Why no Harry Potter, eh?

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

So I looked at ONTD's "Ten of the most Epidemically Overrated Books," and was incensed to find that books like On the Road and The Great Gatsby made the list but the Harry Potter series didn't (though at least the Twilight series did). I mean really, Harry Potter is the epitome of an overrated book series, given that there are people seriously making the point that it's so deep and meaningful and needs to be read in AP English classes. Never mind that it's a children's book series!

Well, these were the people who said that a bunch of authors besides Rowling disliked the idea of fanfiction without bothering to consider WHY they might feel that way (specifically, that Rowling is the only one who's all that fandom savvy because she's modern in a way that the others aren't). Maybe they just think Rowling is their darling author too, and you can't say anything bad about her.

Comments

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

When one thinks about it, there isn't much that Hogwarts students learn besides just magic. I mean, no science, no literature, no math (other than Arithmancy, which I think is sort of mathlike), no fine arts. There's history, but since it's treated as a pointless class, it's almost as if they didn't teach it at all. They don't even learn any critical thinking skills, which almost all of the characters could seriously use. No wonder wizards are emotionally stunted, close-minded people! They haven't learned any of the things that real world adults need to function. They just rely on magic to do the work/thinking for them.

Hope that didn't sound too ranty.

[ladyzenobia.livejournal.com]

Ooh I like rants, lol :D

Yes, you're so right! Especially history! What happened with 'those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it'? If the wizards had been paying attention in history they might have prevented the second voldywar altogether. I guess I'm biased since history is my absolute favourite thing quite apart from school subjects. Harry/Rowling is certainly justified in disliking it, but wizards really ought to learn it. And maybe replace Binns with a competent teacher.

And what is Arithmancy? I never got it in the books *confused*

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I haven't really studied history formally since high school, but I always thought that it was fascinating. If history is taught right, it shouldn't just be a list of dates and names. I think that it is also a way to really understand the human condition better. Also, as weird as it sounds, I think that a lot of people forget that people in the past didn't know what the outcome of certain things would be. What happened then was usually not a forgone conclusion, as it is often portrayed in textbooks. (especially for younger students) It would probably be more exciting to students if it weren't taught in that way. That, and I know that, at least here in the United States, certain historical figures are often portrayed as being larger than life heroes rather than real people with issues just like the rest of us. I think it's much more interesting to read about flawed people than to have their defects be glossed over.

[ladyzenobia.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, a lot depends on the teacher.

I think that a lot of people forget that people in the past didn't know what the outcome of certain things would be.

Yes. And they didn't have access to the same information either and their beliefs (or the beliefs of their society as a whole anyway) weren't the same as ours are today. That's why it annoys me so when I'm called names for sticking up for Slytherin House just because Salazar didn't trust muggleborns. We don't know what the situation was like in his day. It may be that back then muggleborns were genuinely a threat. That's a big problem with what passes for history in HP. The wizarding society's viewpoint never changes in a thousand years. Even the society itself doesn't seem to have changed, but fair enough we don't really see much of the past so it's hard to judge.

That, and I know that, at least here in the United States, certain historical figures are often portrayed as being larger than life heroes rather than real people with issues just like the rest of us.

Well, we learned in middle school that Abraham Lincoln was a nice old man with a funny hat who was against slavery and nothing beyond that. Sherman, Lee, Grant, Stonewall Jackson etc weren't even mentioned. In high school they taught it more deeply but I'm in a special history class :S It looks more and more like the wizarding world's attitude towards history mirrors our own...
But of course, I'm not an American so that probably shouldn't be taken as an example :)

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

The wizarding society's viewpoint never changes in a thousand years

THIS. Maybe this is why many wizards see history as irrelevant. I mean, if you have had the exact same society since the middle ages, I guess you wouldn't see any reason to learn from the past, which was exactly like the present but with different people. That's incredibly disturbing when one thinks about it- do they keep making the same mistakes over and over because they refuse to learn from them and advance as a civilization? No wonder they hate muggles so much. Their very existence shows how backwards wizard society is.

[sunnyskywalker]

That's why Frederick Douglass is the most fun to read when it comes to Lincoln. He's all, "Yeah, he was kinda wishy-washy at first about all the slavery and racism stuff, but being a grownup was able to learn and grow and get better at stuff." (Well, he said it better.) I think being able to think things over and decide you were wrong before and resolve to do better is pretty admirable, and I think potentially more inspiring to kids than a plaster saint. You can't aspire to be a plaster saint when you grow up, but aspiring to be like a guy who tried to do better? Totally possible.

Also, one of my high school history classes did a really awesome project which drove home that point about how people then didn't know how things were going to turn out etc. We got divided up into teams of ranchers, railroad companies, Native Americans, the federal government, and farmers, and then had a debate over land use policies for the Great Plains. It really makes you realize that hey, they had options! Some of which were less likely than others for various reasons, but what actually happened wasn't the only and inevitable way. Too bad Hogwarts doesn't have a debate club; they could really use one. Imagine if they pretended it was 1688 and they debated whether or not to write up a Statute of Secrecy and just how it should work if they did. Of course it would help their background research if they had a decent history class, and were required to take Muggle Studies (which Percy recommended, but no one listens to him).

Herbology and Astronomy have the potential to teach them some math (at least geometry) and science. It might be quite different, given that they split off from the Muggle world before Linnaeus (but at least they knew about Kepler), but figuring out where Venus is going to be next March 23 or what makes plants grow and how they work could end up teaching them quite a bit. Potions too, when they do more than just following instructions. But we don't see enough of the classes to really know how any of those work. Snape does seem to teach them what various ingredients do, and they must write all those essays about something, but just how much experimentation and critical thinking they get is questionable and is possibly quite low. Herbology mostly seems to involve wrestling and re-potting plants. Who knows with astronomy. It looks like a lot of wasted opportunity. Also, they supposedly write tons of essays, but does anyone ever teach them composition skills? Even a couple of class periods per year? It's not usually something you learn by osmosis!

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Of course it would help their background research if they had a decent history class, and were required to take Muggle Studies (which Percy recommended, but no one listens to him).

It would also help if the muggle studies course wasn't so embarrassingly prejudiced either. The way that Hermione describes it makes me think of the supposedly "scientific" studies of the 19th and 20th century about why white males were clearly mentally superior to everybody else. If the WW made any sense, they would teach students to at least treat muggles with caution. After all, it isn't like wizards are necessarily bulletproof. They can be caught off guard just like anybody else. Also, with the astonishing rate of muggle technological advancement, I would think that even the most bigoted wizard would have to be getting a little nervous. How long will it be until muggles crack the secrets of magic or find a way to replicate them? More importantly, what will they do when they find this small group of people who have been leaching off them for hundreds of years? What will they do when too many people find out about them for the Ministry of Magic to keep up with all of the memory modification? I mean, there are millions of muggles and a fairly small wizarding community in comparison. There had better be a contingency plan.

[sunnyskywalker]

The series really might have worked better if she had set it in the '40s or something instead of current times. Then at least wizards would look on par with, or possibly slightly more progressive than, their Muggle neighbors.

Yeah, I wonder why there aren't massive research projects on ways to hide better at minimum? Like underground, or on an isolated island in the Pacific, or deep in the Mariana Trench or somewhere else Muggles don't get to very often. (Maybe Pigfarts on Mars is not such a bad idea. They should work on that.) You'd think this would be a major public concern.

[ladyzenobia.livejournal.com]

Imagine if they pretended it was 1688 and they debated whether or not to write up a Statute of Secrecy

Oh yes!! And maybe go back to the founders time and debate the whole muggleborn/pureblood thing. Because they're still hexing each other over it in the 1990s.

After all, it isn't like wizards are necessarily bulletproof.

I wonder if a shield charm protects you from pullets as well as magic :)

The series really might have worked better if she had set it in the '40s

Wait? Did she actually plan to do that?

As for research projects, I think the department of mysteries is a real wasted opportunity. She could have shown us wizarding scientist at work and explained how wizard science differs from the muggle one. But now it just looks like wizards haven't ever heard of science.

[sunnyskywalker]

No, but I'd heard it floated around the internets as an idea that would have ironed out a few wrinkles and liked it. I think it just didn't occur to her, or maybe she thought kids wouldn't feel it was as relevant if it weren't in modern times.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Considering the disdain that wizards have for muggle technology, I wonder if they would think it necessary to modify the shield charm for repelling bullets? I mean, what was that very dismissive reference to guns as primitive wands that muggles use to kill each other? I am probably misremembering it, but I remember thinking that it sounded rather arrogant even when I was still a fan.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I would have liked to have seen it set in the 40's as well. Although, I wonder if wizards would have done anything during the Blitz or whether they would have just shrugged and let their neighbors die because it might expose their masquerade otherwise.

Apparently I have become very cynical about the series. I just have a hard time believing that any wizard would care enough about somebody outside their insular community to help them. Am I being too hard on HP?

[oryx_leucoryx]

I wonder what Diagon Alley was like during the Blitz. (Tom Riddle spent wartime summers in the orphanage. I wonder what he thought of that?)

[sionna-raven.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't the orphanage have been evacuated during the Blitz, the children sent to country places?