COS Chapter Nine: "The Writing on the Wall"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* Ooh, we’re half-way through the book! :)

 

* Lockhart’s looking “excited and important”, which is the sort of description usually reserved for Percy. Is this foreshadowing for Percy’s evilness in OOTP?

* I like the idea of Picture!Lockharts curling their hair so much that I won’t bother asking where they got the rollers from or why they needed them.

* I wonder why Snape’s trying not to smile. He doesn’t seem to have any particular grudge against Filch – in fact, he’d probably sympathise with him as a fellow outcast – so maybe it’s Lockhart’s behaviour he finds amusing?

* Harry feels sorry for Filch, but “not nearly as sorry as he felt for himself”, continuing the long tradition of self-pity in these books.

* Love Lockhart’s backtracking here, BTW. “Ah! I thought so!”

* Filch seems to be ashamed of the fact that he’s a Squib, whereas Hermione’s never been ashamed of her Mudblood status (and nor, as far as we know, have any Muggleborns), suggesting that Squibs have lower status than Muggleborns. Insulting people for being Squibs is still worse than insulting them for being Muggleborns, though.

* Harry’s sure that nothing Snape has to say will do him any good. Even though Snape’s spent most of last year saving Harry’s life.

* Snape’s logic may be leading him to the wrong conclusion, but at least he’s using logic, which is more than we can say for most characters in the books.

* Contrary to what Professor McGonagall says, there is evidence that Harry’s done something wrong. It may be circumstantial evidence, but it’s evidence nonetheless.

* So is Dumbledore reading Harry’s mind here? Because I have to say that the idea of the epitome of goodness going around violating people’s privacy like that seems a bit disturbing.

* “Hearing voices no-one else can hear isn’t a good sign, even in the wizarding world.” Erm, how do you know, Ron? This is, after all, a world with time travel, teleportation and transfiguration. For all you know, there might be some obscure bit of magic that only allows certain people to hear a sound.

* Ron’s laughing at Filch being a Squib, thereby teaching readers the value of tolerance.

* Ron seems happy that Filch is a Squib because Filch is such a bitter jerk. Apparently it doesn’t occur to him that Filch is such a bitter jerk because he’s a Squib, and that, if he were a normal wizard, he might be quite a nice person.

* No, Harry, Snape hasn’t tried to frame you for anything; he’s merely made a reasonable (if incorrect) deduction from the evidence available to him.

* I hope that at least one of the teachers tried to “Sourgify” the writing away before setting Filch on it with the mess remover.

* Aww, Filch’s portrayal here is so sad. :’(

* Ron doesn’t think Ginny should worry about Mrs. Norris being petrified, because she’s not very nice. Remember, kids, it’s OK for someone to be attacked if they annoy you in some way!

* As per usual, Ron’s is a few inches shorter than everyone else’s.

* Someone should tell Hermione that writing far more than you’re meant to is not a sign of intelligence. Learning to write briefly/choose only the most important points to include is a valuable skill to learn. If I’d handed in an essay that was ¼ over the word limit, my teachers would not have been happy.

* Hey, Hermione’s refusing to help Ron cheat with his homework. Maybe she should do this more often; he might actually learn something then.

* I don’t know what subject it was that JKR used to teach, but I’d be willing to bet it wasn’t History.

* So why is Dumbledore letting Binns teach? Hogwarts is, after all, the only wizard school in Britain; for DD to hire a bad teacher is, therefore, even worse than for a normal headmaster to hire one. He could well be putting literally every single wizarding child off studying history for life.

* Or maybe it’s just a cunning plan to stop them from investigating his own rather… interesting childhood.

* It seems that mediaeval wizarding society was so advanced, they all had surnames several centuries before they were introduced into Muggle society.

* I can’t help but wonder how Gryffindor and Slytherin managed to work together for so long; who to admit is, after all, a pretty fundamental disagreement. Perhaps Slytherin was initially OK with the idea of accepting Muggleborns, but them something happened (maybe one of them tried to betray the school?) that changed his mind.

* No, Ron, no-one’s said anything about Slytherin starting all this Pureblood stuff, simply that he agreed with it. There’s no evidence that this was a particularly rare view back in the tenth century.

* Also, in his haste to condemn Salazar as a “twisted old loony”, Ron seems not to have considered what it would say about Godric Gryffindor if he’d decided to start a school with such a man.

* Plus, of course, wishing to exclude Muggleborns is quite reasonable in an age when Muggles will literally kill you if they ever find out you’re a wizard.

* Maybe that explains all the Pureblood supremacy stuff: back in the old days, when Muggles were out to get magical people, wizards with Muggle relatives could well have divided loyalties, and so would naturally be seen as potential fifth columnists. The most trustworthy wizards would, therefore, be the ones with no Muggle relatives, and who would consequently be loyal only to the wizarding world. By the time Muggles stopped persecuting wizards and the danger of betrayal went away, the whole “Pureblood = best” thing was so heavily ingrained in wizarding culture that it is still present today.

* Considering Ron’s condescending attitude towards Muggles, I’d be a bit more cautious about getting on my high horse if I were him. He’s really a bit like a BNP member criticising a Nazi for being a racist.

* Am I the only one for whom “I wouldn’t be in his House if you paid me. Honestly, if the Sorting Hat had tried to put me in Slytherin, I’d’ve got the train straight back home…” brought flashbacks to “Imagine being in Hufflepuff. I think I’d leave, don’t you?”

* The sad thing is, all this “You could have been great in Slytherin” stuff could have been an excellent opportunity to show that “Slytherin” and “evil” are not synonymous. As it is, though, it comes across as a moral test that Harry has passed. The sign of true goodness = hating Slytherin House.

* Hermione’s really got a high opinion of old Dumbles, hasn’t he? Dumbledore couldn’t cure Mrs. Norris, ergo Mrs. Norris’ attacker can’t be human. What was it I said about elementary logic and the Hogwarts curriculum?

* Nice to see that Fred was already showing strong bullying tendencies by the age of five. And a remarkable control of magic, too, if he was able to turn a teddy bear into a spider without any training or a wand. Remind you of anyone?

* Hermione’s laughing at Ron’s obvious trauma, which, given what we now know about JKR’s views on love, is probably meant to be A Clue for their eventual marriage.

* So Hogwarts can buy golden plates for all its pupils, but not keep its toilets in good order. Clearly, Dumbledore’s been diverting funds from the sanitation department into the crockery-buying department.

* Percy’s noticed how upset Ginny is, whereas neither Ron, Harry nor Hermione have. Remember this when she tells everybody about Percy’s girlfriend.

* “You don’t care about Ginny,” says Ron, even though all the evidence in the books points to him being the only one of his family who actually cares about her.

* Given the rudeness of Ron’s remark, five points from Gryffindor is quite a mild punishment.

* Gosh, the Percy-hate’s really coming strong here, isn’t it? Now the trio are reluctant to even sit near him in the common room.

* “‘Let’s think,’ said Ron in mock puzzlement. ‘Who do we know who thinks Muggle-borns are scum?’” The correct answer is “No-one, because JKR can’t write a convincing racist.”

* It’s a bit like if, when Harper Lee wrote To Kill a Mockingbird, Tom Robinson, instead of being a poor labourer, was a respected teacher or something like that. And instead of framing him for rape, Bob Ewell had called him a “nigger”. And instead of doing this pretty much every time he met him, Bob had used this insult maybe one or two times a year. And instead of doing this to every black person he met, Bob only insulted Tom. And if instead of being motivated by blind prejudice, Bob had a perfectly understandable reason for disliking him. And instead of agreeing with Bob’s insults, everyone just ignored him. And instead of being poor and oppressed, Maycomb’s black population were well-integrated and treated as equals with the town’s white people. And instead of being a common insult, “nigger” was rare enough that Tom had to ask one of his friends what it meant. And then the audience are expected to react as if Bob’s an evil bigot making Tom’s life hell, instead of just a minor irritant which any reasonably well-balanced person would ignore.

* Even if we accept for argument’s sake that Draco is a racist, that still isn’t very good evidence for him being Slytherin’s heir. There are, after all, lots of racists in the world; and besides, there’s always the possibility that Slytherin Jnr. would be hiding his racism so as not to draw suspicion on himself.

* Oh, wait, silly me, that’s not the only evidence Ron has. Draco’s also ugly. Because ugliness is a sure sign of badness, obviously.

* Oh, and his father’s “evil” (bear in mind that, so far, about the worst he’s done is insult Mr. Weasley, which is unpleasant, certainly, but not evil). Because Slytherin was so evil, all his descendants would be, too.

* Not that blood’s important in any way, or anything like that.

* And upon this foundation of spurious conjecture, Ron goes on to build a whole edifice of even more spurious conjecture, suggesting that the Malfoys have been handing the key down, father to son, throughout the centuries.

* Yeah Ron, try presenting that evidence in court, and see how far it gets you.

* And by “court”, I mean a proper Muggle one with juries and presumptions of innocence and all the various other safeguards designed to prevent wrongful imprisonment, not one of the kangaroo courts that pass for justice in the wizarding world.

* It is, as Hermione says, “possible”. But, in the absence of any other evidence, it’s no more possible than any of the other thousands of possibilities. (Hey, perhaps it’s Lockhart, and that idiot façade is just a way to throw suspicion. Or perhaps it’s one of the other rich, Pureblood children whose ancestors have all been in Slytherin. Or perhaps the whole thing’s just a practical joke by Fred and George…)

* Ron and Hermione seem to be getting irritated at each other remarkably quickly. Cue Can You Feel the Love in the background.

* “But that’s impossible,” says Harry, apparently forgetting that he’s a wizard in a school of magic in a society that has magic for just about everything, so asking Draco questions without them realising who they are shouldn’t be impossible.

* A lot of people think that Malfoy would be unable to keep his mouth shut if he was the heir, but I disagree. He doesn’t tell anyone about Norbert in PS, after all, and in OOTP he doesn’t seem to blab about Harry’s “remedial Potions” lessons. He’s quite capable of keeping secrets when the plot requires it he wants to.

* “‘Oh come on, no teacher’s going to fall for that,’ said Ron. ‘They’d have to be really thick…’” Can you guess who it is yet? :)

 

Comments

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Exactly, this is what annoys me- JKR has absolutely zero magical theory. All the kids do is point their wand and say some nonsense Latin words and there you go. No effort, no strain (they can cast endlessly without any physical toll, it seems), and yet when JKR needs to inject tension, she has Harry arbitrarily having trouble with a spell- it was okay with the patronus, 'coz he's facing a Dementor (boggart!Dementor, which...okay, let's just go with that) but when he struggles with 'accio' for like, ten chapters, it's infuriating!

Because it doesn't make sense! How can anyone have trouble with spells? It's not a problem of drawing on or channeling their magic, because that's what wands are for, it's not to do with concentrating on visualizing what they want and being precise in the detail, because no, none of that, just the word is all that's required- okay, so maybe there's some initial difficulty in the PRONUNCIATION of the world (wingardium levi-OH-sa, not levio-SAH), but then after that, what's the difficulty?

And yeah, apprenticeships are usually the answer in fanfic (quick question- what's the usual length of time for an apprenticeship? I'm trying to work out details for a fanfic and I'm not sure how long it should be. Also, fics often have the apprentice teaching classes, how soon do you think that would take place?) but I have a hard time seeing how anything they learned in school would be of any help in any career.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Look up "guilds" as well as "apprenticeship" for details. I did once, got some really good, eye-opening stuff. That was from a while back so what I'm going to add here may be wishful thinking as much as memory.

There are at least two levels of apprentice-ship. One is an apprentice, one is a journeyman. Apprenticeships can last from as little as three years to over seven. The apprentice lives in the master's home or shop and is treated like one of the family. Again IIRC, the guild the master belongs to has some say in the length of training by setting standards for the apprentice and journeyman to meet. An apprentice (or was it journeyman who was higher?) doesn't automatically get into the guild just because he's completed the proscribed amount of training, he must pass according to the standards of the guild.

In modern colleges and universities, graduate students may teach classes in their specialty. That would be what most people nowadays are familiar with. That would be a minimum of four years undergraduate; I would think the graduate student would need a little more grounding in the discipline than just a bachelor's degree so add another year. While the grad student is teaching, he or she is also taking graduate level classes. Graduates are expected to do some sort of internship as part of their program but it doesn't need to be teaching.

I agree, what we see taught in Hogwarts would most likely train people to be ministry drones doing their best to get by the various knots of laws or life-long apprentices of people who had a better education. In my personal canon those people with better training were Hogwarts students pre-Headmaster Dumbledore.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

'k, thanks for the info! I'm just gonna mix-and-match whatever suits me best, lol.

And I think one goes from being an apprentice to a journeyman- maybe to signify that they're 'on their way' up? :P

In my personal canon those people with better training were Hogwarts students pre-Headmaster Dumbledore

IKR? He certainly seems responsible for single-handedly dumbing down the next generation of kids. *shakes head* Having a disinterested, dangerously lax Headmaster will do that, and it's so much worse because Hogwarts is the ONLY option for schoolkids.

And I wonder how one becomes qualified to act as a teacher- I mean, in a time when Dumbles isn't running the show and doesn't just hire whatever wacky, insane, dangerous person applies for the job (astonishing how he didn't hire Tom Riddle, isn't it? Maybe if he'd just given him the position, he'd never have tried to take over the world).

I read fics where there are wizarding colleges for further study after Hogwarts but it doesn't seem likely from canon, so IDK how one becomes certified to teach. Let alone to do anything else. They're only capable of manning various useless Ministry departments and not much else.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I don't think there is a teacher certification process. You show up to an interview with the headmaster. Since it is a one school society chances are the headmaster already knows you from your student days. Additionally you bring letters of recommendation or some proof of your post-school career. Was there certification for teachers in Victorian times?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

I read fics where there are wizarding colleges for further study after Hogwarts but it doesn't seem likely from canon, so IDK how one becomes certified to teach.

Even if there are such colleges, it begs the question as to just how those professors received their qualifications to teach... LOL

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Magical power? Or the equivalent for Herbology, Care of Magical Creatures, and the like? Given how highly it's valued, it would make sense that they'd look for its closest equivalent for this sort of thing. Which might also explain Binns - they'd think, "Ah! He's lived through all this history!" without thinking, "He's spent all that time giving dull lectures at Hogwarts".

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/And I wonder how one becomes qualified to act as a teacher- I mean, in a time when Dumbles isn't running the show and doesn't just hire whatever wacky, insane, dangerous person applies for the job (astonishing how he didn't hire Tom Riddle, isn't it? Maybe if he'd just given him the position, he'd never have tried to take over the world)./

Although it's ironic that Dumbledore almost did give the DADA job to Voldemort. Voldemort didn't have complete control of Quirrell, but he was in his body while he was teaching, so he sort of did get an experience of hosting a DADA class. Sure, he wasn't teaching the class himself, but I guess that he was able to live vicariously through Quirrell for that one moment. If Dumbledore did know that Quirrell was possessed by Voldemort, then he kind of did give him the job in that sense.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

And I think one goes from being an apprentice to a journeyman- maybe to signify that they're 'on their way' up?

I think (though I'm basing this on half-remembered Anne McCaffrey books, so I'm hoping she did more research on this than on tent pegs) the difference is that an apprentice stayed with a master but once he became a journeyman he would go around to various places and learn from experience now that he had a solid grounding in the basics.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Apprenticeships can last from as little as three years to over seven. The apprentice lives in the master's home or shop and is treated like one of the family.

That describes apprenticeships prior to the modern era, when most children didn't even go to school, and an apprenticeship took the place of formal schooling.

Modern apprenticeships last from 2 to 7 years, depending on the type of apprenticeship, and no apprentice lives in the home of a "master".

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

When I did the browsing around I was thinking on the medieval model, yes. The WW reminds me of that in a lot of ways. Being back in college I'd liken the step of teaching that BP talked about more to grad students than something medieval.

[koi-no-soshan.livejournal.com]

And the Patronus does at least require some effort on its own, a happy memory and all. At least there's some sort of requirement beyond waving a wand and saying some words. Harry's difficulty with 'accio' really was ridiculous! This is why magic systems are useful, Rowling- without them, your magical plots are built on quicksand.

Plus, without clearer divisions on what can and can't be done with magic...well, with a system as open as HP's, with so many spells available, one can almost always ask "Well, shouldn't there be a spell for this?"

The food situation in the camping trip of doom was so aggravating. There were plenty of options for them (even just with spells laid out in canon) to get food, and that's if they were truly in the middle of nowhere and couldn't possibly get food from Muggle establishments. Instead, they scrounge around for mushrooms, even though many mushrooms are poisonous. Even people experienced in picking wild mushrooms need to have them examined properly, since many poisonous mushrooms are almost identical to edible ones. The only way none of the trio being poisoned makes sense is if Hermione used 'accio' and the binomial names of whatever mushrooms she wanted.

How in the world does magic become attached to language like that, anyway? I've seen a magical world where magic in an area tends to follow the patterns of those who use it, so for instance a wizard used to Latin in magic will naturally gravitate towards developing more Latin spells, but... In HP, it just seems like Rowling forgot what this might say for the rest of the magical world. Also, the whole world before Latin's existence.

Honestly, the wizarding world seems almost like it can't decide which time it most wants to resemble. We have a (poor) modern education system, but students are so woefully prepared for future careers/training that they might as well just start with magical training with apprenticeships rather than Hogwarts.

Again there's that despised 'Harry filter', but it doesn't even seem that Hogwarts students are taught practical things like household or healing spells... It's not giving them an education geared towards going into specialized apprenticeships or university course afterward, and it's not even giving them coverage in practical spells... Well, in the end, I suppose it comes down to Rowling deciding on subjects which sounded fun for a magical school. Which works for children's books, but stopped working when she started expecting HP and it's world to be taken seriously.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Exactly, so putting aside the nonsense about how difficult it is to cast a Patronus in one book and then a bunch of schoolkids all managing it in another book, I did think it was well-written the way Harry struggled with it. Miserable life, not many happy memories, scary monster looming over him, it all adds up. But ACCIO. *headdeskwallfloor* It was a stupid plot device- I mean, really, as if Harry would choke on the day and actually get fried by the dragon.

What I want to know is- why didn't he go 'accio dragon's golden egg'? Was there something prohibiting that? It'd've been over in two seconds flat.

And ARGH, yes, the random starvation in DH was SO STUPID. I mean, we know there weren't more than like, two dozen DEs. As if they would've been guarding every single grocery store in London! Or Scotland, or wherever the hell they were popping in and out of.

And here's one simple option- all they had to do was hit one takeaway store or fast food restaurant and then do that handy 'multiply food' spell. Hermione says it's possible, it's one of the exceptions to Gamp's rules, so they could've just had a never-ending supply of chips to feast on!

Even if they were in the middle of nowhere, come on, 'accio rabbit'? Or couldn't Hermione cook her canaries? :P

And yeah, the fact that it's all in Latin is bizarre. What about Greek? Or Chinese? Or any other ancient language? If she'd developed her own magical language, it'd've been fine, but what tunnel vision she has to use Latin and ONLY Latin.

it doesn't even seem that Hogwarts students are taught practical things like household or healing spells

Exactly, like all the handy household charms Molly uses- I'm surprised Ron didn't sign Hermione up for a course so that she could be the perfect housewife for him, make sure his laundry's all done and meal on the table, etc.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

What I want to know is- why didn't he go 'accio dragon's golden egg'? Was there something prohibiting that? It'd've been over in two seconds flat.

Maybe the dragon might have grabbed it as it started to fly? Or, since the point of the challenge was to get past the dragon, it may have been protected from that sort of spell, but were that the case, it would have been nice had someone mentioned that.

And yeah, the fact that it's all in Latin is bizarre. What about Greek? Or Chinese? Or any other ancient language? If she'd developed her own magical language, it'd've been fine, but what tunnel vision she has to use Latin and ONLY Latin

Well, Avada Kedavra is based on Hebrew, and Langlock and Muffliato seem to be a mixture of Latin and English, so maybe more modern spells are based on their creator's language, whereas before the Roman Empire, the only thing wizards could do was kill people. Which might explain "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", I suppose.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Which might explain "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", I suppose.

Actually, the word that was translated in the KJV of the Bible as "witch", is a word that is the root word for "pharmacist". IOW, the original text from thousands of years ago is discussing someone who brewed potions and medicines, which back in those days could be a witch, or could just as likely be a doctor.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

I know that (though I heard it could also be translated as "poisoner" or in fact "mutterer"), but this is the Potterverse, where witches and wizards were burned at the stake in the tenth and eleventh centuries, where people had surnames in that time (and you can't convince me those were epithets - not unless Helga had really bad asthma and Salazar kept writhing around on the ground), and where despite having actual witches and wizards to observe, Muggle folk beliefs of how magic worked seem to have been entirely uninformed by this. If she's allowed to treat history as a joke because she couldn't be bothered to do the research, I'm allowed to treat it as a joke to extend her premise to their logical conclusions, damn it! :P

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

but this is the Potterverse, where witches and wizards were burned at the stake in the tenth and eleventh centuries, where people had surnames in that time...and where despite having actual witches and wizards to observe, Muggle folk beliefs of how magic worked seem to have been entirely uninformed by this.

So basically Rowling's whole body of work is AU...which should warm the cockles of every AU Potterverse fanfic writer's heart! LOL

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

So basically Rowling's whole body of work is AU...which should warm the cockles of every AU Potterverse fanfic writer's heart! LOL

Well you know what my fic is about, filling the giant potholes or...should I say Weaving? But at somepoint any fanfic writer is working with a non-workable canon. There are some things that are never going to add up, or work logically or even meet a minimal realistic reality.

I just don't believe JKR ever sat down and really mapped out anything other than the basics of Harry's story (or at least not like she claims she did)

Like a while back when I wanted to create a Hogwarts scheduel for the professors and school itself.

Now, places like the HP Lexicon and stuff have developed Harry his own daily class scheduel from information filtered from the books.

But for fanfic purposes I had wanted to develope an actual working week for all the professors, classes, 1-7 years of students. Just so I'd know where each year class, house was and what day's a professor is where and teaching what year, etc. etc.

I even had one of my fanfic readers try to help me because he told me he was a math professor and it was in his field to create that kind of thing from data and information.

Needless to say it was impossible to do using canon info on when certain classes were taking place. You can get out of Canon Harry thinking about a class thats happening at a certain time of day. There is a lot of that in the book. There was even places where Harry is giving the reader info on when other students are taking classes. So, places like the lexicon were able to develope harry's schedule for a year; when classes were on what day and time.

But see that is because JKR was focused on Harry - I very seriously doubt if she sat down once and figured out how to make her school actually work.

With the number of Professors, required classes, 1-7 Years (which don't forget are split into 2 so that actually means 14) Then don't forget to add the elective classes 3rd year and up and don't forget to take away some classes and add others after 6th.

Lets just say if you use the bits of canon info on when Harry is taking classes and try to compile it into a working schedule for the actual school...NADA...not gonna happen. You can't fit all those teachers and all those students and years into or around where canon has Harry, etc.

I nor my reader were able to create a workable schedule, at some point my reader said that either they have to have more professors teaching the subject or they're getting 7th year students to teach.

I don't even know if it's possible if you totally forget canon info and attempt it but needless to say it just made me realize all the more that JKR wasn't really focusing on 'really' making her world correct.

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Hey, I made a schedule like this, complete with quidditch trainings, library supervisions and some new classes like Latin (because it is for post-war school under Minerva). Do you want it? It is in Czech, but this piece would be easy to understand.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

As if they would've been guarding every single grocery store in London! Or Scotland, or wherever the hell they were popping in and out of.

Not to mention Kwikee marts at area gas stations -- they could have gotten cheese crackers and Slurpees at least! LOL


Even if they were in the middle of nowhere, come on, 'accio rabbit'?

Not to mention the fish in the streams and rivers of The Forest of Dean.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Oh yes! Which in fact, they saw the competent (and mixed-species - [insert rant on anthropocentrism here]) refugee group doing!

Hermione learning from experience

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

See, if the refugee group had written a book on surviving in hiding, Hermione could have read it and learned from them.

But Hermione only learns from books, and the other two not at all...

(See: quoting from the book about "the advantages of nonverbal spells" two months after she was FLATTENED by a fighter she'd assumed she had incapacitated by silencing....)

Re: Hermione learning from experience

[oryx_leucoryx]

Though we don't hear of them being hungry again once Ron left, so perhaps once she realized food can be summoned and multiplied she started doing so.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

quick question- what's the usual length of time for an apprenticeship? I'm trying to work out details for a fanfic and I'm not sure how long it should be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprenticeship


According to Wikipedia, it depends on the country. In those countries with state-sponsored apprenticeships (basically a type of public vo-tech education), it ranges from 2 to 4 years.

We don't have government-sponsored apprenticeships here in the U.S., apprenticeships are sponsored by specific labor groups; IOW, if you want to become an electrician, you get an apprenticeship thru the IBEW and the national electrical contractors association:

Apprentice electricians work 37 to 40 hours per week at the trade under the supervision of a journeyman electrician and receive pay and benefits. They spend an additional 6 hours per week in classroom training. At the conclusion of training (five years for commercial and industrial construction, less for residential construction), apprentices become journeymen (and women). All of this is offered at no charge, except for the cost of books (which is approximately $200 per year). Persons completing this program are considered highly skilled by employers and command high pay and benefits. Other unions such as the Ironworkers, Sheet Metal Workers, Plasterers, Bricklayers and others offer similar programs.

So the bottom line is, it seems that most western countries have incorporated apprenticeships into their existing educational systems as their version of vo-tech training, and such apprenticeships last from 2 to 4 years depending on the area of study. It seems unlikely that such students/apprentices would teach any classes.

In the U.S. the only requirement seems to be that the person applying for apprenticeship be at least 18 years old; no educational requirement is specified, so I'm not sure if school dropouts would be accepted.

But since the apprentice is required to be at least 18 y.o., it would seem in theory that such apprenticeships are considered a secondary education beyond highschool.

And they are taught by people who are at least journeymen, and it takes some years as an apprentice to reach the journeyman stage, so again I don't see any classes being taught by apprentices.

length of apprenticeship

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

The medieval norm came to be seven years, but it usually started when the prentice was 10-15. Modern ones, usually just a couple but they start with an adult who's partly trained already. So I think your fic can make up what you like.

Re: length of apprenticeship

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that!