PoA Chapter Nineteen

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh good, more interesting backstory. This is usually the best part of the book. Even Dumbledore’s DH backstory is pretty good in itself. Too bad it’s told five times and has nothing to do with the plot. (And that we apparently only get the censored hets-only version.)

Snape announces right away that Lupin forgot to take his Potion, but neither of them seem to think it’s urgent that he get on that.

Lupin calls Snape a fool for letting a schoolboy grudge put an innocent man in prison. I’m going to stick up for Snape a little here. From his pov this isn’t a schoolboy grudge. He’s got every reason to think Sirius is guilty and so is Lupin. It’s not just that he’ll be happy to see them put in jail. This is one of the few times Snape isn’t letting his schoolboy grudge push him into doing something stupid.

Hermione timidly asks Snape if it would really hurt to hear what they have to say. Snape forgets to reply that actually yes, the one thing that could hurt them all right now is hanging around waiting for everyone to tell a story. Even though he just mentioned the forgotten werewolf potion.

Snape seems beyond reason—but one can hardly blame him given how everybody’s still carefully speaking in such a way as to not give him a reason to change his mind.

It’s like everybody feels bound to tell the story from the beginning or not tell it at all.

Harry, catching on to this plan, jumps in front of Snape and starts talking about how Lupin could have killed him during his secret Defense of the Dark Arts lessons, and then brings up Snape’s wanting revenge for school…honestly people, nobody’s telling the guy anything. You all sound just as unreasonable as he does.

LOL! Harry says if Lupin wanted to kill him he could have done it any time during the year and that means he’s not trying to kill him. Actually Harry, having read the whole series, not killing you for the whole year is practically proof that he is planning to kill you. That’s how they do in your universe.

Harry calls Snape pathetic—and he may be correct, but the evidence here from Snape’s pov still points to him being correct about catching these two. Harry himself took far longer to go from “I will kill you with my bare hands you filthy murderer!” to the state he’s in now than Snape’s had since his entrance.

Not that Snape notices this. He immediately sinks to Harry’s level so the two can CAPSLOCK at each other about who ought to be on their knees thanking who. This might take a while.

Meanwhile, the moon’s just taking its time getting into the sky. No rush.

The Trio all become masters of Snape’s wand. Not sure how that will work. Luckily we won’t know about it until DH.

Hermione whimpers that they’ve attacked a teacher and will be in so much trouble. Nice to know that this part of Hermione’s ethical sense stays true throughout the books.

After knocking Snape out, Harry says he still doesn’t believe Lupin. Sure he’ll insult the Slytherin for not believing Lupin and attack him over it, but that’s just school spirit.

Lupin gets to his feet and starts calmly planning a demonstration with Scabbers. You’d think Lupin would be a little more aware of FULL MOON nights, wouldn’t you?

Ron still hasn’t quite gotten up to speed on the rat thing. It’s really not that difficult Ron. You know Animagi exist and since YOU can recognize Scabbers apart from other rats, so can Black. It doesn’t really matter how he figured out where he was.

The Weasleys were on the front page of the Prophet? Okay, I take it back. It really must have been a slow news day.

Harry’s brain feels like it’s sagging under the weight of all this info. This wouldn’t be funny if it weren’t Harry where you really do know he can’t hold all this in his head.

Harry suddenly jolts back into “And Peter faked his death because you were going to kill him because you killed my parents!” Something he forgot ten minutes ago when he was knocking Snape out for trying to get Sirius punished for…killing his parents.

Harry CAPSLOCKS that Sirius already admitted he was the Potters’ secret keeper and he killed them. Sirius explains that he only meant he as good as killed them. Hey, Sirius finally realizes, maybe I should have made that clear 12 years ago!

The moral here is: Don’t speak metaphorically when being interrogated by police.

Having gotten through every second of backstory, we can finally just turn the rat into a man which we probably should have done a while ago, when Ron still had all his fingers. A transformed animagus is worth a thousand words, after all. Though these guys would obviously take the thousand words any day!

Lupin and Sirius turn Peter into a man together. Because up until the end they have to drag this out.

They don’t say anything to transform him. Are they both supposed to be performing the same wordless spell?

At this point I’m shocked they’d avoid explaining the spell before they do it.

Remus’s interrogation of Peter would be completely made of awesome if he wasn’t blatantly forgetting that the moon’s rising and he really needs to get their asses to safety.

And also if Snape wasn’t lying on the floor here all this time. Really, the guy hasn’t done much wrong here and nobody has felt at all badly for injuring him. I’m not saying you have to rush him to safety (though that would have the added bonus of GETTING THE WEREWOLF TO HIS POTION) but nobody cares at all they’ve knocked him unconscious.

Remus assures Peter that no one is going to kill him until they’ve sorted a few things out. If there’s one thing you can trust, Peter, it’s that they won’t do a single thing until they’ve sorted a few things out.

After which Remus will most likely kill him along with everyone else in the room when he TURNS INTO A WEREWOLF!

Sirius makes the Death Eaters sound a lot scarier and more intelligent in his speech than they actually are. Granted, that’s not hard.

Sirius wonders why he didn’t see Peter as a spy from the start. Having seen the flashbacks in OotP I think we’re all wondering that Sirius.

Seriously, it doesn’t say much for the Marauders that they had this guy in their gang.

I love that Sirius explains they made him the Secret Keeper because everybody knows he’s so pathetic they would never guess they’d put faith in him. This is the reason I can’t ever really hate Peter when the worm turned.

Also it’s not that great of a plan. Voldemort probably would have captured Peter to torture him for some information at some point, even if he never thought they’d be so stupid as to make him the secret keeper.

Correction: Even if he never thought anyone would be so stupid as to not make themselves their own secret keeper, which you can apparently do according to DH. That crash you heard was the entire Potters backstory, and thus the premise of this whole book, collapsing.

I love how Hermione has completely slipped into “bright student” mode during this exchange, to Lupin’s appreciation.

Of course, it’s too bad she doesn’t timidly remind Lupin that there’s a full moon a-rising.

Hermione calling Sirius “Mr. Black” and his reaction to it is pretty touching. Though I suspect it’s partly that he’s not used to being old enough to be called Mr. Black. (Unlike the Twins he probably didn’t start ordering anyone he could to call him that when he was 17.)

Hermione asks how Sirius got out of Azkaban without using “Dark Magic.” WTH is Dark Magic? Why would it be the only way you could get out of Azkaban? Half the things I can think of off the top of my head that would help escaping from prison are spells they use all the time.

Sirius keeps stressing that it wasn’t a happy feeling but an obsession that got him out of Azkaban. Obsessions are the most powerful force in this series, for all they say about love.

Sirius is pretty awesome in his story here. If only he’d thrown himself on Dumbledore’s mercy and allowed him to talk him out of jail and give him a position teaching Sirius would have lived a long and happy life. But no, he had to wrestle his own demons, break himself out of Azkaban, swim the English channel and steal Dumbledore’s thunder entirely. He’ll pay for that.

LOL! Sirius was thin enough as a dog to slip through the bars at Azkaban? Is there a bar shortage in the WW? He’s a big dog!

Peter should tell them all that Dumbledore ordered him to reveal the Potters’ location as part of Dumbledore’s own bigger plan and Sirius messed it up by not telling the truth or something. Let’s face it, it’s totally something Dumbledore would do. What was the point of telling the enemy about the 7 Potters plan?

Peter claims James would show mercy. I half expect Snape to wake up and start ranting about James going after him 4 against one and not knowing the meaning of the word mercy. Unfortunately, Snape’s still lying unconscious gathering brain damage on the floor. Maybe he can rant and rave about James in his sleep at this point.

Not that it really bothers me, but Harry’s line about reckoning his dad wouldn’t want Sirius and Lupin to become killers is pretty out of left field.

They’ll revive Snape when they get to the castle. That way he won’t have time to wake up and scream, “ASD;FLKASD;FLJASDF WEREWOLF POTION!”

Things that happen twice:
When you’ve attacked someone violently and hurt them, the hero will worry about getting in trouble.
Peter cut off his own finger before he transformed. That’ll be good practice for the next book.
Ron joins the ranks of pet owners who refuse to believe their pet could do anything wrong.
Peter, meanwhile, framed Crookshanks just like he framed Sirius. And just as people kind of keep implying the Malfoys are framing Buckbeak even though Buckbeak actually did it.
Snape’s injury is of even less interest to our hero’s as Draco’s.
Everybody thought there was a spy during the first war. People will vaguely talk about a spy in DH, though nothing ever comes of it. I mean, we know the “spy” is Snape and Dumbledore manipulating things that don’t need to be manipulated, but it doesn’t cause this sort of mistrust. How can it when nobody on the good side’s actually doing anything?
Post-HBP Harry’s random instinct that James would be upset at his friends “becoming killers” makes more sense. No soul damage!
Lupin waits to revive Snape until they’re at the castle since it’s more convenient. I can’t help but think of all the information the good guys didn’t pass on about Montague for the same reason.
And in a way, they pay for it the same way. I doubt Snape wouldn’t have noticed the time by now and pointed out the moon.
Peter and Draco are both given jobs based on their being completely unsuitable for them, and both Peter and Draco turn expectations on their heads, and try to jump sides, directly effecting victory.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!

Lots of Death Eaters out there biding their time, ready got kill Peter…
There must be a whole interesting faction of people on the other side who’ll come into play later!
Status: Dud. The only DEs with anything like personalities are neutralized early on.

Dark Magic
Can’t wait to find out what this really is!
Status: Dud. It’s spells invented by evil people or something.

Remus the Spy
There were some theories that we’d find out why this is.
Status: Dud. It seems Remus was thought to be the spy because he’s spineless. He’s just hiding it well in this book.

Weapons you can’t imagine
Voldemort sounds really scary when Peter describes him. I wonder what those weapons are?
Status: Dud. Still wondering. The only trick up his sleeve Voldemort has are Horcruxes.





Exploitation Filmmakers’ Credo
Think, everyone. What was one of the first things Snape said when he came in? Something about the reason he went to Lupin’s office…

James Bond Exposition Rule
Even if the heroes are doing it. Instead of giving the good guys a chance to escape, they’re giving the villain a chance to escape.

McGuffin
So basically, kids, this whole story about Sirius chasing Harry was a McGuffin of sorts. It gave Harry a reason to think about him.

Misdirected Answering
No, really, let’s keep talking about how Scabbers couldn’t be Peter instead of just pointing a stick at him to see if he is.

Jabootu Score: 4

Comments

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Wow, elide all of the "but the moon, it is a risin'" warnings/forebodings in your text and this review would be about two-thirds the size! :-) But yes, it was silly how all of these adults - well, Lupin and Snape - forgot all about it. Rowling 'foreshadowing' it but then making her characters stupid so she could have the transformation drama later on.

If I was Snape I would have been screaming THE WEREWOLF MUST TAKE HIS POTION, FIRST THINGS FIRST non-stop. Well, until I was rendered unconscious by my students.

The Trio all become masters of Snape’s wand. Not sure how that will work. Luckily we won’t know about it until DH.

Good on you for reminding us how Rowling destroyed her own series with her last book. You know, I still come across deluded fans who try and insist that the new wand lore of DH was there all the time in the earlier six books. Sheer and utter bollocks (excuse me). And they don't even try to explain why Rowling just happened to not MENTION or SHOW us the ever-fluctuating mastery of wands in those tomes. It was just, uhm, happening anyway, even though it was all invisible and no-one had problems at all with their wands, yeah, of course Jo knew all about it back then.

So sad.

Ron still hasn’t quite gotten up to speed on the rat thing. It’s really not that difficult Ron. You know Animagi exist and since YOU can recognize Scabbers apart from other rats, so can Black.

It was like we commented last post, Rowling invented her wizards and their world but she wasn't professional enough to properly get into her characters' heads and have them act consistently in character. Ron's wizarding upbringing was remembered at various points but at other times he was quite oblivious to things he should have known.

On the other hand, this IS Ronald Weasley, not the brightest wizard in the bunch ... :-)

The Weasleys were on the front page of the Prophet?

Heh, my anti-Ginny views intruded when I read that ... I had this vision of thousands, MILLIONS of wizards the world-wide all exclaiming about such a 'pretty girl' when they saw her visage on the front page.

But Ginny isn't heralded as being awesomely awesome until book 6. And she's only 12 here. Miss Hogwarts had yet to intrude. Still, it was a mildly amusing thought.

Correction: Even if he never thought anyone would be so stupid as to not make themselves their own secret keeper, which you can apparently do according to DH. That crash you heard was the entire Potters backstory, and thus the premise of this whole book, collapsing.

Yes. One of Rowling's most egregious mistakes of book 7; and that's saying something. The entire series collapses with that gaff. If only she'd employed a real editor, or understood her failings and gotten help!

We were talking about 'dark magic' in the comments of your last entry, viz Snape and his being thought to be growing evil by Lily because he was doing 'dark magic', I think. It's just something else that Rowling threw in there, to mean whatever she needed it to mean at the time. I took it to mean that Snape was being naughty.

[oryx_leucoryx]

If I was Snape I would have been screaming THE WEREWOLF MUST TAKE HIS POTION, FIRST THINGS FIRST non-stop. Well, until I was rendered unconscious by my students.

Well, he didn't bind Remus for nothing. If the students hadn't knocked Severus out Remus could have transformed safely. But why doesn't anyone make the connection? At least the adults. Yes, even Sirius. After all he did hang out outdoors all year, he should remember the moon phases.

Correction: Even if he never thought anyone would be so stupid as to not make themselves their own secret keeper, which you can apparently do according to DH. That crash you heard was the entire Potters backstory, and thus the premise of this whole book, collapsing.

Yes. One of Rowling's most egregious mistakes of book 7; and that's saying something. The entire series collapses with that gaff. If only she'd employed a real editor, or understood her failings and gotten help!

I can sort of imagine Dumbledore originally not telling the Potters that they could become their own Secret Keepers because he didn't want to be left out and then when they chose Sirius he couldn't tell them because they'd realize he wasn't playing straight. (The pro-Rowling crowd claims the 'being your own Secret Keeper' option was something added to the spell after the first war. Shrug.)

We were talking about 'dark magic' in the comments of your last entry, viz Snape and his being thought to be growing evil by Lily because he was doing 'dark magic', I think. It's just something else that Rowling threw in there, to mean whatever she needed it to mean at the time. I took it to mean that Snape was being naughty.


But all the concrete information we have about what he was doing are his spells. Mostly typical Hogwarts stuff, including Levicorpus which almost everyone thinks is funny - but which can be put to cruel use. Then there is Sectumsempra which can be used with varying degrees of force - yes, it can kill or cause permanent damage, but it can also be used to cause minor nicks that are easily healed, as Severus appears to have done. Now compare to other stuff that is not considered Dark Arts: Love Potions are something to laugh about (Molly), Memory Charms and mindwipes are nothing to be concerned about, really, candy that can choke you to death or cause severe bleeding etc can be used with some caution - but even when used carelessly isn't Dark magic at all, no way! So what is it that made young Severus a Dark wizard but not the twins? I understand that Rowling expects her readers to accept there is a difference, but she completely fails to support this. If at least we knew what it was that Mulciber attempted so we can tell if it was something that would be considered evil or funny compared to typical Hogwarts standard. Was Lily horrified because Mulciber did something really worse than typical or because the person who was hurt was a friend of hers?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

It isn't just about who it's done to; it's also about who does it. Consider the example of one person arranging for another person to encounter a deadly animal.

If a Gryffindor does it to a Slytherin, it's officially a Prank. (Sirius, werewolf, Severus)

If a Gryffindor does it to another Gryffindor, it still isn't a big deal, although the first Gryffindor will be criticized. (Hagrid, giant spiders, Harry and Ron. Ron did criticize Hagrid for that one, although unfortunately never to his face.)

If a Slytherin does it to other people, it's because they're evil. (Riddle, basilisk, various people)

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

(The pro-Rowling crowd claims the 'being your own Secret Keeper' option was something added to the spell after the first war. Shrug.)

ROFL!

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

My idea is that a person can only keep one secret at a time, and the Potters were already doing so.

[oryx_leucoryx]

What secrets do you think they were keeping? There have to be two different ones if neither of them could have been secret Keeper for their home.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

There is no morality in HP except for the consensus that what the good guys do is good, and what the bad guys do is bad. *eyeroll* But look at what the heroes do to people, my god! Even Hermione, one of my favorite characters, mind-rapes her parents, FFS!

which almost everyone thinks is funny - but which can be put to cruel use

That goes for any spell- I mean, what's the one that makes you giggle? I read a fic once where that had been cast on someone and then not taken off, and the character ended up collapsing and having broken ribs because they kept convulsing with laughter and it actually ended up hurting them by going on so long. This is a crappy explanation, but it sounded much more convincing in the fic.

PS. Oh, it's Rictusempra- a tickling charm that makes a person laugh uncontrollably. Yay google!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Oh that was a great SSHG fic! and it was Neville who cast the curse, though half-way accidentally (he actually meant some other spell).

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Lol, so it was an SSHG fic, there you go. Any recollection what the title was? I'm terrible at remembering names. Oh, that's right, Neville's ringing a bell. I thought he was the victim, but didn't he cast it on Snape or something? And the whole point of this was that he thought it was a harmless spell but it wound up causing serious harm.

He didn't mean to cast a hiccuping spell or something, did he? I have hiccups on the brain for some reason...

[oryx_leucoryx]

Found it: In Solemn Stillness Lay by odogoddess

For some reason I remembered it as a longer story.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Good on you for reminding us how Rowling destroyed her own series with her last book. You know, I still come across deluded fans who try and insist that the new wand lore of DH was there all the time in the earlier six books. Sheer and utter bollocks (excuse me). And they don't even try to explain why Rowling just happened to not MENTION or SHOW us the ever-fluctuating mastery of wands in those tomes. It was just, uhm, happening anyway, even though it was all invisible and no-one had problems at all with their wands, yeah, of course Jo knew all about it back then.

In my comments to chapter 17 I tried out one common fanwank to this problem - that if the disarming happens without intent to deprive the victim of his wand in the long term perhaps there is no change in mastery.


This is from there:

Sirius disarms Harry and Hermione. So he’s the master of their wands now, right? *rolls eyes*

And he does so with Ron's wand. So he mastered that one too. Oh, but he wasn't planning to keep the wands so it doesn't count? Do the wands know that? Does Sirius have to cross his fingers when he disarms the kids to prevent them from losing mastery of their wands?
----------

But here when the kids disarm Severus I bet at least the boys intended it very seriously. Had they been given a choice between temporarily depriving Severus of his wand or making the wand no longer compatible with him they'd have chosen the latter. And obviously neither of them knew of a 'cross your fingers and the victim retains mastery of his wand' rule or any other method of bypassing the wand mastery issue. So Severus should have lost mastery of his wand. Of course, for all we know he had to buy a new one over the summer. Maybe that's why he was mad at the kids. (In addition to injuring him, injuring him further while transporting him out of the tunnel and letting the traitor escape, whoever he turned out to be.) But if Rowling was serious about the wand mastery business she had plenty of opportunities to show it at work. The clearest one being Moody. Because Barty Jr definitely defeated him, used his wand successfully for a year and had no intention of returning it. Then in OOTP she has Moody complaining how his magical eye sticks after being used by Barty. He could have mentioned at the same opportunity that of course he also had to get a new wand because the old one was now useless. Not that hard to do when you have a plan.

[oryx_leucoryx]

BTW we know who the real master of Harry's wand is right? Tom Riddle. Diary!Tom disarmed Harry back in COS. I bet that's why Harry never managed to hit Tom in any of their duels, the wand refused to hit its true master. (The only damage Harry ever inflicted with that wand was to destroy the wand Ton took from Lucius. Maybe the wand was being jealous.) Harry had to lose that wand to be able to let Tom kill himself with an Elder Wand he did not master.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

In all fairness, it *is* obvious that she was trying to periodically feed us clues that the whole climax of the faceoff between Tom and Harry was going to have something to do with a wand. And that really *was* there from the beginning. Mostly in the form of Olivander's gnomic utterances.

It is not by any means proven that what she originally had in mind was what she actually ended up giving us. I wouldn't be a bit surtprised to learn that she had some other denoument planned, and managed to paint herself into a corner that made it inaccessible. Or that she may have had what she thought ewas a better idea, or that she had simply forgotten it.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

In all fairness, it *is* obvious that she was trying to periodically feed us clues that the whole climax of the faceoff between Tom and Harry was going to have something to do with a wand.

Well, not *a* wand, the brother wands, right? Which never happens. All the 'gnomic utterances' (!) were about either Harry's wand or the common core connection.

Instead she conjures up the Elder Wand malarky, which is way out of left field.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Well... not really. The underlying point/theme of Olivander's periodic ramblings was always wand *choice*. So what we got *was* in the same ballpark as what she had clearly always intended. But unless she simply never settled down to draft out what she *meant* by it in the first place, I can't see how something that was allegedly planned out for 17 years could have ended up in such a shambles, unless something went seriously wrong with the plan in the course of the writing of it.

I mean, it's not like you can throw these suggestions out there and expect someone else to fill in the details and make them work.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I was looking up some detail in OOTP in the Lexicon when I came across the following quote:

I had to put in some things because of what's to come in Books Six and Seven, and I didn't want anyone to say to me, "What a cheat. You never gave us clues." Because if I didn't mention certain things in Order of the Phoenix, you could have said: "Well, you sprang that on us." Whereas I want you to be able to guess, if you've got your wits about you. There are a few surprises coming.

I find it more than ironic.

And if anyone is planning on a sporking of OOTP I would like this to be one of the themes - what elements in that thick book ended up as clues that got developed further in HBP and DH, what things looked like such clues and weren't and what were obvious places where Rowling could have given clues to later events but missed the opportunity.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I think the plan all along was for Albus' wand to have to choose between the two of them, implied by the brother wands having feathers from Albus' familiar at their cores. Also tied to Ollivander knowing about the two wands and then being kidnapped by DEs. Probably by the time she wrote HBP she knew the loyalty of Albus' wand depended on disarming the previous master. While she could find ways to get rid of Harry's wand she needed him to make a connection between disarming and obtaining mastery of that wand - so she arbitrarily made that rule apply to all wands.

I suppose she realized she couldn't get away with it at all with the original premise, that a wand chooses a wizard based on affinity between them. If Voldemort held a wand that had chosen Dumbledore based on affinity, even if that wand wasn't ideal for Voldemort it should be a good enough fit - at least as good as the fit of Severus' wand to Sirius that we'll see in the next chapter.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I can't believe anybody seriously claiming there's any clue about that wand mastery stuff before DH where it's suddenly so obvious. I know some try to claim that it just adds to the original wandlore, but I don't buy that either. It totally trumps the originally ideas about wands.

Oh god, I can just imagine what would have happened if Ginny was on the front page once she revealed her "true" personality. Every boy in Hogwarts would be passing around the photo, I guess.

The Secret Keeper thing is SO egregious I'm amazed nobody caught it. She literally has Harry visit a cottage under the exact same protection and brushes aside the whole backstory by having Bill blithely say he's his own secret keeper so, you know, there won't be any danger from spies or anything else Voldemort could do to learn the secret!

Not that Voldemort's even looking for Bill. He's not interested in any of these people besides Harry.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Not that Voldemort's even looking for Bill. He's not interested in any of these people besides Harry.

To be fair, the night of the wedding/Ministry takeover DEs did show up in every home connected to the Order (I counted some 13 homes, could be more) and Arthur was being under some kind of watch in case Harry decided to contact him. But apparently this was not extended to Bill, or at least not to Bill's home, because Harry had to arrive either before the Fidelius was cast or outside its boundaries.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

DEs did show up in every home connected to the Order and Arthur was being under some kind of watch in case Harry decided to contact him

I thought Voldemort taking over would be much scarier and more hardcore than it actually was. I mean, torturing students in detention and casting Crucio on them or getting them to cast it on each other [or is that fanon?] was a really neat detail, because it makes it gritty and wibbly and like, holy crap, this really is a war! Although, now that I think of it, that was his DEs actions, not his own commands, hmm.

[By comparison, the Trio nearly starving to death in the forest instead of holing up in a nice warm cottage somewhere and Accio'ing food from the nearest supermarket is super tame and silly]

But come on- he wants Harry, right? Why not threaten to execute the Weasleys? He has to know they're like his own family- and will officially be his family when he marries Ginny in the future, omgyay! *eyeroll*- so putting them to the death would be an excellent way of drawing Harry out. I mean, Voldy in OotP was so much smarter than Harry here. He got into the boy's head, planted a vision of a loved one being in mortal peril and got him to walk into a trap. Where was that cold, calculating awesomeness in DH?!

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

By DH Voldemort became possibly the lamest villain ever. The WW was shivering in terror for a decade over THIS GUY?

Really. What happened to Mildly Awesome and At Times Even Villainous Voldemort of OotP? *cries*

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

I so don't get the SK thing because- forgive me if I'm being stupid here- Peter was the SK for the Potters, right? So...how did Hagrid and DD actually go pick up the infant Potter after his parents were killed not-so-heroically defending him?

Nobody knew Peter was the SK, which means he can't have gone and told them where the Potters were holed up, right? So...Harry should've starved to death all on his own instead of getting rescued...right?

I'm probably missing something here that'll fanwank everything into place, but I can't see it.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

The way I fan-wank the SK dilemma at Godrick's Hollow is to think that, once Peter betrayed the Potters by giving the secret to their enemy, and then that enemy acted upon it, the secret was broken and everyone and their uncle could see the house and the people.

The problem with that scenario is, shouldn't the secret be broken the minute Peter spills the beans instead of waiting for Voldy to announce it in his own unique way? That's why I have to add that the secret is still a secret until the enemy acts on it. That extra step should not be necessary.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

That's quite clever, actually! I mean, magic incorporates intent, I think, so if the point of the Fidelius was to keep a secret from someone in particular, then if the SK betrayed that secret, that'd have ramifications upon the integrity of the spell. I could buy that!

But it still sucks that people have to bend over backwards to excuse these massive plot holes. Very creative thinking there, though!

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Once again we've got Rowling to thank for not sitting down and figuring out how anything works in the first place -- thinking that she can then tweak it every bloody time she wants to use it without anyone noticing.

Up to OotP we had an unclear situation with a default interpretation that appeared to hold together. You had a SK, the SK kept the secret. If the SK revealed the secret, the spell was broken.

Then in OotP she shot the first hole through the middle of this interpretation with the information that the SK could *share* the secret. Okay, then how does telling the secret break the spell? Because the spell had to be *broken* for Albus to know where to send Hagrid to retrieve Harry? And how could he think that Sirius Black was the SK if that wasn't who told him about it?

I mean, you can fanwank *that* by saying that they had Peter polyjuice into Sirius and tell Albus where the Potters were -- all the better to frame Sirius by, too. But it's clumsy.

And then she jerked it even more out of plumb by claiming that when the SK dies, everyone who has shared the secret becomes a 2nd generation SK. Apparantly without the secret coming any closer to being broken. By this time you have to start asking how does one ever *break* a "kept" secret?

And then in GHs she blew us a razzberry and called us all suckers for having ever believed her in the firstplace with the discovery that you can keep your own damn secrets, and really ought to.