death to capslock

Long-established Potter fandom term. Takes its name from Marcus Flint who was stated as being a 7th year in one of the early books, and yet was still at school at least one book later.

When asked in an interview as to how that came about, she brushed it off by saying he must have had to repeat the year.

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Actually, there is a certain mindset, largely associated with the working classes (although I suspect not confined to them) which seems to regard it almost as a point of honor to live up to the very last penny of their income without ever tipping over into debt.

One can manage a fairly comfortable lifestyle thereby, but one major emergency and it's bad news, because there is never anything saved in reserve.

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Which makes absolutely no sense if you check it against the international price of gold. How much does it cost to buy a Kugerand? (Which is one Troy ounce.)

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stephanie-draws.livejournal.com

Hmm, interesting catch re James' and Lily's headships never being reiterated to show how wonderful and special they were ("special" among about 40 students, before the next batch came a year later) after Hagrid's initial blurb.

But I do think it was an oversight by JKR. It's totally in character. From her view about the Potters and her astonishment whenever someone questions actions of her Gryffindor "heroes" (especially those she consistently portrayed as ~villains~) it makes perfect sense to have them be head boy and girl. And only to her, in James' case.... Never mind, that he must have been, from the ~official~ punishment records alone she created, one of the very worst delinquents at school!

But the Potters senior were surely among AD's Gryffindor chums and political allies (though likely not Order-members: they were elderly and AD never played with people close to his own age and level of influence, even the members Harry views as old are barely more than half his age) in addition to being established and monied. Easy enough to indulge the spawn everyone knew they spoiled from a position of absolute authority and with favoritism a beloved Hogwarts and WW staple. Hell, AD might have done it even if he personally didn't like the boy, as long as he was Gryffindor!

Re Lily's prefect-status: I think of her as one, despite lack of further evidence. It makes sense with only 4 - 6 girls in the run anyway. She was apparently a good student, feisty and self-righteous - perfect prefect material in Gryffindor-canon. And Slughorn with his massive crush on her would have probably CAMPAIGNED just to get her appointed if Minerva showed the slightest hesitation to nominate her ^_^

The lack of mentioned prefect badge could be easily explained, even without using Harry's challenged observational skill. Students are required to have at minimum 3 different sets of normal school robes: it must happen frequently that someone still has the badge pinned to one of the robes not worn. And it's not as if, in a school as small as Hogwarts, students wouldn't know just who the 22-24 prefects are - if only to avoid them at convenient times ^_^ At least the few who actually do the job....

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urbanman1984.livejournal.com

I think the Best Revenge premise, that the Potters expended nearly everything in the magical war makes sense. It would also explain why James was made head boy when Lily was head girl. Dumblesnore probably manipulated them into becoming an item so that James would have more of an incentive to be in the Order (being the spouse of a muggle born whom the Death Eaters hated) and this also fits with Sirius getting away with trying to kill Snape - Dumblesnore would have been currying favour with James in order to eventually get him in the Order and ready to expend everything he had.

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urbanman1984.livejournal.com

Around £930 so either a galleon is made of a metal as adulterated as the Ankh Morpork dollar or it's just another "oh dear Maths" moment.

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It makes a *vast* difference to be writing a fic that you *know* from the get-go is going to be read by a primarily adult audience and subjected to adult scrutiny -- as every fanfic ultimately is -- opposed to one that the author knows is going to be deliberately marketed to an audience which will purchase the book to give to their children and may never even glance at it themselves. With the publishers' marketing department trumpeting to the skies that the book is *for children* all the while. Rowling seems to have used the difference as an excuse for lazy scene-setting.

The point of the Potter's vault of gold was to underscore the classic Cinderlad of the opening of the story. The child with nothing, living on the grudging charity of his nasty relatives turns out to have a vault of gold to supply all of his worldly needs. It also eliminates any point in the later part of the series where something might need to be dealt with, but can't because there is no money. But the vault of gold is not a major element of the *story*. It's just another of her "use once and dispense with" bits of scene-dressing. Once we get the punch line, we scarcely ever hear of it again. Nor should we. The story isn't about Harry's fortune.

Tucked away in the official site are statements which strongly indicate that James supported himself, Lily, Remus, and even Sirius during the years that they were Order members, and that none of them had outside employment. They were "full time fighters" of the Order. Never mind that Rowling has never given us a plausible reason for why Albus should even have an Order to duplicate the efforts of the Ministry, except to stand in symetrical opposition to Tom's Death Eaters. And given that they were fighting a shadow enemy who was always the one in charge of choosing the ground, I don't see what was so "full time" about it, either.

But Arsinoe de Blasenville extrapolated what really was at least a plausible explanation for what happened to the Potter fortune -- assuming that it was ever as large as fanon makes it. Rather a lot of the readers/reviewers of the fic waxed wroth over it though.

But in canon Harry has never been stated as having any more money than would get him comfortably through school. And, after all, up until Tom used his blood to resurect himself, Albus undoubtedly supposed that that would be all the boy would ever need.

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oryx_leucoryx

I thought we are talking about what Hagrid was thinking when he talked about DEs in 1991. Recruitment after his return isn't relevant. However even after springing out the Azkaban prisoners and recruiting Draco and Stan Shunpike (and maybe others) Tom only managed to get about 35-45 people for the 7P battle (we know 4 chased Harry and Hagrid, 5 chased Hermione and Kingsley; there may have been a larger group after Moody and Mundungus because they were Tom's initial best guess as to the pair with the real Harry, but even then, after Moody was killed only 2 DEs from there went to help the fight against Harry and Hagrid, so even if we stretch the numbers and say 10-15 went after Moody, 5 teams of 5 went after the others and a team of 4 after Hagrid it's still in my range). We can add Lucius who must have stayed home, Peter who was guarding Ollivander and maybe a handful at the Ministry - someone to monitor the floo network, just in case, and someone to monitor Harry's Trace. So around 50 total (or less if fewer people went after Moody).

Now go back to the graveyard - subtract 10 Azkaban prisoners and 2 known recruits, subtract Severus who wasn't there, but add Gibbons who died in HBP - we are at under 40 standing in the circle. There are gaps for the missing and dead, but Harry can tell the difference between a gap for one person and a gap for two, so at least some of them are standing next to each other. Play with those arrangements.

If there was major recruitment in the second war it was after the Ministry fell - I suppose some people jumped on the bandwagon or wanted to ensure the safety of their families.

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stephanie-draws.livejournal.com

Yeah, the plot-device and cool children's dream (A mountain of money, all for himself! And no one to tell him how to spend it! Awesome! Harry's sooo lucky!) promptly forgotten later seems the most likely explanation. However, if we take Rowling be her word:

Not sure about Sirius needing support - unlike the female rebel version among his relatives (interesting that it's just the banned men who inherit fortunes from sympathetic relatives, isn't it?) he had Uncle Alphard conveniently jump in. It might not have been enough to live in luxury for the rest of his natural life but I doubt Sirius had James paying once he had "his" own money.

And for the last year or so both James and Sirius believed Remus the traitor. They weren't shy about voicing their suspicions. Remus suspected Sirius in turn, but we all know who made the decisions among the Marauders and who was their meek pet. Would James have continued to finance Remus under that circumstances?

The few dozen at most Order-people can't have used much money, most of them professionals earning income. And it's not as if the Order had the need to buy weapons or other expensive war equipment. What have we ever seen expended or heard about that could have cost big sums of money in Dumbledore's little magical war with Tom? Nothing, really. Aside from a possible safe-house or two: but those seem all of the inherited kind, already in someones possession and ready to be used. Not even renovating Grimauld was shown as a financial drain: they did everything on their own, using magic.

If James and Lily wouldn't have needed to work but their son would have to, despite the family-fortune only 4-5 years at the most in the hands of the J+L Potter, they must have blown a lot of money in an incredibly short time!

What I find at least as likely as financed war-efforts is that James - spoiled and never having had to think about money - freshly orphaned either last year at Hogwarts or not long after, and Lily - as much as a social climber as her sister apparently and certainly not used to managing anything other than pocket money - spent the seemingly endless resource left and right.
Barely out of school, never worked nor planning to (OotP never seemed a full-time-job for ANY member we ever heard about, so there's little reason not to choose a profession solely for the Orders sake) and a fortune all to themselves, no older adults in sight: a boy who had no idea about its value since it had been always there in abundance and a girl from the lower middle class suddenly having a LOT, practically a "marrying the prince"-dream coming true.... I really can't see either of them being remotely frugal with their finances, carefully assessing them or setting themselves limits.

Even if it had not been the fanon!fabulous!fortune but a more reasonable sum: with the situation JKR presents, Lily and James must have squandered a good part of the inheritance astonishingly quick. Though I'm sure she would be shocked if one asked her about the implications of her writing.

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Here's a question, though. How much does Rowling view being a prefect or head boy or head girl as a good thing to be? Tom was an evil psychopath. Percy was a sycophantic toady (in Rowling's eyes). With a few exceptions, most of the characters who officially have power are undeserving of that power. They are either weak or evil. Ambition is not a positive trait in her world. Her heroes are nearly all renegades. They work outside of the law.

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borg-princess.livejournal.com

Ohhh, that makes sense, thanks!

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borg-princess.livejournal.com

Gosh, in all my time here, this the first time I've seen it used. Unless I was just blind to the other times. O.o

Ohhh, typical Rowling. Of course the dumb Slytherin repeated a year. *eyeroll*

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I thought we are talking about what Hagrid was thinking when he talked about DEs in 1991. Recruitment after his return isn't relevant.

True. But you then proceed to discuss the number of DEs in Harry's era. So, was there anything limiting or addressing the numbers back in the 'first' Voldemort 'war'?

Tom only managed to get about 35-45 people for the 7P battle ... Lucius who must have stayed home ...

Couldn't other DEs have stayed home? It's not as if we're told that Riddle was ordering every single DE to Privet Drive, right? It's just your assumption that most of the minions were assembled that night?

... we are at under 40 standing in the circle.

How do you know that? I've just skimmed through the graveyard chapters and couldn't seen anything that clearly gave an upper limit. A space for six missing DEs, a gap for two, etc, but no upper bound.

Later on we have this:

"And the Death Eaters? They returned?"

"Yes," said Harry. "Loads of them . . ."

I don't know if forty is 'loads'. Certainly 'loads' would support a higher figure.

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I always thought Umbridge was a much more effective villain anyhow.

That's because we actually see her for more than five minutes!!

Plus she's not the complete idiot whom Riddle turns out to be in the final book.

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Perhaps her inconsistency about the size of the Potter fortune are due to her having ambiguous feelings about her own wealth. She started off as middle class and believing that being ridiculously wealthy is a "bad" thing, and then she became ridiculously wealthy herself, so she has conflicting feelings about whether or not it's good to be so rich that you don't have to work.

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oryx_leucoryx

Couldn't other DEs have stayed home?

If Tom was desperate enough to rely on Stan Shunpike then any able-bodied and wanded DE was there.

How do you know that?

Based on the number at the time of the 7P battle, adding and subtracting as I explained.

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At the beginning of the duel in the graveyard...

“Expelliarmus”… and what use would it be to deprive Voldemort of his wand, even if he could, when he was surrounded by Death Eaters, outnumbered by at least thirty to one?

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Based on the number at the time of the 7P battle -

Okay, so all based on the numbers of the 7P battle ... and your assumption that every DE was there.

If Tom was desperate enough to rely on Stan Shunpike then any able-bodied and wanded DE was there.

That's a wobbly inference that falls far short of what would be required for a rigorous proof. For example, if Stan was Imperiused - do we know for sure if he was or not? - then it would have the calibre of the wizard who was controlling Stan which determined how useful he was in the battle. Secondly, maybe Stan volunteered, eager to prove himself. Third, maybe Voldemort ordered a certain number of DEs to attend, first priority given to any DE who had had *any* experience or interaction with Harry Potter.

(I'm forgetting if the 'seven Potters' thing was known to the Voldemort beforehand, but even if not it would have been a reasonable criterion in deciding who would attend.)

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Well, you've got to do *something*, otherwise it's a case of just stand there and be killed, and no hero/Gryffindor would make that decision.

So, yeah, as a priority, disarming the wizard who's trying to kill you there and then makes a lot of sense!

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'First things first', in other words. :-)

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lol, sorry, my point was that we get a sense here of how many death eaters were present at the graveyard. There were a little more than thirty of them there.

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