Another Imperius question

[oryx_leucoryx]

We see instances where the Imperius is cast for immediate use, like when Barty Jr cast it in class, when he cast it on Viktor in the maze or when Tom casts it on Harry in the graveyard. We know from Harry's account that he felt no sign of the persistence of the spell (whether cast by Barty or by Tom), though Ron did exhibit such behavior for a while. On the other hand, we know of cases where people were under Imperius in the long term - Barty Jr by his father, Moody by Barty Jr, Barty Sr by either Peter or Tom. Is an Imperius spell intended for the long haul cast in a different manner than one intended only for immediate use? Do the long term spells need to be recast regularly? Does the spell fade away or does it stay 'on' until specifically released?

In OOTP we are supposed to believe that Sturgis Podmore and Broderick Bode acted on respective Imperius Curses cast some time, maybe days or even weeks previously - Lucius supposedly cast it on Sturgis during one of his meetings with Fudge, Sturgis then acted on it on some night when it was his turn to guard the Department of Mysteries. And in HBP Rosmerta remains under Draco's curse the entire year - how many chances did he have to go over to Hogsmeade to renew the spell if he was also working on the cabinet every free moment?

In DH, did Yaxley have to renew the spell on Thicknesse ever so often? How long did Travers remain under Harry's Imperius?

Which brings me back to the first war: What happened to the true Imperius victims? Most of them were not cursed by Tom himself, so I don't see a reason for the spells to suddenly end with his downfall. Either the DEs stopped renewing the spells (whether because they were caught themselves or because they wanted there to be people coming out of Imperius all at once, so they could claim to be among them) or the DEs actively ended the various Imperius spells they had cast.

Comments

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Because we do not know who exactly was a true imperius victim in the first war, we cannot say that most of them were not cursed by Tom. After all, we have no idea whether they were or not. Even so, it seems probable that since the curse on the DADA position stayed even tho' Voldy 'died', then an imperio by Voldy might have continued as well.

Even so, it is possible that some may have been imperiused for only a time and once branded continued without imperio simply because the only way out was death. That is IF he branded them.

Another possibility is that the Mulciber who was supposed to be the Imperio expert was captured sometime between Karkaroff's arrest and his naming names for a reduced sentence after Voldy's fall. It might just be that he couldn't keep the imperio's going while living with the dementors?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, by the time of the escalation of 1979 (or thereabouts) the DEs were becoming more active in general. They started doing some killing on their own rather than bringing in victims for Tom to finish off (and secretly turn into inferi). So I imagine they were also getting involved in strategically Imperiurizing people to make them commit crimes - whether to deflect responsibility, to confuse evidence or for better access to locations or people.

I don't think Imperius victims were Marked, they were just used as needed.

So: Which mode of action looks more consistent - that a long-term Imperio needs renewal (how often?) or that there was a way to cast Imperius that left the victim under the spell until explicitly released?

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

I tend to think that Imperio works a bit like hypnosis. I must admit that my evidence is not ironclad - it is based on that Jr.Minister (muggle) that was found in the vicinity of No.10 Downing, quacking like a duck, but who nevertheless kept attempting to strangle the healers at St.Mungo's.

For me, that along with several other clues lumped together in that particular week suggest a less than successful Imperio attempt to assassinate the Prime Minister - something like the theory that someone can be hypnotized to perform some function with no idea that they had been until a code word set them on their 'task'

I think that IF this is so, then it all depends upon the strength of the Imperio caster, the victim's ability to recognize the orders as foreign to his own thoughts and the skill in wording the set task(s) in such a way that the victim might believe they are his own idea.

Note that with Rosemerta, it is unlikely that Draco gave her orders for every single thing she did that year. All he had to do was either make her believe everything she did was her own idea or imperio her into 'blacking out' while doing them so she wouldn't remember having done so. Kind of like Ginny during her first year with the actions the Diary had her performing.

It would be interesting to know whether any of the REAL imperio victims of VW1 actually went right back to doing Voldy's work in VW2 - whether a subliminal suggestion made back then still worked on them 15 years later. We don't have any info on it in canon, but if so one might never need to renew the imperio as long as the suggestions made were worded correctly.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Having Imperio work like the pop version of hypnosis, with the option of post-hypnotic suggestion makes the most sense. I would guess that the trigger, which could be a phrase or some other combination of circumstances ('when you come to work on Tuesday night' or whatever), brings about the euphoric sensation. I like Elkins' analysis of the scene in GOF chapter 17, where both harry and Albus notice Crouch is looking ill - that this was because he realized he was being used as part of a plot and he was struggling against the Imperius, and losing.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Being most used to the idea of 'telepathic control' a' la' science fiction and the like I've never much liked Rowling's Imperius, as undefined as most of her magic. In this case her deliberate omission of details as to the mechanics served her well, I suppose, she could just wave her hands and use the spell whenever she wanted. Like when she needed a way for her hero to get his way out of a jam in the last book. Useful thing, that Imperius, working on Harry's first try!

In most science fiction the telepath would have to keep up a constant effort to 'control' the victim. I never really had a feel for how Rowling's long-term Curse could work. Your hypnosis comparison is a good one; I can see how that might do the trick. Good stuff!