PoA Chapter Seven

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Malfoy returns to class acting as if he’s the survivor of some heroic battle. Which only Harry actually is, btw.

Even more shocking, Malfoy is marginally interested in girls when he plays the part of stoic sufferer to Pansy. Draco’s such a Mama’s boy.

Snape tells the class to settle down and Harry and Ron indignantly think about how if they’d walked in late they’d have gotten detention because Malfoy’s allowed to get away with anything in Snape’s class. Okay, hold on. No he isn’t. Nobody is. The Trio’s actually probably got a worse record in Snape’s class than Malfoy does—he likes Snape so he behaves.

And here, he hasn’t actually done anything wrong. Even if Snape would have given detention to Harry and Ron here, he’d have been wrong to do so. So it’s not like Malfoy’s getting away with anything.

Malfoy does display enough intelligence to annoy Ron. But that doesn’t take much.

Draco drawls to Snape that he needs something else done so Harry has to do it. If I was Harry or Ron here I’d have started laughing too by this point. Draco’s being a dick, but just the little stinker kind. Ron and Harry react to him like he’s being evil.

This book is generally a favorite because the Sirius reveal is great. But that gives JKR the problem of having no real villain, since Sirius isn’t trying to hurt Harry and neither is Peter. So she comes up with the Buckbeak story instead. Only the Buckbeak story is a non-issue, because it’s basically the story of an inept guy given a teaching position through favoritism who shouldn’t be hiding behind a bunch of kids to save his ass anyway. And that means the villain role falls to a kid whose crime is making a mistake in class and being unsympathetic about the consequences. Even the innocent animal isn’t innocent since it attacks Draco for the same reasons everyone else in canon does.

Harry’s shaking with anger now because Draco says his father’s made complaints about Hagrid. Even if I didn’t like Draco I couldn’t think of this as some huge injustice that Hagrid’s job is in trouble, especially when I know Hagrid is a bad teacher who can’t be fired because of Dumbledore.

This is why the series often depends on seemingly unimportant things like loving Hagrid. If you don’t see Hagrid being fired any differently than Harry sees Trelawney being fired, it’s hard to get worked up.

Oh! Here’s that big moment where Snape threatens to poison Trevor and totally would have done it too because he’s evil! I really don’t think the scene’s meant to be taken as seriously as Ron and Harry take everything in it. Even little kids get that Snape isn’t really going to poison the toad. In the next book he’s threatening to poison everybody.

Seamus reports Sirius has been sighted by a Muggle who thinks he’s just an ordinary criminal. Which he actually is. Okay yeah, he’s a wizard, but get over yourselves, guys. There are Muggles who have killed more people at once than Sirius.

I love the way Malfoy’s such a pariah amongst the heroes that whenever he’s needed as part of the story he’s always got to be forcing himself into a conversation between people who are glaring at him and wishing him dead.

Luckily Malfoy’s face is always twisting into various positions of “malicious,” “mean,” “nasty,” and “malevolent” so we know they’re just reacting to him like the cowardly demon he is. He should really be perched on Harry’s shoulder like an imp.

Can’t help but imagine what Ron and Harry look like from Draco’s pov. I suppose various stages of “morally outraged,” “righteously angry,” “heroically protective,” and “Crucio-level indignant.”

Draco’s bad jokes always have to over-played so Harry can notice (as if he’s not always checking Draco out), but give him a really dramatic moment and the boy knows how to play it just right. He draws Harry into the truth about Sirius “quietly,” “breathing” his lines instead of speaking them. And people wonder why H/D is so popular?

Still, why is Draco the only person telling Harry this story? Besides the obvious meta-reasons? Just like in GoF, Draco’s actually surprised that he knows more about Harry’s life than Harry does. Presidents of the fanclub probably often do!

Also, Hermione pops in and out of the scene after class, because she just Time Traveled. Despite knowing that Time Turners exist, and that they live in a world of magic, it doesn’t occur to Ron to think Hermione’s done anything magical. After all, it wouldn’t be OOC for her to have started Apparating early. (If Hermione heard that theory we all know she’d tell them you can’t Apparate inside Hogwarts.)

Lupin tells them to put away their books, which by now we know is code for “good teacher.”

Lupin mentions Filch, whom the narrator tells us is constantly waging a war against the students. By grumbling at them as he cleans up their messes.

Can’t wait until Harry starts heroically hexing the guy in a few years to put him in his place. Uppity squib janitors are the worst!

Snape leaves the teacher’s lounge when they come in, taking care to get in a last shot at Neville for letting Hermione help him in Potions. Well, really so that Lupin has a sense of what’s going on with Neville so he can give him some of that confidence that is the basis for all ability in good people.

Lupin might have thought he was out of practice humiliating Snape but 20 years later, Moony’s still got it!

Harry finds it hard to answer with Hermione bobbing up and down on the balls of her feet and waving her hand next to him. Hee! Hermione was so cute. A little young for 14 (which she would be by this point) but still.

I once did a post on how books 3-6 are like one book for each house? And this one’s totally the Gryffindor book, so there’s a big theme about courage. Hagrid’s class required some already, but now we’ve got a Boggart, which is pretty entirely about being able to laugh at fear.

A lot of people used to point to Snape’s being Neville’s boggart as proof that Snape really was Satan as a teacher, since he’s beating out every other fear for a kid whose parents were tortured into insanity. To me it more just says that Neville didn’t witness his parents’ torture and he’s had a relatively normal life so has a normal kid fear of a mean teacher.

I love that Harry can’t even think of how to make a Dementor less frightening. Because Nazgul rip-offs are just so terrifying they can’t be funny. Start with a pair of tap shoes and a hoodie and work from there Harry, jeez. Family Guy got a whole character out of it.

Heh. That reminds me of a LOTR fic. I think it was called “The Littlest Nazgul” where Frodo did become a wraith. The other Nazgul were annoyed at having to get him a black pony, and the fact that he called the pony Mushroom.

Seamus’ greatest fear is of course a banshee. If you cut Seamus open every Irish stereotype in the world would spill out.

Lupin’s boggart was the moon, of course.

And again with the courage theme, Harry’s still obsessing over his humiliating faint on the train and thinks Lupin kept him from facing the boggart because he didn’t trust him not to faint again.

I’m going to give some props to Lavender here for wondering why Lupin’s afraid of crystal balls. And JKR for calling attention to it without really calling attention to it.


Things happening twice:
While Ron and Hermione don’t get why, Harry becomes actually interested in Draco when he starts talking about taking action in revenge for your family, which will happen again in HBP.
Harry will also have the urge to show off for Cho the same way Malfoy is here. It just takes him a couple of years.
A Boggart shows up again in OotP.
Neville seems to have as much trouble as Draco when it comes to listening in class, and Potions has been known to also cause violent accidents. Only here it’s not Neville’s fault.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!
Lupin’s boggart
Since Lavender brings our attention to it, and we hear about everyone else’s, it’s got to be something.
Status: Fired with a mighty bang!
Malfoy’s cryptic remarks
He says if it were his family he wouldn’t just go to school like a good boy.
Status: Fired—he actually would take some action.

OMG, Hermione didn’t get to face her boggart!
What if she has to face one in the future?
Status: Fired, but harmlessly. I can’t remember if it’s at the end of this year or during her OWLS, but she can’t do it right. She should have just thought to make McGonagall’s face break out in pustules that said “Old Maid” or something.





Misdirected Answering
I know the Boggart class was an elaborate set up for a couple of things, but I don’t remember Boggarts ever really being important. Especially once the big tragic scene in OotP points out that adult fears tend to be a lot harder to make funny.

Jabootu Score: 1

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Wait, so Neville being afraid of Snape meant that Neville was really expressing a fear of his family? Or--oh, I think I see. You mean that Neville was exceptionally scared of Snape because he'd been conditioned to expect violent treatment from people trying to make him perform well magically. Snape gets frustrated and yells and Neville has good reason to think he'll next be tossing him out the window?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Here's that bit of the scene:


“Right, Neville,” said Professor Lupin. “First things first: what would you say is the thing that frightens you most in the world?”

Neville’s lips moved, but no noise came out.

“I didn’t catch that, Neville, sorry,” said Professor Lupin cheerfully.

Neville looked around rather wildly, as though begging someone to help him, then said, in barely more than a whisper, “Professor Snape.”

Nearly everyone laughed. Even Neville grinned apologetically. Professor Lupin, however, looked thoughtful.
“Professor Snape…hmmm…Neville, I believe you live with your grandmother?”

“Er — yes,” said Neville nervously. “But — I don’t want the Boggart to turn into her either.”

“No, no, you misunderstand me,” said Professor Lupin, now smiling. “I wonder, could you tell us what sort of clothes your grandmother usually wears?”

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It does link the two there, doesn't it. I mean, if Ron or Harry had said "I don't want the boggart to turn into Mum/Aunt Petunia" it would have been more of a joke. But Neville does seem to not want to face his gran when she's angry either. I don't think he's saying that he's scared of her the way he is of Snape, but probably that he doesn't like facing her when she's not happy. We know she dominates him.

Also the class laughs when he says Snape, I think because they both get why Neville would be afraid and no that it's not so serious it can't be laughed at.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Well, that or he's used to laughing at himself to encourage his house-mates forgive his flaws.

[anaid-rabbit.livejournal.com]

Whenever he encounters anybody who isn't grovelling and pulling his forlock in abject admiration, Harry thinks that person thinks he's better than him. Any criticism, and that person is Evuhl and Harry Hates Him ForEvah.
I`ve always been convinced Harry suffers from NPD (and maybe Rowling?). Reacting with hostility to anything less than continuous praise is a narc`s specialty. Given Harry`s loveless upbringing, it makes even more sense.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

I'm curious: Dumbledore (and Rowling), of course, is obvious - but why Lily?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

The Lily/Snape scenario comes across as a lot less insanely dangerous to me. To me it looks like Lily doesn't charm Snape to get information from him. Their friendship is just based on the fact that they're both wizards. Snape knows everything about the WW and Lily knows nothing, and Snape enjoys being able to teach her things. When Snape does something Lily doesn't like she gets angry at him and says so. Once they get to school Lily naturally makes other friends as well.

Yes, Lily herself makes her own questionable friendships by starting to like James, who we've seen be a bully. And I think her almost-smile at the sight of Snape upside down says that her sense of humor isn't so far from his, and perhaps the only reason she made such a show of hating him earlier on was because he attacked somebody she considered her own and an innocent.

But Snape did join the DEs. Whether or not he did it more to impress Lily than out of a pure hatred of Muggleborns, it's still joining the DEs whose express purpose is against Muggleborns, which Lily is. (Personally, I actually do take Snape's hesitation about whether Lily can be Slytherin and his dismissals of Petunia as a sign that he had been exposed to anti-Muggle/Muggleborn prejudice already even before Hogwarts, but he was obviously well able to reject it at that point.)

I think there are signs that things go unfairly for Snape--for instance, the way Lily seems to wind up thinking he should be grateful to James for the Prank (which was revealed to be a lot of Snape's doing anyway). I don't think I'd be able to be friends with someone who thought it was funny that I was turned upside down that way. But I also wouldn't be friends with somebody who called me a Mudblood the way Snape does to Lily in the scene.

It just seems to me that however Snape loved her and felt like he was willing to do anything for her, Lily didn't just abandon him when he was no longer useful for her. It seems like she stuck with him long after he was useful to her (and even before that wasn't only interested in him for what he was providing her). She didn't even really need him pre-Hogwarts since she'd have done just as well showing up as a novice.

I don't think Lily comes out like a saint in the situation at all, but to me she comes across as a pretty average girl--one who's popular and can be unfair or hypocritical, but the only time she comes across to me as doing Snape wrong is when she seems to be fighting back that smile when James is bullying him.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Snape wasn't a hater of Muggleborns as a child. He's friends with Lily knowing she's a Muggleborn early on. He also thinks she's fantastic. I think he had been exposed to bigoted ideas, but he doesn't consider Lily inferior. And even later on, his involvement with the DEs never seems to be based on a personal hatred of Muggleborns--but that's a big part of what the DEs are based on.

Sirius doesn't say that Voldemort has the support of most of the Wizard population. He says that "quite a few people" including his family, thought Voldemort had the "right idea about things" in wanting to "purify" the Wizarding race, get rid of Muggleborns and put Pureblods in charge--they just objected to the terror later. There's very little else Voldemort ever stood for that I remember. The DEs were just as anti-Muggleborn in the 70s.

so what is your point? Young Snape became a DE when he was 18, so retroactively, he deserved to be treated like shit by Lily?

My point is that first, their relationship did not consist of Snape being treated like shit by Lily, and second that Snape becoming a DE when he was 18 indicates that Lily was correct when she said she saw signs of him leaning that way a few years earlier.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Malcolm X (formally known as Malcolm Little - he rejected the 'slavename' Little during his activist years) preached black supremacy, segregation of races, anti-semitism and according to some, violence. To others he was a courageous advocate for the Rights of Afro-Americans.

But what sensible person could mistake Voldemort for a courageous advocate for the rights of Pureblood Wizards against the oppression of Muggleborns?

It's not about pureblood or muggleborn, it's about Slytherin and Gryffindor. *That* is the divide in the WW.

The divide we mostly see is definitely Slytherin vs. everyone else but those houses are also linked to Pureblood supremacy vs. not Pureblood supremacy. I might not agree that the books work as the plea for tolerance the author says they are, but Voldemort is pushing Pureblood supremacy.

If the story was about a young half-Black (Black mother, White father) boy in the fifties who befriende a white-trash girl, who both went to a posh school on a scholarship where the Black boy was constantly harassed, beaten up and one time even nearly lynched by a bunch of silver-spoon jocks, then joined Malcolm X out of school but turned away from politics and became a schoolteacher, would you still say that that one time angry young man's white friend was 'correct when she saw signs of leaning that way (the way of racism) a few years earlier'?

No, I wouldn't. But it's not that story. It's the story of a Half-blood wizard who's friends with a Muggleborn witch (not sure how she's white in the Malcolm X version) and an ongoing feud with a group of powerful, popular guys, at least two of whom are Purebloods, who often gang up on him and bully him. He loses her friendship after calling her a Mudblood, joins Voldemort during the first war, and in service to his victory he gets his old Muggleborn friend targetted for murder along with her family and becomes a heroic spy of the other side to try to protect her and make amends when he doesn't. I think Lily absolutely was correct when she sees signs of him leaning towards the DEs earlier.

Don't tell me that Lily was the one discriminated against. She never found any path barred to her. She was popular, feted by her teachers and married the equivalent of a Rothchild.

Voldemort is fighting to have her discriminated against as he believes she should be as a Mudblood.

If the Potter books were written by a half-able author, we would get a bit of backstory about *why* Voldemort gets a following. *Why* his message is a siren call to members of a supposedly rich and powerful group.

That would be great--many fanfics do get into that. It's frustrating to me the way the books instead just kind of shuffle different real world analogies: in PS/SS it seems to be a sort of immigrant thing where they're said to "not know our ways," then we get into the idea of dirty blood, and in DH we get the wildly strange idea that people can believe they steal magic. It's more just a given that this kind of message can be a siren call to rich and powerful groups and so it is here.

I am often creeped out by the way the Slytherins are portrayed and I do think it sometimes echoes the way certain groups are portrayed as the evil, subhuman groups by bigots. But when they side with Voldemort they still do seem to be just doing a bad thing for bad reasons. I don't think the Muggleborn discrimination thing really works usually, but it works for me in the Snape/Lily conflict better than it does anywhere else.

[oryx_leucoryx]

But Snape did join the DEs. Whether or not he did it more to impress Lily than out of a pure hatred of Muggleborns, it's still joining the DEs whose express purpose is against Muggleborns, which Lily is.

He did join eventually, but there is no reason to think he was even contemplating joining when she accused him of doing so. (Nor do we know what he thought he would be joining. Since Regulus probably joined in 1978, the same year Severus left school, and Regulus was following the news and had access to Bellatrix I doubt Severus knew more than Regulus did.)

It seems like she stuck with him long after he was useful to her

He was still useful as someone with whom to hang out with during the summer. If it hadn't been for the fight the friendship would have died a year later, once Lily had her Apparition license.

But I also wouldn't be friends with somebody who called me a Mudblood the way Snape does to Lily in the scene.

Not even if he makes a very public attempt to apologize, while risking being hexed in his sleep for the rest of his school career?

(I have recently reread Chaim Potok's 'The Chosen' and 'The Promise'. Danny Saunders injures Reuven Malter's eye in a baseball game. Danny comes to the hospital to apologize, Reuven refuses to listen to him. Reuven's father tells his son it is his religious obligation to listen to the apology and accept it. Next time Danny visits Reuven listens - and hears among other things that Danny actually entertained thoughts of bashing Reuven's head with his bat before sending the ball that struck him. Yet he forgives Danny and they form a strong friendship that is pivotal to their lives for years. I couldn't help thinking how different the Potterverse could have been with a character like David Malter - Reuven's dad - in it. The Promise also had its ironies for people familiar with the Potterverse, with mean teacher Rav Kalman being the one who talks about making choices and how much they reveal about a person. Rav Kalman is mean to students who disagree with him or aren't up to his standards but Reuven learns to be compassionate towards him because his meanness derives from wanting to protect something that is dear to him and gives meaning to his life.)

I don't think Lily comes out like a saint in the situation at all, but to me she comes across as a pretty average girl--one who's popular and can be unfair or hypocritical, but the only time she comes across to me as doing Snape wrong is when she seems to be fighting back that smile when James is bullying him.

Well I think she wrongs him several times in the post-Shack conversation, as well as in the fact that it was held at least a day late. However the degree to which she wrongs him depends on how people interpret the mysterious spell Mulciber attempted on Mary. Was Lily so convinced it was 'evil' because it was Dark and Dark is automatically evil in her eyes, or was it objectively worse than standard Hogwarts stuff? Can Dark magic be funny (at least on the Hogwarts scale of things)? Is dark Magic necessarily evil? And I think she wrongs him when she refuses to even listen to his apology. (Not being of religious bent I don't think she was obligated to accept it, but she was wrong not to give him a chance to prove his sincerity.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

He did join eventually, but there is no reason to think he was even contemplating joining when she accused him of doing so.

I thought she said that he was friends with a bunch of people who wanted to join LV and we knew he eventually did join with them. And he didn't deny that that was sort of their plan. Regulus knew about the bigotry (there isn't much more to it).

Not even if he makes a very public attempt to apologize, while risking being hexed in his sleep for the rest of his school career?

Maybe I would forgive him and still be friends. But if I thought this was a guy who was mostly friends with bigots and heard and used the term commonly around them and this was just the first time he'd used it against me I would probably still want to keep my distance. I might forgive him but still not want to be his friend. Iirc, both boys in The Chosen are Jewish.

But yes, Lily would have been a nicer (and definitely a more saintly) person if she'd listened to his apology and forgiven him. It's an imperfect friendship and they're both imperfect. Sometime's Lily's wrong in what she does or says, just as sometimes Snape is.

As for the hex on Mary yeah, I think that's one of those annoying 'OMG, Dark Magic!' moments that just doesn't hold up given how often it seems to just apply to Pranks by Slytherins while Pranks by Gryffindors are all in good fun. I, too, would love to know whether Mulciber's curse was evil because it was worse than Snape's humiliation (something Ron calls "sick" when the DEs do it iirc) or because it was done against someone Lily considered innocent and good.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I thought she said that he was friends with a bunch of people who wanted to join LV and we knew he eventually did join with them. And he didn't deny that that was sort of their plan. Regulus knew about the bigotry (there isn't much more to it).

He was friends with people with bigoted views - those were the people of his House, the ones who according to McGonagall are supposed to be his surrogate family. We do not know if their bigotry was a factor in their friendship or incidental to it. I agree it wasn't a deal-breaker for him. Likely because other than Lily he had no friends outside his House. That he didn't deny Lily's accusations of intent to join Voldemort can be taken in more than one way. Lily takes it as agreement, but it could mean he was shocked by the accusations or found them too outrageous to come up with a retort on the spot. He is quite tongue-tied in more than one spot in that exchange.

I might forgive him but still not want to be his friend. Iirc, both boys in The Chosen are Jewish.

Lily didn't even listen, and went on and put words in his mouth. Yes, both Danny and Reuven are Jewish, but they follow different interpretations of Rabbinical Judaism. Danny's sect considers people like Reuven 'Apikorsim' - heretics. The Hasidic kids at the baseball game were making death threats at the other team.

I don't necessarily expect Lily to forgive, but she was wrong not to even listen, especially when Severus was taking a risk to speak to her.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I can totally respect the pov that Lily should have listened to his apology. My point is just that I don't think her not wanting to listen to it, and instead having decided she's had it with the friendship before he even got there to apologize, taints her in the whole relationship. It seemed more like a lot of what we were shown was Snape not really getting a lot of the cracks that were starting in their relationship from her pov, so eventually she was going to break up with him even if it wasn't here.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Reading over this thread, I'm struck by how the way you describe Harry as narcissist is exactly the way Voldemort is portrayed. Voldemort makes up grandiose stories about himself. Voldemort gives himself this grand mission to achieve immortality and bends the rest of the world around that goal.

When you look at it through that type of focus, Harry and Voldemort end up being like two sides of a coin.

So... all this talk of NPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder), I had to look it up on Wikipedia. I don't claim that I understand half of what was written in the entry, but this bit stood out to me:

"Jeffrey Young, who coined the term "Schema Therapy", a technique originally developed by Aaron T. Beck (1979), also links shame to NPD. He sees the so-called Defectiveness Schema as a core schema of NPD, next to the Emotional Deprivation and Entitlement Schemas.[23] All Schemas may incorporate maladaptive coping styles, for example, the defectiveness schema may include:

Surrender: Chooses critical partners and significant others; puts him- or herself down.

Avoidance: Avoids sharing "shameful" thoughts and feelings with partners and significant others due to fear of rejection.

Overcompensation: Behaves in a critical or superior way toward others; tries to come across as perfect.

Note that an individual with this schema might not employ all three maladaptive coping responses."

Doesn't that sound like (respectively) Ron, Harry, and Hermione?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Sorry about those tags. It should read like this:

Surrender: Chooses critical partners and significant others; puts him- or herself down.

Avoidance: Avoids sharing "shameful" thoughts and feelings with partners and significant others due to fear of rejection.

Overcompensation: Behaves in a critical or superior way toward others; tries to come across as perfect.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Doesn't that sound like (respectively) Ron, Harry, and Hermione?

Yes it does! Scary.