Jumping Ship from the Lily's Pad

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

On Saturday night I was catching up on reading DTCL and came across a post from terri_testing about why so few people claim James and Lily as friends. (posted 8/6/12, in reply to “Lupin’s ‘Resignation’,” by danajsparks) Part of it reads: 

What did happen to those witch friends Lily had in fifth year, the ones who couldn't understand why she even talked to Severus, the ones she sat and chatted with after the DADA OWL? Did their jealousy over the Mudblood scooping the Head Girl position (and the most eligible Pureblood bachelor) separate them? Were they naturally driven apart by diverging life paths caused by Lily's extremely early settling into marriage and motherhood while her friends all pursued careers....? 

Or there's always the solution I proposed in my abusive!James fic "Liberacorpus," that James had taken the precaution of sleeping his way through all of Lily's friends, so as to alienate them from her.... 

This got me to thinking: Maybe Lily’s friends were alienated, not by her good fortune or by James, but by Lily herself. I see two possibilities, both of which reflect badly on her and which are not mutually exclusive:

1) It’s certainly possible Lily’s friends were jealous because she got to be Head Girl and caught Big Wizard on Campus James. But under normal circumstances, friends get over such things. 

At least, they would have unless Lily rubbed their faces in her triumphs. If she bragged about how lucky she was, or how her success was proof of her greatness, particularly since she was a latecomer to the wizarding world, that would alienate anyone who wasn’t a complete doormat.

Of course, there is no proof Lily did that. But this kind of behavior accords with the assertion some people, most notably marionros, have made about Lily’s being a narcissist. Narcissists love to brag about themselves anyway (think Dumbledore in King’s Cross), and a triumphant narcissist would be worse than normal.

Such boasting is also compatible with the behaviors we see from Lily that indicate she had a poor character. For example, she was somewhat contemptuous and superior towards Severus, such as when she ordered him around, dismissed his feelings and concerns, or automatically took other people’s versions of events over his. 

She also exhibited a sadistic streak by using her magic to scare and torment Petunia. This is the moral equivalent of having your friends hold somebody while you punch them, or shoving over someone in a wheelchair, then laughing when they can’t get up.

No wonder she walked off and left her “best friend” to be attacked. She was doing the same thing outside of school herself, and to her own sister, who could not fight back. Which brings me to my next point. 

2) The other possibility for why Lily’s friendships ended may impart to her schoolmates a level of perspicacity they didn’t possess, but it’s an interesting idea anyway.

Lily may have bragged to or joked with her friends about using her magic to torment Petunia. I would never want to be friends with a person who was debased enough to attack her own family for entertainment.  

Regarding Severus, while Lily’s friends were no doubt happy to see her dump the greasy Slytherin, they may not have liked the way she did it. Initially, they just would have been happy he was gone, but over time, they may have become uncomfortable with her actions.

This was a boy Lily had known for six years, since she was nine. Her friends may have known she’d told Severus they were “best friends.” She had refused to break off their friendship for years, despite pressure from her House to dump him.

Then one day, he slipped up and insulted her while under extreme stress. And that was it. She literally turned her back on him and left him while he was helpless, to be assaulted by a ruthless gang of thugs. 

Severus didn’t just apologize for insulting her. He actually groveled to her, begging her forgiveness, risking his safety in the process. (Every time I think about this scene, I hear the Temptations singing, “Ain’t Too Proud to Beg.”) Yet she refused to even accept his apology, let alone have anything to do with him again.

If Lily was a prefect, her behavior was even worse. Regardless of her feelings for the victim, it was her duty to protect someone from being assaulted, especially by a group of attackers. She failed to do the job she’d been chosen for, to live up the obligation she’d accepted. This makes her nothing but a prettier, spunkier version of Remus the Spineless because they both allowed their personal feelings to prevent them from doing their duty.

I can’t help comparing Lily and Remus as prefects with the black American soldiers who served in World War II. These men fought and died for their country, even though they had been the victims of vicious racism at home and knew they would be again once the war was over. They realized many of the people they were fighting for were disgusting bigots who didn’t consider them fully human. They usually weren’t even allowed to serve in the same units as white soldiers. Many of them were only a few years older than Lily and Remus. Yet despite all that, they put their sense of duty ahead of their personal feelings and risked their lives for all Americans, regardless of how loathsome many individuals were. That is why they are now considered groundbreaking heroes. 

Imagine having Lily as a comrade in the Order. You will go into battle with her and trust her with your life. You’ll expect her to have your back, no matter what. 

What if you say or do something wrong while under pressure? How do you know that, when you need her the most, she won’t turn her back on you, too, and leave you at the mercy of your enemies? If she could do that to someone she’d been friends with almost half her life, why wouldn’t she do it to you as well?

Would you trust someone like that in battle?

I wouldn’t. 

  

Comments

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I'm even later here, but I really can't understand why Lily is seen as a likeable character by the fanbase. The fact that she seems to both enjoy being a bully and being around other bullies makes me lose all sympathy for her. Especially her cruelty to Petunia. Petunia may not be a very nice person as an adult, but I can sure see why she would have such hatred for anything connected to her narcissistic monster of a sister.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Before I read these books, I deliberately ignored everything about them as much as possible--media reports, online fora, anything. To this day, I've never seen the movies. I waited until the entire series had been finished for almost 2 years before I read it. I did all that so I could come to the books with the most open-minded and unprejudiced attitude possible.

I started out having neutral feelings for Lily, but the more and closer I look at her, the worse she looks. I can't help that. That's just what's on the page. She and her ilk behave just as badly as the "bad" characters, such as Snape and Petunia, but we're supposed to look at the "good" characters' jerkiness and pretend it's not really jerkiness because "good" characters are doing it. Judging behavior is all purely arbitrary, based on the author's personal preferences, and the readers are supposed to mindlessly go along with that double standard just because the author says so. "Because I say so" may work with toddlers, but it shouldn't work with adults.

What's so sad about this fandom is that it does work with so many fans. We've all seen canon whores wailing, for example, "The Death Eaters are so as bad as Nazis! It says so right in the books!"

Who are you gonna believe, JKR or your lying eyes? The answer to that question is what separates the fans who are mental and emotional adults from the ones, no matter their age, who are still mental and emotional children.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

What's so sad about this fandom is that it does work with so many fans. We've all seen canon whores wailing, for example, "The Death Eaters are so as bad as Nazis! It says so right in the books!"

What bothers me more is when the people who are doing this really ought to know better. I know quite a few very intelligent people, some of whom actually have a background in literature, who nonetheless tend to believe everything JKR says, even if it directly contradicts what's actually written in the books. Of course, I can't be too hard on them, as I was kind of like that myself a few years ago. The difference is that I finally stopped ignoring the things about the series that had always bugged me a little, rather than blithely accepting them as part of JKR's perfect master plan.

[josephinestone.livejournal.com]

What's so sad about this fandom is that it does work with so many fans. We've all seen canon whores wailing, for example, "The Death Eaters are so as bad as Nazis! It says so right in the books!"

I know these is really old (I just saw your latest post and wanted to start from the beginning of your posts), but this mentality has always bothered me. Not just with Harry Potter fans, but every time I run into in when talking about the Holocaust. People talking about Nazis as though they weren't people. It just bothers me. I don't understand it. As much as it is talked about and most people still don't even know what a Nazi even was.

They forget (or just don't get?) that when you are under a dictatorship, you don't get to choose your political party anymore.

ETA: Judging behavior is all purely arbitrary, based on the author's personal preferences, and the readers are supposed to mindlessly go along with that double standard just because the author says so.

This has always bothered me, but I'm normally attacked (or just have people try to explain it all away as children's books) when I say anything about it. I do love the series, but it isn't flawless.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Preconceptions count, I suppose. Before we see Lily we spend four and a half books reading about how perfect and wonderful she is, so people are predisposed towards interpreting her actions in the most positive light possible.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Actually the only things we heard about Lily up to the point of SWM were: Hagrid telling how wonderful she and James were in PS, Albus saying she died to protect her son and we heard the dementors' inspired memory of the last few minutes of her life. Hagrid was wrong about James, why wouldn't he be wrong about Lily? Or is it because Severus said bad things about James and turned out to be right, but didn't say anything about Lily - so people still had hope for her?

(There was a bit in the POA movie from 'Remus' that inspired much of fandom's view of Lily, I think.)

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Hmm, yes, good point. I suppose it might be a combination of:

1.) We do get some less favourable information about James, even before SWM. Severus, for example, often complains about his behaviour in school, and although we're clearly meant to see Snape as mean and bitter, we at least know that some people see/saw James more negatively than Hagrid did. And again in POA, Sirius recounts his youthful escapades with James and the other Marauders; even though Sirius clearly still sees them as harmless youthful hijinx, they're actually pretty dangerous (going out with Lupin even after those near misses with Hogsmeade inhabitants? Seriously?), and point at an unattractively reckless, self-centred streak in James' personality. With Lily, the only things we hear are as you say that she was totally wonderful and laid down her life for Harry, so the portrayal of her is already more positive in the early books.

2.) It isn't really clear until "The Prince's Tale" that Snape and Lily were close friends. Her actions in SWM would be more understandable if she and Severus didn't really know each other, or if they had an antagonistic relationship like most other Gryffindors and Slytherins seem to.

3.) Snape and Petunia are both nasty people, and as we all know, people's personalities don't change at all over the course of their lifetimes, and definitely aren't affected by the way they were treated as children. Clearly therefore those two must have been equally nasty when they were kids, and therefore we ought to recognise Lily's treatment of them as the just and righteous punishment it clearly was.

[oryx_leucoryx]

With Lily, the only things we hear are as you say that she was totally wonderful and laid down her life for Harry, so the portrayal of her is already more positive in the early books.

Funny that the only character to actually provide the 'Lily was totally wonderful' aspect in canon before SWM is Hagrid, whose views we should have learned to suspect by then (see 'there's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin'). And he praises both James and Lily in one breath, never saying anything unique to distinguish their qualities.

And after SWM there was Horace, but again, we see how untrustworthy his opinion is in the very same book he is introduced.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Snape and Petunia are both nasty people...

And, Petunia had nothing but bad things to say about Harry's parents. She spoke against Lily. Since we're not supposed to like Petunia, we're actually encouraged to think of Lily as being the opposite of what Petunia says. Same with Snape's version of James.