PoA Chapter Seven

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Malfoy returns to class acting as if he’s the survivor of some heroic battle. Which only Harry actually is, btw.

Even more shocking, Malfoy is marginally interested in girls when he plays the part of stoic sufferer to Pansy. Draco’s such a Mama’s boy.

Snape tells the class to settle down and Harry and Ron indignantly think about how if they’d walked in late they’d have gotten detention because Malfoy’s allowed to get away with anything in Snape’s class. Okay, hold on. No he isn’t. Nobody is. The Trio’s actually probably got a worse record in Snape’s class than Malfoy does—he likes Snape so he behaves.

And here, he hasn’t actually done anything wrong. Even if Snape would have given detention to Harry and Ron here, he’d have been wrong to do so. So it’s not like Malfoy’s getting away with anything.

Malfoy does display enough intelligence to annoy Ron. But that doesn’t take much.

Draco drawls to Snape that he needs something else done so Harry has to do it. If I was Harry or Ron here I’d have started laughing too by this point. Draco’s being a dick, but just the little stinker kind. Ron and Harry react to him like he’s being evil.

This book is generally a favorite because the Sirius reveal is great. But that gives JKR the problem of having no real villain, since Sirius isn’t trying to hurt Harry and neither is Peter. So she comes up with the Buckbeak story instead. Only the Buckbeak story is a non-issue, because it’s basically the story of an inept guy given a teaching position through favoritism who shouldn’t be hiding behind a bunch of kids to save his ass anyway. And that means the villain role falls to a kid whose crime is making a mistake in class and being unsympathetic about the consequences. Even the innocent animal isn’t innocent since it attacks Draco for the same reasons everyone else in canon does.

Harry’s shaking with anger now because Draco says his father’s made complaints about Hagrid. Even if I didn’t like Draco I couldn’t think of this as some huge injustice that Hagrid’s job is in trouble, especially when I know Hagrid is a bad teacher who can’t be fired because of Dumbledore.

This is why the series often depends on seemingly unimportant things like loving Hagrid. If you don’t see Hagrid being fired any differently than Harry sees Trelawney being fired, it’s hard to get worked up.

Oh! Here’s that big moment where Snape threatens to poison Trevor and totally would have done it too because he’s evil! I really don’t think the scene’s meant to be taken as seriously as Ron and Harry take everything in it. Even little kids get that Snape isn’t really going to poison the toad. In the next book he’s threatening to poison everybody.

Seamus reports Sirius has been sighted by a Muggle who thinks he’s just an ordinary criminal. Which he actually is. Okay yeah, he’s a wizard, but get over yourselves, guys. There are Muggles who have killed more people at once than Sirius.

I love the way Malfoy’s such a pariah amongst the heroes that whenever he’s needed as part of the story he’s always got to be forcing himself into a conversation between people who are glaring at him and wishing him dead.

Luckily Malfoy’s face is always twisting into various positions of “malicious,” “mean,” “nasty,” and “malevolent” so we know they’re just reacting to him like the cowardly demon he is. He should really be perched on Harry’s shoulder like an imp.

Can’t help but imagine what Ron and Harry look like from Draco’s pov. I suppose various stages of “morally outraged,” “righteously angry,” “heroically protective,” and “Crucio-level indignant.”

Draco’s bad jokes always have to over-played so Harry can notice (as if he’s not always checking Draco out), but give him a really dramatic moment and the boy knows how to play it just right. He draws Harry into the truth about Sirius “quietly,” “breathing” his lines instead of speaking them. And people wonder why H/D is so popular?

Still, why is Draco the only person telling Harry this story? Besides the obvious meta-reasons? Just like in GoF, Draco’s actually surprised that he knows more about Harry’s life than Harry does. Presidents of the fanclub probably often do!

Also, Hermione pops in and out of the scene after class, because she just Time Traveled. Despite knowing that Time Turners exist, and that they live in a world of magic, it doesn’t occur to Ron to think Hermione’s done anything magical. After all, it wouldn’t be OOC for her to have started Apparating early. (If Hermione heard that theory we all know she’d tell them you can’t Apparate inside Hogwarts.)

Lupin tells them to put away their books, which by now we know is code for “good teacher.”

Lupin mentions Filch, whom the narrator tells us is constantly waging a war against the students. By grumbling at them as he cleans up their messes.

Can’t wait until Harry starts heroically hexing the guy in a few years to put him in his place. Uppity squib janitors are the worst!

Snape leaves the teacher’s lounge when they come in, taking care to get in a last shot at Neville for letting Hermione help him in Potions. Well, really so that Lupin has a sense of what’s going on with Neville so he can give him some of that confidence that is the basis for all ability in good people.

Lupin might have thought he was out of practice humiliating Snape but 20 years later, Moony’s still got it!

Harry finds it hard to answer with Hermione bobbing up and down on the balls of her feet and waving her hand next to him. Hee! Hermione was so cute. A little young for 14 (which she would be by this point) but still.

I once did a post on how books 3-6 are like one book for each house? And this one’s totally the Gryffindor book, so there’s a big theme about courage. Hagrid’s class required some already, but now we’ve got a Boggart, which is pretty entirely about being able to laugh at fear.

A lot of people used to point to Snape’s being Neville’s boggart as proof that Snape really was Satan as a teacher, since he’s beating out every other fear for a kid whose parents were tortured into insanity. To me it more just says that Neville didn’t witness his parents’ torture and he’s had a relatively normal life so has a normal kid fear of a mean teacher.

I love that Harry can’t even think of how to make a Dementor less frightening. Because Nazgul rip-offs are just so terrifying they can’t be funny. Start with a pair of tap shoes and a hoodie and work from there Harry, jeez. Family Guy got a whole character out of it.

Heh. That reminds me of a LOTR fic. I think it was called “The Littlest Nazgul” where Frodo did become a wraith. The other Nazgul were annoyed at having to get him a black pony, and the fact that he called the pony Mushroom.

Seamus’ greatest fear is of course a banshee. If you cut Seamus open every Irish stereotype in the world would spill out.

Lupin’s boggart was the moon, of course.

And again with the courage theme, Harry’s still obsessing over his humiliating faint on the train and thinks Lupin kept him from facing the boggart because he didn’t trust him not to faint again.

I’m going to give some props to Lavender here for wondering why Lupin’s afraid of crystal balls. And JKR for calling attention to it without really calling attention to it.


Things happening twice:
While Ron and Hermione don’t get why, Harry becomes actually interested in Draco when he starts talking about taking action in revenge for your family, which will happen again in HBP.
Harry will also have the urge to show off for Cho the same way Malfoy is here. It just takes him a couple of years.
A Boggart shows up again in OotP.
Neville seems to have as much trouble as Draco when it comes to listening in class, and Potions has been known to also cause violent accidents. Only here it’s not Neville’s fault.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!
Lupin’s boggart
Since Lavender brings our attention to it, and we hear about everyone else’s, it’s got to be something.
Status: Fired with a mighty bang!
Malfoy’s cryptic remarks
He says if it were his family he wouldn’t just go to school like a good boy.
Status: Fired—he actually would take some action.

OMG, Hermione didn’t get to face her boggart!
What if she has to face one in the future?
Status: Fired, but harmlessly. I can’t remember if it’s at the end of this year or during her OWLS, but she can’t do it right. She should have just thought to make McGonagall’s face break out in pustules that said “Old Maid” or something.





Misdirected Answering
I know the Boggart class was an elaborate set up for a couple of things, but I don’t remember Boggarts ever really being important. Especially once the big tragic scene in OotP points out that adult fears tend to be a lot harder to make funny.

Jabootu Score: 1

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

I don't think the "I see no difference" is typical of Severus' behavior in the books. I find all but 2-3 of his interactions with students acceptable and more. He would have been well appreciated by students and teachers alike in my highschool.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I've come to the conclusion that the "I see no difference" was probably meant to make readers dislike him. I've read some thoughts that this was not about Hermione's teeth but about her teeth v. Goyle's boils. Each condition was caused by a mis-aimed spell while the students were hexing each other in the halls against the rules. I'm tending to look at it as mis-direction, in fact, since big teeth are really not as bad as painful boils. Goyle got the worse end of the deal there but we can't be sympathetic to the Designated Bad Guys. So, the Mean Teacher is called in to make it look like the poor, innocent Good Guys are dumped on worse than the Bad Guys who "obviously" deserved it.

Snape is definitely an old-school sort of teacher, the type I grew up with. They invented Tough Love. Just try saying it, though, in a lot of places and you get accused of "condoning child abuse." I've seen child abuse. Umbridge, yes, abuse, both physical and mental. Snape? No. Scenes like the No Difference speech just look too transparently like author insertion to make us dislike him. It read, to me, like OOC.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

Snape is definitely an old-school sort of teacher, the type I grew up with. They invented Tough Love.

*** It might even have been tough love when they forced talanted-but-lazy students to do a real effort. Less lovingly when they were going after less bright students, who really did try but simply hadn't the brains.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I'm curious: why is "I see no difference" any different from Snape's behavior to Neville? It's equally out of line and, yes, abusive. I'm really not seeing the OOC there and it puzzles me that others do. Snape has a definite talent for verbal cruelty and loves to use it--that seemed evident to me from PS/SS.

Yes, JKR stacks the deck in many places to get us to hate Snape. But she also stacks the deck in his favor in a lot of ways because otherwise hating Snape would lead us to hating Dumbledore for hiring such an incompetent petty sadist. She sort of tries to have it both ways with him: yes, hate him, but don't hate him too much because he loved Lily and Dumbledore knows best and blah blah blah.

[oryx_leucoryx]

She sort of tries to have it both ways with him: yes, hate him, but don't hate him too much because he loved Lily and Dumbledore knows best and blah blah blah.

This completely ignores that Severus' fans don't necessarily care for Lily, and many are very critical of Dumbledore. I don't think Severus was a good teacher because Dumbledore hired him, I think he was a pretty good teacher because he was effective.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I'm not talking about his fans. I'm talking about what Rowling would like us to think. Snape fans look at him pretty differently from how Rowling wants us to look at him, in my observation.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I'm curious: why is "I see no difference" any different from Snape's behavior to Neville?

It would depend on whether "I see no difference" is aimed at Hermione's teeth or at the larger situation. It's ambiguous in the text. I thought for sure that it was aimed at Hermione's teeth but, on re-reading, it could equally apply to the fact that two by-standers were hexed. Going on memory here since I'm too lazy to pick my way past the toy baskets that are out because the grandson's visiting, Snape had told Goyle to go to the hospital wing and Ron and Harry started complaining about how Hermione had been hexed and Snape said, "I see no difference." He then told Hermione to go to the hospital wing.

The difference between that and Neville is that, when Snape interacts with Neville, it's obvious that he is interacting with Neville and not possibly referencing a wider situation of which Neville is only a part. When the cauldron melts, Neville is in the thick of the situation.

I'm not thrilled with Dumbledore. The last two books showed him, IMO, to be a calculating manipulator who had no regard for people. Before HBP I had been more on the track of thinking that he was akin to a general who must sacrifice people for the sake of the mission. After, when it was so obvious that he sacrificed people for the sake of keeping necessary information from them and from Harry, I revised my opinion. He was withholding information despite the needs of the mission, not for the sake of the mission. He just couldn't stand not knowing more than anybody else and to hell with whoever got killed because of it.

I thought Snape was thoroughly castrated by DHs. His attachment to Lily was pathetic, her treatment of him was disgusting. So, for me, anyway, JKR didn't succeed with the Lily love and Dumbledore trust angle, she just emasculated some representation of a teacher she didn't like from her own school days.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I don't find the alternate interpretation of "I see no difference" plausible because of the general set-up of it, the fact that he's looking at Hermione and gave that meaningful pause before saying it. It's the way a person would deliver a deliberate insult, IMO.

I agree about Lily and Dumbledore. Snape in DH was both romanticized and demeaned, at the same time.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Myself, I don't need to have an alternate interpretation of the 'no difference' remark. It is one of very few instances where he crosses the line. He has his own reasons for doing so (he is still angry with the trio for their role in Sirius' escape, he is still hurt that they didn't trust him, he is still angry for their complicity in his further injury, and right then they appear to be continuing their usual antics with Harry's participation in the Triwizard Tournament and there are all those events that may be signs for the imminent return of Voldemort) but he shouldn't have given in to them.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

It's the way a person would deliver a deliberate insult, IMO.

It's also the way a person would act if they were considering saying something else before actually saying what they end up saying. I've had moments like that with kids where I consider pointing out (to stick myself into the current example) that they've done the same thing, that they're not in charge here I am, that they've been interrupting and now expect me to be able to sort things through when all they've done is made a muddle, that this kid has long teeth while the other kid has painful boils, and I might just say something that I hope to convey at least a third of that without getting into full lecture mode - they won't listen anyway at this point, they're going off fully cocked. Whatever I come up with saying won't convey everything and will probably be misinterpreted because you just can't condense at this point but people try to do it anyway. I think Snape would be more likely to fall into the wrong words trap than perhaps McGonagall would be - despite his silky voice and snappy delivery he seems to have problems with interpersonal communications.

I'm not adverse to the reading you have of the subject, I just find it not the only one possible. We probably have different experiences that sway us.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

The more I think about this, the more I am persuaded that Snape's comment was about the situation of Gryffindor versus Slytherin and not Granger's personal appearance. When else does Snape comment about someone's physical appearance? Generally, he criticizes performance or what he perceives to be character flaws. It is OC for him to criticize appearance. In fact, it is possible that physical appearance doesn't really register for him, given his own described appearance and JKR's remark that other things were more important to him (or words to that effect).

It's like the comment about Tonk's Patronus. Both that comment and the "no difference" one were shocking to read, since they seemed so gratuitously cruel. Yet, we know now that Snape was commenting on Lupin's character as much a criticizing Tonks for her choice of Lupin or for being such a fool for love. The "no difference" comment could similarly be one of JKR's gotcha set-ups, where you have to switch back and view the scene again.

Of course, I could be misremembering everything, but giving this some thought, I agree with you that Snape's comment was situational and not personal.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I don't see how it makes sense if he's not talking about her teeth. It's true he doesn't usually go for physical appearance--I think less because he doesn't see it than because he's been teased about that himself and is more sensitive about people being stupid and/or arrogant. But this is just handed to him on a platter.

Hermione, Ron, Harry and I assume the Slytherins all take him to be taking a crack at Hermione's teeth and since he doesn't apologize, would it even matter if he was really talking about the situation? And why would "I see no difference" even relate in context? Ron is telling him that there's no difference. He's showing him that Hermione was also hexed, just like Goyle was. The way Snape constructs his sentence makes it sound like he's disagreeing with Ron, which is how everyone takes it.

Snape's line to Tonks makes more personal sense after we know the story, though she gets what he means. But here there's no more information we really need to get. Snape doesn't ever apologize or seem confused about her reaction.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I see your point about the pause. But Snape, generally, is more likely to commit deliberate rather than accidental cruelty. His problems with interpersonal communications have less to do with awkwardness than with occasional impulses to nastiness. That's why I would still read it as an insult.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I just found it to be a little jarring. As someone else mentioned, he doesn't usually make this sort of personal remark. Given his canon description, the recipient of such a remark would have carte blanche (sp) to call "Pot/Kettle" on him.

No matter one's perspective, though, this is a real eye-catching remark and has generated a lot of fandom discussion.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I don't see how "I see no difference" is any worse or different than Snape's usual behavior to Neville, or his encouragement of the Slytherins in their bad behavior.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, I disagree Severus encourages bad behavior of the Slytherins. We see both Slytherins and Gryffindors get away with misbehavior by not getting caught. We see Slytherins quicker than Gryffindors to move on from incidents. We see Gryffindors but not Slytherins interfering with Severus' teaching or disrupting class by talking out of turn. There was also one case where Severus didn't punish Slytherins for hexing a Gryffindor outside class, but in this he was not different from McGonagall - in that situation the Gryffindors had as much reason to frame the Slytherin as the Slytherins to hex a Gryffindors. (In his place I would have confiscated the wands of *everyone* who was in the corridor at the time and PIed them until I had incriminating stuff on several of them. Should have dampened extra-curricular hexing for a while.)

Severus reminds me one of my sergeants who used to say that if we had to break rules we should take the effort to be tactful about it. Make an effort not to get caught, and if we were, we should at least have an excuse that didn't insult his intelligence.

As for his treatment of Neville - that was an unfortunate dynamic. Not knowing about Neville's relatives didn't help, and Neville doing something so blatantly stupid as bringing Trevor to class did contribute to the appearance of either not trying or being bad deliberately.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I don't see why Neville bringing Trevor to class is so blatantly stupid. Don't kids sometimes bring their "familiars" to class, or am I misremembering?

We do see Snape cheering or egging on Draco for basically being a snot to the Gryffs, making Ron cut Draco's roots (why Ron? silly thing to do, except out of pure spite), picking on the Gryffs and therefore setting an example for the Slyths that this is acceptable behavior, etc. The reason why the Slyths don't interfere with Severus's class is because he's one of their own; the reason why the Gryffs do is because he's marked them out from their very first day as his unfavorite bunch. I don't think we see similar behavior from McGonagall, though again I could be misremembering. None of the teachers or students are at all sensible about inter-house rivalry but I do think Snape is the second-worst teacher about it. Hagrid is the worst.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I don't see why Neville bringing Trevor to class is so blatantly stupid. Don't kids sometimes bring their "familiars" to class, or am I misremembering?

Trevor is the only pet that we see in class - once in PS when Flitwick used him to demonstrate levitation and here. The only other situation was when Hedwig delivered Harry a message while he was in class - but he didn't bring her to class, she flew there on her own. And Trevor is most known for escaping from Neville - he isn't a well-controlled pet. In a class like Potions that's a recipe for disaster - he could hop into a cauldron or distract someone into making a dangerous mistake.

The reason why the Slyths don't interfere with Severus's class is because he's one of their own; the reason why the Gryffs do is because he's marked them out from their very first day as his unfavorite bunch.

The reason Hermione interferes in Severus' class is because she has to be 'right'. The reason Harry interferes in Severus' class is because of whatever issue of the day. The Slytherins have a better idea of where Severus' boundaries are. (When they know they are wrong they take care to wait for his back to be turned.) I disagree that Severus picks on Gryffindors in general or any one of them in particular.

I don't think we see similar behavior from McGonagall, though again I could be misremembering.

McGonagall doesn't teach a mixed-House class until NEWTs level so she doesn't face this kind of situation. Nor do we know how she handles students from other Houses in her class. We know she avoids giving Gryffindor students homework before a Quidditch match, we do not know what she does with students of the rival team (no homework? regular amount? double homework?). There's the whole business with Harry playing in first year (while not being punished for public and potentially dangerous rule-breaking), Harry's broom, ignoring Ginny's public crash into Zach's stand in HBP. Also after the Ministry battle - giving Harry and friends all those unjustified House points, while only reluctantly awarding Luna for same (though she does do it).

None of the teachers or students are at all sensible about inter-house rivalry but I do think Snape is the second-worst teacher about it. Hagrid is the worst.

They are the two we see teaching Gryff/Slyth classes in the first 5 books. We don't know if anyone else is better because they are never challenged that way. I'd say Slughorn is the least House-biased, but he has other biases. (OK, maybe Binns is the least biased, but that's because he has no idea who anyone is. Followed possibly by Trelawney.)

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>McGonagall doesn't teach a mixed-House class until NEWTs level so she doesn't face this kind of situation.<

Actually, I think she does. Rowling just never shows us the fact. Transfigureation for Ginny's year is Gryffindor/Ravenclaw. Luna mentions is directly.

Now, mind you, I think Rowling made that up in an attempt to make Ginny look compassionate and helpful, defending poor Luna, and that it has nothing to do with how the classes actually were conducted or divided up. But she put it there and we have to deal with it.

Unless Harry's class is so speshul that it's just Gryffindors, while all the other years are sharing with either Ravenclaw or someone else.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hard to say, because we never see or hear a non-Gryffindor in Transfiguration with Harry. If they are there they are awfully quiet.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Well, like I say, I think that Rowling was blowing us a rasberry with this one. But it's there afmd its easier (for me) to believe that Harry found it easy to ignore the Ravenclaws, than that the other years' classes were mixed and his wasn't.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Hermione doesn't interfere with Severus's class. She volunteers to give the answer. That's not interference, though Snape may find it annoying.

As far as Harry goes, he does interfere, but it was Snape who started it by picking on Harry in a personalized and inappropriate way. All of Harry's bad behavior from that point on is in direct response to Snape's own tarring of Harry as being Not Like Him.

[oryx_leucoryx]

In the werewolf lesson Hermione speaks several times out of turn and without permission. And the information she volunteered was that Severus was wrong in his choice of teaching material. That's interfering.

As for Harry - he sees Severus' attitude in the first lesson as personal picking on him for the same reason he perceives Draco's behavior at Madam Malkin's as hostile. Teachers are allowed to direct questions to non-volunteering students. Usually students take that as a warning to come prepared to class. More attentive people than myself pointed out that Severus' follow-up questions were less potions-specific than the first one. This allows the interpretation that Severus was giving Harry an opportunity to save face (which he could have used if he had done some reading in any related area). Severus' interpretation of Harry's lack of knowledge as coasting on his fame may have better been saved for a private exchange. (OTOH it is in line with what disappointed teachers often say.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think we ever see the Slytherins in class with McGonagall. She does snap at Draco to be quiet during the Apparition lesson iirc, and she gives him detention in HBP for not having his homework, but neither of those are unfair. Snape's reading the Skeeter article to the class and making the Slytherins laugh is imo encouraging their behavior, for instance. (And that's not helping them--Malfoy more often than not gets smacked down for acting the same way outside of class--unsurprisingly!)

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, I think he had a purpose when he did this - he suspected Harry was involved in the ingredients theft (possibly in the context of Harry's participation in the Tournament, possibly some unrelated mischief Severus didn't yet know about) and wanted to use some level of Legilimency to sort the question out (if it was Harry he needed to know because Harry could be endangering himself, if it wasn't then there was an impostor in the castle and he needed to know that too). So the entire lesson he was using various tactics to get Harry to look in his eyes - the Veritaserum threat does the trick eventually. Some of Severus' actions do have untoward effects in the long run and perhaps he should have thought of other ways to achieve the same goal but I don't think humiliating Hermione or the trio was his goal.