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deathtocapslockHarry and Hermione happen to be together when the attack comes, so when Ron finds them, Hermione Apparates them to London. As usual, the boys are unprepared, but Hermione has packed everything they need: changes of clothes, Harry’s invisibility cloak, reference books, luggage--and whatever else they might need as the story goes on that Rowling didn’t think of right now.
Harry experiences emotion as GERD again as he thinks about the danger Ginny is in, and “fear bubble[s] like acid in his stomach.” Um, Harry, I know your science education ended at age eleven, but surely you’ve picked up from TV commercials for antacids that the stomach does have acid bubbling in it. Maybe you just have indigestion from all that rich food and champagne you ate and drank at the wedding reception.
As they walk down the street, Hermione is sexually harassed by some drunk men. Ron is about to defend her honor when Hermione drags them into an all-night greasy spoon. They are preparing to leave when they are attacked by two DEs, who had followed them into the restaurant and been sitting there for a while. This is a contrived scene because as soon as the DEs are defeated, Ron recognizes one and Harry the other. Harry even admits he should have recognized the blond one, Thorfinn Rowle, from the night Dumbledore died. Clearly, the DEs are doing a better job of educating their recruits on whom to watch for than the Order is. Any commander who’s not a complete dimwit should make sure hir soldiers or police officers know who the major enemies/criminals are and what they look like. Honestly, both sides in this rumble are so incompetent that I can’t help thinking the non-magical government just needs to protect the public, then stand back and let the magicals have at each other until all the dumbest ones are dead. It would greatly enhance the gene pool of the ones who are left.
The Trio tries to decide what to do about their prisoners and settles on Obliviation. They all insist they’ve never done it, despite Hermione’s weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth regarding her parents just two days ago. Apparently her memory charm on them was a little too good: Its blowback damaged her memory, too.
Or maybe it was too bad. Maybe Hermione’s telling at least part of the truth when she says she’s never done a memory charm--at least, a successful one. That is, perhaps she tried to mind-rape her parents and change their identities, but she wasn’t successful. Maybe when this high school girl with a fifth-grade science education tried to perform magical brain surgery on her parents, she failed so disastrously they ended up vegetables, and she had to kill them because she couldn’t take care of them.
Think about it: We have only her word they really are in Australia. Remember all my objections to the logistics of changing their identities and shipping them off to a foreign country? All those problems disappear if the Grangers are dead. In chapter 6, it says Hermione’s eyes “were swimming with tears” as she talked about them. This is not a girl who cries easily. The only other time I can think of her crying in the whole series is in book 1 when nobody will be her friend--that is, when she feels all alone in the world.
Hermione has been building up to this for a long time. In first year, she set Snape on fire. In second year, she committed a series of felonies that would have gotten HRH expelled and criminally prosecuted in a sane society. In third year, she knocked Snape unconscious with her friends and cared only for the fact she might get in trouble for attacking a teacher. In fourth year, she kidnapped Rita Skeeter, held her hostage, and blackmailed her. In fifth year, she tricked Umbridge into becoming the prey of the centaurs. She also tricked other students into agreeing to the Dumbledore’s Army contract without knowing what the consequences were for breaking it--and permanently disfigured another girl in revenge when the girl dared to put the well-being of her own mother before that of her schoolmates. In sixth year, she attacked her own boyfriend with birds à la Alfred Hitchcock, and in seventh year, she “jokes” about doing it again (in chapter 19). She also at least attempted to perform forcible brain surgery on her own parents and ship them off to a foreign country.
Look at that series of violent felonies. Try to forget it’s the life story of Hermione Granger, a character you thought you knew, and instead imagine it’s the case history of some anonymous teenager in a news story. Then tell me that murder is not the logical next step in the criminal career of someone with that record.
Back to the story:
Ron complains he can’t get his wand out of his jeans because the pair Hermione packed is his old pair, which is too tight. God forbid he should do his own packing--or laundry--or cooking--or any of those “girl jobs.”
This is a very strange restaurant: Apparently the waitress also does the cooking, since there’s no reference to any other employee being present.
The Trio discusses where to run to, and Hermione suggests the DEs may have found them because Harry still has the underage Trace on him. Ron insists that cannot be the case because Wizarding law doesn’t allow it to be put on adults. Um, Ron, I hate to tell you this, but the Ministry is in the control of violent terrorists who want to kill large numbers of people and take over the world. I don’t think they’re going to shrink from breaking any law, particularly if it will help them find their number one quarry, Harry Potter.
HRH (Hey, JKR’s pretending Harry’s royalty, so why not go with it?) decide to go to Grimmauld Place, even though Snape knows where it is and can get in there. Harry displays textbook Gryffindor bravado by boasting that he’d love to fight Snape. I can just imagine Snape sneering and replying, “Yes, Potter, because that worked out so well for you last time.”
They leave the restaurant after waking everybody up, thus leaving the defenseless waitress to the mercies of the muggle-hating Death Eaters. Remind me again why these are the good guys?
They enter 12GP and we have a brief recap of the furnishings in the foyer. Surely I’m not the only one who finds those stuffed elf heads really creepy and grotesque. Proving their fitness for battle with ruthless terrorists, the Trio is traumatized by Moody’s ludicrous “protections” on the house: a Tongue-Tying Curse and an apparition of Dumbledore that appears to be a giant dust bunny disguised as a decomposing corpse.
OH! COME! ON! Anybody’s who ever been to a local charity’s “haunted house” has seen scarier stuff than that! I started reading horror comic books and watching horror movies and TV shows when I was five. I was never scared by those stories because I knew they weren’t real. In my expert opinion, if JKR is writing horror, as she’s sometimes been accused of, she’s doing a damned poor job of it.
Those “protections” are idiotic for other reasons: (1) As others have pointed out, Snape can do silent magic, so tying his tongue would have no effect on his ability to cast spells. (2) If he’s as ruthless and evil as the Order thinks he is, he’s not going to be put off by a dust bunny representation of the man he killed. If anything, he’s going to laugh at the absurdity of it. Hell, I’m not a ruthless murderer, and I laughed at it.
For somebody who was supposed to be so formidable, experienced, and hung up on “constant vigilance” (a euphemism for clinical paranoia), Moody was a complete incompetent when it came to actually protecting places that needed to be protected. No wonder he resorted to torture to get captured DEs to talk. He was too ineffective to get information any other way.
As if they weren’t traumatized enough, the Three Stooges (seriously, this scene seems to have been ripped off from an old Three Stooges or Abbott and Costello short) Golden Trio then has to put up with the painting of Walburga Black shrieking racist invective at them. Harry shuts her up, but I have more to say on that subject.
I know it’s commonly accepted that Walburga was mentally ill, maybe even insane, and that’s why she acted so abominably. I don’t buy it. There is no way of being certain of her mental state without observing her behavior when she wasn’t either at home or in another place she considered safe for spewing her filth. That is, if she could behave like a perfect lady when she wanted to--say, while shopping in Diagon Alley, or at Ministry social functions--then her behavior was under her conscious control. She was therefore not mentally ill, just a vicious racist who got off on terrorizing everybody with her violent tantrums. Only if she was unable to control her behavior and conform to appropriate social norms would she qualify as mentally ill and/or incompetent. That’s why, in the various editions of the DSM, the diagnostic criteria always specify that, to qualify for a diagnosis, the aberrant behavior has to be present for an extended period and in a variety of contexts.
Harry has another Voldie-vision, and Hermione starts shrieking à la Walburga, that he has to close the mental connection, or Voldemort can plant false images in his mind. Don’t worry, Hermione. Voldemort’s much too dumb to do anything that sensible.
Harry retreats to the bathroom and lets go with the vision, seeing Draco being forced to torture Rowle with Crucio. To his credit, Harry seems to feel sorry for Draco, although not for Rowle.
However, this “terrifying” vision is undermined by more logical contradictions. Voldy snarls that Rowle called Voldy back to report he’d let Harry get away--but Hermione Obliviated Rowle, so how is that possible? And would Rowle really be so stupid as to call his Master back just to report a failure to him, knowing what kind of punishment he’d receive for his failure? I’m so tired of this nonsense, I feel like Crucioing somebody at this point.
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no subject
Date: 2013-04-20 10:09 pm (UTC)Here's the pertinent extract from my original comment, verbatim.
Just having a quick look at a couple of web sites ... on the Harry Potter Wiki entry for Hermione we have these excerpts under the 'personality' heading:
Despite this, Hermione was generally sensitive to others' emotions, and would lie when she had to ...
Hermione seems to have a great deal of compassion, evidenced by her somewhat whimsical purchase of Crookshanks simply because "No one wanted him."
Oh, and here's a 'tears' quote from that site taken from DH regarding our heroine of "a great deal of compassion":
Even before Hermione understood the priceless quality of the gift, she was moved to tears by Dumbledore's great act of friendship.
And from Wikipedia:
Hermione has an extremely compassionate side to her personality and is quick to help others, especially those who are defenceless, such as Neville Longbottom, first-years, House-Elves, fellow Muggle-borns, half-giants like Hagrid, and werewolves like Lupin. It was revealed by Rowling after the publication of the final book that Hermione's career in the Ministry was to fight for the rights of the oppressed (such as House-elves or Muggle-borns).
I've put in bold the parts that attribute the canon facts which substantiate the opinions, to make it easier for you this second time.
I guess the third section is a bit indirect, fair enough, but even my poor HP memory could work out the associations from the hints supplied. Let's see ... Neville Longbottom - okay, from the very start, on the train, and then she helps him with his homework. House-Elves, that's easy, SPEW & Kreacher. Fellow muggle-borns ... hmmm, I don't recall when Hermione went out to bat for them specifically? I dare say somewhere in the books she mentioned them in her anger about their mistreatment, maybe as late as the concentration camps in DH? Okay Lynn, the onus would be on me to find that link/evidence. Half-giants, sure, she was angry at Skeeter for writing about Hagrid negatively in fourth year. Werewolves, that's obvious, she kept Lupin's secret in book #3.
Case closed!
no subject
Date: 2013-04-20 10:51 pm (UTC)For "moved to tears by Dumbledore's great act of friendship" thing, you/they didn't give any context, so I don't know how much of that is the book, and how much of that is interpretation. After all, with the half dozen quotes of Hermione crying from OotP that you quoted, none of them were as sympathetic as you implied (although I do have sympathy for anyone being ranted at by Harry).
The last bolded thing: that's more (less?) than indirect, that's a list of names. The evidence is the specific cases where she helped them -- specific examples that can be examined, to see whether she was actually demonstrating compassion, or what.
In any case, this is getting boring. You prefer quantity of the examples you can list over the quality of analyzing things in the text, which is the part that's interesting. Moreover, if anyone knocks down an example, you shrug it off by saying that there are plenty more examples. If knocking down an example makes no difference to your viewpoint (and I can't remember a time when it *has* made a difference), then there's no point to this debate.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-20 11:03 pm (UTC)While reading out Dumbledore's will in DH, I assumed.
The evidence is the specific cases where she helped them -- specific examples that can be examined, to see whether she was actually demonstrating compassion, or what.
Yes. Which I supplied.
So I'm ready to go through those cases, one by one, to support my argument, and prove that I am correct, and -- huh? Sorry, what are you saying --
In any case, this is getting boring. You prefer quantity of the examples you can list over the quality of analyzing things in the text, which is the part that's interesting. Moreover, if anyone knocks down an example, you shrug it off by saying that there are plenty more examples. If knocking down an example makes no difference to your viewpoint (and I can't remember a time when it *has* made a difference), then there's no point to this debate.
Oh, Lynn. Saying it's boring, waving your hands at unspecified acts of mine, believing facts to be 'knocked down' while not conceded by your opponent (how convenient for you!), et cetera. I could give you LOTS OF PROOF, Brad, butI'mnotgoingtobecauseyou'llignoreitanywaybutI'mstillrightokaybyenow. Tch.
A somewhat graceless retreat, but a retreat nonetheless. Sorry to see you go. My evidence stands. (Even if you deem it to be 'boring'. An interesting adjective for 'evidence that is against my own beliefs which I cannot deny but want to so anyway'.)
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 12:13 am (UTC)I might continue later about other instances, but my point is that the fact that anonymous wiki authors decided Hermione was compassionate or helpful in her dealings with Neville is not evidence for anything but their opinion.
(I'm not even sure what is meant by 'Dumbledore's great act of friendship' - to whom? When? That's the problem with quoting without context.)
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 02:19 am (UTC)Oh, Oryx, what other goal would there be?
Hermione was just trying to be helpful. And she, an eleven year old, didn't have the maturity (that we adults have in criticising her) to proffer that help in a subtle fashion. That's what happens when you have a heart of gold ... and you're only eleven.
To help Neville (or Ron, or Harry) she should have coached them in ways to find answers themselves.
Damn, I just *know* that Hermione does *exactly that* - refuses to give the boys the ANSWERS, to do their work for them, only to HELP/advise - but I'm not sure if it's canon or fanon. Darn.
I'd ask for help from your prodigious memory but it won't be in your own self-interest with this one to help me out. :-)
(I'm not even sure what is meant by 'Dumbledore's great act of friendship' - to whom? When? That's the problem with quoting without context.)
It's only a problem to the person who quoted it in the first place, who then has to go and find it upon being challenged. :-)
"'To Miss Hermione Jean Granger, I leave my copy of The Tales of Beedle the Bard, in the hope that she will find it entertaining and instructive.'"
Scrimgeour now pulled out of the bag a small book that looked as ancient as the copy of Secrets of the Darkest Art upstairs. Its binding was stained and peeling in places. Hermione took it from Scrimgeour without a word. She held the book in her lap and gazed at it. Harry saw that the title was in runes; he had never learned to read them. As he looked, a tear splashed onto the embossed symbols.
"Why do you think Dumbledore left you that book, Miss Granger?" asked Scrimgeour.
"He... he knew I liked books," said Hermione in a thick voice, mopping her eyes with her sleeve.
"But why that particular book?"
"I don't know. He must have thought I'd enjoy it."
"Did you ever discuss codes, or any means of passing secret messages, with Dumbledore?"
"No, I didn't," said Hermione, still wiping her eyes on her sleeve. "And if the Ministry hasn't found any hidden codes in this book in thirty-one days, I doubt that I will."
She suppressed a sob.
Poor Hermione. So sensitive she cries over her bequest from Dumbledore. Such a sensitive and empathic soul.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 05:46 am (UTC)Not if you're citing their words as evidence, it isn't. Especially if they aren't involved in this discussion. You want to use it as evidence, it's your problem.
I find it hard to believe that you don't understand that. You come across as dishonest when you say these things.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 07:02 am (UTC)You want to use it as evidence, it's your problem.
Was exactly that.
In other words, when I said this:
It's only a problem to the person who quoted it in the first place, who then has to go and find it upon being challenged. :-)
I was talking about myself. I am 'the person'. Maybe the smiley face at the end confused you, along with the third person attitude?
Anyway, we agree. Which means I'm not dishonest. Whew! :-)
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 07:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 05:55 am (UTC)Damn, I just *know* that Hermione does *exactly that* - refuses to give the boys the ANSWERS, to do their work for them, only to HELP/advise - but I'm not sure if it's canon or fanon. Darn.
Well, there is this relevant example from Order of the Phoenix, when Hermione is definitely not an eleven-year-old:
ʹYou know, we probably should try and get more homework done during the week,ʹ Harry muttered to Ron [...]
ʹYeah,ʹ said Ron, rubbing slightly bloodshot eyes and throwing his fifth spoiled bit of parchment into the fire beside them. ʹListen… shall we just ask Hermione if we can have a look at what sheʹs done?ʹ
[...]
ʹOh, give them here,ʹ she said abruptly.
ʹWhat?ʹ said Ron.
ʹGive them to me, Iʹll look through them and correct them,ʹ she said.
[...]
ʹOK, write that down,ʹ Hermione said to Ron, pushing his essay and a sheet covered in her own writing back to Ron, ʹthen add this conclusion Iʹve written for you.ʹ
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 07:04 am (UTC)But I thought these were exceptions. That in general Hermione forced the boys to do their own work. Even in your example Ron's written the essay first. Although I hate her having written the conclusion for him. Ugh.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-21 06:56 pm (UTC)When I was 11 there was a classmate who got into the habit of phoning me asking for math help. I reworded the problems, I broke them down into separate segments: The question asks what the ratio of gold to silver in the alloy was. What do you need to find the answer? (Friend answers) OK, and how would you find those things out? What do you need to know for that? etc. Hermione never does anything like this. (I wonder if Rowling realizes that's what they needed.)