Why no Harry Potter, eh?

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

So I looked at ONTD's "Ten of the most Epidemically Overrated Books," and was incensed to find that books like On the Road and The Great Gatsby made the list but the Harry Potter series didn't (though at least the Twilight series did). I mean really, Harry Potter is the epitome of an overrated book series, given that there are people seriously making the point that it's so deep and meaningful and needs to be read in AP English classes. Never mind that it's a children's book series!

Well, these were the people who said that a bunch of authors besides Rowling disliked the idea of fanfiction without bothering to consider WHY they might feel that way (specifically, that Rowling is the only one who's all that fandom savvy because she's modern in a way that the others aren't). Maybe they just think Rowling is their darling author too, and you can't say anything bad about her.

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

Why is threat still a factor for a movie made years after the series was completed?

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

If I had to guess, I'd say it was because the movies were hardly known for following canon to the letter. The movies, being visual media, had the ability to throw in subtext that wouldn't have been possible in a book, simply because they could put in background scenes, change the inflections around, etc. Not that they would ever contradict the books' canon per se, but there's still that fear. They don't like other theories surviving in any form.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Oh, goodness, several reasons.

One of the main ones is that these people - the really religious pro-OBHWF pro-canon fans - want their ships/canon to obtain in *any* media/situation. They just couldn't stand the fact that H/G failed so badly in the movies, even though they had 'won' with the books. Every movie they'd complain about the H/G canon scenes that were cut, the extra (H/Hr) scenes that were written in, the H/Hr bias of the scriptwriter (Kloves), and so on. They'd chosen their horse in the big HP race and they wanted it to win with the movies too.

Secondly, I found it really interesting how the movies acted as something of a 'lens' in looking at the books again. The wider public's automatic assumption that Harry would end up with the attractive leading lady (Hermione) was poison to the religious H/G fans who honestly just weren't able to comprehend this entirely natural trope (a trope more powerful in Hollywood-influenced movies, maybe) which flew in the face of the formation of their H/G. Haven't you met those sort of fans before? The ones who won't read any fanfics that aren't H/G or OBHWF or canon. Who never accepted any possibility that things could be other than H/G. And who are threatened by any arrangement that would be inconsistent with H/G. Sometimes the reason is because they just lurve their H/G. Other times is because they *can't comprehend* - in their conscious or maybe unconscious arrogance - how it could be any other way. When the movies showed so clearly how it could be another way ... they just didn't want to see it. And would act out the classic psychological behaviours in the ways they tried to avoid seeing it.

(Actually, I've never thought of it quite that way before. The reaction of a will-not-read-anything-but-H/G fan who goes to see the HP movies - as all good HP fans did - and discovers that it's like a H/Hr fanfic, with Emma Watson more beautiful than she should be, Bonnie Wright the antithesis of the canon Ginny and the stream of articles all extolling the H/Hr that was in the films. Interesting.)

Third there was the sheer irritation from the pro-H/Hr crowd who were getting rowdy and joyous every time a movie came out. I've often felt quite sad for the online H/G crowd ... I remember when I discovered LJ, wow, 8+ years ago, and all the LJ icons/avatars I've seen over the years, so many clever uses of Emma Watson. And all the H/G crowd had was ... Bonnie Wright and her .002% of the movie screen time. Hmmm, digressing a bit. Anyway, some of the H/G folk would get threatened, or push back, when the H/Hr people would wax enthusiastically over the exposure that H/Hr would get in every movie. So that's 'indirect' threatening, if you like; from the H/Hr fans of the H/Hr movies, one step removed from the source.

(There's been a couple of interviews where Kloves has admitted his bias, and Rowling has declared that what he saw - the potential H/Hr romance - was indeed there, which must have been poison again for the pro-H/G fans who idolise Rowling.)

I'm sure there are other reasons; it's been a couple of years, hasn't it? But I do remember analysing the posts of my favourite case study in this scenario, a normally stable person whose temperament slowly decayed over the media furore of the approaching DH1, until finally she 'snapped' (mildly) and proved unable to brook any dissension from her assertion that the H/G in the movie (was there any? :-)) was just wonderful ... and the H/Hr was initially mocked, then snarked at, and then finally - classic behaviour! - ignored. I mentioned the H/Hr and was abruptly both defriended and banned without notice. :-) Which, for this fan, was indeed 'snapping'. A beautiful example of going off the rails because of how the movie endorsed a 'ship which competed with the one she continued to try and bray about. Or how she couldn't stand how badly her beloved canon stacked up in the movies. I think 'threatened' is a reasonable description; an external object/force causing the subject to become more and more defensive, her actions atypical. Yeah, that fits. I'd seen other fans react along similar lines too; it was really interesting.

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is that it didn't have to be poisonous. If they'd just adopted the "your ship is not my ship, but we know what happened in the end, hey good game" mentality, it'd be fine. But no. They had to gloat. Turn it into a war. Bash other ships. I feel sorry for the H/G shippers who honestly never did anything like that. They had to suffer because of their jerk comrades. R/Hr, I'm a little more sensitive on. Whereas you had H/G shippers, I mostly had war with R/Hr shippers.

H/G never phased me because (proving the theory here) it was unimpressive. Literally, it didn't even hit the radar. It happened, was so minor, I never actually met a fan (Daksian doesn't count), and it left so little an impact that it was like somen noodles to me- depended on the context. I will not inform you of a few H/G Misdemeanors I committed, Brad, but I will say that the camaraderie of That comm Heron Advocate runs makes me more inclined to that side. My spectrum on that ship onlu runs from extreme disgust and disbelief to "that's nice, sweetie, yeah, mm-hmm", and 100% of it has to do with Ginny-Sue of Book 7 not getting into trouble when she does something mean or rude. Hermione got into trouble and was scolded/told off/got detention every now and then, so Ginny ought to as well.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

If they'd just adopted the "your ship is not my ship, but we know what happened in the end, hey good game" mentality, it'd be fine. But no. They had to gloat. Turn it into a war. Bash other ships. I feel sorry for the H/G shippers who honestly never did anything like that.

See, that was one of the interesting things with my primary case study in this "movie threatening" phenomenon. She was always polite. Firmly stating her admiration for her pro-canon OBHWF stance but accepting/tolerating mentions of the 'other side' in her blog. Happily noting my allegiance to same without turning a hair.

But then over the months leading up to the DH1 movie her behaviour turned ugly, as I have described. Snarking at the H/Hr 'competition' (the movie scenes, not fans). Out of the blue she'd snipe at H/Hr, bring it up out of nowhere (talking to others who were 'safe' H/G brethren). Clearly she felt under attack from the H/Hr propaganda (hence my using the term 'threatened'). And then finally, without warning or announcement, a comment from me with one (to my recollection) *neutral* mention of the mere *existence* of the H/Hr scenes in the movie ("being enjoyed by others") caused her to 'crack' and turn nasty (for her).

Summarising the experience in the terms you've used here - which make it clearer still - she turned from the mature non-poisonous fan into something of a 'jerk comrade'. :-) All through the pressure of the pro-H/Hr buzz flowing through the fandom, from the movie, at the time. It was really interesting, seeing how some people tick. I learnt a couple of new psychological concepts in discussing just this one case with others. Plus it let me look at the never-ending shipping debate in new ways. If even the committed H/G fans were getting antsy over the movie 'competition' then they mustn't have been all that happy/satisfied/confident with their own 'side', right?

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

^ What Sweettalkeress said. Let's face it- more people saw the movies than read the books, simply because the movies are more accessible and passively consumable. The movies might be gateways to the books, but even so, more audience with the movies.

The movies could throw in things that would subconciously turn people to whatever it wanted. Virtually no Potter Fan will be able to read this next statement as a basic neutral value, but the truth is, when put visually, H/Hr looks like the obvious couple. People like couples that get along and look like they're friends and allies. Pam and Jim for example.

When consuming the story, a book can be put down for a few hours. A movie is all in one shot, and easily tricks the mind by forcing in more senses. People like R/Hr, but after spending three and a half hours watching them bicker, it's like spending time with a real couple. It's exhausting being around people who do nothing but fight and berate each other.

And the sad truth is that the director really cleaned up a lot of R/Hr- added in as many scenes of them making nice as he could plausibly and leaving out a good deal of their fights. I think R/Hr fans knew on some level that in that context, their relationship was not going to hold up to H/Hr. Thus the resentment. The fury. The feeling of being threatened.

Now, I don't think that real, loyal, true blue R/Hr fans acted on the feelings. I think that a real, loyal, true blue R/Hr shipper would just be like "I get to see my ship on the big screen, my love for it is independent of other ships". And they squealed with each other. But H/Hr fans squealed with each other, too. The problem comes when an insecure vocal jerk sees that squeling and it triggers their defensiveness, which makes them rage, which makes them attack.