PoA Chapter Nineteen

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh good, more interesting backstory. This is usually the best part of the book. Even Dumbledore’s DH backstory is pretty good in itself. Too bad it’s told five times and has nothing to do with the plot. (And that we apparently only get the censored hets-only version.)

Snape announces right away that Lupin forgot to take his Potion, but neither of them seem to think it’s urgent that he get on that.

Lupin calls Snape a fool for letting a schoolboy grudge put an innocent man in prison. I’m going to stick up for Snape a little here. From his pov this isn’t a schoolboy grudge. He’s got every reason to think Sirius is guilty and so is Lupin. It’s not just that he’ll be happy to see them put in jail. This is one of the few times Snape isn’t letting his schoolboy grudge push him into doing something stupid.

Hermione timidly asks Snape if it would really hurt to hear what they have to say. Snape forgets to reply that actually yes, the one thing that could hurt them all right now is hanging around waiting for everyone to tell a story. Even though he just mentioned the forgotten werewolf potion.

Snape seems beyond reason—but one can hardly blame him given how everybody’s still carefully speaking in such a way as to not give him a reason to change his mind.

It’s like everybody feels bound to tell the story from the beginning or not tell it at all.

Harry, catching on to this plan, jumps in front of Snape and starts talking about how Lupin could have killed him during his secret Defense of the Dark Arts lessons, and then brings up Snape’s wanting revenge for school…honestly people, nobody’s telling the guy anything. You all sound just as unreasonable as he does.

LOL! Harry says if Lupin wanted to kill him he could have done it any time during the year and that means he’s not trying to kill him. Actually Harry, having read the whole series, not killing you for the whole year is practically proof that he is planning to kill you. That’s how they do in your universe.

Harry calls Snape pathetic—and he may be correct, but the evidence here from Snape’s pov still points to him being correct about catching these two. Harry himself took far longer to go from “I will kill you with my bare hands you filthy murderer!” to the state he’s in now than Snape’s had since his entrance.

Not that Snape notices this. He immediately sinks to Harry’s level so the two can CAPSLOCK at each other about who ought to be on their knees thanking who. This might take a while.

Meanwhile, the moon’s just taking its time getting into the sky. No rush.

The Trio all become masters of Snape’s wand. Not sure how that will work. Luckily we won’t know about it until DH.

Hermione whimpers that they’ve attacked a teacher and will be in so much trouble. Nice to know that this part of Hermione’s ethical sense stays true throughout the books.

After knocking Snape out, Harry says he still doesn’t believe Lupin. Sure he’ll insult the Slytherin for not believing Lupin and attack him over it, but that’s just school spirit.

Lupin gets to his feet and starts calmly planning a demonstration with Scabbers. You’d think Lupin would be a little more aware of FULL MOON nights, wouldn’t you?

Ron still hasn’t quite gotten up to speed on the rat thing. It’s really not that difficult Ron. You know Animagi exist and since YOU can recognize Scabbers apart from other rats, so can Black. It doesn’t really matter how he figured out where he was.

The Weasleys were on the front page of the Prophet? Okay, I take it back. It really must have been a slow news day.

Harry’s brain feels like it’s sagging under the weight of all this info. This wouldn’t be funny if it weren’t Harry where you really do know he can’t hold all this in his head.

Harry suddenly jolts back into “And Peter faked his death because you were going to kill him because you killed my parents!” Something he forgot ten minutes ago when he was knocking Snape out for trying to get Sirius punished for…killing his parents.

Harry CAPSLOCKS that Sirius already admitted he was the Potters’ secret keeper and he killed them. Sirius explains that he only meant he as good as killed them. Hey, Sirius finally realizes, maybe I should have made that clear 12 years ago!

The moral here is: Don’t speak metaphorically when being interrogated by police.

Having gotten through every second of backstory, we can finally just turn the rat into a man which we probably should have done a while ago, when Ron still had all his fingers. A transformed animagus is worth a thousand words, after all. Though these guys would obviously take the thousand words any day!

Lupin and Sirius turn Peter into a man together. Because up until the end they have to drag this out.

They don’t say anything to transform him. Are they both supposed to be performing the same wordless spell?

At this point I’m shocked they’d avoid explaining the spell before they do it.

Remus’s interrogation of Peter would be completely made of awesome if he wasn’t blatantly forgetting that the moon’s rising and he really needs to get their asses to safety.

And also if Snape wasn’t lying on the floor here all this time. Really, the guy hasn’t done much wrong here and nobody has felt at all badly for injuring him. I’m not saying you have to rush him to safety (though that would have the added bonus of GETTING THE WEREWOLF TO HIS POTION) but nobody cares at all they’ve knocked him unconscious.

Remus assures Peter that no one is going to kill him until they’ve sorted a few things out. If there’s one thing you can trust, Peter, it’s that they won’t do a single thing until they’ve sorted a few things out.

After which Remus will most likely kill him along with everyone else in the room when he TURNS INTO A WEREWOLF!

Sirius makes the Death Eaters sound a lot scarier and more intelligent in his speech than they actually are. Granted, that’s not hard.

Sirius wonders why he didn’t see Peter as a spy from the start. Having seen the flashbacks in OotP I think we’re all wondering that Sirius.

Seriously, it doesn’t say much for the Marauders that they had this guy in their gang.

I love that Sirius explains they made him the Secret Keeper because everybody knows he’s so pathetic they would never guess they’d put faith in him. This is the reason I can’t ever really hate Peter when the worm turned.

Also it’s not that great of a plan. Voldemort probably would have captured Peter to torture him for some information at some point, even if he never thought they’d be so stupid as to make him the secret keeper.

Correction: Even if he never thought anyone would be so stupid as to not make themselves their own secret keeper, which you can apparently do according to DH. That crash you heard was the entire Potters backstory, and thus the premise of this whole book, collapsing.

I love how Hermione has completely slipped into “bright student” mode during this exchange, to Lupin’s appreciation.

Of course, it’s too bad she doesn’t timidly remind Lupin that there’s a full moon a-rising.

Hermione calling Sirius “Mr. Black” and his reaction to it is pretty touching. Though I suspect it’s partly that he’s not used to being old enough to be called Mr. Black. (Unlike the Twins he probably didn’t start ordering anyone he could to call him that when he was 17.)

Hermione asks how Sirius got out of Azkaban without using “Dark Magic.” WTH is Dark Magic? Why would it be the only way you could get out of Azkaban? Half the things I can think of off the top of my head that would help escaping from prison are spells they use all the time.

Sirius keeps stressing that it wasn’t a happy feeling but an obsession that got him out of Azkaban. Obsessions are the most powerful force in this series, for all they say about love.

Sirius is pretty awesome in his story here. If only he’d thrown himself on Dumbledore’s mercy and allowed him to talk him out of jail and give him a position teaching Sirius would have lived a long and happy life. But no, he had to wrestle his own demons, break himself out of Azkaban, swim the English channel and steal Dumbledore’s thunder entirely. He’ll pay for that.

LOL! Sirius was thin enough as a dog to slip through the bars at Azkaban? Is there a bar shortage in the WW? He’s a big dog!

Peter should tell them all that Dumbledore ordered him to reveal the Potters’ location as part of Dumbledore’s own bigger plan and Sirius messed it up by not telling the truth or something. Let’s face it, it’s totally something Dumbledore would do. What was the point of telling the enemy about the 7 Potters plan?

Peter claims James would show mercy. I half expect Snape to wake up and start ranting about James going after him 4 against one and not knowing the meaning of the word mercy. Unfortunately, Snape’s still lying unconscious gathering brain damage on the floor. Maybe he can rant and rave about James in his sleep at this point.

Not that it really bothers me, but Harry’s line about reckoning his dad wouldn’t want Sirius and Lupin to become killers is pretty out of left field.

They’ll revive Snape when they get to the castle. That way he won’t have time to wake up and scream, “ASD;FLKASD;FLJASDF WEREWOLF POTION!”

Things that happen twice:
When you’ve attacked someone violently and hurt them, the hero will worry about getting in trouble.
Peter cut off his own finger before he transformed. That’ll be good practice for the next book.
Ron joins the ranks of pet owners who refuse to believe their pet could do anything wrong.
Peter, meanwhile, framed Crookshanks just like he framed Sirius. And just as people kind of keep implying the Malfoys are framing Buckbeak even though Buckbeak actually did it.
Snape’s injury is of even less interest to our hero’s as Draco’s.
Everybody thought there was a spy during the first war. People will vaguely talk about a spy in DH, though nothing ever comes of it. I mean, we know the “spy” is Snape and Dumbledore manipulating things that don’t need to be manipulated, but it doesn’t cause this sort of mistrust. How can it when nobody on the good side’s actually doing anything?
Post-HBP Harry’s random instinct that James would be upset at his friends “becoming killers” makes more sense. No soul damage!
Lupin waits to revive Snape until they’re at the castle since it’s more convenient. I can’t help but think of all the information the good guys didn’t pass on about Montague for the same reason.
And in a way, they pay for it the same way. I doubt Snape wouldn’t have noticed the time by now and pointed out the moon.
Peter and Draco are both given jobs based on their being completely unsuitable for them, and both Peter and Draco turn expectations on their heads, and try to jump sides, directly effecting victory.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!

Lots of Death Eaters out there biding their time, ready got kill Peter…
There must be a whole interesting faction of people on the other side who’ll come into play later!
Status: Dud. The only DEs with anything like personalities are neutralized early on.

Dark Magic
Can’t wait to find out what this really is!
Status: Dud. It’s spells invented by evil people or something.

Remus the Spy
There were some theories that we’d find out why this is.
Status: Dud. It seems Remus was thought to be the spy because he’s spineless. He’s just hiding it well in this book.

Weapons you can’t imagine
Voldemort sounds really scary when Peter describes him. I wonder what those weapons are?
Status: Dud. Still wondering. The only trick up his sleeve Voldemort has are Horcruxes.





Exploitation Filmmakers’ Credo
Think, everyone. What was one of the first things Snape said when he came in? Something about the reason he went to Lupin’s office…

James Bond Exposition Rule
Even if the heroes are doing it. Instead of giving the good guys a chance to escape, they’re giving the villain a chance to escape.

McGuffin
So basically, kids, this whole story about Sirius chasing Harry was a McGuffin of sorts. It gave Harry a reason to think about him.

Misdirected Answering
No, really, let’s keep talking about how Scabbers couldn’t be Peter instead of just pointing a stick at him to see if he is.

Jabootu Score: 4

Comments

Lots to say - part 1

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

Lupin calls Snape a fool for letting a schoolboy grudge put an innocent man in prison. I’m going to stick up for Snape a little here. ... This is one of the few times Snape isn’t letting his schoolboy grudge push him into doing something stupid.

Shock! You're sticking up for Snape! But, yeah, he isn't being unreasonable here, even though the story slants it that way. It's sobering to realize how many time I've accepted this narrator's voice instead of questioning it.

Actually, I think it's entirely possible that Lupin sees this whole situation at a schoolboy level, given the way he mismanages his disease as if it's someone else's problem. Gryffindor men are not especially evolved, as far as I can see. They are repelled by emotion. When they marry, they marry their mothers, then avoid them like naughty boys. If that horrible story about James and Sirius is any indication, they seem to prefer larking about with their male mates, eschewing responsibility. They seem to thrive on extravagent praise, expect maybe for Harry, who had the negativity of Voldemort's soul embedded in him, let's not forget... or was that the power of love? Why would Lupin even pull out a schoolboy grudge if it wasn't the reality he existed in all the time, an alternate reality far from what was actually happening? Why would he keep quiet about his school adventures if they weren't so central to his sense of well-being? Clinging to school days, bully school days was supposed to be the weakness of the Marauders, I guess.

It’s like everybody feels bound to tell the story from the beginning or not tell it at all. ...
honestly people, nobody’s telling the guy anything. You all sound just as unreasonable as he does.

It's believe me because I am who I am, not because I'm making sense. Dumbledore is the epitome of this, dragging irrelevant details into an ever-lengthening story, expecting to be believed because he's Dumbledore. Harry picked it up from him.

Harry calls Snape pathetic—and he may be correct

And this is sure the way to get your teacher's attention and respect! *cough* privileged dumbass *cough* At least he didn't say, "You disgust me!" Seriously, who else gets treated like this in the series, and puts up with it?

Not that Snape notices this. He immediately sinks to Harry’s level so the two can CAPSLOCK at each other

Hee. I would do the same if someone called me pathetic, and probably worse... well, maybe not with a werewolf in the room, even if he's non-transforming in the room. The whole story, the last two books in particular, frequently elicit CAPSLOCKS OF RAGE!*@%! from me. I appreciate it when Snape expresses these sentiments.

Re: Lots to say - part 2

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

The Trio all become masters of Snape’s wand.

He easily gets mastery back from Harry at a later date. In fact, he probably disarmed everyone at least once when he taught DADA. That's what I'd do, confiscate their wands if they lose them to me, then return them at the end of class, after I've performed a few mastery-reinforcing spells.

After knocking Snape out, Harry says he still doesn’t believe Lupin.

!!! Way to leave you and your friends open, future-Auror Potter.

The Weasleys were on the front page of the Prophet?

Ya know, say what you want about Wizarding justice, but at least the prisoners get the Prophet. Or maybe that's a punishment.

Sirius explains that he only meant he as good as killed them.

Him and Snape, Dumbledore, Pettigrew, James Potter... I'm sure there are more. The Potters were "as good as" dead all along.

I’ll take the thousand words any day!

You're doing an excellent job with them!

At this point I’m shocked they’d avoid explaining the spell before they do it.

Yeah, where's the lengthy exposition? But, it wouldn't do to have Animagi in the next generation, would it?

And also if Snape wasn’t lying on the floor here all this time.

Ignore him; nothing can be done. Face it, Slytherins are there to be beaten to a pulp and stepped over. They aren't people.

And they wondered why Slytherins joined the Death Eaters...

Everybody thought there was a spy ... but it doesn’t cause this sort of mistrust. How can it when nobody on the good side’s actually doing anything, after all?

This is one of those WTF things, the trust in appearances or the Word of Dumbledore, or Potter. I guess Rowling wants to say that turning on each other is destructive, but in my experience, even the suggestion of an informer is super-destructive and it's usually the groups doing the least that are rife with suspicion about informers, because they don't have anything else to do.

Great recap!

Re: Lots to say - part 1

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting point about Lupin. I think there are many scenes where if you think about it Lupin is easily as stuck in the past as Snape is, even if he's saying that Snape ought to grow up. After all, Lupin's the one who doesn't seem to have a life until Dumbledore calls him back to Hogwarts. He's certainly willing to risk Harry's life for schoolboy nostalgia crush (opposite of a grudge), he takes the map back and doesn't take responsibility for it and in the last chapter he automatically added details like Snape must have hated James for being good at Quidditch as if he was still covering up for him.

Re: Lots to say - part 1

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

It's sobering to realize how many time I've accepted this narrator's voice instead of questioning it.

IKR? It really dismayed me when I looked back and saw how blindly I accepted the authorial voice when it was so frequently immoral and biased.

It's believe me because I am who I am, not because I'm making sense

Having magic means you base your opinions on who tells what to you, because losing your ability to use logic and reason is the trade-off for getting to use a wand!

Honestly, screwed up as things are in HP!verse, I'm happier and better off not being a witch. I was Hermione at school, and I probably would've been hexed mercilessly by the Weasley twins and picked on by all the other kids, without any teachers to help because BULLYING IS TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE UNLESS IT'S BY SLYTHERINS.

*cough* privileged dumbass *cough*

That pisses me off. He acts like the Chosen Brat. His rep goes to his head and he expects everyone to bow down and act like he's the boss because of some lame-o prophecy he doesn't even know about right now and has absolutely no respect for authority or anyone who won't let him get his own way.

At least he didn't say, "You disgust me!" Seriously, who else gets treated like this in the series, and puts up with it?

I wanted to punch Dumbledore in the face, then come up with a spell that would pull out each hair of his beard slowly and painfully one-by-one before making him allergic to sweets.

The guy let Snape leave with the memory of that prophecy, so acting all haughty and uptight about him spilling his guts to Voldemort is just hypocritical. He has no probs Obliviating anyone else in the series, why would he stay his hand this time unless he wanted that to happen? This is the guy who raised Harry as a sacrificial lamb, I have no problems believing he was willing to sacrifice people for the prophecy to come true and it could only happen if Voldy was informed.

the last two books in particular, frequently elicit CAPSLOCKS OF RAGE!*@%! from me. I appreciate it when Snape expresses these sentiments.

*high-fives* ITA.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

[i] Hermione asks how Sirius got out of Azkaban without using “Dark Magic.” WTH is Dark Magic? Why would it be the only way you could get out of Azkaban? Half the things I can think of off the top of my head that would help escaping from prison are spells they use all the time. [/i]

Given that prisoners wands are confiscated in Azkaban, does this mean wandless magic is Dark?

Come to think of it, when and how does Sirius get his wand back? Did he steal Ron's here? And how did he get one in time for OotP without turning up to Ollivander's and getting measured?

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Meh. He either bought a new one while he was off in South America, or he pulled out a legacy wand at Girmmauld Place. Given that both the purebloods in Harry's class were sent off to school with legacy wands, I'm sure there are at least a few old ones in a drawer there somewhere.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I would totally not be surprised if wandless magic was presented as the heighth of evilness if necessary.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Snape’s announces right away that Lupin forgot to take his Potion, but neither of them seem to think it’s urgent that he get on that.

There is the possibility that it is already too late to take the potion. But if not, it isn't clear Severus would think it necessarily a good plan to give Remus his potion now. As Terri explained elsewhere, it all depends on how Severus perceives Remus' motives. A werewolf that keeps his mind while transformed is preferable to one who does not only if what is in that werewolf's mind is well-intentioned. If Remus is hostile to Harry (and the other kids) then it is preferable to have him lose his mind so he can be handled like an animal when he is transformed rather than let him be a person with magical animal abilities. (Would you want Fenrir to keep his mind when he transforms?)

It is possible Severus mentioned the potion as a reminder and a test: If Remus had reacted with 'Oh, darn it! I am about to transform - I'll endanger all of you! Can anyone help keep the kids safe?' he might have taken the potion from his pocket and given it to him, but Remus ignored the reminder and focused on persuading Severus to let him and Sirius go free instead of the immediate danger he imposes. So I can see Severus believing Remus and Sirius are conspiring to harm the kids and deciding the potion would do more harm than good. Instead he takes reasonable precaution and binds Remus so he can't do damage regardless of his state of mind when he transforms. (Of course everyone believes he did it out of spite because Remus called him a fool. Sigh.)

The Trio all become masters of Snape’s wand. Not sure how that will work. Luckily we won’t know about it until DH.

Of course it will be Sirius who uses Severus' wand. Never mind.

Hermione whimpers that they’ve attacked a teacher and will be in so much trouble. Nice to know that this part of Hermione’s ethical sense stays true throughout the books.

Indeed, she never grows in her moral outlook beyond this point and neither does any of her friends.

After knocking Snape out, Harry says he still doesn’t believe Lupin. Sure he’ll insult the Slytherin for not believing Lupin and attack him over it, but that’s just a school spirit.

But he does release Remus from his bindings. And Remus thanks him rather than telling him it would actually be better to leave him bound, as he is scheduled to transform soon. Hmm. Sirius said Harry should have left him to deal with Severus - how? Sirius was wandless!

Harry suddenly jolts back into “And Peter faked his death because you were going to kill him because you killed my parents!” Something he forgot ten minutes ago when he was knocking Snape out for trying to get Sirius punished for…killing his parents.

Thus proving he is a true wizard - totally lacking in logic.

They don’t say anything to transform him. Are they both supposed to be performing the same wordless spell? At this point I’m shocked they’d avoid explaining the spell before they do it.

Well, whatever the spell was, it must have been something they practiced in their school days when they were still learning the transformations.

And also if Snape wasn’t lying on the floor here all this time. Really, the guy hasn’t done much wrong here and nobody has felt at all badly for seriously injuring him. I’m not saying you have to rush him to safety (though that would have the added bonus of GETTING THE WEREWOLF TO HIS POTION) but nobody cares at all they’ve knocked him unconscious.

They could have bound him and revived him. Or revived him and immobilized him. In both cases he would have learned the facts without being able to get in their way and without sustaining more damage. As for the potion - it might actually be in Severus' pocket.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

There is the possibility that it is already too late to take the potion. But if not, it isn't clear Severus would think it necessarily a good plan to give Remus his potion now.

It seems pushing it to say it's too late to take it now when Snape only brought it to him shortly before running out. But even so you'd think Snape would get everybody out of there at least. He's got no way to control Remus if he's out of his mind and a wolf, and if he's hostile to the kids anyway he's already just as dangerous to them as a guy who can do advanced magic.

It is possible Severus mentioned the potion as a reminder and a test: If Remus had reacted with 'Oh, darn it! I am about to transform - I'll endanger all of you! Can anyone help keep the kids safe?' he might have taken the potion from his pocket and given it to him, but Remus ignored the reminder and focused on persuading Severus to let him and Sirius go free instead of the immediate danger he imposes.

There's no moment on the page of Snape making any decisions about giving Lupin a Potion or not. The line about Lupin forgetting to take his potion is just breezed over to get to how he found the map and came down here to catch him. I think the way it's written it's just supposed to be that Snape wants to come down, catch them, tie them up, and bring them back to Azkaban and he thinks they'll have plenty of time because he doesn't now how long they'll all wind up in there.

But he does release Remus from his bindings. And Remus thanks him rather than telling him it would actually be better to leave him bound, as he is scheduled to transform soon. Hmm.

Yeah, Remus's stubborn denial about his time of the month is kind of amazing in this chapter.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Indeed, she never grows in her moral outlook beyond this point and neither does any of her friends.
Not quite - Hermione sort of sees the point why they might get in trouble. Harry totally does NOT see the point of getting detention for filetting a Malfoy.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

As much as I hate this scene? It's better than the movie. I get how Snape might be concentrating on the bullies from his youth instead of realizing the kids he's trying to protect are a threat to his wellbeing. And it takes all three of them to put him down.

But in the movie? Harry points his wand at Snape, who registers this but still doesn't act, and then Harry alone blows him through the wall, wtf?! DO. NOT. WANT.

They could have bound him and revived him. Or revived him and immobilized him. In both cases he would have learned the facts without being able to get in their way and without sustaining more damage.

In a weird tangential way, this reminds me of X-files. Anytime Mulder witnessed something bizarre that confirmed his theories about the paranormal, be it aliens or shape-shifters or whatever other crazy-ass theory he came up with that week, Scully would be knocked unconscious or drugged or locked out of the room or something. *eyeroll* Because she couldn't witness any paranormal shenanigans and become a believer til David Duchovny ditched the show!

part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Sirius makes the Death Eaters sound a lot scarier and more intelligent in his speech than they actually are. Granted, that’s not hard.

Well, the DEs Sirius is most familiar with are those who were in neighboring cells in Azkaban. Sirius says he heard them screaming and muttering about Peter. But he doesn't tell us if they actually mentioned him by name, nickname or simply referred to some unnamed double-crosser. Nor does he realize that the other DEs in Azkaban may have learned of Peter's identity from Sirius' own screams. How many times does Sirius need to scream 'Damn you Wormtail for betraying James and Lily!' for his neighbors to start swearing at Wormtail for betraying the Dark Lord, even if they never heard the name before? Also, Sirius is mistaken in his assumption the DEs outside of Azkaban would want to kill Peter. Neither of them wants Voldemort back. Except for Barty Jr, who is locked up in the Crouch home and thought to be dead.

Sirius goes on about how Peter never did anything unless there was something in it for him - leaving us to wonder why the heck he went to Albania to Voldemort.

Sirius keeps stressing that it wasn’t a happy feeling but an obsession that got him out of Azkaban. Obsessions are the most powerful force in this series, for all they say about love.

This is the Potterverse! Obsession is love! Also, a justification for Snack, I think.

If only he’d thrown himself on Dumbledore’s mercy and allowed him to talk him out of jail and give him a position teaching Sirius would have lived a long and happy life.

Unless he was given the DADA job.

Peter should tell them all that Dumbledore ordered him to reveal the Potters’ location as part of Dumbledore’s own bigger plan and Sirius just messed it up by not telling the truth or something. Let’s face it, it’s totally something Dumbledore would do. What was the point of telling the enemy about the 7 Potters plan?

ROTFL.

Re: part 2

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Well, the DEs Sirius is most familiar with are those who were in neighboring cells in Azkaban.

Iirc, this causes some confusion elsewhere because it's unclear what DEs knew what about who and whether they spoke to each other too.

Sirius goes on about how Peter never did anything unless there was something in it for him - leaving us to wonder why the heck he went to Albania to Voldemort.

That's always the biggie with Peter. I assume we're supposed to think that now that he knows his friends are out to get him he figures Voldemort is the only who'll protect him, but of course it still seems weird that Peter would want Voldemort back. I think it comes down to the rules in this universe that cowardice makes you do whatever evil thing needs to be done. I believe most of the DEs are supposed to be following Voldemort because they're cowards, so that's why Peter does it too, as the biggest coward.

[elanor-x.livejournal.com]

LOL! Harry says if Lupin wanted to kill him he could have done it any time during the year and that means he’s not trying to kill him.

Harry chooses the perfect time to claim thus, a minute before we find out that Peter, the real villain, hasn't killed Harry at any time during the last 3 years. LOL!

Without Peter's old friends returning, Harry could quietly graduate from Hogwarts with V's servant not lifting a finger to harm him.

Hermione whimpers that they’ve attacked a teacher and will be in so much trouble. Nice to know that this part of Hermione’s ethical sense stays true throughout the books.

Nothing to do with ethics, right? I mean it's not like she thinks they did the wrong thing, she's just afraid of the punishment, influenced by Snape just mentioning the verb "expel".

Seriously, it doesn’t say much for the Marauders that they had this guy in their gang.

I cut them some slack about it since imo most fics got it right and let me "see" the situation from inside. James & Sirius, the two daredevils, took to each other from the start, but I doubt they would become interested in quiet Lupin, unless they shared a room. The same with Peter - you share a room for 7 years since age 11 and Peter tried very hard to belong. Besides, with parents (at least Sirius's parents thought of themselves & their offspring as superior kind of wizards, who should get special privileges), teachers and students fawning over them, Peter's behavior didn't stand out as much as it should've. And I doubt even Peter kept applauding and shrieking at their wonderfulness all the time.

Hermione asks how Sirius got out of Azkaban without using “Dark Magic.” WTH is Dark Magic?

Yes. And in this book a big deal was made out of The Tool against Dementors - Patronus too!

Sirius keeps stressing that it wasn’t a happy feeling but an obsession that got him out of Azkaban. Obsessions are the most powerful force in this series, for all they say about love.

Hmm, it even works for Merope - an obsession released her from the horrible home, gave her a great husband and a magically super-powerful son, but the moment it started to wane enough to let her see a person, instead of the object of her desires to be achieved at every cost, she lost everything. Neville needed only Bellatrix breaking out to shine. But I see a problematic counter-example - Voldemort, whose obsession with killing Harry himself cost him his life. Or you could say it works even for V, whose desire to kill Harry was smaller than his ego, so he was bent on doing it himself. A dementor in the forest or a Muggle hired killer would've helped.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's a good point about other people praising them nonstop too. I can actually imagine Peter being genuinely impressed at first and then just keeping it up when he saw how much James liked it.

I suppose there are places where peoples' obsessions mess them up too...it's really just a case of obsessions being the thing that makes people actually do something. Harry, for instance, never seems interested in finding things out until he's obsessed about Malfoy in HBP.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Harry chooses the perfect time to claim thus, a minute before we find out that Peter, the real villain, hasn't killed Harry at any time during the last 3 years. LOL!

*gigglefit* IKR?! Rock-solid defense it is not. I guess this is why Harry didn't become a lawyer.

Although considering the shambles of the wizarding world's legal sytem, or lack thereof...we could just have trials where Harry presides and declares the accused innocent or guilty based on his feelings about them. He got off to a good start there with Stan Shunpike, who was most definitely not a DE for...er, no reason at all, just his instinct or something.

V, whose desire to kill Harry was smaller than his ego, so he was bent on doing it himself.

As the rules for Evil Overlords dictate:
78. I will not tell my Legions of Terror "And he must be taken alive!" The command will be "And try to take him alive if it is reasonably practical."

:P

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

I cut them some slack about it since imo most fics got it right and let me "see" the situation from inside. James & Sirius, the two daredevils, took to each other from the start, but I doubt they would become interested in quiet Lupin, unless they shared a room. The same with Peter - you share a room for 7 years since age 11 and Peter tried very hard to belong. Besides, with parents (at least Sirius's parents thought of themselves & their offspring as superior kind of wizards, who should get special privileges), teachers and students fawning over them, Peter's behavior didn't stand out as much as it should've. And I doubt even Peter kept applauding and shrieking at their wonderfulness all the time.

Also, Peter's Animagus form was by far the most useful - what use is the ability to turn into a stag or a dog? Whereas, as a rat, Peter could help with all kinds of thefts and pranks.

You could also imagine that Peter & Lupin were friends originally, and when Lupin became friends with James and Sirius, Peter came along.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Wow, elide all of the "but the moon, it is a risin'" warnings/forebodings in your text and this review would be about two-thirds the size! :-) But yes, it was silly how all of these adults - well, Lupin and Snape - forgot all about it. Rowling 'foreshadowing' it but then making her characters stupid so she could have the transformation drama later on.

If I was Snape I would have been screaming THE WEREWOLF MUST TAKE HIS POTION, FIRST THINGS FIRST non-stop. Well, until I was rendered unconscious by my students.

The Trio all become masters of Snape’s wand. Not sure how that will work. Luckily we won’t know about it until DH.

Good on you for reminding us how Rowling destroyed her own series with her last book. You know, I still come across deluded fans who try and insist that the new wand lore of DH was there all the time in the earlier six books. Sheer and utter bollocks (excuse me). And they don't even try to explain why Rowling just happened to not MENTION or SHOW us the ever-fluctuating mastery of wands in those tomes. It was just, uhm, happening anyway, even though it was all invisible and no-one had problems at all with their wands, yeah, of course Jo knew all about it back then.

So sad.

Ron still hasn’t quite gotten up to speed on the rat thing. It’s really not that difficult Ron. You know Animagi exist and since YOU can recognize Scabbers apart from other rats, so can Black.

It was like we commented last post, Rowling invented her wizards and their world but she wasn't professional enough to properly get into her characters' heads and have them act consistently in character. Ron's wizarding upbringing was remembered at various points but at other times he was quite oblivious to things he should have known.

On the other hand, this IS Ronald Weasley, not the brightest wizard in the bunch ... :-)

The Weasleys were on the front page of the Prophet?

Heh, my anti-Ginny views intruded when I read that ... I had this vision of thousands, MILLIONS of wizards the world-wide all exclaiming about such a 'pretty girl' when they saw her visage on the front page.

But Ginny isn't heralded as being awesomely awesome until book 6. And she's only 12 here. Miss Hogwarts had yet to intrude. Still, it was a mildly amusing thought.

Correction: Even if he never thought anyone would be so stupid as to not make themselves their own secret keeper, which you can apparently do according to DH. That crash you heard was the entire Potters backstory, and thus the premise of this whole book, collapsing.

Yes. One of Rowling's most egregious mistakes of book 7; and that's saying something. The entire series collapses with that gaff. If only she'd employed a real editor, or understood her failings and gotten help!

We were talking about 'dark magic' in the comments of your last entry, viz Snape and his being thought to be growing evil by Lily because he was doing 'dark magic', I think. It's just something else that Rowling threw in there, to mean whatever she needed it to mean at the time. I took it to mean that Snape was being naughty.

[oryx_leucoryx]

If I was Snape I would have been screaming THE WEREWOLF MUST TAKE HIS POTION, FIRST THINGS FIRST non-stop. Well, until I was rendered unconscious by my students.

Well, he didn't bind Remus for nothing. If the students hadn't knocked Severus out Remus could have transformed safely. But why doesn't anyone make the connection? At least the adults. Yes, even Sirius. After all he did hang out outdoors all year, he should remember the moon phases.

Correction: Even if he never thought anyone would be so stupid as to not make themselves their own secret keeper, which you can apparently do according to DH. That crash you heard was the entire Potters backstory, and thus the premise of this whole book, collapsing.

Yes. One of Rowling's most egregious mistakes of book 7; and that's saying something. The entire series collapses with that gaff. If only she'd employed a real editor, or understood her failings and gotten help!

I can sort of imagine Dumbledore originally not telling the Potters that they could become their own Secret Keepers because he didn't want to be left out and then when they chose Sirius he couldn't tell them because they'd realize he wasn't playing straight. (The pro-Rowling crowd claims the 'being your own Secret Keeper' option was something added to the spell after the first war. Shrug.)

We were talking about 'dark magic' in the comments of your last entry, viz Snape and his being thought to be growing evil by Lily because he was doing 'dark magic', I think. It's just something else that Rowling threw in there, to mean whatever she needed it to mean at the time. I took it to mean that Snape was being naughty.


But all the concrete information we have about what he was doing are his spells. Mostly typical Hogwarts stuff, including Levicorpus which almost everyone thinks is funny - but which can be put to cruel use. Then there is Sectumsempra which can be used with varying degrees of force - yes, it can kill or cause permanent damage, but it can also be used to cause minor nicks that are easily healed, as Severus appears to have done. Now compare to other stuff that is not considered Dark Arts: Love Potions are something to laugh about (Molly), Memory Charms and mindwipes are nothing to be concerned about, really, candy that can choke you to death or cause severe bleeding etc can be used with some caution - but even when used carelessly isn't Dark magic at all, no way! So what is it that made young Severus a Dark wizard but not the twins? I understand that Rowling expects her readers to accept there is a difference, but she completely fails to support this. If at least we knew what it was that Mulciber attempted so we can tell if it was something that would be considered evil or funny compared to typical Hogwarts standard. Was Lily horrified because Mulciber did something really worse than typical or because the person who was hurt was a friend of hers?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Good on you for reminding us how Rowling destroyed her own series with her last book. You know, I still come across deluded fans who try and insist that the new wand lore of DH was there all the time in the earlier six books. Sheer and utter bollocks (excuse me). And they don't even try to explain why Rowling just happened to not MENTION or SHOW us the ever-fluctuating mastery of wands in those tomes. It was just, uhm, happening anyway, even though it was all invisible and no-one had problems at all with their wands, yeah, of course Jo knew all about it back then.

In my comments to chapter 17 I tried out one common fanwank to this problem - that if the disarming happens without intent to deprive the victim of his wand in the long term perhaps there is no change in mastery.


This is from there:

Sirius disarms Harry and Hermione. So he’s the master of their wands now, right? *rolls eyes*

And he does so with Ron's wand. So he mastered that one too. Oh, but he wasn't planning to keep the wands so it doesn't count? Do the wands know that? Does Sirius have to cross his fingers when he disarms the kids to prevent them from losing mastery of their wands?
----------

But here when the kids disarm Severus I bet at least the boys intended it very seriously. Had they been given a choice between temporarily depriving Severus of his wand or making the wand no longer compatible with him they'd have chosen the latter. And obviously neither of them knew of a 'cross your fingers and the victim retains mastery of his wand' rule or any other method of bypassing the wand mastery issue. So Severus should have lost mastery of his wand. Of course, for all we know he had to buy a new one over the summer. Maybe that's why he was mad at the kids. (In addition to injuring him, injuring him further while transporting him out of the tunnel and letting the traitor escape, whoever he turned out to be.) But if Rowling was serious about the wand mastery business she had plenty of opportunities to show it at work. The clearest one being Moody. Because Barty Jr definitely defeated him, used his wand successfully for a year and had no intention of returning it. Then in OOTP she has Moody complaining how his magical eye sticks after being used by Barty. He could have mentioned at the same opportunity that of course he also had to get a new wand because the old one was now useless. Not that hard to do when you have a plan.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

In all fairness, it *is* obvious that she was trying to periodically feed us clues that the whole climax of the faceoff between Tom and Harry was going to have something to do with a wand. And that really *was* there from the beginning. Mostly in the form of Olivander's gnomic utterances.

It is not by any means proven that what she originally had in mind was what she actually ended up giving us. I wouldn't be a bit surtprised to learn that she had some other denoument planned, and managed to paint herself into a corner that made it inaccessible. Or that she may have had what she thought ewas a better idea, or that she had simply forgotten it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I can't believe anybody seriously claiming there's any clue about that wand mastery stuff before DH where it's suddenly so obvious. I know some try to claim that it just adds to the original wandlore, but I don't buy that either. It totally trumps the originally ideas about wands.

Oh god, I can just imagine what would have happened if Ginny was on the front page once she revealed her "true" personality. Every boy in Hogwarts would be passing around the photo, I guess.

The Secret Keeper thing is SO egregious I'm amazed nobody caught it. She literally has Harry visit a cottage under the exact same protection and brushes aside the whole backstory by having Bill blithely say he's his own secret keeper so, you know, there won't be any danger from spies or anything else Voldemort could do to learn the secret!

Not that Voldemort's even looking for Bill. He's not interested in any of these people besides Harry.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Snape announces right away that Lupin forgot to take his Potion, but neither of them seem to think it’s urgent that he get on that.

Heh. Wouldn't it have been fun if Snape had whipped out a goblet and tried to force it down Lupin's throat at this moment?

This is one of the few times Snape isn’t letting his schoolboy grudge push him into doing something stupid.

As a staunch Snapista, I have to take you on task for this. When does Snape actually let that grudge push him into something stupid? When he puts little Harry on the spot? When he gets into a fight with Sirius about Harry's lessons? When he acts like a dick because Harry almost killed someone?

Not that Snape notices this. He immediately sinks to Harry’s level so the two can CAPSLOCK at each other about who ought to be on their knees thanking who. This might take a while.

Meanwhile, the moon’s just taking its time getting into the sky. No rush.

Bwahaha! That first paragraph made me laugh so hard. But the second one is even funnier. It reminds me of how Harry, Hermione, and Ron sit around having dinner and chit-chatting about Dumbledore's life story while Harry's getting visions of Voldemort OMG! getting closer and closer to Hogwarts!

Lupin gets to his feet and starts calmly planning a demonstration with Scabbers.

This is why Lupin's such a cool teacher. If it was Snape, he'd just magically write the words "THE RAT IS REALLY PETER PETTIGREW" on a blackboard and make them copy it down.

The Weasleys were on the front page of the Prophet? Okay, I take it back. It really must have been a slow news day.

Well, you know, Harry's sort of the Brittney Spears of the Wizarding tabloids. I guess that makes the Weasleys the K-Feds.

And also if Snape wasn’t lying on the floor here all this time. Really, the guy hasn’t done much wrong here and nobody has felt at all badly for injuring him. I’m not saying you have to rush him to safety (though that would have the added bonus of GETTING THE WEREWOLF TO HIS POTION) but nobody cares at all they’ve knocked him unconscious.

It's funny, but I never really realized (until hundreds of Snape fans kept pointing this out) how thoughtless it is to leave an unconscious man lying on the ground with only a cursory check that he isn't dead. If that were real life, you'd be calling 911 stat! And checking his Airway, Breathing, Circulation (ABC) every few minutes to make sure he didn't die on you.

I love that Sirius explains they made him the Secret Keeper because everybody knows he’s so pathetic they would never guess they’d put faith in him. This is the reason I can’t ever really hate Peter when the worm turned.

Ah, Peter! The Benjamin Linus of the WW.

Peter and Draco are both given jobs based on their being completely unsuitable for them

Just like Harry!




It wasn't the grudge that made Snape stupid. It was love. Lily love that drove him into his most stupid act: that of agreeing to wear Dumbledore's chain for the rest of his life.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

As a staunch Snapista, I have to take you on task for this. When does Snape actually let that grudge push him into something stupid? When he puts little Harry on the spot? When he gets into a fight with Sirius about Harry's lessons?

I probably should have just said "act like an idiot." I was mostly just thinking of his needing to pick on Harry. When it comes to actual actions Snape is actually one of the few characters who usually does the smartest thing, iirc.

Hee! Peter as Ben Linus. I love it!

It just cracks me up in this scene how Snape's being knocked out is obviously just a relief to get him to shut up for the rest of the scene. Nobody checks him out at all. And you know he's fine, it's just hilarious to think of him lying there.

[oryx_leucoryx]

So: DiaryTom grabbed Harry's wand. Did Harry destroying the diary restore the mastery to him?

What about when the invisible Barty Jr took his wand at the QWC? Or did the wand actually belong to Sirius, or perhaps Remus because of the events of POA ch 17? If the latter is true does that mean Barty was the master of Remus' wand too all those months? Then Barty becomes the master of Alastor Moody's wand, as well as the wands of all the DEs that Moody ever arrested. When Dumbledore defeated Barty did he become the master of the wands of Barty, Moody, all the DEs Moody ever arrested, as well as possibly the master of Harry's wand (assuming Barty had it and retained it)? And when Draco disarmed Dumbles he got mastery over all these wands? And then Harry did?

BTW when Voldemort was defeated at Godric's Hollow who became master of that wand (and all the wands Voldemort ever defeated)?

The stupidity of this is endless.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Ugh, there's no point even trying to figure out that ridiculous plot point. What's insulting is that it was ever conceived and then actually published. How dumb does she think fans are, FFS? It left a gaping hole in wandlore and rendered everything that happened in the previous books irrelevant...but this is the woman who decided to attack the very foundation of her series by making it possible for someone to be their own Secret-Keeper. *eyeroll*

Severus' wand

[oryx_leucoryx]

Since we know Albus disarmed Severus in that hilltop meeting, then unless Severus got himself a new wand since then, the kids couldn't have mastered his wand because the wand belonged to Dumbledore all along. I wonder how Severus could have managed all the years.