become the Master of the Elder Wand - would the dark lord then turn around and use Nagini, or ANY proxy, to do the deed for him? Risking mastery of that wand?

And why not a curse that kills Snape instantly? Like *every other murder* that has preceded this scene in the book?

Answer - because Harry needed to sneak up and grab Snape's memories. So Rowling just needed to write it this way. No character-based reasons. No plot-based reasons. Just 'because otherwise the plot wouldn't go where I need it to go' reasons.

Horrible. Just a horrible, horrible book.

She does this instead of other things she might have donelike stop the bleeding or treat his snake bites. Things we know she did at other times in the story.

Hermione *would* have tried to save Snape, I'm sure, were it not for Rowling telling her that she, like Riddle, had to act out of character in order to try and hold up the plot.

Got to say again, I love your 'DVD Extra' twist on the Elder Wand mastery, so clever!!

Re: Comment 2 of 2

[sunlit-music.livejournal.com]

Hi madderbrad,

One of the most STUPID and CONTRIVED scenes in the entire book. In EVERY OTHER PASSAGE where Riddle has killed someone it's been via a 'flash of green light'. The housekeeper and her children - green light. Grindlewald - green light. The goblin - green light.

But here? Why, Voldemort not only DOESN'T use the instantly-kills-him-dead curse, he also gets Nagini to do the deed!!!

That's a really good point! I hadn't noticed that before. It makes sense for Voldemort to kill Snape instantly.

No character-based reasons. No plot-based reasons. Just 'because otherwise the plot wouldn't go where I need it to go' reasons.

This. This, this, THIS! JKR needs to stop writing stuff that is OOC or makes no sense to the plot.

Harry never had to *think*; whenever he needed to know something about the Dark Lord Rowling would send a newsflash his way within seconds.

I know! Bram Stoker actually wrote a better variation of this idea in Dracula.

SPOILERS FOR DRACULA:

Although Dracula and Mina could read each other's minds, Dracula eventually cut Mina off from his mind. And she was slowly becoming a vampire, which was truly scary. Dracula had heaps of power over her, so the reader stays on the edge of their seats. Voldemort has no power over Harry, and we know Harry's going to kill him with no effort. Because of this, the suspense is gone.

Re: Comment 2 of 2

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Why, oh why, after just explaining his reasons for killing Snape - so that he, Voldemort, will personally become the Master of the Elder Wand - would the dark lord then turn around and use Nagini, or ANY proxy, to do the deed for him? Risking mastery of that wand?

Yes. I suppose that Voldemort might not have wanted to risk Snape out-dueling him, but that's not really a possibility, is it? Voldemort does have that Elder Wand in his hands.

If JKR had established (and she had ample opportunity) that the Elder Wand wasn't working well for Voldemort earlier in the book, it might have made a little more sense that he just doesn't AK Snape.

Hermione *would* have tried to save Snape, I'm sure, were it not for Rowling telling her that she, like Riddle, had to act out of character in order to try and hold up the plot.

Yes, I think you are right. Except for the people who crossed her, Hermione had a "saving people thing" just like Harry (which makes it funny that she faults him for it in OotP). Unlike Harry, she had some intelligence and skill for saving people.

All Harry really had was the Cloak. :)

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

LUCIUS
That you will. (soothingly) Now, Drabble is going to make you a nice bed in our secret room and you’re going to go rest there until you’re better.

He smooths a lock of Snape’s hair back.

LUCIUS (cont’d)
(a lullaby:) Because that sweet little wand of his isn’t going to work, is it? Not as long as you stay alive.

God, now I keep seeing a HP/Reservoir Dogs crossover. Snape as Mr Orange, Lucius as Mr White... Stop me before I cast the whole thing.
Anyway, once again the extra was better than the actual chapter. <3

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

It's been ages since I saw that movie. Which one was Mr. White?

Funny thing--there's a story that Tim Roth was supposed to be cast as Snape, but he did Planet of the Apes instead.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

"Snape as Mr Orange, Lucius as Mr white...stop me before I cast the whole thing"
Lol I now have a mental image of Bellatrix torturing Mr Ollivander to the sound of "stuck in the middle with you".

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

"The chapter starts with Harry still in shock because Fred is dead. How could people go in fighting? the world has ended..."
Such a corny paragraph- why does the sun go on shining?/why does the sea rush to shore?/don't they know it's the end of the world?/cause Fred Weasley isn't alive anymore.

"A silver hare,a fox and a boar soar in to chase away the dementors...Luna urges Harry to think of something happy and reminds him that they are still fighting"
Bless...where is Ginny's patronus btw? oh that's right, Rowling didn't think she deserved to have one.

[eri1980b.livejournal.com]

In fact what would Ginny's patronus even be? By rights a doe to match Harry's stag? Oh lord I might be sick...

[eri1980b.livejournal.com]

I didn't care much about Fred's death. It was said but the odds were one of them was going to die, after all there are 9 Weasleys in total all fighting, you do the maths. I did feel for Percy at this point though (I heart Percy just a little bit) because he'd only just been reconciled to his family (though I don't know why he bothered, if they were mine I think I'd just see Ron, Bill and Charlie as and when, but change my name to Weatherby).

"Maybe Harry suffers from A.D.D.?" Made me laugh so much because it explains so much about Harry. Give hermione a task and she will stick to it religiously, give Neville a task and he will complete it, even with his bad memory. Give Harry a task and he'll spend months obsessing about something else or going "oh look a squirrel" or something...I mean seriously Harry, people are dying here! And all we get is "Oh look a giant"!
"Or, he might step on a teacup and bleed to death" is so true and would be a much more fitting end for our hero.

Why oh why oh why oh why did Snape have to die? (Yes and why didn't Voldie just do the job quickly, surely as his "most faithful DE yadda yadda" he would want him to die swiftly, and the AK is nice and quick) The only purpose the whole Nagini bite thing serves it that it gives us a way out of it, so we can pretend he had a potion in his pocket to sort the problem out, or some other fanwank. I have so much more to say on this subject, such as the pathetic scrap of recognition he will get for giving the best part of 20 years of his life to the cause and dying for nothing at all! Well at least he and Sirius Black can now bitch all the way through the afterlife about who had it hardest. Coincidently, how long did it take them to get to Arthur Weasley when he suffered the same fate and survived? Continuity thy name is not JKR is it...

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

if they were mine I think I'd just see Ron, Bill and Charlie as and when, but change my name to Weatherby...

Heh. Just like he did in an earlier DVD extra!

Give Harry a task and he'll spend months obsessing about something else or going "oh look a squirrel" or something...

That made me laugh very hard, thinking about those dogs in Up!

Coincidently, how long did it take them to get to Arthur Weasley when he suffered the same fate and survived?

Maybe we wouldn't be so annoyed about the Snape snake-death if Arthur had died like JKR originally planned. Of course, there's still Harry surviving the attack by Nagini, but in that one, she was just supposed to hold him. It had to have been a good half-hour before anyone found Arthur--and that was longer than Harry would have spent staring down at Snape and doing nothing.

Well... maybe not.

But it's longer than you'd think Hermione would have.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

Well, if Snape had lived...

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/215/b/1/Deathly_Comic_2__If_He_Lived_by_Sheana.gif

Or, as it happened...

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs18/f/2007/205/d/0/Dumb_Deathly_Comic__SPOILERY__by_Sheana.gif

Poor Snape get the short end of the stick no matter what, doesn't he?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I do love that first comic. I'd never seen the second one before. Thanks for that!

[detritius.livejournal.com]

I never really understood Snape's death. I mean, what even happened? Did Nagini sever his carotid artery? I don't remember any descriptions of spurting blood and such. I supposed she could have poisoned him, but that doesn't seem right either, because a snake that size should be a constrictor and not venomous. I am I expecting too much biological accuracy from JKR?

And then there's the fact that the whole snake-in-a-bubble thing is such a ridiculous mental image, and the whole Elder Wand mastery thing is so convoluted and dumb, and I don't even know what to say about the memories leaking out of Snape's ears or whatever. It's just such a stupid scene.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

I am I expecting too much biological accuracy from JKR?

***Poor Nagini is Voldie's pet, so it's only to be expected he did som magic changes to her. Like making her much bigger than a poisonous snake normally is and being able to crawl on cold floors without being all cold and lethargic or catching pneumonia and so on.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

I’m not going to cheer because the twins never pissed me off as badly as they’ve pissed off other readers, but I didn’t feel much of anything when Fred died, and, two years later, I still don’t.

I wanted to cheer, but Fred had just halfway redeemed himself by accepting Percy's apology as graciously as he knew how. Ideally he should have begged Percy's forgiveness for treating him like shit and helping convince him that he wasn't part of the family, but asking the twins for self-insight, empathy and higher morality is like asking Hagrid to wise up. Fred did the best he could with his very limited resources, like Molly does her best with her limited intellect.

The Trio bravely run away and come upon Draco pleading with a Death Eater by claiming to be on his side. Harry stuns the Death Eater, and Ron punches Draco.

Are we expected to go, yay Ron? To me it seemed like Draco was doing the smart thing when faced with a threatening DE. Should he have told the truth? "Hi, my family are technically Voldemort supporters but my heart hasn't been in it since last year, so I'll be as little use as I can get away with. See ya!" Or is it a punchable offense that he didn't raise a cheer for Potter and get himself pointlessly killed?

Hagrid pushes past the Trio, trying to save his precious spiders. The precious spiders swarm him and carry him off into the forest.

JKR won't tolerate cowardice, but she's endlessly forgiving of toxic levels of stupidity. Hagrid filled the Forbidden Forest with vicious man-eating spiders. Clearly it was the author's karmic duty to make them eat him.

Finally, Voldemort starts getting to the point when he says that he took the Elder Wand from Dumbledore’s cold, dead hands.
As this point, Snape turns to look at Voldemort. Harry, looking through Voldemort’s eyes, see Snape’s face as a death mask, still and marble-white. It’s a nice, strong image, and once again, I wonder what’s going through Snape’s head at this point.

*raises hand* Ooh, me! Pick me! What I figure, Snape's obviously heard of the Elder Wand. But he had no idea Dumbledore was its master. He's realizing that not only is Voldemort's about to kill him, but Dumbledore set him up to die.

I mean, it doesn't matter whether Dumbledore meant for the wand's power to be neutralized at his death, or for Snape to be the new master. Either way he left him wide open to Voldemort's attack. Let's generously assume that the old man wanted Snape to have the mastery (which I don't believe for a moment, but let's). How far would that protect him? Though unaware of it, Snape would be undefeatable in a duel. Voldemort would realize he can't kill him -- with a wand, that is. Anything else he can throw at him, from giant snakes to grand pianos, will work just fine; which is exactly what happened. By not telling him what he had, Dumbledore betrayed Snape to his death. That was the last shock of Snape's life, that both his masters fucked him over. At least Voldemort was regretful.

Thank you so much for the DVD extra. That's such a great Slytherin reason to save someone, out of calculation and friendship at the same time. I still cling to the idea that there was something genuine between Snape and Lucius. Besides, someone needed to at least make the effort. Snape dying I could accept, maybe even the farcical manner of it, head stuck in a birdcage like he's been fighting the Marx Brothers. But it sucks majorly that he bleeds out while Harry and Hermione just stand there, being as much use as tits on Ernie's Patronus.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

To me it seemed like Draco was doing the smart thing when faced with a threatening DE.

Yes. Once you get beyond the narrow Gryffindor mindset, it wasn't like Draco had any other way of defending himself. And it wasn't until reading through the chapter for the umpteenth time doing this spork that I realized the Trio has an damn Invisibility Cloak, so it's not like they really have to worry much about the Death Eaters cursing them.

I think that JKR just wanted to please her fans by having Draco punched in the nose. And Harry was too noble to do that.

What I figure, Snape's obviously heard of the Elder Wand. But he had no idea Dumbledore was its master. He's realizing that not only is Voldemort's about to kill him, but Dumbledore set him up to die.

I like that. And I agree completely that Dumbledore either deliberately set Snape up to die or he was so indifferent about Snape's life that he didn't even bother to consider what would happen.

I still cling to the idea that there was something genuine between Snape and Lucius.

I do, too. I keep trying to imagine what that moment must have been like when Lucius came to fetch Snape for Voldemort. I think he had to suspect what was coming... but he also must have been wondering if either of them would survive that night.

[duniazade.livejournal.com]

Wonderful DVD extra as usual! Thank you so much for this series - it's always a pleasure.

Concerning the Elder Wand: Snape has seen that wand in Dumbledore's hand for thirty years. How could he fail to recognise it the very first time he saw it in Voldie's hand?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Very good point. He still wouldn't necessarily know that it was the Elder Wand--until Voldemort told him.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

DUMBLEDORE KILLS SNAPE, PAGE 656!

I hated this chapter so much. The Snape we'd seen as clever and aware was left to babble about getting Potter while Voldemort monologued and Potter sat on his hands and stared, as usual. Where was Potter's Saving People Thing? Where was his more recent, "must kill Nagini" thing? The payoff for Potter not learning Occlumency was Snape's death. This was probably supposed to be poetic justice. Problem is, based on his past non-action, I can't see Potter taking any step against Voldemort even if he wasn't in thrall to Voldie Vision. Worst hero evar.

And I am convinced the payoff for Snape trusting Dumbledore was Snape's death. For all the portrait conversations, I don't think Dumbledore told Snape about the Elder Wand, even though Snape undoubtedly reported Voldemort taking Lucius' wand and traveling the world in search of something. Great way to repay the sacrifice of performing a mercy killing, but he has to keep those secrets! Later in the book, Harry says to Dumbledore that Dumbledore never killed anyone if he didn't have to. In fact, Dumbledore let people walk right into their deaths without bothering himself at all as to necessity.

I see why you don't mind the way Snape died, but I do mind! Stupid, despicable chapter with its passive, morally-weak heroes. *Grumbles*

That said, I loved your Lucius.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

The Snape we'd seen as clever and aware was left to babble about getting Potter while Voldemort monologued and Potter sat on his hands and stared, as usual.

I agree. What got me through the book in the first place was the hope that Snape would show up and spread some Snapeness around. But he was so deep undercover that we really didn't get any fun stuff. Is there even one good Snape line? Oh, yes, one. In the next chapter.


In fact, Dumbledore let people walk right into their deaths without bothering himself at all as to necessity.

I know. We still don't know why Emmeline Vance died, and the most obvious reason was simply to protect Snape's cover by sacrificing an Order member.

Bastard.

[ex-zatanna330.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I've ever posted in this community-- long time lurker, at any rate.

Just wanted to rant a bit because Ron punching Draco still makes me want to flail and bite people, out of an entire book that's fairly flail-inducing. Good sense isn't like lycanthropy, unfortunately (or else we might have been able to get someone to bite JKR before she started writing DH, and maybe the non-Slytherin parts HBP too).

I started reading a fic the other day (I usually don't read post-DH fics just to avoid the stupid, but I don't know, I guess I was just naive one day), and it had Draco being all apologetic to Harry for trying to convince the Death Eater that he was on his side. I had to stop reading.

Draco's my favorite ergo I tend to over-identify with him a little bit, so that moment was just completely mind-boggling to me. It's like, maybe Ron has only the two brain cells to rub together, but surely it's not that hard to figure out what Draco's doing.

Not to mention if you want to go this far-- if Draco is trying to tell the DE that he's on their side, doesn't that kind of imply something? Like that the Death Eater has reason to believe Draco might have switched sides?

If JKR was just looking to please her fans with a "ha-ha Draco get's punched in the nose" scene; her fans could have just read the previous books. Harry and Draco didn't really get physically violent until fifth year (I think), but Ron and Draco were fighting like cats and dogs as early as PS/SS. Or, you know, they could look for any of the other times that Draco get's beaten down by somebody/somebody's pet.

I'd already given up on the book at this point, so this moment was just what stuck out as my own personal "oh, come on!" moment in a book of "WTF seriously, are you kidding?"

My whining now commenced, I think I'll be retreating back into my fanfic now. This sporking is amazing-- I have no idea how you find the strength to read this book again. And I've been loving your DVD extras. I cheered a little for Lucius in this one, though most of it was in my head as I'm around people.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

So glad that you de-lurked! I hope you do again. It's always fun to read the responses.

Draco and the Dursleys share this thing of getting constantly beaten down. I think it was Sistermagpie that clued me into the fact that Draco always gets worse then he gives--and yet somehow the impression is that he's bullying Harry all the time. The only time he isn't immediately beaten down is on the train in HBP (which I found a thrilling moment). Later on Harry gets revenge, although it isn't framed that way at all, by almost killing Draco in the bathroom.

It's sort of like the observation made in the Ken Burns' documentary about the West, where the western spectacle shows re-enacted these horrible massacres of pioneers by Indians, even though the history of European/American Indian relations was that the Indians were the ones getting slaughtered. Historically, we were trying to have our cake and eat it, too.

Which is how it works with Draco and the Dursleys. They end up getting horribly abused--but they always deserve it because they started it. Heh, no wonder people assume that Snape deserved what happened to him at the hands of the Marauders.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I don't get the interpretation that Voldemort's "rest of the Slytherins" means he's lying. Who on earth would he be lying for at this moment? He'd just say he didn't come and join him. He has no reason to use that phrase to Lucius. What, is he pathetically lying to Lucius so he thinks he has Slytherin friends?

Actually, I do understand the interpretation, of course. It's all about pretending that JKR didn't totally write the Slytherins as baddies and cowards through and through, that she was being "complex" and anybody who actually believes what she flat out wrote on the page isn't reading deeply enough.

Remember all that stuff about people coming together to fight Voldemort, with Wizards having to form alliances? What we meant was that Wizards will fight amongst themselves for the rights of other Wizards, and other races will prove whether or not they're good by fighting for us.

I love that Voldemort thinks saying that Harry won't want others to die for him is insight into his psyche. What he's basically saying is that Harry is just so good and kind he won't let that happen and Voldemort hates that because he's just jealous of someone that heroic.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Actually, I do understand the interpretation, of course. It's all about pretending that JKR didn't totally write the Slytherins as baddies and cowards through and through, that she was being "complex" and anybody who actually believes what she flat out wrote on the page isn't reading deeply enough.

I can't quite remember why it was so important to try and convince us that she wasn't writing off the Slytherins. I just remember people pushing that interpretation. Maybe it was because of Phineas Nigellus's statement later on that Slytherin played its part?

But I recall there was a lot of discussion about this. Some (like me) were saying, "Hey! Where was that Unity stuff that the Hat said was so important? What about that stuff Dumbledore said about welcoming foreign students? What about the stuff where wizards were endangering themselves by treating over magical races badly?"

None of it seemed to make a bit of difference in the end. None of the "badly treated" races, cultures, or Houses fought for Hogwarts and the Death Eaters were still trounced in the end, because Neville killed a snake and Harry grabbed a wand.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

This chapter starts with Harry still in shock because Fred is dead. How could people go on fighting? The world has ended… yadda yadda yadda.

***I'll cut Harry some slack here. Fred was his friend, after all. Harry didn't have many of them...

So…. that ambiguous phrase “rest of the Slytherins.” Some reader interpret this to mean that all the overage Slytherin students went out to join the Death Eaters. Some interpret it to mean that at least some of the students did. Others have interpreted it to mean that none of them did, and that Voldemort is just a big fat liar.

***And wouldn't we all wish the author had told us who was right?


He tells Lucius to fetch Snape. Lucius stumbles off on the errand and Voldemort whispers, “It is the only way, Nagini” to the snake, which is now suspended in a glittering transparent cage.

***Good. That means the poor thing doesn't have to crawl around on cold floors


That reminds me. When the wall expoded and killed Fred, Harry was “bleeding copiously” from some wound (probably a gash on his cheek). What happened? When did he stop bleeding? Or has that been going on all this while? Head wounds—even minor ones--tend to keep bleeding if not treated.

***JKR doesn't revise her writings?


Harry has a momentary qualm as he wonders if Voldemort is leading him into a trap, but Ron pushes him into the tunnel. The tunnel is now relatively smaller and they must actually crawl through it. How did they manage to float Snape’s upright body through it, four years earlier? This tunnel never really made much sense.

***See last comment

Boa constrictors normally live only about 25-30 years.

***Nagini is a magically-enchanced poisonous snake. With magically-changed poison. Oh, and able to crawl on cold floors without ending up all cold and sluggish, and getting pneumonia.

Harry, as usual, is clueless about how to handle this situation. Hermione is not and conjures a flask to catch the memories in. She does this instead of other things she might have done—like stop the bleeding or treat his snake bites. Things we know she did at other times in the story.

Well, Snape desperately wanted them to see those memories. Still, why make Harry&Ron so goddamned dumb that none of *them* could conjure the flask or try to staunch the wound?

My point is that they might not have succeeded in saving Snape. Perhaps Nagini-bites in the jugular is more lethal than one to the leg. If JKR wanted him dead she could have him die - but the Trio would look a bit less than clue-less first-years.


Is it just me, or could this book have been fairly decent with some editorial input and some serious re-writing? Like every other MS I know of? This book just screams "FIRST DRAFT" to me.
As did the earlier. But they are getting worse when our Jo tried to tie all her lose threads.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

This book just screams "FIRST DRAFT" to me.

Yes, me too. Your comment made me curious enough to look up when JKR finished the manuscript. It was January 11, 2007. The book was released only about six months after that. I could be wrong about this, because I've never worked in trade publishing, but that seems like a really short turnaround--especially when you consider that the illustrations would need to be made and 11 million copies printed.

Of course, I could be wrong in thinking that "finished" meant she had finished the first draft. Perhaps she had gone to the hotel to look over the editor notes and do her rewriting.

But I kind of doubt it.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Is this a deliberate contradiction to Hermione’s earlier stance on Harry’s connection to Voldemort? What the hell. It’s not like Hermione hasn’t reversed herself on elves and unauthorized spells.

It shows that now that the battle is on Hermione is pragmatic, I suppose.

So…. that ambiguous phrase “rest of the Slytherins.” Some reader interpret this to mean that all the overage Slytherin students went out to join the Death Eaters. Some interpret it to mean that at least some of the students did. Others have interpreted it to mean that none of them did, and that Voldemort is just a big fat liar.

Since Crabbe and Goyle stayed behind and were never seen by the fighters Voldemort clearly doesn't mean all current Slytherin in the upper 2-3 years. But some did join the fighting.

The Trio starts arguing about who should go kill the snake, and then they get attacked by Death Eaters and Hermione naturally saves them with creative wand work. She turns their staircase into a slide, and, once they’ve slid down through a tapestry, she turns the tapestry into a wall, which the two Death Eaters fly into. So, Hermione gets a couple kills.

And she does this with Bellatrix's former wand, the one that felt do alien and wrong that morning. I guess the wand was feeling more at home by now.

Did any of the stampeding desks and coats of armor bring down any DEs or do anything useful? The book does not reveal.

The tunnel is now relatively smaller and they must actually crawl through it. How did they manage to float Snape’s upright body through it, four years earlier?

It's a magical tunnel - always just a bit too narrow for comfort, no matter what tries to get down it. If Grawp were to attempt it he'd be able to manage it on hands and knees. Surprisingly enough Flitwick also needs to crawl to get through.

I really wonder how much Snape might possibly know at this point. Canonically speaking, he doesn’t know anything. He doesn’t know about the Elder Wand and he doesn’t know that Nagini is a Horcrux. But it seems like Snape would have enough knowledge in Dark Arts, Voldemort, and Dumbledore method’s to put a few things together. That ring in Dumbledore’s office, and the diary—wouldn’t he be able to tell that they were former Horcruxes? I can’t help wanking that he’s considering casting Sectumsempra on Nagini at this moment in time. I think that spell’s Dark enough and permanent enough to destroy the Horcrux.

I already said this is the first time Severus realized the nature of Albus' wand. Regarding the Horcruces, from the way Albus talks to Severus, it appears Albus did not expect Severus to know what a Horcrux was - he explains the matter of Harry's soul from first principles. Also I don't think the diary and the ring look any different from any other cursed-object-that-was-destroyed. However connecting the following facts:
- Harry contains a piece of Tom's soul and thus must die for Tom to be killable
- Tom will protect Nagini in the future
- Tom is not protecting Nagini now

should lead to the conclusion that one way or the other Harry, Nagini and something else are involved in making Tom unkillable. The timing of the protection around Nagini may point to 'something else' being something the trio took from Gringotts.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

It's a magical tunnel - always just a bit too narrow for comfort, no matter what tries to get down it. If Grawp were to attempt it he'd be able to manage it on hands and knees. Surprisingly enough Flitwick also needs to crawl to get through.

Ah! I'll bet that Dumbledore thought that one up!

The timing of the protection around Nagini may point to 'something else' being something the trio took from Gringotts.

Yes. It's pretty obvious that Snape knows it's time for him to deliver that message. But I guess what I was wondering is if Snape realized that the snake contained a piece of Voldemort's soul--and that it needed to die. I keep wondering if he's thinking about trying to take the snake out--and then realizes he can't because he'd end up dead and unable to tell Harry about letting Voldemort kill him.

I'm just not used to Snape being clueless about stuff. That's where my Snape doesn't jibe with canon--because Dumbledore really does keep him in the dark.

[wolf-willow31.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for that DVD! It helps redeem that horrible death scene, and makes me feel a little bit better.

By using Nagini, a snake which is the symbol of Slytherin, JKR seems to be trying to say that being a Slytherin was Snape's ultimate downfall. And by setting the scene in the Shrieking Shack, was she trying to draw a parallel with the werewolf prank? That is, Snape escaped death at the fangs of one Dark creature in the Shack during his youth, only to meet death at the fangs of another Dark creature in the same Shack later?

It's terrible that JKR had Harry and Hermione do nothing to help Snape. After all, Hero Harry had even tried to save Wormtail, who was largely responsible for his parents' death. What's a reader to think?

Excuse the rant, but this book upsets me so much!

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for that DVD! It helps redeem that horrible death scene, and makes me feel a little bit better.

Then I've done my job. :)

It's terrible that JKR had Harry and Hermione do nothing to help Snape. After all, Hero Harry had even tried to save Wormtail, who was largely responsible for his parents' death. What's a reader to think?

I think the reader is supposed to think at this point that Snape is evil. It was very obvious to me from the second chapter of HBP that Snape was DD's man, but a lot of people--perhaps close to a majority of readers--thought that Snape was either out for himself or completely behind Voldemort and loving all the killing and torturing and such.

We were all supposed to be blown away by the twist in the next chapter.

So, JKR most likely didn't want tip people off by having Harry or Hermione treat Snape with ordinary human decency.

Part One

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

--- “I think I outgrew Fred.”

Easy to do as the twins never grew up. I didn’t even like George much, because he was only better in comparison to Fred which isn’t saying much. I agree that they were fun in the early books and unpleasant in the later books. That would be ok if they their come-uppance at the end of Book 6 with Bill lying mutilated through their lack of concern. Instead they joined that large group of characters whose personalities collapsed during the series.

Neville was just about the only character that grew to become something special, which I enjoyed, but didn’t believe for one minute. Ron was lucky amongst the key characters in not being too messed up mostly because JKR didn’t *try* to make him ‘good’. Sadly Harry, Hermione, Ginny, the Twins, Remus, Mrs Weasley, Dumbles, Tonks, Draco, Lucius, Professor McGonagall, Krum, and Luna were, to varying degrees not quite so lucky. I don’t even mean because they were unlikeable, either. I’m happy with Dumbles turning out to be a manipulative old dog - far more interesting that twinkly old grandfather figure - but his actions made NO SENSE. Unless he was also a spy, unknown to Snape. (My brand new theory!)

Talking of which, that enigmatic gentleman was stitched up as well. He survived longer than most because the characters JKR disliked seemed more interesting than her manufactured brand of ‘heroes’. I certainly didn’t expect or want to feel any compassion for Voldie at all – I just wanted him to be a hard-core b*stard throughout – but she wrote him as a pussy, just when he needed to at his strongest. Her biggest failure, even worse than the plot, was with the characterization.

--- “Then Voldemort is interrupted by Lucius, who is sitting in ragged clothing in the darkest corner of the room, sporting a black eye he got when Voldemort killed all other Death Eaters earlier in the day.”

Narcissa risking it all for Draco was good – Lucius was a big yawn. Anyway, why on earth would Voldemort make someone side-along-apparate Lucius there? Wouldn’t he be an obvious candidate for desertion, or even treachery? At least the Order would have given him a wand.


---“ That reminds me. When the wall expoded and killed Fred, Harry was “bleeding copiously” from some wound (probably a gash on his cheek). What happened? When did he stop bleeding?”

Maybe Madame Pomfrey returned from the evacuation and healed him, before starting to plant this year’s strawberries which was probably next on her ‘to do’ list.

Re: Part One

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Narcissa risking it all for Draco was good – Lucius was a big yawn. Anyway, why on earth would Voldemort make someone side-along-apparate Lucius there? Wouldn’t he be an obvious candidate for desertion, or even treachery? At least the Order would have given him a wand

Yeah, Lucius has been a house prisoner for months now. What possible use would he be in this battle? The only reason to bring him along is to watch him suffer. Which Voldemort would have plenty of time for once he'd killed Harry Potter and ruled the world.

Of course, Bella wouldn't have a wand. Or Narcissa. So why are any of them here?

Part Two

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

---“ Harry stuns the Death Eater, and Ron punches Draco.”

I don’t condone violence, but if this was how all three of the Trio dealt with those who crossed them I’d be happier. Hermione scarred Marietta for life and it was coldly premeditated - no allowance for error or compassion. Even if I give her a pass and presume she didn’t lead Umbridge to a fate worse than death, she’s about to cooly watch Snape die. Harry, safe under the Invisibility Cloak, chose to inflict unbearable pain rather than just stun or disarm. Ron’s punch was just a foolish action when under pressure (and in shock from just losing a brother). Definitely the lesser of three evils – more human, unlike Harry and Hermione who were scarcely human at all by the end.

--- “Fortunately, Grawp appears and starts fighting with the giant attached to the foot. Which totally justifies the whole Grawp storyline. I no longer resent having to read through several tedious chapters of inter-tribal giant politics and watching Hagrid tie his little brother to trees.”

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm here?? Seriously though, Grawp was a waste of all our lives. Apparently JKR insisted that Kreacher wasn’t cut out of the OotP film – good advice, however she loses all her Brownie points because she also insisted that Grawp was kept in the film as well. All that sparkling repartee and ground-breaking cgi leading up to this magnificent climax of his gripping, shocking and frequently seductive sub-plot. I can’t wait to see it on film! OK, now *I’m* being sarcastic.

--- “Harry, as usual, is clueless about how to handle this situation. Hermione is not and conjures a flask to catch the memories in. She does this instead of other things she might have done—like stop the bleeding or treat his snake bites. Things we know she did at other times in the story.”

This is why Hermione is an even worse character than Harry. As you say, we expect nothing from him and that’s what we get. Disappointing for a hero it’s true, but better than Hermione’s relentless inconsistency. Are we supposed to forget that she healed Harry’s wounds (which the best Mediwizards struggled with in OotP) yet has now forgotten? Like she forgot ever having done Memory Charms in the Ministry fiasco despite using them to abuse her parents and make them forget her very existence a few months earlier? Or should we think she deliberately let Snape die? She didn’t even *try* to save him – just more one-upmanship in managing to conjure up a flask when Harry couldn’t.

Loved the DVD extras as per. I always thought that after seeing how Arthur almost died in OotP and as Snape was a POTIONS EXPERT, he’d come up with some magical treatment that he ALWAYS took before entering Voldie’s presence that helped the blood to clot and neutralized the poison and whatever else was necessary. He could then sit quietly, gathering strength and appear when it was all over.

That would mean that Voldie would kill Harry and in the ensuing fight, Ginny, Hermione and all the other people I couldn’t stand would be killed. Then Ron would run Voldie through with the sword and he and Neville would spend the next few years accepting the ‘gratitude’ of every loose witch in the Wizarding World. Snape would have some respect at last and settle down as DADA professor. Sigh.

Re: Part Two

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

This is why Hermione is an even worse character than Harry. As you say, we expect nothing from him and that’s what we get.

Whereas we know Hermione's capabilities as a brilliant and very capable witch? Good point, I've never thought of the treatment of her character quite like that before.

Are we supposed to forget ... healing snake wounds ... doing memory charms ...

One of the most awkward plot points of DH is that super!competent Hermione packed her bag with everything the Trio would ever need (luckily for the boys, who would have been sunk without her) ... except for that most vital of necessities, food. Which she just, uhm, forgot. Even though she remembered everything else - clothes, tent, medicine, books ... So you can add 'suddenly forgetting one of the highest-priority items anyone would think of' to that list of Hermione's plot-required inadequacies.

Allied with the reversal of Rowling's own prior canon (you can conjure sauce from your wand, sandwiches, drinks ... whups, no, sorry, food is now an official exception to magical conjuration) ... this remains one of the most contrived little twists in Rowling's plot. I guess she really, really needed Ron to be hungry before his betrayal, and couldn't think of any other way to manage it?

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

I fell behind in reading these and have been enjoying the catch-up (gosh, comments just exploded didn't they? lovely conversations to peek in on *g*). I could not avoid commenting on this bit here:

Then spiders start coming in again, causing everyone to scream and scatter.
Hagrid pushes past the Trio, trying to save his precious spiders. The precious spiders swarm him and carry him off into the forest.

This bit in the book ENRAGED me! Which is odd, given what all was going on, but... this served to underline that Hagrid was breeding dangerous and (apparently) dark magical animals in an area where they didn't belong, right up against a school. WHY were we supposed to like him? Seriously, I want to go back and laugh at every single one of Draco's jokes about Hagrid. Loudly. And right in Harry's face. Because Hagrid sucks and I really, really wanted those spiders to kill him. [/rant] Whew. Well, I feel better. :)

The most remarkable thing about DH, for me, is how carefully and completely JKR managed to destroy (almost) every single character, and every single magical element of her world. (Never have I read a magical type tale that made me feel contempt for magic. I suppose that's a mark of some sort of skill? *ponders*)

Thank you so much for doing this reread, Montavilla. I've been enjoying them immensely, if not always punctually. ;)

[oryx_leucoryx]

Acromantula are class XXXXX creatures according to Scamander's book. Keeping baby Aragog in the castle was a good enough reason to expel Hagrid (though it should have been obvious that neither Myrtle nor the petrified victims in the hospital wing were attacked by him). Of course a transformed werewolf is also a class XXXXX creature and all Albus ever did to keep wereRemus from his fellow students was place him behind a tree (that could be stopped) without any kind of physical barrier or restrain.

Fluffy does not appear in Scamander's book, but his classification would be high enough. Dragons are XXXXX as well. Skrewts have no classification because they are illegally bred new creatures - Hagrid let students care for them when he had no idea what they needed, how they behaved or anything else about them. Of the permanent staff Hagrid is the most dangerous teacher (directly; as his and others' enabler Dumbledore ranks higher).