[identity profile] for-diddled.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock

* Dumbledore’s beaming at Harry. Yes, Albus, it must be nice to know that Harry now worships you so much that he cares about your reaction more than anyone else’s.

* So how long has Dumbles known that Riddle’s been possessing Ginny? After HBP, I wouldn’t be surprised to know that he’d guessed from the start, but has been sitting on the information to let Harry “try his strength” or whatever.

* “Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was actually called Tom Riddle.” Yes, Dumbles, because you never tell anyone. Which seems somewhat odd, given that the pureblood fanatics who apparently make up his biggest supporters might hesitate at joining a known half-blood. Plus, of course, it’s a lot harder to be scared of Tommy Riddle of Slytherin House than it is of Lord Voldemort, Master of Death.

* On second thoughts, it’s not that odd. After all, the threat of Voldemort provides a useful means of distracting people from the underlying problems facing the Wizarding World, not least of which is the fact that this Machiavellian schoolteacher is controlling everything behind the scenes.

* Seriously, for all his supposed modesty in not accepting the Minister of Magic post, he seems to have acquired a remarkably large amount of influence. He’s already Headmaster of wizarding Britain’s only school, Supreme Warlock of the Wizengamot, Chief Mugwump and head of the International Confederation of Wizards, which in Muggle terms is like being Education Secretary, Speaker of the House of Commons, Lord Chancellor and Secretary-General of the UN all at once. More powerful, in fact, since the Education Secretary doesn’t hire and fire individual teachers, or expel individual pupils. No wonder he wants people distracted by Voldemort.

* Someone really ought to write a parody fic with Dumbledore as this sinister villain controlling everything behind the scenes, and the Death Eaters as a group of noble freedom-fighters trying to overthrow him, who have an unfair reputation as a group of dark wizards due to Dumbledore’s control of the press. Or better yet, Voldemort could be an agent working for Dumbledore, giving the WW something to unite against in order to stop them questioning Dumbledore’s authority.

* I wonder if Dumbledore’s being so lenient to Ginny here because he’s remembering how he was once taken in by Grindlewald?

* For some reason, I now find myself always suspecting the worst every time Dumbledore’s eyes start twinkling. I wonder what he could be up to here?

* Note how it’s Ron who immediately thinks of Hermione being OK. Another clue to Hr/R?

* Special Awards for Services to the School and two hundred points? Hardly an appropriate reward, IMHO. Not only is fighting millennium-old monsters not a recognised extra-curricular activity, making it inappropriate to give them points for it, but a glorified school trophy seems a bit inadequate. They should be given Orders of Merlin instead.

* Dumbledore doesn’t seem surprised that Lockhart tried to memory charm Harry and Ron. So does this mean that he knew all along about Gilderoy’s modus operandi? And he still hired him nevertheless? Remind me again, why is it that Dumbledore’s considered the greatest Headmaster Hogwarts has ever had?

* Harry doesn’t think he’s like Tom, because Harry’s in Gryffindor and Tom’s just a Slytherin. Oh dear. Maybe Voldemort’s idea of abolishing Houses was a good one after all.

* Also, note how Harry thinks “doing well in Slytherin” means “evil”. Yet more evidence of the Houses dividing students and encouraging them to think of members of other Houses as being beneath them. Seriously, it’s like the Founders thought that the WW was too boring, and set up a system purposefully designed to lead to as much civil war as possible.

* This would be an excellent opportunity for Dumbledore to say to Harry, “Look, Harry, I know you don’t like some Slytherin students, but Slytherins are people too, Slytherin House is every bit as good as any other House, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being sorted into Slytherin.” Instead, he seems to confirm Harry’s idea that choosing not to be sorted into Slytherin is some sort of moral test he had to pass.

* Getting all psychoanalytical here, I think that maybe Dumbledore knows deep down that he’d have been better-suited to Slytherin than Gryffindor (he’s cunning and manipulative enough, at any rate), and compensates by doing down Slytherin House whenever he can get away with it.

* Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled the sword out of the Hat, apparently. So does that mean that no other House member would be able to receive help from the Hat, or would they have pulled out something equally cool? If, say, Pansy had been taken into the Chamber and Draco had gone down to rescue her, would he have pulled out Slytherin’s crossbow or something?

* I’d like to think that Helga Hufflepuff, at least, would have offered up her weapon (battle-axe, maybe? Mace?) to anyone who needed it, regardless of House.

* So why did the governors want Dumbledore back? When has he done anything to stop the attacks?

* I don’t believe the cursing families part, either. A shrewd political operator like Lucius would never resort to something so obviously illegal. More likely the governors are just trying to cover their backsides in case Dumbledore’s angry with them. You know what he’s like about personal loyalty, after all.

* Come to think of it, does anyone know whether any of the governors went on to mysteriously find themselves in a position where their only option involved doing some humiliating and demeaning job for Dumbledore?

* So Lucius, a man whom even Voldemort described as “slippery”, now virtually goes to pieces the moment his plot’s uncovered. Has JKR been getting the car batteries out again, perhaps?

* If any more of Voldemort’s schoolthings turn up, Mr. Weasley will have them traced back to Lucius. That’s right, one of the main good guys is going to frame his personal enemy based on nothing more than a hunch.

* So “Lucius throws a sock which Dobby happens to catch” is now the same as “Lucius hands Dobby a sock.” Hmm, you’re on shaky legal grounds there, I think.

* Unfortunately, being free doesn’t seem to have changed Dobby’s inherent servility. Even more unfortunately, he’ll be back to inflict it upon us in later books.

* I hope than when Dumbles cancelled all those exams, he just cancelled the internal end-of-year ones, rather than the OWLs and NEWTs. How’re those seventh-years going to get jobs without any qualifications?

* Lucius Malfoy’s been sacked as a school governor. By whom, exactly? Do governors have the power to sack each other?

* Ginny Weasley’s perfectly happy again. She may have recklessly endangered her fellow-students’ safety (why did she write in that diary again? Why?), but none of them actually died, so that’s OK.

* So Percy – who, let us not forget, seems to have cared for Ginny the most out of all the Weasley brothers – has specifically asked her not to tell anyone about his girlfriend, so what does she do? Tell as soon as someone asks. In front of the twins. The best you can say is probably that she’s being extraordinarily naïve; the worst, I suppose, is that she’s maliciously hoping that the twins’ persecution of Percy might amuse her in some way.

* So, to recap, she’s written in this diary even after she suspects it’s possessing her, not told anyone that she’s the one attacking people, and completely betrayed Percy’s confidence. And yet, somehow, I still like this version better than the second one.

* Still, kissing in deserted corridors doesn’t seem particularly IC for the Percy we know. More evidence that he’s not nearly as pompous normally as he is when surrounded by people who constantly try to belittle him?

* And on that bombshell, it’s time to end the read-through. Thanks to everyone who read and commented on it.

 


Date: 2011-01-15 03:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmmarcusz.livejournal.com
First!

* So how long has Dumbles known that Riddle’s been possessing Ginny? After HBP, I wouldn’t be surprised to know that he’d guessed from the start, but has been sitting on the information to let Harry “try his strength” or whatever.


DD, in the early books, is essentially the author, so to think of him as a person makes little sense.

* “Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was actually called Tom Riddle.” Yes, Dumbles, because you never tell anyone. Which seems somewhat odd, given that the pureblood fanatics who apparently make up his biggest supporters might hesitate at joining a known half-blood. Plus, of course, it’s a lot harder to be scared of Tommy Riddle of Slytherin House than it is of Lord Voldemort, Master of Death.

And a lot harder to therefore support Dumbledore - if LV were really gone, we wouldn't need DD's protection and he'd be gone from Hogwarts, the Wizengamot and the UN thingy. Who, after all, keeps saying that LV is definitely coming back?

* Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled the sword out of the Hat, apparently. So does that mean that no other House member would be able to receive help from the Hat, or would they have pulled out something equally cool? If, say, Pansy had been taken into the Chamber and Draco had gone down to rescue her, would he have pulled out Slytherin’s crossbow or something?
Probably a mirror, given that that's what is usually used in legends to kill basilisks. You know, something more useful than a sword that Harry has never used.

* I don’t believe the cursing families part, either. A shrewd political operator like Lucius would never resort to something so obviously illegal. More likely the governors are just trying to cover their backsides in case Dumbledore’s angry with them. You know what he’s like about personal loyalty, after all.

True. They were all probably looking for a chance to be rid of him.

* If any more of Voldemort’s schoolthings turn up, Mr. Weasley will have them traced back to Lucius. That’s right, one of the main good guys is going to frame his personal enemy based on nothing more than a hunch.

And Arthur Weasley will go after Lucius for mere possession of Dark artifacts, when Arthur has been enchanting Muggle artifacts and leaving them around for his wayward children to find (I think Draco would have thought twice about taking a flying car to a Muggle suburb...)

* Unfortunately, being free doesn’t seem to have changed Dobby’s inherent servility.

Just like black people! ;)

* So Percy – who, let us not forget, seems to have cared for Ginny the most out of all the Weasley brothers – has specifically asked her not to tell anyone about his girlfriend, so what does she do? Tell as soon as someone asks. In front of the twins. The best you can say is probably that she’s being extraordinarily naïve; the worst, I suppose, is that she’s maliciously hoping that the twins’ persecution of Percy might amuse her in some way.

I think she just wants them to like her.

Date: 2011-01-15 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seductivedark.livejournal.com
And a lot harder to therefore support Dumbledore - if LV were really gone, we wouldn't need DD's protection and he'd be gone from Hogwarts, the Wizengamot and the UN thingy. Who, after all, keeps saying that LV is definitely coming back?

Ooh, wild konspirasy theory! Peter Pettigrew, a Gryffindor, was the one who revived the fetal Voldy. PP was a member of Order Mach 1 and we can theorize that DD was a Gryffindor via Hermione's statement in PS/SS, through the griffin door knocker and, through DD's not so tacit support of IOKIAGDI. Critical thinkers wonder how DD knew LV was in Albania; where the fetal form came from; how PP, a supposedly mundane wizard, came up with the Bone of my Father ritual to revive LV and, how a not apparently brave person like PP could cut of his own hand for the purpose of that ritual (though this may be foreshadowed by his cutting off a finger to "prove" his death eleven years earlier - or could it???)

Suggestions for a Trew Konspirasy:
1) DD sent PP to Voldy deliberately as an undercover agent posing as a double agent. When PP was made SK, he dutifully reported to DD. DD tells him to to ahead and reveal the Potters' whereabouts to Voldy, intimating that there would be a trap (but not mentioning that the trap was to get Voldy to kill the Potters so as to set up the Chosen One.) After the debacle, PP searches out DD (while Sirius is giving Hagrid the motorbike) and confronts him. DD mind-wipes him and Imperiuses him to fight Sirius and cut off his finger. PP only remembers that he betrayed his friends and fought Sirius. He follows DD's post-hypnotic suggestion of becoming the Weasleys' pet since the Weasleys have a connection with Order martyrs and a son who will be in Harry's year in school. He doesn't know why he does this but he does know he's still loyal to the Order in his heart.

2) As a loyal Order member, PP went to DD immediately upon arriving with his first Weasley owner at Hogwarts, throwing himself on DD's mercy for the weird things he did (see above,) following the pattern of putting himself in DD's debt. DD welcomes him and advises that he remain in rat form for the nonce because it will further the Order's plans to capture Voldy, who is actually still alive. Meanwhile, DD keeps the fear fires burning over Voldy's return in the WW.

3) Because Sirius broke out of Azkaban (Peter the spy's fatal mistake here - allowing his rat form to be photographed) it's time to revive Voldy. DD instructs PP to escape once Sirius is about to be captured. He is to go to Albania to gather rare ingredients for a job.

4) PP brings the rare ingredients back during the summer and DD creates the fetal body, animating it with a spell - a Magimatronic puppet, a riff on the Inferi. PP takes care of it because he fears DD by now and the puppet, like a portrait in more than one place, can report on his actions to the caster.

5) Under duress or Imperius, PP goes through with the ritual to "bring Voldy back." It's another riff on the Inferi spell, creating a Frankenstein from the puppet that has some of TR sr's traits due to the bone - a demonic version of LiveBoy!Pinocchio. This creation is under DD's power.

6) At DD's commands, the creation wreaks havoc in the WW and leads LV's old followers along, proving that DD was right and forcing everyone in the WW to turn to him and his organization. DD's big fault was arrogance in somehow injuring himself beyond repair. The Hallows were all a front devised by DD and implanted into key figures like Xeno and Olivander, and suggested in the book he bequeathed to Hermione, to lead Harry along. There is no real LV to die, the puppet merely self-destructs at the appropriately keyed moment, assured that Harry will use his "signature spell" due to DD's recent mentoring.

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Date: 2011-01-15 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
* Someone really ought to write a parody fic with Dumbledore as this sinister villain controlling everything behind the scenes, and the Death Eaters as a group of noble freedom-fighters trying to overthrow him, who have an unfair reputation as a group of dark wizards due to Dumbledore’s control of the press. Or better yet, Voldemort could be an agent working for Dumbledore, giving the WW something to unite against in order to stop them questioning Dumbledore’s authority.

I think both of these have been done. Certainly the first one has; it's one of my favorite fanfic genres. ;)

* Dumbledore doesn’t seem surprised that Lockhart tried to memory charm Harry and Ron. So does this mean that he knew all along about Gilderoy’s modus operandi? And he still hired him nevertheless? Remind me again, why is it that Dumbledore’s considered the greatest Headmaster Hogwarts has ever had?

Because he's threatened or spelled everyone into saying so?

* I don’t believe the cursing families part, either. A shrewd political operator like Lucius would never resort to something so obviously illegal. More likely the governors are just trying to cover their backsides in case Dumbledore’s angry with them. You know what he’s like about personal loyalty, after all.

THANK YOU. Lucius did not get to the point of wielding the sort of influence he supposedly does by being *stupid* like that. And word on the Arthur Weasley thing. I love Arthur, but he is far from saintly.

And is it just me, or is the notion that the big bad villain's *schoolthings* are all such a terrible danger just...hilarious, in a not good way? "Voldemort's schoolthings," oooooh. What, is the quill he used in Charms class cursed too? His textbook must be the terror of ten counties. Why didn't JKR just hang onto this brilliant idea til the end? "Harry Potter and Voldemort's Schoolthings." Much better than the wtf "Deathly Hallows." *g*

Strike that. "Harry Potter and Tommy Riddle's Schoolthings." Even better.

I mean, it's not like Tommy was using the diary *himself.* It was designed to be a weapon; it wasn't just part of his "schoolthings."

Date: 2011-01-15 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sharaz-jek.livejournal.com
And is it just me, or is the notion that the big bad villain's *schoolthings* are all such a terrible danger just...hilarious, in a not good way? "Voldemort's schoolthings," oooooh. What, is the quill he used in Charms class cursed too? His textbook must be the terror of ten counties. Why didn't JKR just hang onto this brilliant idea til the end? "Harry Potter and Voldemort's Schoolthings." Much better than the wtf "Deathly Hallows." *g*

Strike that. "Harry Potter and Tommy Riddle's Schoolthings." Even better.


I think you win the internet for this.

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Date: 2011-01-15 07:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com
* I don’t believe the cursing families part, either. A shrewd political operator like Lucius would never resort to something so obviously illegal. More likely the governors are just trying to cover their backsides in case Dumbledore’s angry with them. You know what he’s like about personal loyalty, after all.

THANK YOU. Lucius did not get to the point of wielding the sort of influence he supposedly does by being *stupid* like that. And word on the Arthur Weasley thing. I love Arthur, but he is far from saintly.


*Yes*. I'd like to third this.

Also, here are some ways that Lucius could get other governors to vote for Dumbledore's removal without threatening them:

* Offering money
* Offering to vote the way they want on another issue
* Suggesting that the governors should have more authority over the school, but that they won't while Dumbledore's headmaster
* Suggesting that Person X, who Governor Y would like to be headmaster, could replace Dumbledore
* Arguing that Dumbledore really doesn't run the school well in general, and this provides a good excuse to remove him even if it isn't guaranteed to solve the problem
* Pointing out that if the governors don't act, parents will be angry with them
* Pointing out that if something isn't done, their own kid(s) at Hogwarts will be in danger, and that Dumbledore isn't doing anything
* Calling in past favors
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Date: 2011-01-16 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com
After this discussion of Tom as a student, and so on, I got an idea regarding the prophecy.

Born to those who thrice defied the Dark Lord? So, anyone with parents or grandparents who, say, cut ahead of Tom in line three times, perhaps?

One of those defiances probably involved taking the last portion of dessert at dinner one night when Tom asked first. (nods sagely)

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Date: 2011-01-15 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charlottehywd.livejournal.com
Good point about the sorting hat- perhaps non-Griffindors are just screwed? But then, It seems like Ravenclaw would at least get a how-to list of how to kill a basilisk.

Date: 2011-01-15 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madderbrad.livejournal.com
But then, It seems like Ravenclaw would at least get a how-to list of how to kill a basilisk.

Heh. I can just see it. A Ravenclaw about to face down the basilisk, prays for help, puts on the hat, a bit *THUMP* hits him on the noggin, he removes the hat and out falls --

a book.

'One Hundred and One ways to Defeat a Basilisk'.

Unfortunately the poor Ravenclaw only has time to read page 1 - the best way to defeat a basilisk in combat is not to be there in the first place - before the giant snake gobbles him up.

:-)

Date: 2011-01-15 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolf-willow31.livejournal.com
I’d like to think that Helga Hufflepuff, at least, would have offered up her weapon ... to anyone who needed it, regardless of House.

It's hard to figure out why Hufflepuffs are so despised by the other houses (and the author).

Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled the sword out of the Hat, apparently.

And now that I think about it, what did old Godric need with a sword anyway? Was he in the habit of losing his wand?

On the other hand, maybe Voldie should have given up on his wands and used a sword on Harry. Yes, I can see it now: the Sword of Voldemort, its hilt entwined with silver snakes, and studded with black onyx and jet. :D

Date: 2011-01-15 06:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
Yes, it's a bit harder to come 'back' from the 'dead' when you're not only actually dead, but in two pieces as well. If only. Harry certainly would never have seen it coming.

Harry: Wha- hey, that's not faiir!!- *swish whump gurgle*
Voldie: Ah. That's better. Now where was I?

Date: 2011-01-15 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com
Because Hufflepuffs are ordinary, not special like Harry, who is completely unremarkable as a wizard, student, etc. I guess it makes sense to some people.

Seriously, Voldemort *should* have used a sword. Or a knife, or gun, whatever. Maybe a piano set up to fall on Harry's head; that would be his style, wouldn't it? And no magic to bounce back.

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Voldemort's Piano

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Date: 2011-01-15 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
for diddled, every line in this spork earned laughter and/or thumbs up from me. Thanks for everything!

Date: 2011-01-15 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com
* Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled the sword out of the Hat, apparently. So does that mean that no other House member would be able to receive help from the Hat, or would they have pulled out something equally cool? If, say, Pansy had been taken into the Chamber and Draco had gone down to rescue her, would he have pulled out Slytherin’s crossbow or something?

A Slytherin would have gotten a water gun filled with the potion that turned Trevor into a tadpole in PoA, which would be effective at a distance. A Ravenclaw would have been given a mirror to reflect the basilisk's own reflection back at it, which would be effective at a distance but awkward. A Hufflepuff would have gotten a rooster, which would be the least clever but most practical.

Well, least clever except for the Sword of Gryffindor, which requires skill *and* requires you to be a sword-length from the basilisk when you use it.

...Oh, okay, maybe the Hat can't offer you situation-appropriate things. Um, maybe Slytherins would get a portkey that can transport everyone to safety. (Because retreat *is* an option.) I guess Ravenclaws would get a book that would tell them whatever they needed to know, but that would impede acting quickly. Hufflepuffs... wouldn't be in a situation alone, so they'd've probably worked something out without the Hat. Suggestions on what the Hat might give to them?

Date: 2011-01-15 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sharaz-jek.livejournal.com
Suggestions on what the Hat might give to them?

Their friends?

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Date: 2011-01-15 10:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aikaterini.livejournal.com
/Yes, Dumbles, because you never tell anyone. Which seems somewhat odd, given that the pureblood fanatics who apparently make up his biggest supporters might hesitate at joining a known half-blood./

One wonders why *Harry* didn't make this knowledge public either. Sure, he told Bellatrix and the other Death Eaters in the Department of Mysteries that Voldemort was a half-blood and Bellatrix apparently didn't believe him, but why wasn't he trying to spread the news around Hogwarts or tell his friends to let everybody know? Why didn't the Weasleys, after hearing that Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle, try to spread that information?

/* I wonder if Dumbledore’s being so lenient to Ginny here because he’s remembering how he was once taken in by Grindlewald?/

Ha, I never thought of that! One wonders if Dumbledore was referring to himself during his line about "older and wiser wizards [being] hoodwinked by Lord Voldemort." Or, if one wants to be more cynical about it, one might say, "Well, yeah, Albus, older and wiser wizards than Ginny were hoodwinked by Voldemort...because you didn't tell them the truth about him! You *let* him hoodwink them!"

/* Special Awards for Services to the School and two hundred points? Hardly an appropriate reward, IMHO./

I wonder if it's supposed to be ironic, considering that Tom Riddle received the same trophy for supposedly ridding the school of another monster.

/* Harry doesn’t think he’s like Tom, because Harry’s in Gryffindor and Tom’s just a Slytherin. Oh dear. Maybe Voldemort’s idea of abolishing Houses was a good one after all./

It's ironic that Gryffindor is supposed to be the superior House, while Slytherin House is evil and Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff are mostly ignored and left by the wayside, yet Voldemort's speech about Slytherin becoming the only House in Hogwarts is supposed to be unfair and prejudiced.

/* Also, note how Harry thinks “doing well in Slytherin” means “evil”./

Remind me again why Slytherin even still exists in Hogwarts if it's supposed to be the House of bullies, traitors, and racists? As the House of *bad* kids? Why have a House that's viewed as the wizarding equivalent of St. Brutus' Secure Center for Incurably Criminal Boys? Because it's tradition? Because even though Salazar Slytherin is viewed as evil incarnate, he was still once a member of the Founders? That's still no reason to have what's basically the dumping ground for troubled children.

/* This would be an excellent opportunity for Dumbledore to say to Harry, “Look, Harry, I know you don’t like some Slytherin students, but Slytherins are people too, Slytherin House is every bit as good as any other House, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being sorted into Slytherin.” Instead, he seems to confirm Harry’s idea that choosing not to be sorted into Slytherin is some sort of moral test he had to pass./

Even his line about Harry being better than Tom Riddle because Harry chose to reject Slytherin while Tom did not is disingenuous. Tom didn't reject Slytherin because Tom probably knew *nothing* about Slytherin! He grew up in the Muggle world just like Harry did. The only reason that Harry believed that avoiding Slytherin was a priority was because Hagrid told him that Slytherin was the only House that produced Dark (i.e. evil) wizards and because Draco Malfoy, a boy he had just met and disliked very much, had just been sorted there. Yeah, Harry made a choice, a choice based on hearsay and anger against another individual. Real moral fiber there.

/* So why did the governors want Dumbledore back? When has he done anything to stop the attacks?/

In the real world, Dumbledore would have been sacked ages ago. In the wizarding world, unpleasant things like possession and attempted murder should be quickly forgotten about and swept under the rug, never to be spoken of again.

/* Ginny Weasley’s perfectly happy again. She may have recklessly endangered her fellow-students’ safety (why did she write in that diary again? Why?), but none of them actually died, so that’s OK./

Again, sweep it under the rug, sweep it under the rug...

Date: 2011-01-15 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
No no no, silly. Voldemort's making Slytherin the only House isn't evil and wrong because it's singling one House out as superior, it's that he's making *Slytherin* superior and denying the inherent purity and goodness and superiority of *Gryffindor.* THAT'S why it's bad.

Slytherin exists so that everybody can tell right away who is good and trustworthy and who not by the color of their scarf, and in order to keep all the evil kids from sullying and perverting the other Houses with their evilness and deviousness. And also so that the brave upholders of the good, the Gryffs, have a practice group to learn on in school. See, it's compassionate: they're allowed to be at Hogwarts and not all arrested immediately after being Sorted because of the very faint hope that some of them might avoid actually doing anything too wrong, and just sort of exist miserably in roles supporting the others and giving people an excuse to complain if something goes a way they don't like politically; they Slyths get to be there to be scapegoats. Plus the Aurors will need somebody to catch someday.

/sarcasm

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Date: 2011-01-15 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madderbrad.livejournal.com
I know this is the second of the 'obviously for kids' books, so we're not supposed to look too closely, but reading your recap just fills my poor confused mind with questions. Like -

After HBP, I wouldn’t be surprised to know that he’d guessed from the start, but has been sitting on the information to let Harry “try his strength” or whatever.

Dumbledore's attitude in this chapter that he knew everything from the start really really REALLY peeved me, as I recall. It's no wonder there were so many fanfics over the years that had him deliberately setting up Harry's adventures, as some part of an asinine plan to 'train' Harry.

But what I'm confused about is ... is that position now rock-solid canon? When Rowling had Dumbledore say this in book 7:

    "We have protected him because it has been essential to teach him, to raise him, to let him try his strength," said Dumbledore, his eyes still tight shut.

I took it for pure bull, just her trying to sidestep questions her readers may have been asking at that point - "if it was planned for Harry to die why have we spent ten years wading through seven books of his adventures?". Because the whole 'testing his strength' thing just doesn't make sense.

(Nor did the other 'essential' item on Dumbledore's agenda, stated immediately before:

    "So the boy…the boy must die?" asked Snape quite calmly.

    "And Voldemort himself must do it, Severus. That is essential."

There was absolutely NOTHING involved in Harry's death, the release of his soul fragment or resurrection which required Riddle's being the one to deliver the death blow. Nothing. But Rowling needed the readers to believe that her series mandated the expected big showdown between the two, so she hoped Dumbledore's/her unsupported bluster here would be accepted without question.)

Anyway, even though it makes no sense for Dumbledore to plan for his sacrificial lamb to 'test his strength' - unless anyone here can tell me otherwise - is it still canon that, in these early books, Dumbledore *did* know of - and even plan - Harry's little adventures? That could have resulted in the deaths of the Trio and any number of other students? Or did Rowling just not think of the implications when she threw in those 'essential' statements of Dumbledore's in DH?

“Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was actually called Tom Riddle.” Yes, Dumbles, because you never tell anyone.

Ludicrous, isn't it? And yet that's one big bluff that Rowling got away with. She needed Riddle to spearhead the DEs and drive them with the pureblood agenda, so Dumbledore, leader of the Wizarding World, just kept that secret to himself, and Harry never questions this.

So “Lucius throws a sock which Dobby happens to catch” is now the same as “Lucius hands Dobby a sock.” Hmm, you’re on shaky legal grounds there, I think.

Yeah, that was yet another example of Rowling just throwing something together for the convenience of her plot and hoping it would stick. My god, why in blazes did this series get to be so popular? And everyone shocked when she just kept doing the same thing? Was it because there was just SO MUCH of it, defying belief, blowing all the fuses, in the last book?

So Percy – who, let us not forget, seems to have cared for Ginny the most out of all the Weasley brothers – has specifically asked her not to tell anyone about his girlfriend, so what does she do? Tell as soon as someone asks.

Oh, THANK YOU. I'm adding this to the list of why Ginny Weasley is simply a not-very-nice girl.

See, the Ginny supporters in the fandom don't like to consider all of her bad qualities (which is most of her appearances in books 6 & 7). In particular they sidestep the fact that Ginny betrayed Hermione's confidence in HBP. Ginny's telling Ron that Hermione had kissed Krum is what started the whole miserable and pathetic sequence of ugly puerile jealousy that filled up most of that book. All Ginny Weasley's fault, betraying Hermione's confidence to get herself off the hook when Ron accosts her about kissing Dean.

This is a beautiful parallel to that and just shows how nasty this girl is.

Thanks for your critique of the book, it's been good fun!

Date: 2011-01-15 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sharaz-jek.livejournal.com
There was absolutely NOTHING involved in Harry's death, the release of his soul fragment or resurrection which required Riddle's being the one to deliver the death blow. Nothing. But Rowling needed the readers to believe that her series mandated the expected big showdown between the two, so she hoped Dumbledore's/her unsupported bluster here would be accepted without question.)

Maybe he wanted Voldemort to be sure of Harry's death? Voldemort believed the prophecy even if Albus didn't. Of course, if the prophecy turned out to have real power, there was the risk that Voldemort was the only person who could kill Harry since the blood protection might not kick in if one of the pair kills the other (in the same way you'd always want to retain the option of, say, amputating an infected limb).

Anyway, even though it makes no sense for Dumbledore to plan for his sacrificial lamb to 'test his strength' - unless anyone here can tell me otherwise - is it still canon that, in these early books, Dumbledore *did* know of - and even plan - Harry's little adventures? That could have resulted in the deaths of the Trio and any number of other students? Or did Rowling just not think of the implications when she threw in those 'essential' statements of Dumbledore's in DH?

I don't know if Albus was actively planning them, but he was certainly turning a blind eye (and possibly subconsciously hoping Harry would die in one of them).

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Date: 2011-01-16 04:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mary-j-59.livejournal.com
Someone really ought to write a parody fic with Dumbledore as this sinister villain controlling everything behind the scenes, and the Death Eaters as a group of noble freedom-fighters trying to overthrow him, who have an unfair reputation as a group of dark wizards due to Dumbledore’s control of the press. Or better yet, Voldemort could be an agent working for Dumbledore, giving the WW something to unite against in order to stop them questioning Dumbledore’s authority.

One could argue that this has already been done, for real. The book is called "The Deathly Hallows", and it's where I, for one, found out just how much of a mirror to Voldemort Dumbledore actually is. He's evil, definitely!

Date: 2011-01-16 11:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
how long has Dumbles known that Riddle’s been possessing Ginny? After HBP, I wouldn’t be surprised to know that he’d guessed from the start, but has been sitting on the information to let Harry “try his strength”.

It is pretty suspicious how well-informed he is- he knows straightaway without Harry telling that Ginny was 'enchanted' by Voldy. So...when exactly did he figure that out? You're right, I wouldn't put it past him to let matters unfold as they would, either to prime Harry into becoming a hero or leaving him to become basilisk fodder. If he dies, it just means another horcrux is destroyed, after all. On the plus side, if the boy survives, it's 'coz he expressed loyalty to Dumbles and is more strongly than ever his puppet.

I'm also very cynical about his reasons for never revealing Voldy's roots. As you say, it would demoralize the DE movement to find out their grand and glorious pureblood fanatic leader is a halfblood. Then again, Dumbles likes the power and prestige that comes with opposing him and gathering influence and supporters to challenge him. It validates his need to control and manipulate others. Imagine a world with no Voldy or Grindelwald to foil, Dumbles would probably become the Dark Lord himself.

this Machiavellian schoolteacher is controlling everything behind the scenes.

What's creepy is how quickly people- characters and readers- equate loyalty to Dumbles with being virtuous. Never mind how ridiculous and childish and stupid it is (DH, I'm looking at you), faith in Dumbledore is next to godliness.

Seriously, for all his supposed modesty in not accepting the Minister of Magic post, he seems to have acquired a remarkably large amount of influence. He’s already Headmaster of wizarding Britain’s only school, Supreme Warlock of the Wizengamot, Chief Mugwump and head of the International Confederation of Wizards, which in Muggle terms is like being Education Secretary, Speaker of the House of Commons, Lord Chancellor and Secretary-General of the UN

♥ this whole paragraph. People always talk about how HUMBLE Dumbles is for turning it down, how that choice shows how 'good' he is, how he doesn't have ambition and just wants what's best for everyone. *snorts* No, that's just the one job where you aren't your own man and have to answer to everyone else. Dumbles likes positions of power where you can't be questioned and don't owe anything to anyone. Okay, sure, there are the governors but look how quick they revoked their sentence.

two hundred points? Not only is fighting millennium-old monsters not a recognised extra-curricular activity, making it inappropriate to give them points for it

This bothers me so much. It's not fair on all the other kids- points are for doing well in class and helping out around school and being a good, productive kid in general. It shouldn't be for crazy suicide missions that succeed against all improbability AND which involve holding a teacher at wandpoint and forcing him into the lair of a dangerous deadly monster! They should've lost all their points for that! But what does Dumbles care for reckless endangerment of human life, right?

So does this mean that he knew all along about Gilderoy’s modus operandi? And he still hired him nevertheless? Remind me again, why is it that Dumbledore’s considered the greatest Headmaster Hogwarts has ever had?

IFKR? He hires all these dangerous incompetent or dangerous full stop teachers- and it makes me boil over with anger how everyone in-universe and the readers hate on Percy for not realizing his boss- whom he communicated with mostly by owl, iirc?- was Imperiused (when hello, so many people got Imperiused and nobody could tell!) but Dumbles gets off scot-free with hiring a polyjuiced DE who's supposed to be his friend/ally and doesn't realize anything's amiss.

(On a side note, I read this great fic in which Snape got an award acknowledging him as the best headmaster Hogwarts had for doing an impressive job protecting the students and not losing any while he was headmaster- even under duress, at the darkest time in Hogwarts history, with a DE regime in place. I thought it was by tearsofphoenix but I can't find it now, anyone have any idea whose it was?)

Date: 2011-01-16 07:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aikaterini.livejournal.com
/It is pretty suspicious how well-informed he is- he knows straightaway without Harry telling that Ginny was 'enchanted' by Voldy./

He's very well-informed, but the problem is that he doesn't do anything with all the knowledge he has. I know that he was supposed to come across as all-knowing and wise, but since he doesn't do anything with his knowledge and wisdom, he just comes across as grossly negligent and indifferent.

/I'm also very cynical about his reasons for never revealing Voldy's roots. As you say, it would demoralize the DE movement to find out their grand and glorious pureblood fanatic leader is a halfblood./

The only ways that Dumbledore wouldn't look as culpable for keeping quiet would be if he had indeed tried to reveal Voldemort's background, but was forced to remain silent (by the Death Eaters, Ministry, Voldemort, etc.) or if he actually didn't know that Voldemort and Tom Riddle were the same person until many years later.

/it makes me boil over with anger how everyone in-universe and the readers hate on Percy for not realizing his boss- whom he communicated with mostly by owl, iirc?- was Imperiused (when hello, so many people got Imperiused and nobody could tell!) but Dumbles gets off scot-free with hiring a polyjuiced DE who's supposed to be his friend/ally and doesn't realize anything's amiss.

Barty Crouch Jr. himself says that it was difficult for the Ministry to ascertain who was under the Imperius Curse and who wasn't. Sirius says that during the first war, it was hard to see who was on which side, so clearly the Imperius Curse is not easy to detect. Besides, wasn't Barty Crouch Sr. ordered to act normal while under the Imperius Curse and it was only when he started to fight it that he started acting noticeably odd?

Date: 2011-01-16 11:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
Maybe Voldemort’s idea of abolishing Houses was a good one after all.

BEST IDEA HE'S EVER HAD. Destroying that Hat? FRAK YES. Too bad the bloody thing survived. I bet all the future students aren't thrilled having a smoky charred mess on their heads.

note how Harry thinks “doing well in Slytherin” means “evil”.

*headdeskwallfloor* Somebody posted an epic comment a while back on how JKR wrote a book on racism and prejudice- but it wasn't about Muggle-borns, it was about Slytherins. Everything about these books promotes intolerance and divisiveness and hatred towards Slytherins and none of the pro-Jo fans can see it. It's all about one word 'mudblood' when there's this subversive, underlying attitude that everyone has and nobody questions- Slytherins are evil.

Instead, he seems to confirm Harry’s idea that choosing not to be sorted into Slytherin is some sort of moral test he had to pass.

Okay, to be fair to Dumbles (CANNOT BELIEVE I JUST SAID THAT), he did say Salazar prized qualities like resourcefulness and determination, which is positive. He also mentioned 'a certain disregard for rules', which is BS, 'coz that's a Gryffindor trait if ever I saw one.

But yeah, he ruins it when he says 'you're different from that evil sociopath because you chose not to go into his house, unlike all the other sociopaths-in-the-making, who are just waiting to commit crimes and harm others, that's inevitable, 'coz they chose Slytherin!'

I think that maybe Dumbledore knows deep down that he’d have been better-suited to Slytherin than Gryffindor and compensates by doing down Slytherin House whenever he can get away with it

Do we know for sure that he wasn't in Slytherin? (I think it's Caeria's fic that has Hermione researching to find out what house he was in and finding out that nobody knew and it wasn't on record anywhere because the headmaster's supposed to be unbiased and impartial so it's like, magically concealed or something? Or did I just dream that up? It doesn't sound very convincing when I put it like that, but I remember her challenging the boys to find some scrap of evidence that Dumbles was a Gryff and they couldn't and that made some grand point somehow)

Also, I totally buy that reasoning. Sometimes what we hate in others is the weakness we see mirrored in ourselves.

If Pansy had been taken into the Chamber and Draco had gone down to rescue her, would he have pulled out Slytherin’s crossbow

Hee, I read that as Pansy wielding the crossbow and had a flash of her as Susan from Narnia! (coolest weapon ever- it never misses, how great is that? Sure, Lucy's 'help when you most need it' is cool, but so passive)

I’d like to think that Helga Hufflepuff would have offered up her weapon (battle-axe, maybe? Mace?) to anyone who needed it, regardless of House

Love that idea! Of course Helga would look out for anyone who needed help and not discriminate!

why did the governors want Dumbledore back? When has he done anything to stop the attacks?

IKR? So he's done nothing all year and the kids have only not died due to extreme plot convenience and they're fine with them being in comas for months on end. Then he's taken out of the picture and a kid goes missing (missing, not confirmed dead, right?) and they fall over backwards to reinstall him? What exactly do they think he can do about it?!

Date: 2011-01-16 07:04 pm (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (spandex jackets)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Dumbledore being a Slytherin would make plenty of sense: he's trying to destroy the competition! His cover, the Gryffindor rumor, would sound plausible, because who would act so often against his own house, right? And he could pull that same trick Tom does of finding common ground with people he's recruiting: "Snape, did you know I was actually in Slytherin? And I too was taken in by a dark wizard in my youth... but now I see the light, and can help you too!"

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Disregard for the rules

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Date: 2011-01-16 12:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
And this chapter just confirms that the whole plot was about the Weasleys (okay, so it's Dumbles say-so, but JKR's weakness is having him theorize what she wants people to accept as gospel truth), so IDEK why Dobby had to flail at Harry at the beginning of the year and bar him from Hogwarts and break his arm and everything, the idiot.

I did like the theory that Dobby was doing it in his own best interests- who's Ginny Weasley to him after all? But this is the Boy-Who-Lived! Impress him by protecting him from some threat and the boy will reward him in the future! As we see in this chapter- through that totally bogus way of freeing Dobby. I mean, wtf, Harry gave his own sock to Lucius- and omg, HOW GROSS IS THAT, forcing his slimy, filthy sock into his hand!- and the dude tossed it away, it wasn't like some grand gesture capable of ending a binding magical contract! Dobby could probably have freed himself ages ago- if Hermione hiding socks under things in the common room could free them, surely Dobby finding a sock under a blanket or behind a curtain or something would be a suitable pretext.

But back to the diary for a sec. I still don't see when Lucius had time to slip a diary into the schoolbooks when he was taunting the Weasleys and Grangers and engaging in fisticuffs with Arthur (the ill-mannered boor). Hmm. I think there was another theory that it was Dobby who was ordered to slip the diary to Harry (meaning the plot was against him the whole time) but he saw the chance to creatively interpret his orders and managed to slip it into Ginny's things instead.

I don’t believe the cursing families part, either. A shrewd political operator like Lucius would never resort to something so obviously illegal.

So Lucius, a man whom even Voldemort described as “slippery”, now virtually goes to pieces the moment his plot’s uncovered.


THIIIIS. He's the one who bent over backwards to claim he was under Imperius in order to stay out of Azkaban! Why would he threaten a whole bunch of well-respected and influential wizards when they could clap his ass back in jail? I think it's pretty telling that he suffers no real consequences and rises to power in the Ministry in the following year. Wouldn't they speak out against him and make sure he was done for and blackball him? Out of self-preservation, to make sure he doesn't get too powerful and threaten them again, if not out of self-righteous anger?

Also, I hate hate HATE how he actually loses his cool and lunges for Harry not two seconds away from Dumbles' hearing! And then he's actually cowed into submission by Dobby! Hang on, a notable Dark wizard DE, sadistic and vicious as he is, can't fight back against a house-elf? Has no choice but to retreat, tail tucked between his legs? SERIOUSLY?!

I hope than when Dumbles cancelled all those exams, he just cancelled the internal end-of-year ones, rather than the OWLs and NEWTs. How’re those seventh-years going to get jobs without any qualifications?

THIS IS NOT A FRAKKING SCHOOL TREAT. How in the hell does this nuthouse qualify as a school? Exams are important! They suck, but they do matter! Not just for those who need official qualifications for their future careers, but also so that teachers can see who's learned what and where they're lacking and need more help. Then again, like Hogwarts or JKR was ever that concerned about a paltry thing like education.

Lucius the Bellatrix-clone--not!

Date: 2011-01-16 03:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terri-testing.livejournal.com
Actually, there's a way to read his character consistently. He's a plotter, a behind-the-scenes manipulator, but he's not good at reacting to the unexpected. In the DE's, he wasn't a fighter like Bellatrix or Antonin but Tom's spy and manipulator (in mostly-legal ways) in the Ministry and Pureblood high society.

It's fanfic that he's a great duellst, but it's not really supported by what we see of him in action.

Put him in a crisis, hit him with the unexpected, make him deal directly with violence against fellow wizards, and he doesn't do well. Ever.

Not here, not when Arthur attacked him in the bookstore, not at the QWC when he saw the Mark, not at the MoM when things went pear-shaped....

He loses his temper or he loses his nerve, or both.

Crude threats

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The Importance of Education

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Date: 2011-01-16 12:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
So Percy – who, let us not forget, seems to have cared for Ginny the most out of all the Weasley brothers – has specifically asked her not to tell anyone about his girlfriend, so what does she do? Tell as soon as someone asks. In front of the twins

What a little brat, she pisses me off so much. Okay, she's not as bad as HBP!Ginny but still! This is the brother that noticed something was wrong and was concerned for her and who made the twins stop harassing her and giving her nightmares, so she betrays him like this? The only way I can excuse her is if it's a ploy to get the twins off her back. Like, I love my mother, but if my father's on the warpath, I'm throwing her under the bus to get his ranting directed at her instead of me. I can understand if Ginny's trying to get them to pick on him instead of her, because, well, we've seen what the twins are like. Poor Percy.

Although that 'Ginny Weasley was perfectly happy again' makes me doubt this theory. It really seems like she just enjoyed giving them ammo to use against him. And how lovely for her that she immediately recovered from the trauma of being possessed by the Dark Lord and forced to hurt her classmates. O.o My god, there was SUCH an interesting story going on with Ginny, this whole fascinating psychological angle to her- how did that possession affect her? Did she put on a happy facade but still suffer beneath it? Is that what turned her into the vicious, callous harpy we see in HBP? Tom hurt her badly and that informed her personality to the point where she was determined never to let anyone get the better of her again and so she hardened herself and adopted her 'hex first' policy?- but JKR just threw it away. I wouldn't have minded H/G if she'd put some effort into developing this character and giving her some complexity. I mean, I actually like Draco and find him sympathetic, despite her best efforts, so if she'd tried something similar, been aware Ginny was a repulsive entitled brat but given some inkling of her inner turmoil and wounded spirit and fixation on control and besting everyone around her to rebuild her shattered ego, it would've been so much better.

Instead we get a Mary Sue who's the most popular and beautiful and desirable girl in school. *eyeroll* Of course, Harry deserves no less.

Aww, I'm sad the read-through's over, I really enjoyed this! Well, at least there's GoF on now, yay! ^_^

Date: 2011-01-16 07:22 pm (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (spandex jackets)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
You know, on reflection, JKR could have gone ahead and had the Voldemort/Tom connection come out - and have had it backfire and help set up some things for later. Suppose Harry and/or Dumbledore started making noises about Voldemort really being the halfblood Tom Riddle. The DEs are already fanatics, and we saw Bellatrix just flat doesn't believe it, so it's easy enough to imagine that Voldemort convinces them all it's a clever lie - one they can exploit, however. So meanwhile, everyone else starts looking askance at halfbloods and Muggleborns, wondering if they're prone to that sort of thing because of their ties with the Muggle world (not really one of us, who knows what those Muggles teach them, no respect for wizarding ways...). And with that sort of fear going around, it's easier for Umbridge and co. to get away with that "Muggles stealing magic" story later, and everyone starts looking to Purebloods for guidance... just as Voldemort and the DEs planned!

Date: 2011-01-16 08:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] condwiramurs.livejournal.com
You should read pogrebin's "unsticking the shadow." Clever!Voldemort has precisely this idea. It's very well done, and rather chilling.

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Date: 2011-01-17 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] annoni-no.livejournal.com
I've never quite understood why everyone seems to take Dumbledore at his word when he says that 'only a true Gryffindor could have pulled the sword out of the hat.' The gentleman in question lies as easily (and frequently) as he breathes, and in the context of this conversion is clearly trying to manipulate a child into seeing himself a certain way (i.e. as a 'true Gryffindor' - as defined by the headmaster). What's more, one of his favorite types of lie is to tell a very small portion of the (technical) truth, and then allow his listener to draw their only conclusions. Such as whether his snippet of truth was actually relevant to the situation at hand or a non-sequitur that merely sounded relevant.

With that in mind, let's look at the general facts (if any of these are inaccurate, pleas correct them; I don't have the book available):

1. Both the sword and the hat which can summon it were, at one point, the property of Godric Gryffindor according to the most authoritative historical sources we're introduced to on that subject. He is also known to have enchanted his hat personally to Sort the students of future generations (although our witness on this point is the hat itself). Given this, it is not unreasonable to assume that Gryffindor also worked the enchantments on his sword and any magic linking the two.

2. The hat itself (which might reasonably be assumed to have some idea about what Gryffindor was actually trying to accomplish) told the entire school at a start-of-year feast that ALL of the founders had been close friends, even Gryffindor and Slytherin. It proceeded to criticize the current group of castle residents for their petty divisions and urged them to re-unify.

3. There are clearly some powerful enchantments on that sword. The most obvious is its ability to be transported through the hat regardless of its actual physical location, as seen when Neville was able to retrieve it in DH after Griphook had (re)claimed it earlier. There is no possible way that the Goblins would have authorized Gryffindor to make such modifications given what we know about their views on property rights. It is likely other enchantments on the sword have been forgotten through the ages, or would be accessible only to a more skilled knowledgeable user of magic than Harry. These, combined with the special qualities of Goblin tooled metal, likely made the sword a formidable weapon to one who knew how to wield it properly (and it's still adequate for a book dumb 12 year old).

Continued

Date: 2011-01-17 03:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] annoni-no.livejournal.com
4. The sword was meant to be available at Hogwarts during its times of greatest need. Since both the sword and the hat used to retrieve it during such times belonged to G.G. we can reasonably assume that he was the one who set up the system. But blindly dropping a powerful magical artifact into an ongoing crises is likely to make things worse if the wrong person got their hands on it. So, how does one make sure the right person gets it?

Backing up: how would *Godric Gryffindor* define 'the right person'?

Well, who did look for to be in his house?

Gryffindor valued 'daring, nerve, and chivalry,' as his hat phrased it at one point. These criteria were probably broadened beyond Gryffindor's ideals when it came time to automate the process, but it's not hard to see how Godric might think they were necessary traits for someone to face down a crises, especially since he was already predisposed to value them. First, it's no good giving someone a weapon if they're not brave enough to actually face the threat. The second, and probably more important piece, is that the person must have strong sense of chivalry- they must consider it their duty to protect those around them, and be trusted to follow through with it regardless of their personal feelings on the matter.

So in a way, it would be completely honest to say that pulling the sword out of the hat proves you are 'true Gryffindor' because Gryffindor himself set the safety mechanisms to only allow access to those who showed themselves to possess what he considered to be the prime virtues.

On the other hand, it's also completely dishonest. All the evidence we have says that the founders themselves were fast friends, and the sword was meant to protect HOGWARTS-the *school,* not just one house. While it might be *more likely* that someone from Gryffindor house would be able to retrieve the sword, given that they've already been somewhat preselected for Godric's favored virtues, I see no reason to assume that students of the other houses would be barred from any access whatsoever. Just because today's Gryffs would rather let people die than admit they aren't the hero, is no reason to think that founder himself felt the same way about the kids under his best friends' protection. So to summarize:

In Conclusion, anyone at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry can retrieve Gryffindor's sword from the Sorting Hat as long as they display the prerequisite courage and chivalry.

Re: Continued

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Re: Continued

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Re: Continued

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Gryffindor's Sword

From: [identity profile] annoni-no.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-17 10:56 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Gryffindor's Sword Continued

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Re: Gryffindor's Sword Continued

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Re: Gryffindor's Sword

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Re: Gryffindor's Sword

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Re: Gryffindor's Sword

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Re: Gryffindor's Sword

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Movie changes

Date: 2011-01-18 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nx74defiant.livejournal.com
The movie changed the "giving" of the sock to Dobby to have it not be such a stretch. They had Lucius giving Dobby the book not knowing the sock was inside. In the book all an elf needs to do is be waiting when the master tosses aside a piece of clothing and catching it. The movie way makes more sense and is less gross. Stuffing the diary in a 12 year old boys sock. Ugggh!I remember what my son's socks where like at that age. Not something you wanted to hold onto.

Date: 2011-02-24 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com
Very interesting insight regarding Percy!

Maybe he has low self-esteem and compensates by putting on a bit of a confident facade? /Wild Mass Guessing.

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