PoA Chapter Three

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Sure enough, a few streets away Harry collapses, unable to pull his trunk. Soon he’s panicking since he’s got nowhere to go and has just done serious magic that’s against the law. I’m sure by the end of the series Harry will have learned to control these kinds of impulsive outbursts. It’s not like he’ll come close to killing someone or throw any Crucios or be complimented for same.

While he waits for a deus ex machina, Harry indulges in another “life as an outcast” fantasy. These fantasies actually work early in the series, though, because he still believably feels genuinely powerless.

Props to Harry for his plan to bewitch his trunk, tie it to his broom, cover himself with the cloak and fly to London. Try to imagine DH Harry coming up with a plan that practical and proactive. It can’t be done.

This scene where Harry and Sirius first come face to face is surprisingly touching when you know the end. Except shouldn’t Sirius be stalking the Weasleys instead? Maybe he was just pulled in Harry’s direction because everything revolves around him eventually.

The Knight Bus appears, run by a teenaged, pimply Stan Shunpike, future Death Eater.

Stan drops his professional manner and starts talking in a cockney accent. With a delightful speech pattern like that he could never be evil!

Harry gives his name as Neville Longbottom, which is, like, symbolic because Neville could have been the prophecy boy. And also because we now know that Neville is much more heroic.

Let’s think about Stan for a minute here, since he did become kind of a confusing character for people like me who think the good guys are very often nuts. The only thing we know about Stan’s politics is that he once “bragged” to a girl that he was a DE. Which would indicate he thinks that’s something impressive. But everyone on the good side seemed to dismiss the idea he could be straight off—why? Because Stan’s stupid and bumbling? Aren’t many DEs the same? Because he has an accent and speaks in slang? Like Crabbe and Goyle? Why are people like Harry so convinced he couldn’t join Voldemort based on a few conversations as he drove a bus? Harry’s offended anyone would even investigate him.

Stan refers to the Muggles contemptuously as “Them.” Nope, no possible bigotry there.

Okay, to be fair, being contemptuous of people for not having magic isn’t considered bigotry in this universe. After all, Muggles really are inferior. And they really don’t notice nuffink, they don’—especially when it’s magically invisible. And if they do notice, they don’t remember they did once they’ve been memory charmed. Idiots.

Harry recognizes Sirius from the Muggle news. Again—who is this boy? He saw that news report a week ago. DH Harry can’t place a picture of Grindelwald from one chapter to the next.

Sirius is the most infamous prisoner ever? Is that just because everyone Harry knows must be described in exaggerated terms? Given what we see Wizards do it doesn’t seem like he should be that big a deal.

I love the little dig at Muggle guns here: “a kind of metal wand that Muggles use to kill each other”—as if Wizards don’t use wooden wands to do everything but kill each other several times a day. Muggles are just so violent.

Harry thinks Sirius looks like a vampire. Must be because he’s the sexiest of the Marauders.

Sirius allegedly murdered 13 people with one curse. Kind of puts Avada Kedavra to shame, doesn’t he? How come the DEs weren’t throwing those around in the final battle? Or at the MoM?

Come on, nobody mentions that Sirius was James Potter’s best friend? Wouldn’t that be part of the story any time it was told? Given how interested people allegedly are in the minutia of Harry’s life you’d think all the stories would include that. But it’s like everyone’s interested in Harry and not at all interested in anybody with any relationship to him except briefly Hermione. (And even she gets forgotten soon enough.)

Harry refers to Hagrid as one of the bravest people he knows. Hmmm. He’s also the stupidest. I think the two are related.

Of course Hagrid’s braveness will be outstripped by Snape, the bravest man Harry ever knew blah blah blah.

Harry worries on the bus about whether he’ll be put in jail for what he did. In a shocking twist, no one immediately appears to take the focus off his own wrongdoing and put it on someone wronging him. He actually sits there thinking that he’s in trouble without drowning it in thoughts of how justified he was and the pleasure he feels at Aunt Marge’s suffering. Who is this kid?

I guess part of growing up is growing out of that childish notion that everyone might not validate your rightness all the time.

Don’t worry, this Harry hasn’t gone completely insane. He’s not, like, worried about Aunt Marge or feeling disturbed by the loss of control, whatever the cause. He’s not disturbed by the kind of violence his rage wrought or planning to control himself in the future. But just the fact that he’s expecting punishment without getting all the more angry and therefore getting even angrier at Aunt Marge herself is, well, strange for Harry.

Fudge assures Harry Marge’s memory has been modified. For some reason they don’t modify the Dursleys’ memories. As badly as the Dursleys behave, they do somehow get themselves better treatment than most Muggles. Maybe constantly lobotomizing the Dursleys would be too creepy even for JKR.

Harry actually reminds Fudge he ought to be punished. Just think about that for a second. Harry’s reminded someone he *ought to be punished.*

Fudge explains that justice in the Wizarding World is completely based on who you know and what they need from you at the moment, and right now Fudge wants to suck up to him. Harry’s fragile sense of accountability gives up the ghost, never to be seen again.

The shocks just keep coming. Harry thinks it’s unusual that the Minister of Magic would get involved in a matter of underage magic. By DH he’d find it odd if the Minister of Magic wasn’t involved in anything Harry did.

Fudge refuses to sign Harry’s permission slip for Hogsmeade, though, because he’s not his parent or guardian and rules are rules even if laws are suggestions. W.T.F.?

I’m assuming his refusal is really a hint that he’s trying to keep him at school because of Sirius, but I love that it can be hidden because this is actually believable in this world, that the MoM would have powers that extend to arbitrarily applying laws to suit himself, but not so far as to signing school permission slips.

Hedwig’s waiting for Harry. She’s a very smart owl. Just not smart enough to ditch Harry before she gets killed.


Things that happen twice:

We hear again about Hedwig being an awesome pet who loves Harry because of the animal theme—a theme that also applies to Sirius the animagus too.

Harry dreams of a life of woe after his mistake, much like he did in PS/SS after he went after Neville’s Rememberall.

This is the second time Harry gets hauled in for underaged magic so that we can see that Fudge is giving him special treatment.

The first of many false name scenes. This time Harry gives his name as Neville Longbottom, the other boy born at the end of July to people who thrice defied Voldemort.

By the end of this chapter Harry has already worried far more about getting in trouble for accidentally blowing up Aunt Marge than he worried about accidentally eviscerating Malfoy. For those who think he shows no development.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!

Stan Shunpike
Status: If you think it was fired you're probably a bad guy. He's so obviously innocent!
Stan winds up some sort of poster child for unfair arrests, but might also be one of the few people in Potter history arrested while actually being guilty.

Sirius Black
Status: Fired.
Remember when his name was mentioned in PS/SS? Bang!

Ripper
Status: Fired.
When Snape sees this memory in Harry’s head we can totally say, OMG, I remember that story about Ripper from back in PoA!





Atomic Grenade
Invented by Peter Pettigrew, apparently.

"Fruit Cart, Fruit Cart!"
I’m sure plenty of fruit went rolling when the carts jumped out of the way of the Knight Bus.

Idiot World
Seriously, the Minister of Magic shouldn’t be getting involved in cases of underage magic. Yes, even if the kid was involved with some weirdness involving Voldemort or is possibly being stalked by the prisoner you’re trying to capture only for some reason you don’t just tell him that.

IITS
I guess maybe Peter just never taught the other DEs how to easily take out a dozen people with one spell without even aiming at them.

Nut o’ Fun
If Harry’s got to sit and stew about his problems, he might as well do it in a purple bus with magical powers.

Jabutoo Score: 5

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It is kind of interesting to realize how the magic shifts--mostly I guess because of course it was never planned out in a way to get everybody more adept at magic. Like, in many fantasy books you'd have a progression going somewhere. Here it's just kind of mimicking a school year with everybody learning...stuff. The closest we get to a class that actually seems harder or more advanced is the NEWT Potions, but even there they're pretty much doing the same things.

My favorite is always the Patronus, which of course gets introduced in this book, because sometimes it's supposed to be way hard to the point where people are impressed Harry can produce a corporal one in OotP (oddly not so much in PoA when he does it in front of a crowd...), at the same time Harry himself is teaching a roomful of students to do them, and most of the students are pretty average. Meanwhile according to JKR the Patronus is "so advanced" they don't even teach it at Hogwarts, the only school. So why do most characters have one? I think on her website somebody asked what Draco's was and she said he'd have no idea how to produce one--maybe even wouldn't know what one was? But Aberforth and Umbridge and Ernie are zapping them around no problem? Why is it so advanced?

Re: Sirius I do think it's definitely about keeping the secret. I mean, the whole book really turns on it. First he's just a crazy murderer. Then Harry learns he's after him. Then he learns he killed his parents/was his dad's best friend. But it's only in that one conversation that McGonagall suddenly starts talking about them as people she knew well as students. She's all "they were never apart!" Wouldn't that have been in all the papers?

[oryx_leucoryx]

The Patronus was used originally to repel dementors and since 1782 also Lethifolds. Up until POA the only people exposed to dementors were Azkaban prisoners, jailers and some Ministry workers dealing with dangerous prisoners. So perhaps it was a spell normally learned and used only by people in those Ministry positions (Umbridge's Patronus protects other courtroom staff but they don't conjure their own ones). Dumbledore adapted the spell to serve for sending messages and taught the modified spell to the Order members. Most people have no idea what a Patronus is when they see Harry's in the Quidditch game (or Dumbledore's in the previous game, for that matter). Later Harry teaches the DA (and maybe in DH they practiced it when Hogsmeade got swarmed with them). Casting a Patronus isn't actually that hard but being able to cast it under adverse conditions, such as while being attacked by dementors, is.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I guess because of course it was never planned out in a way to get everybody more adept at magic.

Yes. Rowling never bothered to think out her magic, to give it any structure. Except for the thing about non-verbal spells in sixth year, which seemed to be something 'advanced' for a senior class to learn ... but that was dropped after that book. I wonder why she introduced that, when everyone in the wizarding world were back at 4th year level in DH? Am I forgetting something critical to the story of HBP? Because the whole 'non verbal spellcasting' thing would fit in beautifully as another Rowling one-book wonder.

Yes, the Patronus, which we're led to believe is super-colossal-awesome in PoA, isn't that big a deal really, everyone can do them - Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ernie, Justin, Luna, Cho, James, Lily, Snape, Remus, Tonks, Dumbledore, Arthur, Umbridge, Kingsley, Aberforth ... so I'd say your 'according to JKR' thing is just another bit of extraneous non-book nonsense, something she said without due regard for her canon or even memory of it.

(I think she once said that 'none of the death eaters' could cast a Patronus - they're all EVIL, natch - but she forgot about Snape. And Umbridge, who was certainly death eater class.)

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Bellatrix casts a non-verbal AK in HBP (in ch. 2), but for some reason Voldemort uses the incantation. Even Molly can kill with a nonverbal spell, but LV can't?

[kitrinlu.livejournal.com]

Voldie's a bit of a drama queen though - maybe he just likes the shouting?

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the magic just plain stopped developing after this book. We got a few more spell names in GoF, but other than Accio, none of them seem to have made much impression on Rowling when she had to think of any later. And it's all very well for her to stand there on her hind legs and declaim that "magic doesn't solve your problems!" But it's a bit rich when you refuse to let a wizard actually know any magic that serves a practical use. The big magical challenge of OotP was the skill that Harry *wouldn't* learn, and it was all downhill from there.

And we still don't know whether you actually need to be holding a wand in order to Apparate.

But yeah, why *was * Padfoot down in Surrey when the Weasleys were off in Ottery-St. Catchpole? Had he already been there and they weren't back from Egypt yet, so he decided to check on Harry?

Speaking of which:

>She's all "they were never apart!" Wouldn't that have been in all the papers?<

About the only thing that might go some way toward explaining it is that the Ministry put a gag on the Prophet at the time. They had the perp, they were absolutely convinced he was the one, and he wasn't ever coming back. A fine write-up of how wonderful the Ministry's Aurors were (since, face it, they don't seem to have been all that effective in taking Voldemort out of the picture), and then put a cork in it. "Don't worry, be happy! It's safe now!"

And the public was demoralized enough to not want to ask questions -- which no one was about to answer

But then the timing, and handling, of the whole issue is such that apart from attention directed at a symbolic (and conveniently absent) Boy-Who-Lived, the whole nasty business might have been induced to slip through the cracks. After all, who was left alive to make an issue of it? Other than Remus Lupin, that is. Can you see Remus making an issue of it? *Did* we see Remus making an issue of it?

Instead we are given an impression of an immediate circus of DE trials as soon as Tom was gone -- which doesn't really seem to fit what we actually *know*. No one in the Ministry on the morning of November 1, 1981 had any more idea of who was or wasn't a DE than they had the day before.

So it could have only been once people like Karkaroff decided to buy their way out of Azkaban by giving the Ministry names, and any additional names that turned up in the investigation of *those* that got DE trials. And Sirius Black was inside already by then. And consequently, he was old news. There was so much fresher scandal to occupy the public eye, and Rita's pen.

Ergo, while there was a whole sentimental cult that sprang up over "poor little Harry Potter", and I'm sure there was a tasteful memorial write-up of poor brave Peter Pettigrew, and his poshumous Order of Merlin, I don't really think that Sirius Black's arrest and imprisonment got much space in the Prophet at all (and the Black Family probably saw to it that what there was got hidden on a back page).

If anyone had believed that the was innocent it would have been different. But by the time the knives were out, and the media was in place he was already mostly forgotten, and once the Longbottom Affair hit the fan the Black family couldn't hush that up and everything had spun out of control to the point that the whole WW had had enough of DEs and anyone who had anything to do with them. Including the people who were still trying to find and punish them.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Instead we are given an impression of an immediate circus of DE trials as soon as Tom was gone -- which doesn't really seem to fit what we actually *know*. No one in the Ministry on the morning of November 1, 1981 had any more idea of who was or wasn't a DE than they had the day before.

It is hard to understand what criteria were used to decide to arrest or release suspected DEs. On the one hand we have Sirius, arrested without trial (though Dumbledore did give some kind of evidence against him, probably specifically about him being the Potters' chosen Secret Keeper), on the other hand there is Nott, whom Dumbledore identified as DE as far back as 1956-7, who managed to get cleared. So what gives?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

In that case I tend to think the throughline is that evil people are always so sneaky and get off because the good guys are disadvantages, where good people are at the mercy of the corrupt system.

[tevye-cat.livejournal.com]

Where are you getting the timeline for Nott? I haven't heard any of this. Is it from an interview, or something? Sorry to just jump in here, but I'm genuinely curious.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Albus mentions Nott and a couple of other supposed DEs staying at the Hogs Head with Tom when Tom came to ask for the DADA post.

Of course we don't even know whether they had started even calling themselves DEs back then.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Nott was one of the DEs who was at the Hog's Head when Tom Riddle was interviewing for the DADA job with Dumbledore, shortly after the latter became headmaster. The time of this interview is probably the winter of 1956-7 based on Minerva's statement that in December 1995 she will have been teaching for 39 years. If you think the date when Minerva started teaching is unrelated to Dumbledore becoming headmaster (for instance if Dumbleodre taught a different subject for a while) then the interview can be placed later, but in any case it took place shortly after Tom's return to the country and before the war even started officially.

[tevye-cat.livejournal.com]

Okay, I remember that whole Hog's Head thing, but I in no way remember Albus testifying against anyone and them getting off in the 1950s. The only Death Eater trials I can remember being mentioned in canon are after Voldemort gets himself vaporized. That's what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. And, didn't Albus refer to them sarcastically as Tom's 'friends' in that scene? I don't think they were openly calling themselves Death Eaters at that point anyway.

[oryx_leucoryx]

OK, so Dumbledore knew Nott was a Death Eater whenever it was that Voldemort interviewed (the name of the organization was already in use back then) and in GOF Fudge says Nott was cleared. Which means he was investigated at some point. And Dumbledore was member of the Wizengamot. So either he kept mum (why?) or he said what he knew and it still wasn't enough. Perhaps Nott's story was that he was a member when he was much younger and he left or something, and there was no evidence of recent involvement by him.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

The only thing that makes sense is that revealing the thruth about the marauder's school years would ruin the whole plot.

People in Stalin's Soviet gossiped more than the wizworld. Not only is the Potters never talked about, and they even had a bloody statue up. No-one talks about school at home. It's a small community - it would be impossible to keep anything secret.

Had the wizworld been like the Muggle one every child would know about the Potters, from their friends and enemies,tho what grades they got at school. Everyone would know about DD's family as well.
sure, some things aren't told in front of children, but children overhear. And older kids tell the younger.

Actually, had they been Muggles, Ron would have told Harry loads about Hogwarts on that very first train ride, things he'd picked up from his brothers. And on his first day, Harry would have been approached by some child to some old friend of James&Lily.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>Actually, had they been Muggles, Ron would have told Harry loads about Hogwarts on that very first train ride, things he'd picked up from his brothers. And on his first day, Harry would have been approached by some child to some old friend of James&Lily.<

But that's really the hidden question, isn't it? *Did* James and Lily have all that many friends?

Lily supposedly did. Although it took us all the way to the "Prince's Tale" chapter to even discover one name. But, on consideration, I frankly don't think James did. He was "popular" in that everyone knew who e was, and many of them looked up to him, or envied him, but I think he moved inside his own little charmed circle with Sirius Black, and hadn't really much time for anyone he didn't also have to share a dorm with for 10 months of the year. Much like the twins and Lee Jordan. Apart from the rest of the Quidditch team, the twins scacely can be observed to speak to anyone they aren't trying to use as guinea pigs.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

He may not have had friends, but he was head boy and it seemed like everybody knew him and would have known Sirius was his best friend. The people they picked on alone would have remembered the guy, and all of them probably would have dined out on stories of their personal experiences knowing Harry Potter's dad and Sirius Black, notorious murderer.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Now *that* I can believe! Not *friends* but *connections*.

Yes. Harry might as well be attending Hogwarts in an invisible bubble.

And by this time it's difficult to attribute it to any kind of artistic skill, or even any kind of artistic choices on Rowling's part. We could and did back when the book came out. But by now the overwhelming build-up of social implausibility just makes you wonder about how socially naieve the woman is.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

The only thing that makes sense is that revealing the thruth about the marauder's school years would ruin the whole plot.

That's the essence of it, isn't it? Another slab of common sense sacrificed to set up Rowling's artificial plot.

I love this thread examining all of the gossip/ways that Harry should have learnt about his family way beyond it was revealed as the BIG SURPRISE!! in this book.

[oryx_leucoryx]

So it could have only been once people like Karkaroff decided to buy their way out of Azkaban by giving the Ministry names, and any additional names that turned up in the investigation of *those* that got DE trials.

Since in GOF Voldemort only threatens Karkaroff and Severus we know that if there was anyone else that person was dead by then.

It looks like having someone, even if that one was Dumbledore, say 'X is a Death Eater' was not enough for lasting imprisonment, they did need some kind of specific crime with which to accuse the person. That may have been why it took Moody 6 months to finally arrest Karkaroff (he was arrested around July-August 1981, so the original tip-off about him came around January-February, consistent with it coming from the newly turned Severus). But in HBP mere suspicion got 3 people arrested (with no trial) for months.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

That is a good point. Evidently Rookwood was very centrally placed in the DE heierarchy and when they started investigating him (since his was about the only name Karkaroff gave them that they didn;t already know about) rather a lot of things started unraveling.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the rumors and newspaper articles were more of Dumbledore's manipulations, but then the question is, what did Dumbledore have to gain by letting people think Voldemort was dead and by making Harry famous, and thus not safe? The cynic in me says Dumbledore gained followers who became alienated from the larger society and thus more dependent on him. Similarly, by seeing to it that Sirius Black was secured in Azkaban and then Grimmauld Place, Dumbledore insured Harry had no magical family to counter Dumbledore's influence.

Or maybe Rowling never had an explanation for the missing 24 hours. This was one of the holes I wish she had filled in DH. Or maybe not, considering what we got.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Nope, no explanation on the missing 24-hours. Rowling just can't count.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Or maybe Rowling never had an explanation for the missing 24 hours.

In her Pottercast appearance after DH she still wasn't sure there *were* 24 lost hours. She said she'd look it up for the 'Scottish Book', and there will either be the story of what happened or an explanation of why those hours aren't really lost. IOW she still had no idea.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

(Catching up with old posts. Yoiks! This was two weeks ago!)

I detested Rowling's seemingly overwhelming need to (a) enforce her non-canon views on readers and (b) make up answers on the spot (which contradicted her own canon) but I'll grant you it was funny to watch her try and patch up her errors and pat herself on the back retroactively.

I never listened to the Pottercast appearance - I think I would have died from overexposure to sycophantic worship o' Jo. Since you apparently survived the experience ... :-) ...

Can you point me to any summaries of the broadcast? Any critiques? Or even a straight transcript? Cheers.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The highlights can be found on Accio-Quote 2007 just scroll down to Dec 17. There's a link to a transcript.