COS Chapter Five: "The Whomping Willow"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

 

* Harry spends six weeks of the school holidays at the Dursleys’ house, and for the rest of the year he’s a massive celebrity who can basically do whatever he likes because of something that he can’t remember and had nothing to do with. Doesn’t sound to me like he’s got much reason to be jealous of Ron.

* Is the fact that dinner contains all Harry’s favourite things a coincidence, or did Mrs. Weasley deliberately design it that way? If so, is she already trying to snare Harry in order to get her hands on some of his money? *Grins at the thought of MoneyGrubbing!Molly*

* Somehow I can’t imagine the Malfoys being so disorganised.

* “Muggles do know more than we given them credit for, don’t they?” says Mrs. Weasley, the big joke being that they don’t, it’s all magic. Wizards rule!

* The Weasley parents let Fred and George take fireworks to school? Christ, it’s no wonder they’re so badly-behaved.

* Also, couldn’t they just take the kids to the station, then later mail them the things they’ve left behind?

* Still, the foreshadowing of Ginny’s diary is nicely done, though, so I forgive JKR for this minor plot hole.

* Is it really necessary to run into the barrier? Surely standing casually near it and then slipping through when nobody’s looking would be less likely to attract attention.

* Yes, Ron, of course all those grown-up, fully-qualified wizards on Platform 9 ¾ aren’t going to be able to figure a way of getting back. *rolls eyes*

* “The Dursleys haven’t given me pocket money in about six years,” says Harry, implying that they did until he was six years old. I wonder what he bought then that made them decide he couldn’t be trusted with his own money?

* That flying car plan has got to rate as one of the stupidest in the books, and as you can imagine, it’s up against some stiff competition.

* If Harry and Ron had really become invisible, they’d be blind, although to be fair to JKR this little problem with the laws of physics isn’t exactly unique to her.

* The description of the car flying above the clouds is good. Really brings out the wonderment Harry and Ron must be feeling.

* Any guesses as to which city they’re seeing? I was thinking it might be Birmingham or Manchester or somewhere like that, but the “wide, purplish moors” would seem to imply that they’re further north than that.

* Pumpkins aren’t particularly juicy, so it must take a lot to get enough for the whole school to drink. I can’t imagine why wizards drink pumpkin as opposed to, say, orange or apple juice.

* An impact hard enough to raise a golf-ball-sized lump on someone’s head would knock most people out, but Harry is a Gryffindor, and therefore above trivial injuries such as concussion.

* Wonder if there’s meant to be any Freudian symbolism in Ron having a broken wand? :p

* I probably shouldn’t ask why charming a car to make it fly would make it gain sentience.

* Harry looks through the window into the Great Hall, and the reader is treated to a rare sighting of the elusive Hogwarts school hat.

* Now I'm imagining watching a Springwatch-type programme set in Hogwarts, where the presenters set up hidden cameras around the school in the hope of getting a glimpse of one of the school hats.

* “For a few horrible seconds”, Harry had worried that he’d be put in Slytherin. One of the clearest indications in the books that we’re meant to think of being put in Slytherin as a sign of great evil.

* Harry seems to show a remarkable knowledge of colours here. I doubt I’d be able to recognise aquamarine when I saw it.

* The narrative voice pauses to bitch about how “everyone” hates Snape for a few sentences, inexplicably omitting to mention that he saved Harry’s life last year.

* BTW, I highly doubt that Snape was disliked by “everyone outside of his own house (Slytherin)”. In my experience, children tend to quite like the sarcastic teachers.

* Unless by “everyone” Jo means “everyone who matters”, i.e., Harry, Ron and Hermione.

* Snape’s suddenly appearing behind them like that is pretty funny.

* So how is it that the Evening Prophet can interview these Muggles, write the story, print the paper, and send it up to Scotland in less time than it takes Harry and Ron to fly directly from London to Hogwarts? If I were doing Jabootu scores, this would definitely be a case of offscreen teleportation.

* Why would someone travelling from London to Scotland go via Norfolk? Do wizards just like the countryside there?

* Harry hasn’t thought of what effect his stupid actions will have on others. Well, colour me shocked!

* No idea what the “large, slimy something suspended in green liquid” is there for. Probably to add to the atmosphere.

* I’m surprised McGonagall is so angry. One would have thought that, as a Gryffindor, she’d prize reckless action without any thought.

* Harry told the story as if he and Ron just happened to find a flying car, making them look like a pair of criminals as well as a pair of idiots, and continuing in the long tradition of lying to save the arses of adults who really should know better.

* Harry’s being worried about Gryffindor losing points is rather sweet. It’d be interesting to see how the hourglasses in the Great Hall show Gryffindor being on negative points, though.

* One detention each sounds like a pretty inadequate punishment, TBH.

* Is it possible to conjure up food out of thin air, then? If so, wizards could pretty much solve world hunger without any problems at all. That they don’t makes them look rather selfish and insular.

* “Breaking the law? Cool!” Seems Twinkly’s favouritism has given the Gryffindors something of an entitlement complex when it comes to breaking rules. At least Percy and Hermione have the right idea.

* If there are only five second-year Gryffindor boys, and the same amount of girls, and this number is about right for every House and every year, then there would only be 280 children in Hogwarts in total. Which would seem to contradict slightly the description of Hogwarts as a huge castle, or the dining hall as larger than the Dursleys’ house. Oh dear maths/architecture/consistency/worldbuilding…

* Meanwhile, Draco Malfoy goes to sleep in the Slytherin dorms, muttering, “Stupid Potter with his stupid broomstick and his stupid flying car and his stupid ginger boyfriend, he can do literally anything and get away with just a detention.” Little does he realise that he will be proved right in Year 6, after a certain incident in the bathrooms.

 

Comments

Re: Stupid train

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Fair enough - it just seems that your theories are applicable to a world with more flexible metaphysical rules than the Potterverse seems to have.

Though I do have to take issue with the suggestion that American wizarding schools would incorporate the native traditions - given that wizards seem on the whole to be more conservative, insular, and xenophobic than their Muggle counterparts, they'd probably despise the natives even more than the Muggle colonists. I think the native magical traditions, whatever they were, would by the time the books are set have almost entirely died out due to the immigrant wizards persecuting the natives.

Re: Stupid train

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Fair enough - it just seems that your theories are applicable to a world with more flexible metaphysical rules than the Potterverse seems to have.

Definitely. Even within Potterverse I see an American magickal community being much less rigid and bureacratic than the European community Rowling presents.

But in my view of a world-wide magikal community, I see it overall as being much less corporate, bureacratic, and rule-bound than what Rowling apparantly sees. But that may be due to my associating with a bunch of Wiccans back a couple of eras ago -- they tend to be a fairly anarchistic bunch! LOL


Though I do have to take issue with the suggestion that American wizarding schools would incorporate the native traditions - given that wizards seem on the whole to be more conservative, insular, and xenophobic than their Muggle counterparts,

Remember, I'm positing a world separate from what Rowling has posited, so I don't think that wizards and witches in the Old World would necessarily be any more, or less, "conservative, insular, and xenophobic" than their nonmagikal counterparts...

Which isn't to say that immigrants did NOT have conservative, insular, or xenophobic streaks -- just look at the prejudice each new wave of immigration incurred.

But I look at it this way; if *I* were a witch in England in 1740, what would be an incentive for me to immigrate. If I'm fairly well-off, there is none.

But if I come from a magikal family like the Gaunts, or even a family like the Weasleys where there are so many siblings that it adversely effects income, then I may consider moving to another land. I can especially see magikal people of somewhat shady character doing this, as they may have figured they'd have a "leg up" in the New World that the Old World wasn't giving them.

And as I mentioned in my other post, those whom Rowling calls "squibs" -- those who carry a magikal gene but don't have overt magikal abilities, would definitely be amongst those coming to the colonies. They may not even have known they carried a magikal gene, but then one day their child or grandchild suddenly starts doing wierd things! LOL

And I don't think that magikal immigrants as a whole would have necessary embraced the native traditions -- but we do see a tradition in American folk medicine where European immigrants adopted and adapted Native American folk medicines, so the precedent exists.

I actually see many of the early magikal immigrants being part of the group of wilderness explorers who decided they'd rather live on the fringe of the frontier and have more interaction with Indian tribes, than deal with "regular folk" in towns and cities...

Again, the only thing my theory has to do with Rowling's universe is the premise that there are wizards and witches, and that said witches and wizards formed some sort of cohesive (albeit mostly secret) community sometime in the past. My view of their world, and how they interact with nonmagikal people, differs in many respects to what Rowling views.

Re: Stupid train

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Immigrant witches and wizards might also tend toward solitary or fringe living out of fear of being persecuted by immigrant Muggles (or whatever you're going to call them) and so be more inclined and, even, more impelled to consort with the native witches and wizards, who may also be persecuted by the ordinary folk from their tribes (or at least held at arm's distance out of fear when they're not needed). The need to band together to repel attacks, the need to commune with like-talented people, would throw the two together, especially if Muggles out-number witches and wizards in the same sort of way as they do in the Potterverse. And there's always the prejudices against Europeans of other countries that might send the Europeans to the natives instead of to a settlement of a different European nation. Like finds like and hybrid traditions are born.

American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

Except that as a matter-of-course, native Americans rather honored their magikal people, so unless a medicine man or woman went "rogue" -- performing the equivalent of "dark magik", which would only attract European magikal folk if they themselves were inclined in that direction...

Otherwise, European magikal folk in the very early days would probably have found themselves welcomed by the native Americans, definitely more welcomed amongst the Indians than they would have been in the fundamentalist Christian cult communities of New England...

That said -- and remember, I am a native of Connecticut -- there are lots of areas here in New England that the native tribes steered clear of -- much of the eastern part of this state was considered "bad medicine" by the native tribes, and indeed one of our state parks in that part of the state is called "Devil's Hopyard", because the European immigrants agreed that something just was not right in that neck of the woods.

It's also the area where most of the state's vampire legends occur, too, and to this day people claim to hear strange noises and "explosions" in the woods...

So Indians may have had their own version of "dark wizards", who knows?

I think that the American magikal community would be -- and definitely become -- as diverse as it's nonmagikal counterpart. Wizards and witches who gravitated to large cities, where it would actually be easier to be secret, would develop a different culture to wizards and witches who traveled the countryside in a covered wagon billing themselves as a traveling medicine show.

A wizard or witch living West Virginia would probably have the respect of nonmagikal people in the area if said wizard/witch provided the only medical care available for either human or animal...and their knowledge of magik, especially potions, was probably enhanced by spells and potions gathered from native Americans, also from African slaves.

Magikal folk living on the frontier would by necessity have more interaction with native Americans than with other people of European extraction; such wizards and witches may have even preferred living on the frontier for just that reason.

And yes, there would be prejudice on the part of those of European descent who were already here, against whatever group of Europeans from another country were immigrating at that point...

So the descendents of the original English colonists would distrust German immigrants, who in turn distrusted the Irish, who in turn distrusted the Poles, who in turn distrusted the Jews, who in turn distrusted the Italians, etc.

But each group would have it's own magikal traditions, and even tho each new wave of immigration encountered discrimination, we ended up with a melting pot as subsequent generations intermarried...

So the British tradition would be modified by German traditions, then furthered modified by Irish traditions, Polish traditions, Jewish traditions, Italian traditions...in addition to what was garnered from native American and African slave traditions...

Therefore I can't believe that American Magik would be anything like the magikal traditions of any one other country, or even another region of the old world...it would be a totally new animal.

And when I use the term "American", I also include Canada, and Central and South America...and I think there would be vast differences between U.S.A. magikal traditions and those in Latin American countries...

Hmmmm...one wonders just who of the United States' Founding Fathers may have been a wizard???

;-)

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[koi-no-soshan.livejournal.com]

Except that as a matter-of-course, native Americans rather honored their magikal people, so unless a medicine man or woman went "rogue" -- performing the equivalent of "dark magik", which would only attract European magikal folk if they themselves were inclined in that direction...

That's a very good point. Actually, one thing I find odd about HP is the International Statute of Secrecy, for this very reason... There are so many cultures around the world in which magic-users were an accepted part of society. The Americas, Japan (Buddhist and Shinto monks, priests, priestesses), Korea (mudang)... In ancient Egypt, there were the magicians and priests, and the Pharaoh's position was not just political but spiritual... So many cultures all over the world should, in HP, have no need or desire for the Statute of Secrecy.

Magical creatures, too. All throughout Asia, magical creatures have a huge tradition in the religions there- and typically good ones. There are dangerous creatures, but the idea of 'demonic' creatures isn't really present in the same way. In Japan the child of a mythical creature and a human has the chance of having spiritual powers- there was a onmyouji said to be the grandson of a fox, I think, and the emperor is descended from a dragon.

Though, I doubt Rowling ever considered the changes that would be made in HP's Asia if dragons were like her monstrous Chinese Fireballs, rather than the dragon kings and such. That would have an effect on the culture, drat it.

In a world like HP with magic very loudly real, and in these cultures where it was highly integrated and had an accepted place amongst them... There should have been a great deal of resistance to any effort by the Europeans to force magic into hiding.

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Perhaps the "international" part of the Statute of Secrecy only refers to Western European nations and former colonies where Western attitudes took over (those in power having Western attitudes, that is), like America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia? Unless the books explicitly specify differently.

Then JKR's just a culturally-ignorant dunderhead. ;)

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Western attitude, that term makes me think cowboy wizards.

Here in the USA our wizards don't wear pointy hats! And they use two wands instead of one. :p

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Western attitude, that term makes me think cowboy wizards.

I have it on good authority that Pecos Pete was definitely a wizard... ;-)

And we obviously also have not only regular giants -- Paul Bunyan -- but giant blue oxes, too...


Here in the USA our wizards don't wear pointy hats! And they use two wands instead of one. :p

Smith and Wesson were also wizards... LOL

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

A western wizard whistled while widdling a wand.

Try that one 3 times fast.

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

There are so many cultures around the world in which magic-users were an accepted part of society.

Exactly. I too found it odd that Rowling establishes an international secrecy statute, when such a thing only makes sense in western European countries that underwent the Inquisistion.

Even countries that were predominantly one of the eastern Orthodox Christian religions were tolerant of other beliefs and never mounted a concerted campaign of terror against other religions of whatever flavor.

As you point out, in the Far East magikal folk were considered an intrinsic part of society, and very often a ruler would have a wizard/witch, or priest/priestess with magikal powers as a trusted advisor.

So to in the Middle and Near East -- even in Islamic tradition one finds rulers with magikal advisors, or dealing with djin...

Hindus, Buddhists, African Animists, all honor their wizards/witches/witch doctors/medicine men/medicine women/wise men/wise women...

Heck, even in the Bible there's the story of The Three Wise Men who traveled from the East when Jesus was born -- those three were actually astrologer/magicians either from Assyria, or perhaps as far away as India...and both Herod and the Holy Family welcomed them...


Magical creatures, too. All throughout Asia, magical creatures have a huge tradition in the religions there- and typically good ones. There are dangerous creatures, but the idea of 'demonic' creatures isn't really present in the same way.

Oh yeah....I watch anime! LOL

I've always thought it odd that the belief in dragons pretty much spans the globe, but while in Europe dragons are thought to be evil and Satanic, in the orient they are thought to be lucky...

That's another thing I thought was odd in Rowling's Potterverse, the fact that there are no demon-type critters, whether good or evil...


In Japan the child of a mythical creature and a human has the chance of having spiritual powers- there was a onmyouji said to be the grandson of a fox, I think, and the emperor is descended from a dragon.

Inuyasha. ;-)


In a world like HP with magic very loudly real, and in these cultures where it was highly integrated and had an accepted place amongst them... There should have been a great deal of resistance to any effort by the Europeans to force magic into hiding.

Exactly. I'd have no problem if Rowling had presented the secrecy statute as a sort of European Union thing -- but I just don't buy that it would have been able to have been imposed world-wide, I just don't see the Wizanmagot having that sort of power.

And sadly, it rather smacks of British Imperialistic mindthink -- that The White Man, even when he's magikal -- knows better than people of a darker hue. Which is an odd sentiment for Rowling, who professes a more liberal political bent, to present.

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Very good point about the British racist imperialism inherent in the notion of the ISoS as presented in canon. (And Rowling, IMHO, has a history of saying one thing, and even genuinely believing she really means it, while subconsciously doing things supporting the opposite in her writing.)

RE demons: we do know they exist in the Potterverse, actually. Kappas are mentioned as water-demons, and the Dementors are IMHO clearly meant to be rather demonic in nature.

Re: American magikal communities (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

RE demons: we do know they exist in the Potterverse, actually. Kappas are mentioned as water-demons, and the Dementors are IMHO clearly meant to be rather demonic in nature.

But Rowling doesn't present a demon universe like one sees in oriental folklore, where demons can be in human form (or not); they can be good, bad, or indifferent to humans; but they are definitely more powerful than humans.

You need to keep in mind that what in English is translated as "demon" when translating oriental folklore has little or nothing to do with the demons and "demonic" entities that western Christian tradition has created.

It's like how I pointed out the differences in how dragons are viewed in the different cultures; western tradition views dragons as evil, eastern tradition views them as harbingers of luck. Western tradition states that demons are servants of Satan, while the concept of Satan has no meaning in eastern religions. In those cultures, "demons" are more akin to ancient elemental spirits that perhaps predate mankind. Ditto "demons" in native American folklore.

Founding fathers a wizard?

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Ben!

And Abigail A, bless her sneaky little heart....

I'd like to claim Tom, but I really think he was just a run-of-the-mill Muggle genius.

Re: Founding fathers a wizard?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Ahh, we think alike! ;-)

I definitely could see Ben Franklin being a wizard. And the Adams also came to mind, John in addition to Abigail; they were rather ahead of their time in regards to smallpox innoculations and "practical magik", especially Abigail.

And I would tend to agree with your assessment of Jefferson -- altho he perhaps associated with men he knew were wizards, perhaps that was part of his store of knowledge.

Native traditions post 1692

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Moreover, Europe is the source of the Statute of Secrecy--and the signatories thereto. Post 1692, a witch living in "civilized" Europe is bound by treaty to hide her powers from her non-magical neighbors. THIS IS NOT YET TRUE IN THE NEW (OR OLD) WORLD.

So Anishinabe, Dineh, Seminole, etc. shamans are openly practising among their people. Not separated from them at all. (As is also true in much of Africa and Asia, of course.)

So the other reason for European witches and wizards to immigrate, is to practice among their non-magical neighbors without having to hide what they are.

Grin--now shall we speculate why the Seminoles managed never to lose formally to the full military might of the the US?

Forget Guns, Germs, and Steel! This is more fun.

Re: Native traditions post 1692

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Forget Guns, Germs, and Steel! This is more fun.

There's no reason you can't combine the two...

Ow. I think my head just exploded.

But really, think of the potential implications for potions. And wands, to some extent.

Re: Stupid train

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

But in my view of a world-wide magikal community, I see it overall as being much less corporate, bureacratic, and rule-bound than what Rowling apparantly sees. But that may be due to my associating with a bunch of Wiccans back a couple of eras ago -- they tend to be a fairly anarchistic bunch! LOL


And I don't think that magikal immigrants as a whole would have necessary embraced the native traditions -- but we do see a tradition in American folk medicine where European immigrants adopted and adapted Native American folk medicines, so the precedent exists.

Yes, but that's because you're talking about real-world magical traditions, which are more flexible and open to this sort of syncretism that what in the Potterverse seems to be a more scientific force. Wiccan magic was influenced by Crowley, who was influenced by the Golden Dawn, who were influenced by the Western esoteric tradition, which was derived from the stuff attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, which was... it's a lot more vibrant and organic than Rowling's stuff.

Sorry to keep going on about this. I'm from Doctor Who fandom - fanwank is serious business to some of us :)

American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

fanwank is serious business to some of us :)

Yes, yes it is... ;-)

But I guess I haven't stressed it strongly enough: my theory of American magikal history is purely my own construct, and does not owe or borrow anything from Rowling's Potterverse...

At this point it's just a game I sometimes play in my head; sort of a "what if we look at this particular historical event thru the filter of there really being witches and wizards/warlocks in the world?"

Re: American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Technically JKR hasn't said a whole lot about the USA version of magic - she showed us a couple of witches at a Quidditch match, showed us they had an American flag up but other than that we have nothing much else to go on.

So whatever opinion is thrown out by anyone about USA magic is going to be their own. I don't even know what fanwank is but I don't think June's ideas qualifies since the term fanwank sounds like something JKR has probably done herself.

Re: American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

I don't even know what fanwank is

It's basically being a stickler for accuracy within the constructs of canon of whatever bit of entertainment one is a fan of: the Harry Potter books, Dr. Who TV shows, James Bond movies, etc.

My ideas that I play with regarding a possible American Magikal History predate Rowling because, as I think I may have previously said, I've been a student of American History, especially colonial history, since my teens, and I also used to hang around with Wiccans in my 20s and 30s...and I'm now 57.

So the two ideas have sort of cooked in my fevered brain (more so since I came down with a wicked bug last Friday night!) -- like, what if American folk tales of Paul Bunyan, Rip Van Winkle, Pecos Bill, and I would say Mike Fink, but perhaps not after reading the following (but I'd definitely put Mrs. Crockett down as a likely candidate to be a witch!, had a basis in magikal "fact"?:

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/sally_ann_thunder_ann_whirlwin.html


Some additional folk tales that are suggestive of wizards/witches and magikal critters:

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/connecticut_yankee.html

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/08/aunty_greenleaf_and_the_white.html

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/birth_of_the_jersey_devil.html

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/henry_hudson_and_the_catskill.html

http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/the_red_dwarf_of_detroit.html

Re: American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Wow. Great site! Thanks for the links.

Re: American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

You're welcome.

I really think that tale of Davy Crockett's wife shows that not only was she a witch, she was so powerful that she didn't need a normal wand, just a toothpick! LOL

Re: American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[oryx_leucoryx]

Rip Van Winkle type stories existed long before the American version. The idea of one-way time travel into moderately distant future has been around quite a bit.

Re: American magikal history (was: Stupid train)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

UFOlogist Jacques Vallee pointed that out in his writings back in the 70s and 80s -- that when he was growing up in France there were any number of "fairy tales" regarding people meeting some sort of "wee people" (sometimes actually having been abducted by the magikal folk), and while it seemed that they had only spent one night amongst the fairies/elves/trolls/leprechauns, that a much longer period of time had actually elapsed.

Vallee made a connection between these worldwide fairy tales and the description many UFO abductees provide: they either come across, or are abducted by, a type of "wee folk" who keep them for what seems like only a few minutes or an hour or so, but when the person returns they find out that a much longer period of time has elapsed.

Whitley Streiber, who's written about his own alleged alien abductions, lives smack in the middle of Rip Van Winkle country... ;-)