COS Chapter Twelve: "The Polyjuice Potion"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* Sincere apologies for the lack of postage over the past few weeks; suffice to say that, whilst I’d be happy to log on regularly, RL seems to have other ideas.

 

* Slytherin are so evil that even the thought of being there is enough to make Harry feel sick. These books are such a good argument for tolerance, don’t you think?

* “Harry was just thinking that all he needed was for Dumbledore’s pet bird to die while he was alone in the office with it” just makes him sound so self-centred. Never mind about the dead bird, or Dumbledore losing his beloved pet, I might get in trouble for it! Even though I’d have no motive in killing it and it was pretty obviously sick before I came in.

* Fawkes is usually very pretty, just in case we were worrying that Harry might end up having his life saved by something ugly.

* Given what we now know about Dumbledore’s views on personal loyalty, the emphasis on the word “faithful” looks rather sinister.

* Any guesses on why exactly Hagrid needs to carry the rooster around with him in the castle?

* That’s right, Harry, don’t tell DD about that mysterious voice you heard! Heaven forbid that you might actually help him solve the mystery before anybody is seriously hurt.

* I think it’s rather sweet that Crabbe and Goyle are staying behind with Malfoy. They really do seem to care about each other. (Well, until the abomination that is DH, that is.)

* Harry’s glad that most people are leaving, despite the fact that this’ll narrow down the potential list of suspects and make it more likely that they’ll be caught.

* “[Harry] was tired of people skirting around him in the corridors, as though he were about to sprout fangs or spit poison; tired of all the muttering, pointing and hissing as he passed.” I wonder if that’s what the Slytherins feel like all the time?

* I have to admit, F&G’s heir of Slytherin routine is pretty amusing. But since it’s so different to their usual brand of “humour”, I think I can like it without feeling too guilty.

* I wonder why Fred, George and Ginny have decided to stay? Is it because the fine Mr. Weasley had to pay means they can’t afford to take them, and they’re too proud to admit the real reason?

* I’m sure that the teachers of Hogwarts appreciate Percy staying behind to help them, even if Harry doesn’t.

*How rude of the Dursleys to send him a toothpick like that, especially when Harry gave them an expensive luxury hamper bursting to the brim with Honeyduke’s finest chocolate. Or nothing. I forget which.

* BTW, it seems odd to go to all the trouble of sending Harry such a silly little present. Unless DD sent Hedwig to keep bothering them until they sent something…

* Ron gives Harry a book about Ron’s favourite Quidditch team, rather than something Harry would be expected to be interested in.

* I hope Mrs. Weasley gave her real children presents which were at least as good as the ones she gave Harry.

* F&G have bewitched Percy’s Prefect Badge to make it say “Pinhead”. Oh, the hilarity!

* Crabbe and Goyle eat four helpings of pudding. Harry and Ron, who aren’t greedy pigs, limit themselves to three.

* Hermione’s telling the Slytherins that Millicent Bulstrode came back would backfire spectacularly once they realised that Millicent had not in fact returned, and that they had, therefore, been tricked.

* It’s a shame that nobody’s written a HP/Hercule Poirot crossover fic, in which Poirot investigates the Polyjuice incident. He’d probably solve the mystery within half an hour, and then work out who’s petrifying all those students for good measure.

* Ron and Hermione are prepared to knock out two of Draco’s friends based on extremely flimsy evidence. Remember this is HBP, when they refuse to believe that Draco’s up to something, despite having much better evidence than they do here.

* At least Harry and Ron didn’t strip Crabbe and Goyle. Be grateful for small mercies, I suppose.

* Millicent Bulstrode is “no pixie”, apparently, which seems like a polite way of saying “fat”. Outside of fandom, are there any pretty Slytherin girls, or are they all fat and ugly?

* You’d have thought it wouldn’t have been beyond the Trio to change into their new clothes before taking the Polyjuice Potion.

* Ever since reading Draco Dormiens, I’ve always imagined Harry surreptitiously checking to see whether Goyle is bigger than he is.

* And now they’ve got to find the Slytherin common room. Gee, guys, would it have been impossible to find that out before you took the Potion? Even if you don’t arouse suspicion by not knowing where it is, you’ll waste valuable time trying to find it.

* All this makes Ron’s quip about Goyle being dumb look rather silly.

* I don’t know why, but I’ve always thought that this Ravenclaw girl was Penelope Clearwater. Perhaps she’s just been meeting Percy in one of the disused dungeons.

* Whoever she is, her reply to Harry and Ron is rather rude. Is that what the Slytherins are treated like all the time? It’s a shame Harry and Ron never consider this, and maybe get a bit of sympathy for the Slytherins.

* The Slytherin password is “Pureblood”, just to remind us that they’re all racists, and, therefore, evil. Never mind that Slytherin’s most famous alumni, Tom Riddle and Severus Snape, were both halfbloods, and in Tom’s case, there was no way to know whether he was a muggleborn, pureblood or half-blood.

* The Slytherin common-room doesn’t look particularly luxurious, which seems odd for a supposed bastion of aristocratic privilege. Perhaps it’s like that to try and inculcate some humility into the children, like the fag system in old British public schools.

* I think it’s rather sweet of Mr. Malfoy to send his son newspaper clippings like that. “Here, Draco, let’s both laugh together at these guys!” I still think it odd that such an evil bully as Draco apparently is wouldn’t make greater use of it to humiliate Ron. Maybe he’s not so bad after all.

* Mrs. Weasley has threatened to set the family ghoul on reporters, apparently not realising that that sort of action is extremely bad publicity.

* Draco’s theory about DD hushing up the attacks is probably correct; at any rate, nobody seems to refer to them much in later books.

* Do racists normally go on about how much they hate [insert ethnicity here] as much as Draco’s doing in this scene? It just comes across as really false and over-the-top, at least to me. Perhaps he’s twigged that there’s something wrong with “Crabbe” and “Goyle”, and is deliberately acting oddly in order to see if they notice.

* Draco wishes that Hermione would get killed by the monster. Knowing what she’s going to become in later books, I can’t help but wonder whether that might not be for the best after all.

* For all Harry and Ron’s jokes about C&G being thick, they seem to be arousing Draco’s suspicions by being slower on the uptake.

* Harry and Ron are “hoping against hope that Malfoy hadn’t noticed anything.” I wouldn’t count on it, guys; he seems like a good Potions student, so he probably remembers what Snape said about the Polyjuice Potion; Harry and Ron were the least convincing Crabbe and Goyle imaginable; a boy who can notice Harry’s foot slipping out of the invisibility cloak for a split second would almost certainly notice his best friends changing into somebody else before his eyes; and the real Crabbe and Goyle would tell him that they weren’t there. He probably knows what happened, and feels really annoyed that DD doesn’t do anything about it.

* What’s the point of Cat!Hermione? It doesn’t advance the plot, it doesn’t contribute to characterisation, and it doesn’t add to the atmosphere of the story. Perhaps it’s to stop people questioning her plan by making them feel sorry for her.

* “Madam Pomfrey never asks too many questions…” Given what goes on in Hogwarts, maybe it’s time she started.

 

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

IKR? But it wouldn't be Hogwarts if authority figures paid attention to what kids were doing and tried to protect them.

And those that do are evil for it.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

“Madam Pomfrey never asks too many questions…”

This really makes her sound like the sort of doctor Al Capone would have visited - maybe that's how Dumbledore made contact with Mundungus Fletcher!

[oryx_leucoryx]

One theory is that Severus served in that role for the DEs (when it became risky for them to go to St Mungo's). He learned it all at school.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

I can believe that - after all, doesn't Bella imply in HBP that Snape hasn't really seen much front-line action? He only became a spy in the last year of the war, so he was almost certainly playing a support role.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Yea, Bellatrix accuses Severus of always getting out of stuff, or being able to slither out of putting himself at the front - don't have the book in front of me right now but, yea, she accuses him of basicly being a do nothing for the cause.

I've seen a lot of implications on Snape, as in he killed people he did this or that, etc. etc. But from what Bellatrix implies he at least had the apperance to her of not being trustworthy or of an upfront death eater.

Although it can be played off by some as her being jealous of anyone close to Voldemort, but still her comments have to come from some kind of factual knowledge she has from the first war for her to imply things about him, so she had to form the opinion from both recent and past experience.

Plus it's kind of funny to know the crazy bitch was the one who was right about him all along. The fact that she knew enough about him to accuse him of being untrustworthy sort of suggests she remembered enough from the first war to decide he was an enemy to her and voldemort, etc.

[oryx_leucoryx]

There is also Igor Karkaroff - he can say that Dolohov was a torturer (but at that point it seems not yet a killer), Mulciber an Imperius specialist, Travers helped kill the McKinnons (I suppose he helped Igor, and possibly Rosier kill the McKinnons, that he doesn't accuse anyone else with this act means anyone else who was involved was already dead or captured by the time Igor was arrested), but all he has to say about Severus is to insist that he indeed was a DE.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Yes. Considering the evidence from various sources, including those (like Bella) with no love of Severus, IMO it's rather clear that Severus was not heavily involved on the "front line"/raids in VoldWar I. If we take Dumbledore's statement in DH about simply "watching" people die at face value, and put it in the context of Igor and Bella's statements, Severus may have never directly participated in violence, or at least have never contributed to any deaths pre-Prophecy.

That would also fit in with Severus' demeanor during the hilltop meeting and in DD's office after Halloween: he'd likely be even more shaken and guilty over the risk to Lily's life and later the Potters' deaths if that was, in fact, the first time he ever had to deal with the knowledge that he'd directly contributed to anyone's death.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

That would also fit in with Severus' demeanor during the hilltop meeting and in DD's office after Halloween: he'd likely be even more shaken and guilty over the risk to Lily's life and later the Potters' deaths if that was, in fact, the first time he ever had to deal with the knowledge that he'd directly contributed to anyone's death.

And Severus asking DD "What about my OWN soul?", when Dumbles is saying that he wants to save Draco's soul by having Severus kill him instead, also implies that Sev's not done any actual hands-on killing at that point.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Awww... I hate that moment sfm. What a cold bastard Dumbles is. I mean, he basically implies, iirc, that Snape's a lost cause anyway, his soul's tarnished, so it's not gonna do him much harm to kill a man, as opposed to pure innocent Draco. Yeah, he cared so much that he let the kid execute murder plots all year, not buying that he really gives a damn about him so much as using it as another way to manipulate Snape, ugh.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Yes. Word. Way to go, DD, telling the man who has just spent nearly two decades risking his life, suffering torture and tarnishing his reputation for YOUR oh-so-noble cause that he's too spiritually dirty to matter, he ought not to mind having to do one more piece of dirty work. I don't think he ever saw Snape as anything other than a lost cause, in fact - as a morally-lost but very manipulable and thus useful young man. Not only did he never have a moment of empathy for him, he never actually thought he was redeemable. For all that fanficcers and interpreters of the book see Snape as viewing his work for the Order as his path to redemption (which I too think he did see it as), DUMBLEDORE never actually says anything along those lines in canon to encourage him. He just tells him his "path is clear." Tells him to "prove it" RE caring for Lily. Not that his work would actually gain him anything, spiritually, at least in DD's eyes.

Plus, if DD REALLY cared for Draco's soul, why on earth didn't he call the kid into his office with Snape at the beginning of the year and tell him he didn't have to do this, the Order could hide him and his mother? Instead he lets Draco try to kill him twice, and nearly kill both Ron and Katie with his schemes, and then pulls out a last-minute 'we can hide you' thing on the tower when it is clear to everyone involved that it's way too late for that and DD can't do a d*mned thing now. He could have prevented the whole invasion that night too, which put everyone in the castle at risk.

But, of course, that would have meant Dumbles dying, not at the hand of an apparent betrayer in full heroic style, but either killing himself or dying in the end of the clear results of his own foolishness. Which he doubtless did not want to put on display for everyone in quite that way. Instead he manipulates Draco and Severus, puts everyone at risk, and ultimately sets Severus up to be killed without giving him a word of warning.

Epitome of good? WTF, JKR; morality, ur doin it wrong.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

He just tells him his "path is clear." Tells him to "prove it" RE caring for Lily.


Remember when Dumbledore makes the snarky comment about Severus caring for Harry and Severus yells 'for Him' and shoots off that doe patronus?

In some way that has always come across to me as Severus giving proof, because even Dumbledore says, after all this time. It almost seems like Dumbledore thinks Severus has gotten over it.

Dumbledore you asshole, when does Severus just get over things that mean a lot to him. "See grudge against James Potter as a clue"

So I have always looked at the Patronus thing as magical proof; not only for Dumbledore but for Snape himself. There has got to be a lot said about someone who is able to make a patronus that Lily's son would recognize and feel a 'kindship' to.

I have complained about how Harry would feel a connection in DH to the doe patronus from Snape but If there was that much of a powerful connection then it must have been as much of a reality check to Severus as to anyone else who would have seen it.

It was sort of like Severus saying, 'Look Dumbledore, you may not believe my words but maybe you'll believe this magical doe patronus. Here is your proof, asshole.'

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

He may be trying to 'prove it,' yes. But I also read that incident as Severus' attempt to defend himself in a moment where he felt very vulnerable by changing the subject and putting up a 'it's only for HER!' mask. Because he has a lot invested in not admitting to himself that he does or even could care for Harry at this point - he's just learned that he's supposed to ensure the kid *dies* after all! - and Dumbledore's snark has just hit a sore point for Severus there: he does, actually, care for the boy.

But if he admits that to DD and to himself, it not only would mean (in his view) admitting that DD was 'right' about the boy all along, it would also mean abandoning the worldview that's motivated him for the last two decades (that he's a miserable fuckup atoning for his sins to memory of the perfect goddess who is his only real moral guide, and she's all that matters) at the moment where he most needs something stable to hang on to now that DD has betrayed him. Then there is the James issue. And it would mean accepting that he cares for yet another person who he *knows* is about to be taken away from him - naturally he would want to avoid that future hurt by denying the connection altogether.

But it's real, it's already there, so he's upset, and he channels that feeling into a giant defensive display that's intended to convince, not only or not so much Dumbledore, as *himself.* He *wishes* he didn't care for the boy, because then his life would be so much less complicated emotionally right then.

That's how I read it, anyway.

He *wishes* he didn't care for the boy

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

because then his life would be so much less complicated emotionally right then....

Yeah, that's exactly the way I read that scene.

Thanks for validating that reading!

Re: He *wishes* he didn't care for the boy

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

*g*

Oh, I'm just glad to find I'm not alone in my crazy corner with it, hehe.

Really, it just seems so clear to me that the subtext there is *all about* Severus' defensiveness over actually caring for the boy. A vulnerability Dumbles senses and exploits in order to turn the subject away from his own failings, and to needle Severus, who reacts in an all-too-predictable manner that merely reinforces the cycle of disempowerment Dumbledore has had him trapped in all this time.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

I didn't get the impression that he was entirely callous about Snape's soul - he pretty clearly implies that euthanasia isn't the same as murder.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

It seemed, though, that he was saying this is how it seemed to him and that, if Snape had a different idea, his soul might well be ripped. I don't have the book in front of me (I'm avoiding that, actually) but I think he said something about whether it was murder or easing an old man in pain.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

He says that "only you" (i.e. Severus) would know if it would harm his soul.

Meaning one or both of two things:

1) Snape's own view of the morality of euthanasia would determine if it was morally/spiritually harmful to him to do - and it's pretty clear that Snape views it as morally wrong, so asking him to go ahead with it *is* asking him to harm his soul

2) only Snape would be in a position to know whether or not it does harm him, *after the fact* (meaning, try it and see, only you can tell what it does to you - and if your soul is ripped, oh well).

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

and it's pretty clear that Snape views it as morally wrong

Depends how you read it - Snape may react badly when he's first asked to do it (especially just after using all his skills to save Dumbledore's life), but I think given time he'd accept it as a necessary ending of pain. I've never read Severus as someone who'd be opposed to euthanasia in general, and I think it's just the circumstances here that are putting him off.

only Snape would be in a position to know whether or not it does harm him, *after the fact* (meaning, try it and see, only you can tell what it does to you - and if your soul is ripped, oh well).

That's the problem with every killing of a sapient being in this metaphysic, though. But one could argue that since it' a) euthanasia, and b) self-defence from the Unbreakable Vow (a vow he swore to protect Draco's life, no less), soul-splitting could well be a very unlikely outcome. (This is why magical theory would have been very helpful).

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

The matter of his soul aside- and it's a HUGE THING, considering the series is based around a villain who only exists now 'coz his soul was torn apart (still don't get how a mere peaceful AK rates soul-ripping, and only by Voldy, whereas everyone else in the series who ever kills anyone has a perfectly intact soul- Bellatrix, as far as we know, hasn't left any soul bits lying around, despite her death count)- what I hate is how cold and callous Dumbles was about Snape's future. He pretty much ensures he'll die by getting him to kill him, thus making him the Master of the Elder Wand and the one who Voldy will come after* and then even if he did survive somehow, nobody would believe his account, they'd just throw him in Azkaban or he'd have to go on the run. So Dumbles just screwed him over big-time with absolutely no regret. *stabs*

*although hang on, did he plan for Draco to disarm him, then? Because if he hadn't and Snape truly was the Master, then Voldy would've been the true Master and defeated Harry, right? So then his whole plan would've failed! And how did Harry and/or Dumbles know that Draco hadn't been disarmed since that night on the tower? What if Voldy had asked for his wand instead of Lucius'? What if Bella had been teaching him a lesson and taken his wand? Or anyone else disarmed him for any reason? Harry'd've marched to his real death and the hope of the WW would've died with him- and they'd finally have to get off their asses and save themselves!)

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

I can't believe that DD would have planned for Draco to disarm him, since that would at least suggest the possibility of *Draco* gaining mastery - which he didn't want. And he couldn't have foreseen Harry's grabbing Draco's wand.

So yeah, DD was incredibly stupid in planning for Severus to have mastery! ESPECIALLY since he didn't warn Severus about it, which would have let him take precautions to try and ensure that Voldie never got it. *headdesk* Can JKR not THINK at ALL?

Really, though, the whole thing comes off like a piece of shoddy BS, IMO, and an excuse for Harry to get to play Christ without actually having to live up to the moral standards that role necessitates. Have I ranted yet about how the villain's taunts about the hero surviving based on luck and people doing things for him should NOT actually ring true?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

*although hang on, did he plan for Draco to disarm him, then? Because if he hadn't and Snape truly was the Master, then Voldy would've been the true Master and defeated Harry, right? So then his whole plan would've failed! And how did Harry and/or Dumbles know that Draco hadn't been disarmed since that night on the tower? What if Voldy had asked for his wand instead of Lucius'? What if Bella had been teaching him a lesson and taken his wand? Or anyone else disarmed him for any reason? Harry'd've marched to his real death and the hope of the WW would've died with him- and they'd finally have to get off their asses and save themselves!)

On the whole Severus ending up with mastery of the elder wand. I really don't totally understand it because the story seems to conflict itself in a way.

On one hand JKR is having Dumbledore and Snape make this elaborate plan. Supposedly because they had the plan, Snape killing Dumbledore is not supposed to make him the master of the wand, because it was a planned death/defeat.

So even if Severus had disarmed Dumbledore the idea was that since it was 'the plan' - Dumbledore would not have really been defeated, thus Severus would not have been the master of the wand.

YET, in the kings cross chapter, Harry says to DD, "If you planned your death with Snape, you meant him to end up with the Elder Wand, didn't you?"

DD's reply, 'I admit that was my intention,'

But later Harry argues to Voldemort that Snape never beat Dumbledore, etc. That it was the plan that Dumbledore would die as master of the wand.

Now, the thing that makes me conflicted is, What was Severus going to do with a wand that didn't work? and did HE, Severus know about the Elder Wand?

Severus does not seem to be the one who told Voldemort about the wand, Voldie got that info from Olivander if my memory serves me right; someone can remind me if it's different but thats how I thought Voldie got his info about the wand and then he started hunting for it.

I don't think Dumbledore would have told Severus about the elder wand because if Voldie knew right away that Dumbledore had it he would have went straight away to the tomb to take it I would think. So there was really no need to tell Severus since Dumbledore seems to have put Severus on a 'need to know' scheduel.

And I'm probably confusing myself and it is probably simpler than I am making it - but to me it almost reads like Dumbledore set up Severus - especially when he's saying he meant Severus to end up with the wand but then we get the secondary idea that because Dumbledore planned his death with Severus it meant that the mastery would die with him.

So if Dumbledore had the idea or knew Voldemort was going to go after the wand, doesn't that sound a little like Severus was going to be setup reguardless of whatever happened with Harry/Voldie.

However it doesn't seem like Severus knew enough about it, WE don't get a scene in DH prince's tale that suggests Severus knew anything about the wand. And since Dumbledore wouldn't tell Severus anything about Horcuxes connections to Harry I doubt if he imparted info about the wand to Severus.

Maybe someone has better thoughts than I do on it but it just seems to almost conflict itself in some way with what Dumbledores real intentions were.

Maybe for the greater good Dumbledore (or JKR) decided that setting up Severus was a good idea - to get him out of the way so once Voldemort was defeated and Severus was also dead, Harry could go on an have the perfect life and never have to deal with any of the people that ruined his life. The pefect happy ever after for the perfect hero, etc.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I didn't get the impression that he was entirely callous about Snape's soul - he pretty clearly implies that euthanasia isn't the same as murder.


For myself I think it's interesting that Snape is reluctant to do it and has to have DD reassure him.

Surprising that this supposedly evil baddie who hates poor innocent children isn't all that excited about putting Dumbledore into forever night-night time.

You'd think if he was as evil as some HP-fans make him out to be he wouldn't have complained. In fact him killing Dumbledore should have been no big deal to 'evil' Severus, if he was as bad as some make him out to be.

Plus you'd think if he had no morals he'd be fine with doing the murder and murdering Dumbledore would be sealing his greatness among the death eaters.

Yet at first, Severus doesn't seem to think of it as just a case of putting an old man out of his misery. Even after DD reasures him, later on in the story Severus is complaining about having to do the deed.

Dumbledore was Severus' safety net; so to speak. He was the only one who could vouch for Severus. So I'm sure part of his reluctant behavior is tied into the protection Severus had from Dumbledore and Hogwarts.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

But also explicit concern for his soul. He is no repulsed by the notion of being involved with killing that he will - we have seen and he points out - risk himself and his mission to save anyone he thinks he can.

And his safety net wasn't going to be around much longer no matter what he did - DD was *already* dying.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

LMAO! WIN.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

In accordance with terri's theory about good/evil and chaos/law. Apparently not even rules and actions expressly intended to prevent harm from coming to innocents are not good, and those who try to enforce sensible regulations are simply wrong.