Why write the *Defense* job as the cursed one?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Why did JKR make it be the Defense job that was cursed?  Having a cursed class did allow her to regularly introduce new professors, and I can understand wanting to do that, particularly since the action was mostly confined to the school.  But why the Defense job?

I can think of some unflattering reasons, such as not wanting to write a hero who can really *do* stuff, or not wanting to have to work out what kind of stuff such a hero would *do*. Or maybe she just wanted to ensure that readers would be interested in the class that happened to be cursed, and Defense would naturally get readers interested, particularly young readers.

Are there any really good reasons?  

We never saw Quirrell teach anything, and the book gives the impression that he wasn't teaching well. Lockhart didn't teach the actual subject at all. Lupin focused on Dark creatures, not Dark Arts; he could've been a replacement Care of Magical Creatures professor, instead of Hagrid. He still could've helped tutor Harry to fight dementors. Crouch and Umbridge's classes do work better as Defense classes, but Snape just needed to moved aside for Slughorn to take over Potions.

Frankly, JKR could've made the *History* class be the cursed one. It wouldn't've affected Quirrell, and Lockhart could still have plausibly talked about himself (as an important figure in *recent* history, of course!).

Lupin's only relevant Defense thing was tutoring Harry to fight dementors, which he could have done as a family friend even if it weren't relevant to his subject. It *was* out of class, after all. The boggart scene does contribute to the characterization, but it could've been included by, say, having Lupin premptively substitute for the Defense teacher, who would later substitute for him during the full moon.

Crouch!Moody could have focused the history class on the recent war with Voldemort, and made his class unusually interesting by demonstrating some of the spells used. (Assuming that the actual Defense class couldn't fill in that bit of background info.) He has the right personality for adding a bit of Defense to another class, and Dumbledore would still take advantage of the cursed position to have an Auror around to keep an eye on things.

Umbridge would probably still need to take over Defense, but things could shift at that point. The previous Defense teacher they'd had could have been forced to resign by the Ministry, and Binns could take over History if there was nothing else to do with that job.

And don't tell me that Voldemort wouldn't've been creepy wanting to teach history. Written by a good author, that could be as creepy as anything.

(If Voldemort actually wanted to teach, that is. The books don't make it sound like Voldemort had a very sincere interest in teaching Defense, although I do find that possibility intriguing.)

Not that it has to be History in particular, although that class would have had potential. It's amazing how little JKR did with the Defense class concept, though. It was practically only there to indicate that fighting is a part of the WW, and to excuse Harry from the need to spend time *outside* class training to fight Voldemort.

Comments

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

And if it was Dumbles' idea that Quirrell go on his expedition, isn't the timing - the year before Harry was due to enroll - a bit suspicious?

My point exactly.

If it was just a matter of desperately needing someone to fill the position because it had gotten to the point of beating the bushes and scraping the barrel to find candidates, you'd thing that Dumbles would have instructed that Snape allow Quirrell to pick his brains regarding dark arts matters, and that he'd have had Snape make the recommendation as to where Quirrell should go to gain "practical experience", if indeed Snape felt that Quirrell needed such experience.

Of course I suppose one could argue that since Snape wanted the position himself, that perhaps he'd sabotage Quirrell's efforts (or Dumbles' worried that he might) -- but like I said in another post, in Book 1 we're shown Snape and Quirrell seemingly getting along fine at the beginning of the school year, so they seem to have previously had an at least cordial professional relationship, not an antagonistic one.

If Dumbles really thought that Snape could accomplish anything in trying to teach Occulemency to Harry Potter, you'd think he'd have had Quirrell and Snape get together for dark arts lessons before having Quirrell go off for "practical experience"...

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I just happen to go back and look at a couple things, inspired by the Quirrell/Dumbledore/Snape situation we're all talking about.

I happen to end up on the page where Severus and Quirrell are meeting out in the dark forest in the first book.

But let me go foward first, We know that from Deathly Hallows, there is a memory Severus gives Harry that happens in Dumbledore's office. It's from Harry's first year, and it's apparently after Harry's first potions class.

Severus is complaining about Harry - BUT, at the end of the conversation or to end the conversation Dumbledore says this to Severus:

Dumbledore turned a page, and said, without looking up, "Keep an eye on Quirrell, won't you?"

Sooo, at the beginning of the school year; Year 1, practically in the first week of school Dumbledore is already suspitious of Quirrell, suspitious enough to tell Severus to keep an eye on Quirrell.

Then going deeper into Sorcerer's stone, Snape asks Quirrell to meet him out in the forest and the coversation goes like this. And for reading value I'm taking out Quirrells studder, I don't have the patience to type it.

"...don't know why you wanted to meet here of all places, Severus..."
"Oh, I thought we'd keep this private," said Severus, his voice icy. "Student's aren't supposed to know about the Sorcerer's stone, after all."
Harry leaned forward. Quirrell was mumbling something. Snape interrupted him.
"Have you found out how to get past the beast of Hagrid's yet?"
"But Severus, I="
"You don't want me as your enemy, Qurrell," said Snape, taking a step towards him.
"I don't know what you-"
"You know perfectly well what I mean."

((A owl hooted, blablabla HarryHarryHarry))

"-Your little bit of Hocus-pocus. I'm waiting."
"But I don't-"
"Very well," Snape cut in. "We'll have another little chat soon, when you've had time to think things over and decided where your loyalties lie."

Okay, so I posted all that because, it's clear that Severus is doing exactly what Dumbledore told him. And it's interesting to look back and see that Severus is questioning Quirrells loyalty.

So it does suggest he knows that Quirrell has changed and is different from how he was when he was teaching muggle studies.

Severus comes across as the cop in this scene, warning the bad guy he's keeping an eye on him and knows hes up to know good.

To bad Harry got in the way, might have been interesting to see how Severus handled the whole Quirrell/Voldemort thing.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The big question is whether Severus figured out Quirrell was in fact Tom (and not just Tom's servant, or even acting on his own). Because if he did and was asking him about loyalty under the guise of interrogating a dark wizard out for himself, he has balls of steel.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

The big question is whether Severus figured out Quirrell was in fact Tom (and not just Tom's servant, or even acting on his own). Because if he did and was asking him about loyalty under the guise of interrogating a dark wizard out for himself, he has balls of steel.


It's really hard to tell, on one hand you've got JKR making Severus incredibly clever, but only so clever when it serves her plot.

or, maybe it's just as easy for someone like me to look at Severus as someone who's decided, I'll do what I'm told but screw it for me doing anything other than what I'm told.

And he sorta does fit that mold in certain points throughout canon.

We know that dumbledore tells Severus after Lily's death that Voldemort will return and Harry will be in danger. So we know that back in 1981, Dumbledore has already made the assumption somehow that Voldie will be back. So to me, that has to be at the back of Severus' mind all the time.

And it doesn't matter who would have shown up, it seems to me if Dumbledore would have told Severus to keep an eye on Professor Sprout, Severus would have been damned determined to do that, no matter what he himself actually thought.

Severus seems to have lay all his trust in Dumbledore. It didn't seem to matter what Severus actually might have believed, he was trusting Dumbledore to give him the appropriate information.

Yea, Poor Severus.

But as to your point about Quirrell, I think Severus talks about it in Half-Blood Prince, telling Narcissa and Bellatrix, "I saw only greedy and unworthy Quirrell attempting to steal the stone and I admit, I did all I could to thwart him."

But you kind of have to take his comments there with a grain of salt. On one hand he is given Bell and Cissy his story but he's not telling the whole truth either. Dumbledore had set Severus on the mission to keep an eye on Quirrell.

To me, Severus had to suspect something. You've got Dumbledore telling him, years ago that Voldemort will be back and Harry will be in trouble. You've got Harry showing up for his first year at Hogwarts. You've got this very tempting Sorcerer's stone being moved to Hogwarts and you've got Quirrel, who Dumbledore says Severus needs to keep an eye on the guy.

And Severus knows and is part of the protection on the stone.

To me, a very clever man would have questioned, 1. IF Dumbledore has moved the stone to Hogwarts why is he asking me to keep an eye on Quirrell.

2. If Quirrel is not to be trusted then why is Dumbledore moving the stone here.

3. Dumbledore is moving the stone here and Harry Potter is here and Dumbledore told me Voldemort would be back and want to hurt Harry Potter.


IS it just me or does it look way more likely that Dumbledore did sort of nudge Quirrell in Voldemorts direction.

I mean, I don't know if that was JKR's intent and clearly she would have made that part of Dumbledore's confession in Kings Cross chapter - but then again, there are way to many things going on in Harry Potters first year to say some of that was not planned.

IF Dumbledore knew when Harry Potter showed up there might be trouble, Why the hell would he ever put the stone at Howarts unless it was to tempt Voldemort in.

Harry was already partly a temptation, and we know that Dumbledore needed the two to get together because Harry was supposed to die.

Dumbledore would not view Quirrell any less of a pawn as he would anyone else in his inner circle. Being a pawn certainly didn't work out for Severus did it? Why would Quirrell get better treatment than someone like Severus who was way more useful and a much more talented wizard?

The more we talk about this the more I'm almost willing to start beliving the idea. That Dumbledore might have pushed Quirrel in the Voldie direction, just to get Voldie back so he and Harry could have their meeting.

Dumbledore could have even told Quirrell something about the stone, or given Quirrel info that when Voldie met Quirrel, Voldie found the info about the stone in Quirrels mind, etc.

And that is why Voldie was more willing to come back, to get the stone. And then we have Dumbledore moving it to Hogwarts.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I posted all that because, it's clear that Severus is doing exactly what Dumbledore told him. And it's interesting to look back and see that Severus is questioning Quirrells loyalty.

So it does suggest he knows that Quirrell has changed and is different from how he was when he was teaching muggle studies.

Yes, I never said that Snape didn't have issues with Quirrell later in the book -- but the fact remains that they seemed friendly enough at dinner the first night of school.

Sometime later -- as you point out, it's after the first potions class, so it may be as soon as the 2nd week of school -- Dumbles tells Snape to keep an eye on Quirrell.

So now we know that Dumbles thinks something is up with Q, but we don't know why. Perhaps something in Q's demeanor, perhaps Dumbles is doing legilmancy on him, perhaps Snape himself picked up on something at dinner that first night and mentioned it to Dumbles.

But other than instructing Snape to keep on eye on Q, Dumbles does nothing. So whether he expected something to happen to Q while he was on sabbatical, or he suspects that something did indeed happen, Dumbles takes a laissez faire attitude and just lets things happen.

I dunno...if *I* was running a school, I'd be more concerned and would take a more "hands on" approach if one of my instructors came back from studying evil stuff and was now acting mighty peculiar.

[oryx_leucoryx]

So now we know that Dumbles thinks something is up with Q, but we don't know why. Perhaps something in Q's demeanor, perhaps Dumbles is doing legilmancy on him, perhaps Snape himself picked up on something at dinner that first night and mentioned it to Dumbles.

Or perhaps his 'sources' told him Tom was no longer in Albania. I wish I knew what those sources were, and since when he had them.

But other than instructing Snape to keep on eye on Q, Dumbles does nothing.

Oh, he showed up to Harry's second Quidditch game, that scared Quirrell from attacking Harry.

And we know he returned Harry the invisibility cloak that Harry left on the Astronomy Tower the night the kids shipped Norbert off. Also we know Quirrell gave Hagrid the dragon's egg in Aberforth's pub (in exchange for Fluffy's secret). So I think Albus knew Quirrell found out how to get past Fluffy around Easter, yet he went to London when he received Quirrell's fake summons. I think it all screams that he wanted Quirrell in the dungeon.