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deathtocapslock* And in case there was any lingering doubt as to whether OOTP was too padded, here’s an entire chapter where the most noteworthy thing that happens is Harry getting a bit of careers advice. Oh joy.
* Snape cancelling the Occlumency lessons isn’t (just) because he’s angry at Harry for seeing SWM. Harry’s behaviour also represented a security risk – Snape probably put all his memories showing that he was a double agent in there, and he couldn’t run the risk that Harry would look in the Pensieve again, see some of them, and then get mind-read by Voldemort and reveal Severus’ true allegiance in that way.
* Hermione’s usually very trusting of teachers, but now she’s all “I don’t think Snape should stop until you’re absolutely sure you can control them!” presumably because the plot needs Harry to feel guilty now.
* I’m glad that Harry still has enough empathy to feel horrified at the Marauders’ behaviour, although it’s a pity this never really went anywhere.
* “Harry could not imagine Fred and George dangling someone upside-down for the fun of it... not unless they really loathed them... perhaps Malfoy, or somebody who really deserved it...” Erm, Harry, has it perhaps occurred to you that the Marauders did “really loathe” Snape, and that, from the point of view of a disinterested outsider, the Twins’ behaviour might seem little better than what you saw James and Sirius doing?
* “‘I wish I could talk to Sirius,’ Harry muttered. ‘But I know I can’t.’” Yeah, Harry, I mean it’s not like Sirius gave you a present specifically for use if you wanted to contact him. Such a pity, that…
* Muggle relations jobs don’t need many OWLs, because wizards don’t really care much about interacting with the other 99% of the world’s population.
* Also, “much more important is your enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun!” sounds like the sort of thing you’d say to somebody working with children or animals rather than adults.
* Plus, you don’t really need “enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun”, just skill at doing memory charms. That seems to be the main method of wizard-muggle interaction, after all.
* Messing up people’s revision time is “the very last thing” Fred and George want to do. Apparently giving somebody boils doesn’t count as messing up their revision, then.
* I doubt that Sirius’ knife open literally any door. If it’s bewitched to resist Alohomora, it could probably resist the knife as well.
* Being given a zero for his potion isn’t that bad a punishment, actually. It’s not like it’s going to contribute towards his OWL score, so he hasn’t really missed out on anything except feedback and possibly the pride of being given a good mark. He certainly hasn’t missed out on enough to justify him being unable to talk to Hermione.
* “[Being an Auror is] a difficult career path, Potter, they only take the best.” Or people who’ve managed, by a series of incredibly lucky coincidences, to beat the most incompetent Dark Lord ever.
* So, the Aurors require good marks and passing a series of aptitude tests. Let’s see, Harry consistently copies off Hermione when doing his schoolwork, charges into potentially dangerous situations without thinking or calling for backup, and seems content to trust whatever he’s told provided it comes from people he likes, whilst refusing to entertain any notion that his personal enemies might be right. Can anybody really see him fulfilling the criteria for being an Auror, let alone rising to become their head whilst still in his twenties? Seems to me like he’ll spend the rest of his career playing off his Chosen One status to get himself promoted to positions well beyond his actual competence.
* “‘I was just wondering whether Mr. Potter has quite the temperament for an Auror?’ said Professor Umbridge sweetly.” Once again, the bad guys’ assessment of the heroes’ qualities and actions is correct, although probably for the wrong reason (cf. Lucius Malfoy).
* We can tell that Umbridge’s note represents trouble because the parchment it’s written on is pink, the evil colour.
* I sort of pity Harry here. He’s so obviously just the pawn for Umbridge and McGonagall’s little power struggle. Although it makes a change from being obviously just the pawn for Dumbledore and Fudge’s power struggle, I suppose.
* Also, getting into a shouting match in front of your pupils is very undignified and unprofessional behaviour. Minerva really ought to have known better than to do so.
* DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.
* So Harry’s sitting around moping and thinking of the knife which Sirius gave him and which he plans to use so he can talk to Sirius. Somehow, he doesn’t think of the mysterious present which Sirius gave him specifically so they can talk to each other if Harry has any problems.
* Ron keeps saying that Harry should make his own decision. This is quite a consistent view for him to adopt, but I’m not entirely sure what to make of it – sometimes (as with the House Elves) this seems like principled support for not imposing your ideas of what’s best on people, other times (like now) it seems like he’s just too cowardly to express an opinion and risk upsetting anyone.
* Snape was “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts”, whereas James wasn’t. So, how exactly do the Dark Arts differ from normal magic? Is it that they can’t be used for good purposes (as opposed to normal magic, which can be used for both good and bad)? But then, why should using Dark Magic be considered any worse than using normal magic to attack somebody?
* James was “everything Snape wanted to be” – so awesome, in other words, that even scenes where he bullies people with no provocation indicate just how awesome he is.
* Funny, from the way Sirius and Lupin talk about SWM, you’d think they were just partaking in some high-spirited schoolboy antics, rather than a rather serious piece of abuse.
* James was “a good person”, despite acting like a bad one. Seems like an example of the pseudo-Calvinist outlook of these books: if you’re good you’re good, no matter what your actual behaviour is like.
* Are we meant to be thinking badly of Filch for wanting to whip the twins? Because whipping somebody doesn’t seem particularly bad for a society with such a cavalier attitude to physical danger (even McGonagall gives eleven-year-olds detention in the Forbidden Forest, which has the potential to turn far nastier than a spot of light corporal punishment would).
* Besides, it’s not like regular punishments seem to work particularly well on Fred and George. I suppose a bit of corporal punishment might be worth a try.
* I’m surprised Umbridge or the IS don’t do more to stop Fred and George from escaping. Like Stunning them, or conjuring a brick wall in mid-air to block their path.
* Snape cancelling the Occlumency lessons isn’t (just) because he’s angry at Harry for seeing SWM. Harry’s behaviour also represented a security risk – Snape probably put all his memories showing that he was a double agent in there, and he couldn’t run the risk that Harry would look in the Pensieve again, see some of them, and then get mind-read by Voldemort and reveal Severus’ true allegiance in that way.
* Hermione’s usually very trusting of teachers, but now she’s all “I don’t think Snape should stop until you’re absolutely sure you can control them!” presumably because the plot needs Harry to feel guilty now.
* I’m glad that Harry still has enough empathy to feel horrified at the Marauders’ behaviour, although it’s a pity this never really went anywhere.
* “Harry could not imagine Fred and George dangling someone upside-down for the fun of it... not unless they really loathed them... perhaps Malfoy, or somebody who really deserved it...” Erm, Harry, has it perhaps occurred to you that the Marauders did “really loathe” Snape, and that, from the point of view of a disinterested outsider, the Twins’ behaviour might seem little better than what you saw James and Sirius doing?
* “‘I wish I could talk to Sirius,’ Harry muttered. ‘But I know I can’t.’” Yeah, Harry, I mean it’s not like Sirius gave you a present specifically for use if you wanted to contact him. Such a pity, that…
* Muggle relations jobs don’t need many OWLs, because wizards don’t really care much about interacting with the other 99% of the world’s population.
* Also, “much more important is your enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun!” sounds like the sort of thing you’d say to somebody working with children or animals rather than adults.
* Plus, you don’t really need “enthusiasm, patience and a good sense of fun”, just skill at doing memory charms. That seems to be the main method of wizard-muggle interaction, after all.
* Messing up people’s revision time is “the very last thing” Fred and George want to do. Apparently giving somebody boils doesn’t count as messing up their revision, then.
* I doubt that Sirius’ knife open literally any door. If it’s bewitched to resist Alohomora, it could probably resist the knife as well.
* Being given a zero for his potion isn’t that bad a punishment, actually. It’s not like it’s going to contribute towards his OWL score, so he hasn’t really missed out on anything except feedback and possibly the pride of being given a good mark. He certainly hasn’t missed out on enough to justify him being unable to talk to Hermione.
* “[Being an Auror is] a difficult career path, Potter, they only take the best.” Or people who’ve managed, by a series of incredibly lucky coincidences, to beat the most incompetent Dark Lord ever.
* So, the Aurors require good marks and passing a series of aptitude tests. Let’s see, Harry consistently copies off Hermione when doing his schoolwork, charges into potentially dangerous situations without thinking or calling for backup, and seems content to trust whatever he’s told provided it comes from people he likes, whilst refusing to entertain any notion that his personal enemies might be right. Can anybody really see him fulfilling the criteria for being an Auror, let alone rising to become their head whilst still in his twenties? Seems to me like he’ll spend the rest of his career playing off his Chosen One status to get himself promoted to positions well beyond his actual competence.
* “‘I was just wondering whether Mr. Potter has quite the temperament for an Auror?’ said Professor Umbridge sweetly.” Once again, the bad guys’ assessment of the heroes’ qualities and actions is correct, although probably for the wrong reason (cf. Lucius Malfoy).
* We can tell that Umbridge’s note represents trouble because the parchment it’s written on is pink, the evil colour.
* I sort of pity Harry here. He’s so obviously just the pawn for Umbridge and McGonagall’s little power struggle. Although it makes a change from being obviously just the pawn for Dumbledore and Fudge’s power struggle, I suppose.
* Also, getting into a shouting match in front of your pupils is very undignified and unprofessional behaviour. Minerva really ought to have known better than to do so.
* DADA today is centred around “Chapter Thirty-Four: Non-Retaliation and Negotiation”. Because only evil people would prefer negotiations to fighting. I’ve probably said this before, but for a woman who self-consciously borrows so much Messianic imagery for her hero, JK Rowling seems remarkably hostile towards the whole “turn the other cheek” concept.
* So Harry’s sitting around moping and thinking of the knife which Sirius gave him and which he plans to use so he can talk to Sirius. Somehow, he doesn’t think of the mysterious present which Sirius gave him specifically so they can talk to each other if Harry has any problems.
* Ron keeps saying that Harry should make his own decision. This is quite a consistent view for him to adopt, but I’m not entirely sure what to make of it – sometimes (as with the House Elves) this seems like principled support for not imposing your ideas of what’s best on people, other times (like now) it seems like he’s just too cowardly to express an opinion and risk upsetting anyone.
* Snape was “up to his eyes in the Dark Arts”, whereas James wasn’t. So, how exactly do the Dark Arts differ from normal magic? Is it that they can’t be used for good purposes (as opposed to normal magic, which can be used for both good and bad)? But then, why should using Dark Magic be considered any worse than using normal magic to attack somebody?
* James was “everything Snape wanted to be” – so awesome, in other words, that even scenes where he bullies people with no provocation indicate just how awesome he is.
* Funny, from the way Sirius and Lupin talk about SWM, you’d think they were just partaking in some high-spirited schoolboy antics, rather than a rather serious piece of abuse.
* James was “a good person”, despite acting like a bad one. Seems like an example of the pseudo-Calvinist outlook of these books: if you’re good you’re good, no matter what your actual behaviour is like.
* Are we meant to be thinking badly of Filch for wanting to whip the twins? Because whipping somebody doesn’t seem particularly bad for a society with such a cavalier attitude to physical danger (even McGonagall gives eleven-year-olds detention in the Forbidden Forest, which has the potential to turn far nastier than a spot of light corporal punishment would).
* Besides, it’s not like regular punishments seem to work particularly well on Fred and George. I suppose a bit of corporal punishment might be worth a try.
* I’m surprised Umbridge or the IS don’t do more to stop Fred and George from escaping. Like Stunning them, or conjuring a brick wall in mid-air to block their path.
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no subject
Date: 2011-10-28 05:40 pm (UTC)I agree about the Lily/Narcissa comparison.
I think Draco was born in June, so I almost wonder being that it was so close to when Harry was born..wouldn't the Malfoys would have been suspect in some way due to her being with child? I'm sure Lucius had to explain that the baby was going to be born in June...
I doubt Voldemort shared anything about the prophecy with anyone who didn't know already (ie Severus) until after Harry's escape from the graveyard (when he thought the missing bit of the prophecy might provide explanations).
His actions show he only chose whom to kill after July 1980 ended and he could know who was actually born.
I think Narcissa saw the writing on the wall when Voldie and the DE showed up at her house killing people and locking people up in their basement.
Ollivander was placed in the basement in the summer of 1996, within weeks from her visit at Severus' home, when she got him to make the Unbreakable Vow. I'm wondering when Voldemort moved in with the Malfoys. Maybe around the time of Lucius' arrest? Narcissa was Voldemort's hostage in her own house. And I'm sure she knew her family was in danger of being killed by the day Voldemort gave Draco his assignment. I don't know how much she hoped to gain by having Severus' help - perhaps she already knew she was merely buying them time, because after Dumbles would be killed Voldie would be making further demands of them using the same threat (why change a winning tactic?).
no subject
Date: 2011-10-29 12:30 am (UTC)It's quite possible he didn't tell Lucius but then again it's possible Severus might have. So this is just speculation on my part since we don't have a ton of facts on this info to tell us exactly, then again I'm trying to remember how people knew Voldemort was going to make a choice between Neville and Harry? As in How Dumbledore found out, am under the assumption that Severus told Dumbledore Voldie had the options, one might assume that Severus could have or might have warned Lucius of the danger to Narcissa and her baby.
I'm making the assumption here that Voldie was keeping an eye on the pregnant women or in passing comment he would have heard or known Narcissa was Pregnant. There is no reason for him to tell Lucius why he's asking a question about Narcissa's due date. I'd assume Narcissa being pregnant and the birth of Draco being so close to July would have at least put them on the potentials list. Even if Voldie didn't tell Lucius, I'm sure he might have asked when the baby was due.
His actions show he only chose whom to kill after July 1980 ended and he could know who was actually born.
Unless it was made after draco's birthday I'm gonna make the wild assumption that Voldemort knew Narcissa was pregnant. So unless the magical people have more accurate birth dating one might think he was at the very least curious about the due date. Thats kinda what I'm getting at, how he asked, or why or how the conversation went or how he found out isn't quite as important as my common sense tells me that Voldemort would have at least asked when Narcissa was due. And again this is assuming that the prophecy was made before Draco was born.
I don't know how much she hoped to gain by having Severus' help - perhaps she already knew she was merely buying them time, because after Dumbles would be killed Voldie would be making further demands of them using the same threat (why change a winning tactic?).</>
Maybe being that Severus was an 'old friend' to Lucius, Narcissa knew to trust Severus because he had already proved himself to be a reliable friend to Lucius. Maybe in the first war Severus helped Lucius and Narcissa then. I can't say for sure, but her going to Severus seems to suggest she trusted him enough to believe he would not rat her out to Voldemort. I sort of feel like Lucius told her to trust Severus. Because she didn't say, she and Severus were such good friends. She used Lucius as the connection to Severus, saying they were 'old friends' - making me feel like Lucius might have told her to trust Severus before she trusted any other Death Eater, etc.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-29 01:45 am (UTC)People didn't know. Albus himself knew the wording of the prophecy, so in retrospect he could work out that the prophecy could theoretically apply to both Harry and Neville, but there is no mention in canon that Voldemort ever considered anyone but Harry. (He may have, but by the time Severus defected the choice was made, and there is no evidence for Voldemort targeting any other child specifically. The DEs did kill at least two other families of Order members - the McKinnons and the Boneses, but there is no indication it had anything to do with the prophecy.)
Note that in HBP Horace invites Neville to the proto-Slug Club on the train because he was one of the kids who fought at the Ministry (and his parents were once famous Aurors), but there is no indication he thought Neville was involved in any way with the rumored prophecy itself.
Whether Tom knew or didn't know that Narcissa was pregnant is besides the point unless Lucius and Narcissa were in the habit of defying him from back then.
As for if wizards have better ways of predicting births - you mean witches never go into preterm labor as a result of physical or emotional adverse events? Also consider that labor itself can be short or long. A pregnancy that reaches term in late July can easily result in a birth in early August.
I agree Narcissa trusted Severus. What I am wondering is if she realistically expected the assistance to be a one-off thing that would be over once the task is done or if she already realized Voldemort had the three of them cornered for as long as he was around.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-29 02:12 pm (UTC)It would depend on what Voldemort deemed defiance. As an example he could deem Lucius' hesitation on giving over his wand in DH a defiance. If he knew about Narcissa going to Severus in HBP that would clearly be a defiance, hell thats still defiance even if he doesn't know about it.
Obviously these are examples are after the fact but does the defiance have to be to your face or can it be hinted at or can it just be there. All of it also depends on when Voldemort got the prophecy I guess and/or how pregnant all these women were. Once he got the prophecy I'm assuming he'd be intent on having his DE find out what magical women were pregnant - even if they had not defied him 3 times because between then and the birth defiance could raise it's ugly head.
And I thought the way it was implied that Neville and Harry were the two people Voldemort was choosing between. So if the Longbottoms were on the list, would they have been in hiding like Lily/James because if I remember rightly weren't Lily and James in hiding even before Harry was born? Sorry maybe I'm mistaken on that but I got the impression for some reason that they were already in hiding.
And I'm assuming as well that Lily/James knew about the prophecy and possibly Nevilles Parents were told why they might be in danger. Thus along with Voldemort, Severus and Albus you've got 4 other people who potentially know about the prophecy thus 7 which = people. I wasn't thinking general everyone knew about the prophecy...but it seemed easier to say people that write, Albus, Voldemort, Severus, Lily, James, Alice and Frank and then add into that Harry and Then add into that people at the Ministry could either guess or know of it's existance being that that prophecy sphere was in the ministry.
As for if wizards have better ways of predicting births - you mean witches never go into preterm labor as a result of physical or emotional adverse events? Also consider that labor itself can be short or long. A pregnancy that reaches term in late July can easily result in a birth in early August.
Er...no, I mean a doctor call tell you when you're supposed to have a baby but that doesn't mean he's right. So even if Narcissa believed she was having her baby in June...it could have easily been July when she gave birth. Doctors get it wrong sometimes when they tell you your due date, is what I mean. I was supposed to be born in Oct, the doctor told my mother I would be born in October but I wasn't born till November, not a couple of days, not like Oct30 - Nov 3 - I was born a full 3 weeks later than the doctors said I would be born, etc. So what I mean is unless magical people have some sorta magic way to predict a baby's due date thats super accurate then I'm suggesting that Draco could have been born at the end of July instead of June.
Of course I could clearly be making Voldemort a lot more of a 'thinking' individual than he actually is. So maybe he didn't give a rats ass that Narcissa was pregnant and he never even gave her a second thought at all. (shugs) I just assume that once he knew about the prophecy IF he heard Narcissa was pregnant I was thinking he'd ask. Congratuations, Lucius...so when is the baby due. Etc and thus they would be on the radar. Hell, he could have even tested Lucius at that point to see if he truly was loyal. And as I suggest above, what would Voldemort deem defiance, does anything count as defiance or is it just the idea of being recruited by him? I just assumed defiance would or could be as simple as not doing something Voldemort asked.
Besides its all speculation without actual canon on some of this...am just playing around with ideas really. So I have no clue on witches preterm labor physical/emotional event... I wasn't even thinking of the physical/emotional side of birth at all
.I'm just saying predictions on birth can sometimes be wrong.
no subject
Date: 2011-10-29 09:30 pm (UTC)No, I don't think Albus told anyone in the Order about it - not the Potters nor the Longbottoms. There were no rumors about a prophecy until after the DOM battle. Since when does he warn people? He does the bare minimum he needs to convince himself that as long as everyone obeys him they are more-or-less safe and never explains why. Like, you know, he has teachers accompanying students from class to class but doesn't tell anyone the monster they are threatened by is a basilisk and they should use mirrors for better safety.
Nor did Tom tell anyone who didn't already know, because he wouldn't want anyone to know he had a weakness. (More reason to assign Severus to the DADA job.)
And I thought the way it was implied that Neville and Harry were the two people Voldemort was choosing between. So if the Longbottoms were on the list, would they have been in hiding like Lily/James because if I remember rightly weren't Lily and James in hiding even before Harry was born? Sorry maybe I'm mistaken on that but I got the impression for some reason that they were already in hiding.
The only mention of Neville as potential 'chosen one' is by Albus in a private conversation with Harry, and then in Harry's thoughts. As far as anyone else knows, the Longbottoms were 'popular Aurors' (does this mean they caught some DEs or were they popular for some shallow reason?) and after the war at some point Bella tortured them to insanity because she thought they knew where Voldie (or what was left of him) went. We don't even know if they were *ever* in hiding, though it makes sense that at least Alice stopped field work when she got pregnant - just like we see Tonks doing in DH - I don't think getting hit by hexes and curses while dueling is good for the fetus.
As for the Potters, canonically we know they were in Godric's Hollow for at least the last 3 months of the war and were under Fidelius during the last week. As far as Fudge and Minerva say the reason the Potters went into hiding was because Albus' spy tipped him off that they were being targeted specifically by Voldemort. So assuming they knew the truth and were being honest, the Potters only went into hiding after Severus turned, during Harry's first winter. OTOH in various interviews Rowling said Lily went into hiding when she found she was pregnant, and that Harry's christening was hurried because the Potters were planning to go into hiding. It looks like Rowling can't decide what her story is.