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deathtocapslockWhat do we know about the Order of the Phoenix in the first war? Our main source for the membership is the photograph that Alastor Moody showed Harry. The front row has: Albus Dumbledore, Alastor Moody, Dedealus Diggle, Marlene McKinnon, Frank and Alice Longbottom, Emmeline Vance, Remus Lupin and Benjy Fenwick. Behind them are Edgar Bones, Sturgis Podmore, Caradoc Dearborn, Rubeus Hagrid, Elphias Doge and Gideon Prewett (and presumably also Fabian Prewett?). In the back are Aberforth Dumbledore, Dorcas Meadows, Sirius Black, James Potter, Peter Pettigrew and Lily Potter.
I don't really know in which order Frank and Alice were positioned because Moody refers to them as a single unit. Similarly, James and Lily's positions may have been reversed, but I assume Sirius would prefer to stand by James. While Frank and Alice, Lily and James, are mentioned explicitly, we are told about Marlene: 'That's Marlene McKinnon, she was killed two weeks after this was taken, they got her whole family.' And of Edgar Bones: 'That's Edgar Bones... brother of Amelia Bones, they got him and his family too, he was a great wizard'. While family members died with Marlene and Edgar, it appears said relatives were not in fact in the photo, and probably weren't Order members themselves. Similarly, when Moody says, 'Gideon Prewett, it took five Death Eaters to kill him and his brother Fabian', it looks like he was pointing at Gideon. Fabian may have not been in the photo, or perhaps he was standing behind Gideon, and Moody's narration never got to his position because his main purpose was to show Harry his parents.
We know at least two Order members not mentioned by Moody: Arabella Figg and Mundungus Fletcher, both mentioned by Albus in GOF as part of the 'old crowd'. It is possible Arabella was not present, as a squib she may have had difficulties arriving at Order gatherings. Or perhaps the two were also standing in the back.
How many people could have been hidden? Well, I'm pretty sure the third row was the last one, or Aberforth would have been standing even farther back behind his brother. The first row has 9 people, the second 6 (or 7, if you think Fabian is there next to Gideon), but one of them is Hagrid, who easily takes up the space of 3-4 humans. We know of 6 people in the third row. There is room for a few additional people there, which may include Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher and Fabian Prewett.
If there is anyone else there, those would be either ones who did not survive to the reforming of the Order in 1995, or people who became part of the 2nd Order. Members of the 2nd Order not mentioned so far are: Minerva McGonagall, Severus Snape, members of the Weasley family, Kingsley Shacklebolt, Nymphadora Tonks and Hestia Jones. Of these we know Severus was not part of the original Order (even when he turned he was not openly acting as Albus' agent, contributing to Sirius' confusion in POA about Severus' connection to events of 1993-4), we are told Kingsley and Tonks were new recruits (and Tonks, like Bill and Charlie, was still a child in 1981). When Albus starts gathering his forces in the hospital wing in GOF, he needs to ask Molly "...am I right in thinking that I can count on you and Arthur?", whereas he orders Sirius without questions or invitations. So I don't think the Weasleys were directly under his authority as part of the Order before. Leaving the possibilities of Minerva and Hestia. The latter is described as having pink cheeks, which fans usually take as implying a young age. Even if she was older than Tonks, she may have been too young to have been part of the first Order. But Minerva is a likely candidate. Thus in total the number of named memebers of the first Order at the time the photograph was taken is somewhere between 23 and 26.
When and under what circumstances was the photograph taken? Moody tells Harry that the McKinnon family was killed two weeks later, and according to her letter, Lily believed Peter had been mourning the McKinnons when he visited the weekend before Harry's birthday. This places the taking of the photo most probably in early July 1981. A curious detail is that Moody says (in 1995!) that this was the only time he ever met Aberforth. After all those years that the Order had been active. So what was so special about that particular time? Well, according to Rita Skeeter, Albus was approaching his eighteenth birthday when he left Hogwarts with a plan of touring the world with Elphias Doge. And according to the 'Wizard of the Month' card Rowling published shortly after DH, he was born in 1881. (Molly's great-aunt Muriel, who was a girl at the time of Ariana's funeral, was born around 1890.) So Albus must have turned 100 sometime in the summer of 1981. A celebration of such a historical event was something even Aberforth could not excuse himself from, though 'we've had precious little to celebrate for eleven years'. (Just as 16 years later he attended Albus' funeral, where he met Moody again.)
Going with 25 members (with Fabian and Minerva in the first Order, but without Hestia) there were 7 women and 18 men.
Ages of Order members: Lily and the Marauders were born between September 1959 and August 1960 (attended Hogwarts from September 1971 and June 1978). Hagrid was born in December 1928, attended Hogwarts from September 1940 to June 1943 (would have attended until June 1947 if he hadn't been expelled). Albus Dumbledore was born in the summer of 1881, Elphias Doge was in his year, the two attended Hogwarts from September 1892 to June 1899. Aberforth Dumbledore was probably born in the autumn of 1883, attended Hogwarts from 1895 (I do not know if he stayed for NEWTs, but he probably sat for OWLs in June 1900).
If Minerva was an Order member, and if we accept the Pottermore timeline, then she was born in October 1935 and attended Hogwarts from September 1947 until June 1954, came back to teach in December 1956.
Sturgis Podmore was 38 in September 1995. This places his birth around 1956-7 and his Hogwarts years as 1968-1975.
Frank Longbottom must have been at least a year older than the Marauders, such that he had time to complete his Auror training enough time before the end of the war to gain him his reputation as successful captor (or killer) of suspected DEs. He may have been a few years older yet. His grandmother was born in 1915, so he was unlikely to have been born before 1953. If we assume Augusta Longbottom was in Minerva's year (based on Minerva's familiarity with Augusta's grades) then the likely earliest birth date for Frank becomes 1954, the same year as Lucius Malfoy. With the early scenario, Frank left Hogwarts in 1972 and completed Auror training in the summer of 1975.
Alice Longbottom (maiden name unknown) must have also been at least a year older than the Marauders in order to allow her to have completed her training prior to Neville's birth. If we accept Dumbles' claim that both Longbottoms had up-close and personal encounters with Voldemort (making them candidates for parents of Prophecy boy) this might require her to have been at least a bit older (though we don't have to assume said encounters happened in their capacity as fully trained Aurors rather than their capacity as Dumbles' followers). We don't have to assume both Longbottoms were the same age - their relationship needn't have started while at school, they could have met at the Aurors' Office, perhaps while the younger one was a trainee.
Gideon and Fabian Prewett - Their sister Molly was probably born no later than (October) 1951, and probably not many years earlier, considering she and Arthur eloped. We do not know the birth order in this family, nor whether any of the siblings were twins so at most I can guess that Gideon and Fabian were likely born in the mid-to-late 1940s or early-to-mid 1950s.
Alastor Moody - was still an active Auror in 1981, and probably some years later, since he continued to suffer injuries, including the loss of his eye. Seems to have become a dedicated trainer of new Aurors at some point, retired in the summer of 1994. We have no idea what the typical retirement age if for Aurors, or even for Ministry workers in general. I'm going to guess he was born in the 1920s (or late 1910s) and attended Hogwarts in the 1930s. I am inclined to think he left school before Tom arrived, or at least before Tom made much of an impression outside of Slytherin House.
Edgar Bones and Marlene McKinnon were killed with their entire respective families. Now, that might mean Marlene, her parents and her cousins who were visiting, but most likely refers to a couple and their children. We do not know the ages of the children, and considering that the McKinnons were killed in July we cannot even know if the children were of school age, younger, or even adult children who came over for a family gathering. For Edgar Bones we have additional information - his brother has a daughter (Susan) in Harry's year and his sister (Amelia) rose to the position of DMLE head in the 1990s (probably in 1990, when Fudge became Minister) and was described in 1996 by the Muggle Prime Minister as a middle-aged woman. This places the birth dates of the Bones siblings in the 1940s-1950s.
Arabella Figg is gray-haired in 1995 and was always perceived by Harry as old, so I'd place her birth somewhere in the first 2 decades of the 20th century. Mundungus Fletcher OTOH has ginger hair, so he isn't very old, but we don't really know much about his age.
There is too little information to date Dedalus Diggle, Emmeline Vance, Benjy Fenwick, Caradoc Dearborn or Dorcas Meadows.
Of the 17 magical Order members for whom we have age information 3 are very old, 3 were born in the 1920s-1930s, and the remaining 11 were born in the mid 1940s or later, which means they spent most or all their time at Hogwarts with Albus as headmaster. I would not be surprised if this is the case for the Order members of unknown age - that Albus' recruiting was focused on the younger generation.
Blood-status: Arabella Figg was a Squib. Lily Potter was Muggle-born. James Potter, Sirius Black, the Longbottoms and the Prewett brothers were purebloods, mostly from old families (we don't know how long Alice's wizarding line was). Remus Lupin and Mundungus Fletcher, and now Minerva McGonagall are half-bloods (Remus and Minerva literal ones, it isn't clear what kind of half-blood Mundungus is.) The Dumbledore brothers are technical half-bloods. Peter Pettigrew's mother was probably a witch, but we don't know about the rest of his family. Edgar Bones has magical siblings. Elphias Doge must have been raised in a magical family to be able to contract dragon-pox before arriving at Hogwarts. Hagrid, of course, is the son of a wizard (blood status unknown) and a giantess. Dedalus Diggle probably had a wizarding upbringing, since he considers driving unusual and perplexing. In OOTP Sturgis Podmore appears to be unfamiliar with microwave ovens, but I don't think that means much, as even if he was raised in the Muggle world this technology only became widespread in his adulthood. It is very hard to tell what Alastor Moody's background was, nor do I see any hints about the 5 remaining first Order members. While quite a few Order members had Muggle relatives, other than Lily we don't see signs any of them had a non-magical upbringing. However if anyone wants to write a few more Muggle-born Order members there is a short list of candidates.
House: We know the Marauders, Lily, Hagrid and Minerva were in Gryffindor. Gideon and Fabian Prewett were the brothers of a Gryffindor. Augusta's pressure on Neville to measure up to his father, a pressure that only really lets off in DH when Neville becomes outright rebellious suggests Frank was in Gryffindor too. Edgar Bones is the only Order member (other than Sirius) with known family connections in a House other than Gryffindor - he has a niece in Hufflepuff. There is a canon rumor that Albus Dumbledore had been in Gryffindor, but many readers here have doubts about the veracity of said rumor.
There are several characters who come across as Gryffindors in their behavior: Dedalus Diggle (shooting stars in celebration of the victory with no concern for discovery by Muggles), Alastor Moody (a non-Gryffindor would have planned for participants in the seven-Potters scheme to disapparate upon attack to a designated spot), Aberforth Dumbledore (very direct attitude). OTOH Mundungus Fletcher is the least likely to have been a Gryffindor. I don't think we have information to place the remaining 8 magical Order members.
13 of the members of the first Order went on to participate in the Order during the second war (Albus Dumbledore, Aberforth Dumbledore, Minerva McGonagall, Rubeus Hagrid, Alastor Moody, Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher, Elphias Doge, Dedalus Diggle, Sturgis Podmore, Emmeline Vance, Sirius Black and Remus Lupin).
8 died: Marlene McKinnon, Gideon and Fabian Prewett, Edgar Bones, Benjy Fenwick, Dorcas Meadows, James and Lily Potter.
Caradoc Dearborn disappeared 6 months after the photo was taken, in January 1982. Was he killed by DEs in a post-war duel? Did he run away for some personal reason?
Peter Pettigrew hid as a rat and eventually went on to bring Voldemort back.
Alice and Frank Longbottom were tortured by DEs and ended up losing their minds.
What additional speculations can we make based on the photo? I am going to assume the positions of the people in the group were not entirely random, so we should be able to make educated speculations about their interactions. For instance, Albus is standing at one end of the front row with Alastor immediately next to him. Alastor must have been the second-in-command and the head of the general operations part of the Order just like he appears to be in the second war (running 2 rescue operations of Harry from 4PD and keeping the rota for watching the Department of Mysteries). Aberforth is standing at one end of the last row - guarding his brother's back from a distance. Sirius, James, Peter and Lily are in the back, but Remus is in the front, suggesting he was no longer welcome with the Potters. Was this because he was already suspected as a spy or was there some earlier break-up? In Lily's letter, which was sent some 3 weeks after the photo was taken he was not mentioned either.
Did the Longbottoms have any friends in the Order? They are standing between Marlene McKinnon and Emmeline Vance. Marlene could have been Alice's friend from school, or perhaps the two couples socialized together. Or Marlene, Emmeline and Alice may have been a group (did all three of them admire Frank yet manage not to break-up when he and Alice got together?). Alternatively, it is possible that the three years of training cost the Longbottoms their school days friendships and all their social ties were ones they formed with other Aurors. Of course once the Longbottoms' disability was revealed to be permanent any friends they may have had drifted away. (Does anyone think Moody slipped away from Arthur's room to visit Frank and Alice at the hospital?) I know fans like to see Lily and Alice as friends and they may have had a connection during their pregnancies and shortly after but I doubt it lasted. I don't think James liked the idea of Lily branching out socially.
What did Remus do once he was ousted of the Marauders? He is standing between Emmeline Vance and Benjy Fenwick. Did one (or both) of them become his mentor or partner for assignments? We don't see any sign of familiarity when Remus introduces her to Harry in OOTP, but then Tonks was already focused on him. Moody says of Benjy Fenwick that only bits of him were found. Are we sure he was killed by DEs? Is it possible he was with Remus on an assignment that due to unpredicted reasons extended into the full moon?
If Mundungus Fletcher was present when the photo was taken (and wasn't behind the camera) he must have been in the back row - near the Marauders and behind the Prewetts. The Marauders would have been natural partners for his 'business opportunities'. If the fanon perception of the Prewetts as forerunners of the twins is correct then so were they.
On one end of the middle row we have Edgar Bones and Sturgis Podmore. Edgar has family ties to Hufflepuff. Sturgis was a few years older than the Marauders (left school in 1975, a year before SWM). It is possible to imagine the two of them as friends from Hufflepuff, in the same year, who somehow got caught up in the Order, and did not fit in the Gryffindorish atmosphere of it. If one wants to write a critical insider view of the order that could be a way to do it. One may want to add Caradoc Dearborn to the same group.
One of the people in the back row is Dorcas Meadows. We don't know anything about her except that Moody believes Voldemort had killed her himself. Was she a young woman who perhaps was interested in Sirius? Was she a very old woman, a friend of Aberforth's? Or perhaps she was associated with Edgar and Sturgis in the row in front of her? Why would Voldemort bother to kill her personally at this stage of the war, and what made Moody believe Voldemort was her killer? Was it because no Dark Mark was set at the murder site? Or was this information Severus relayed? Did Voldemort kill her because that was when he turned the diary into a Horcrux (I think this was proposed by jodel)?
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Thus finally ends my series. My plan is to post a somewhat edited version of it on my journals (both live- and insane-) incorporating some of the reader comments (with attribution). Anyone is free to use any of it as basis for fic.
I don't really know in which order Frank and Alice were positioned because Moody refers to them as a single unit. Similarly, James and Lily's positions may have been reversed, but I assume Sirius would prefer to stand by James. While Frank and Alice, Lily and James, are mentioned explicitly, we are told about Marlene: 'That's Marlene McKinnon, she was killed two weeks after this was taken, they got her whole family.' And of Edgar Bones: 'That's Edgar Bones... brother of Amelia Bones, they got him and his family too, he was a great wizard'. While family members died with Marlene and Edgar, it appears said relatives were not in fact in the photo, and probably weren't Order members themselves. Similarly, when Moody says, 'Gideon Prewett, it took five Death Eaters to kill him and his brother Fabian', it looks like he was pointing at Gideon. Fabian may have not been in the photo, or perhaps he was standing behind Gideon, and Moody's narration never got to his position because his main purpose was to show Harry his parents.
We know at least two Order members not mentioned by Moody: Arabella Figg and Mundungus Fletcher, both mentioned by Albus in GOF as part of the 'old crowd'. It is possible Arabella was not present, as a squib she may have had difficulties arriving at Order gatherings. Or perhaps the two were also standing in the back.
How many people could have been hidden? Well, I'm pretty sure the third row was the last one, or Aberforth would have been standing even farther back behind his brother. The first row has 9 people, the second 6 (or 7, if you think Fabian is there next to Gideon), but one of them is Hagrid, who easily takes up the space of 3-4 humans. We know of 6 people in the third row. There is room for a few additional people there, which may include Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher and Fabian Prewett.
If there is anyone else there, those would be either ones who did not survive to the reforming of the Order in 1995, or people who became part of the 2nd Order. Members of the 2nd Order not mentioned so far are: Minerva McGonagall, Severus Snape, members of the Weasley family, Kingsley Shacklebolt, Nymphadora Tonks and Hestia Jones. Of these we know Severus was not part of the original Order (even when he turned he was not openly acting as Albus' agent, contributing to Sirius' confusion in POA about Severus' connection to events of 1993-4), we are told Kingsley and Tonks were new recruits (and Tonks, like Bill and Charlie, was still a child in 1981). When Albus starts gathering his forces in the hospital wing in GOF, he needs to ask Molly "...am I right in thinking that I can count on you and Arthur?", whereas he orders Sirius without questions or invitations. So I don't think the Weasleys were directly under his authority as part of the Order before. Leaving the possibilities of Minerva and Hestia. The latter is described as having pink cheeks, which fans usually take as implying a young age. Even if she was older than Tonks, she may have been too young to have been part of the first Order. But Minerva is a likely candidate. Thus in total the number of named memebers of the first Order at the time the photograph was taken is somewhere between 23 and 26.
When and under what circumstances was the photograph taken? Moody tells Harry that the McKinnon family was killed two weeks later, and according to her letter, Lily believed Peter had been mourning the McKinnons when he visited the weekend before Harry's birthday. This places the taking of the photo most probably in early July 1981. A curious detail is that Moody says (in 1995!) that this was the only time he ever met Aberforth. After all those years that the Order had been active. So what was so special about that particular time? Well, according to Rita Skeeter, Albus was approaching his eighteenth birthday when he left Hogwarts with a plan of touring the world with Elphias Doge. And according to the 'Wizard of the Month' card Rowling published shortly after DH, he was born in 1881. (Molly's great-aunt Muriel, who was a girl at the time of Ariana's funeral, was born around 1890.) So Albus must have turned 100 sometime in the summer of 1981. A celebration of such a historical event was something even Aberforth could not excuse himself from, though 'we've had precious little to celebrate for eleven years'. (Just as 16 years later he attended Albus' funeral, where he met Moody again.)
Going with 25 members (with Fabian and Minerva in the first Order, but without Hestia) there were 7 women and 18 men.
Ages of Order members: Lily and the Marauders were born between September 1959 and August 1960 (attended Hogwarts from September 1971 and June 1978). Hagrid was born in December 1928, attended Hogwarts from September 1940 to June 1943 (would have attended until June 1947 if he hadn't been expelled). Albus Dumbledore was born in the summer of 1881, Elphias Doge was in his year, the two attended Hogwarts from September 1892 to June 1899. Aberforth Dumbledore was probably born in the autumn of 1883, attended Hogwarts from 1895 (I do not know if he stayed for NEWTs, but he probably sat for OWLs in June 1900).
If Minerva was an Order member, and if we accept the Pottermore timeline, then she was born in October 1935 and attended Hogwarts from September 1947 until June 1954, came back to teach in December 1956.
Sturgis Podmore was 38 in September 1995. This places his birth around 1956-7 and his Hogwarts years as 1968-1975.
Frank Longbottom must have been at least a year older than the Marauders, such that he had time to complete his Auror training enough time before the end of the war to gain him his reputation as successful captor (or killer) of suspected DEs. He may have been a few years older yet. His grandmother was born in 1915, so he was unlikely to have been born before 1953. If we assume Augusta Longbottom was in Minerva's year (based on Minerva's familiarity with Augusta's grades) then the likely earliest birth date for Frank becomes 1954, the same year as Lucius Malfoy. With the early scenario, Frank left Hogwarts in 1972 and completed Auror training in the summer of 1975.
Alice Longbottom (maiden name unknown) must have also been at least a year older than the Marauders in order to allow her to have completed her training prior to Neville's birth. If we accept Dumbles' claim that both Longbottoms had up-close and personal encounters with Voldemort (making them candidates for parents of Prophecy boy) this might require her to have been at least a bit older (though we don't have to assume said encounters happened in their capacity as fully trained Aurors rather than their capacity as Dumbles' followers). We don't have to assume both Longbottoms were the same age - their relationship needn't have started while at school, they could have met at the Aurors' Office, perhaps while the younger one was a trainee.
Gideon and Fabian Prewett - Their sister Molly was probably born no later than (October) 1951, and probably not many years earlier, considering she and Arthur eloped. We do not know the birth order in this family, nor whether any of the siblings were twins so at most I can guess that Gideon and Fabian were likely born in the mid-to-late 1940s or early-to-mid 1950s.
Alastor Moody - was still an active Auror in 1981, and probably some years later, since he continued to suffer injuries, including the loss of his eye. Seems to have become a dedicated trainer of new Aurors at some point, retired in the summer of 1994. We have no idea what the typical retirement age if for Aurors, or even for Ministry workers in general. I'm going to guess he was born in the 1920s (or late 1910s) and attended Hogwarts in the 1930s. I am inclined to think he left school before Tom arrived, or at least before Tom made much of an impression outside of Slytherin House.
Edgar Bones and Marlene McKinnon were killed with their entire respective families. Now, that might mean Marlene, her parents and her cousins who were visiting, but most likely refers to a couple and their children. We do not know the ages of the children, and considering that the McKinnons were killed in July we cannot even know if the children were of school age, younger, or even adult children who came over for a family gathering. For Edgar Bones we have additional information - his brother has a daughter (Susan) in Harry's year and his sister (Amelia) rose to the position of DMLE head in the 1990s (probably in 1990, when Fudge became Minister) and was described in 1996 by the Muggle Prime Minister as a middle-aged woman. This places the birth dates of the Bones siblings in the 1940s-1950s.
Arabella Figg is gray-haired in 1995 and was always perceived by Harry as old, so I'd place her birth somewhere in the first 2 decades of the 20th century. Mundungus Fletcher OTOH has ginger hair, so he isn't very old, but we don't really know much about his age.
There is too little information to date Dedalus Diggle, Emmeline Vance, Benjy Fenwick, Caradoc Dearborn or Dorcas Meadows.
Of the 17 magical Order members for whom we have age information 3 are very old, 3 were born in the 1920s-1930s, and the remaining 11 were born in the mid 1940s or later, which means they spent most or all their time at Hogwarts with Albus as headmaster. I would not be surprised if this is the case for the Order members of unknown age - that Albus' recruiting was focused on the younger generation.
Blood-status: Arabella Figg was a Squib. Lily Potter was Muggle-born. James Potter, Sirius Black, the Longbottoms and the Prewett brothers were purebloods, mostly from old families (we don't know how long Alice's wizarding line was). Remus Lupin and Mundungus Fletcher, and now Minerva McGonagall are half-bloods (Remus and Minerva literal ones, it isn't clear what kind of half-blood Mundungus is.) The Dumbledore brothers are technical half-bloods. Peter Pettigrew's mother was probably a witch, but we don't know about the rest of his family. Edgar Bones has magical siblings. Elphias Doge must have been raised in a magical family to be able to contract dragon-pox before arriving at Hogwarts. Hagrid, of course, is the son of a wizard (blood status unknown) and a giantess. Dedalus Diggle probably had a wizarding upbringing, since he considers driving unusual and perplexing. In OOTP Sturgis Podmore appears to be unfamiliar with microwave ovens, but I don't think that means much, as even if he was raised in the Muggle world this technology only became widespread in his adulthood. It is very hard to tell what Alastor Moody's background was, nor do I see any hints about the 5 remaining first Order members. While quite a few Order members had Muggle relatives, other than Lily we don't see signs any of them had a non-magical upbringing. However if anyone wants to write a few more Muggle-born Order members there is a short list of candidates.
House: We know the Marauders, Lily, Hagrid and Minerva were in Gryffindor. Gideon and Fabian Prewett were the brothers of a Gryffindor. Augusta's pressure on Neville to measure up to his father, a pressure that only really lets off in DH when Neville becomes outright rebellious suggests Frank was in Gryffindor too. Edgar Bones is the only Order member (other than Sirius) with known family connections in a House other than Gryffindor - he has a niece in Hufflepuff. There is a canon rumor that Albus Dumbledore had been in Gryffindor, but many readers here have doubts about the veracity of said rumor.
There are several characters who come across as Gryffindors in their behavior: Dedalus Diggle (shooting stars in celebration of the victory with no concern for discovery by Muggles), Alastor Moody (a non-Gryffindor would have planned for participants in the seven-Potters scheme to disapparate upon attack to a designated spot), Aberforth Dumbledore (very direct attitude). OTOH Mundungus Fletcher is the least likely to have been a Gryffindor. I don't think we have information to place the remaining 8 magical Order members.
13 of the members of the first Order went on to participate in the Order during the second war (Albus Dumbledore, Aberforth Dumbledore, Minerva McGonagall, Rubeus Hagrid, Alastor Moody, Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher, Elphias Doge, Dedalus Diggle, Sturgis Podmore, Emmeline Vance, Sirius Black and Remus Lupin).
8 died: Marlene McKinnon, Gideon and Fabian Prewett, Edgar Bones, Benjy Fenwick, Dorcas Meadows, James and Lily Potter.
Caradoc Dearborn disappeared 6 months after the photo was taken, in January 1982. Was he killed by DEs in a post-war duel? Did he run away for some personal reason?
Peter Pettigrew hid as a rat and eventually went on to bring Voldemort back.
Alice and Frank Longbottom were tortured by DEs and ended up losing their minds.
What additional speculations can we make based on the photo? I am going to assume the positions of the people in the group were not entirely random, so we should be able to make educated speculations about their interactions. For instance, Albus is standing at one end of the front row with Alastor immediately next to him. Alastor must have been the second-in-command and the head of the general operations part of the Order just like he appears to be in the second war (running 2 rescue operations of Harry from 4PD and keeping the rota for watching the Department of Mysteries). Aberforth is standing at one end of the last row - guarding his brother's back from a distance. Sirius, James, Peter and Lily are in the back, but Remus is in the front, suggesting he was no longer welcome with the Potters. Was this because he was already suspected as a spy or was there some earlier break-up? In Lily's letter, which was sent some 3 weeks after the photo was taken he was not mentioned either.
Did the Longbottoms have any friends in the Order? They are standing between Marlene McKinnon and Emmeline Vance. Marlene could have been Alice's friend from school, or perhaps the two couples socialized together. Or Marlene, Emmeline and Alice may have been a group (did all three of them admire Frank yet manage not to break-up when he and Alice got together?). Alternatively, it is possible that the three years of training cost the Longbottoms their school days friendships and all their social ties were ones they formed with other Aurors. Of course once the Longbottoms' disability was revealed to be permanent any friends they may have had drifted away. (Does anyone think Moody slipped away from Arthur's room to visit Frank and Alice at the hospital?) I know fans like to see Lily and Alice as friends and they may have had a connection during their pregnancies and shortly after but I doubt it lasted. I don't think James liked the idea of Lily branching out socially.
What did Remus do once he was ousted of the Marauders? He is standing between Emmeline Vance and Benjy Fenwick. Did one (or both) of them become his mentor or partner for assignments? We don't see any sign of familiarity when Remus introduces her to Harry in OOTP, but then Tonks was already focused on him. Moody says of Benjy Fenwick that only bits of him were found. Are we sure he was killed by DEs? Is it possible he was with Remus on an assignment that due to unpredicted reasons extended into the full moon?
If Mundungus Fletcher was present when the photo was taken (and wasn't behind the camera) he must have been in the back row - near the Marauders and behind the Prewetts. The Marauders would have been natural partners for his 'business opportunities'. If the fanon perception of the Prewetts as forerunners of the twins is correct then so were they.
On one end of the middle row we have Edgar Bones and Sturgis Podmore. Edgar has family ties to Hufflepuff. Sturgis was a few years older than the Marauders (left school in 1975, a year before SWM). It is possible to imagine the two of them as friends from Hufflepuff, in the same year, who somehow got caught up in the Order, and did not fit in the Gryffindorish atmosphere of it. If one wants to write a critical insider view of the order that could be a way to do it. One may want to add Caradoc Dearborn to the same group.
One of the people in the back row is Dorcas Meadows. We don't know anything about her except that Moody believes Voldemort had killed her himself. Was she a young woman who perhaps was interested in Sirius? Was she a very old woman, a friend of Aberforth's? Or perhaps she was associated with Edgar and Sturgis in the row in front of her? Why would Voldemort bother to kill her personally at this stage of the war, and what made Moody believe Voldemort was her killer? Was it because no Dark Mark was set at the murder site? Or was this information Severus relayed? Did Voldemort kill her because that was when he turned the diary into a Horcrux (I think this was proposed by jodel)?
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Thus finally ends my series. My plan is to post a somewhat edited version of it on my journals (both live- and insane-) incorporating some of the reader comments (with attribution). Anyone is free to use any of it as basis for fic.
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Date: 2014-06-11 02:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-11 04:18 pm (UTC)All that said Albus reached adulthood at a much different era and could easily have thought differently about women at that time.
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Date: 2014-06-11 04:36 pm (UTC)It just seems to me there ought to be a bigger difference—and a much more deeply-rooted one—between the two cultures. It should matter a lot that witches can't be beaten and raped by wizards, and that there really are no jobs or activities or roles that can't, obviously and undeniably, be handled just as well by a witch as a wizard. Instead we seem to have ordinary male-dominated culture with a few tokens like Minister Bagnold and Auror Alice.
Of course something like that would have required serious world-building, and that's something JKR doesn't do.
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Date: 2014-06-11 04:42 pm (UTC)But it does bring up the question of why the Marauders were allowed so much leeway in their bullying. It encourages ignoring empathetic feelings for others. And since the Marauders were not really penalized enough over the werewolf incident (seeing as how they apparently continued to release Moony) they were also not being encouraged to stop their recklessness.
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Date: 2014-06-12 05:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-12 01:48 pm (UTC)But yes, it does give us a reason for allowing the Marauders to run wild and also for why they and perhaps not other ex-students were invited. We do not know whether Fabian & Gideon were actually such 'pranksters', too altho' I think it is hinted at just by their initials. But it suggests that they might have been just as nasty as the Marauders could be, since we see Fred & George up to some questionable offenses as well.
And while I love fanfics that have Frank Longbottom as a voice of reason in Gryffindor, in truth the fact that Sirius said only Moody refused to use the unforgivables as an auror must raise questions about aurors Frank & Alice. Of course, this is Sirius talking and so it is probably exaggerated, therefore I can still hope for Neville that his parents were nice people. But considering Frank's mother is what my southern dad would have called a 'tough ole bird' I wouldn't count on Frank being sweetness and light.
We then have Mungdungus - not exactly an 'upstanding' citizen and I have to wonder about the criteria for Albus' choosing Order members.
no subject
Date: 2014-06-14 10:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-05 11:13 pm (UTC)(Although then again, given that convicted Death Eaters would most likely be sent to go mad in Azkaban, maybe Frank just reckoned that killing them in combat was the merciful course of action. A clean, quick, honourable death, and all that.)
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Date: 2014-07-13 05:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-06-14 09:15 pm (UTC)I would think they could. If the wizard knows some nasty dark spells she doesn't. Or a simple Expelliarmus and a witch is in no better shape than a muggle.
In the books love potions are treated as a joke. But they would be the perfect date rape drug.
Its odd how JKR shows sexuality, it's are the witches how are the aggressors. It is the girls who are interested in the love potions. We see them being used by witches. No mention of a wizard using them to get the witch.
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Date: 2014-06-14 09:43 pm (UTC)There does seem to be a pattern of people with stronger magic dominating society and being looked up to as leaders, even when strong magic itself is not needed for the specific position. Why should the Minister for Magic or the Headmaster of Hogwarts need to be able to cast especially strong spells? Those are administrative posts. One doesn't expect the Prime Minister of Britain to be able to beat up everyone he meets.
Regarding love potions: if JKR showed teenage wizards plotting to use love potions, it would be all too obvious that they are in fact rape drugs, which is not something you want in a kids' book. I don't think it's any better to have girls in a kids' book using rape drugs, but it tends to fly under the radar. JKR is not the only one to find the use of force by women on men to be humorous. Others have discussed this issue here of DTCL and have done an excellent job, so I won't continue, except to say it's ugly.
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Date: 2014-06-29 03:09 am (UTC)I hate the "kid's book" excuse.
Yes the first books are kid's books.
But the final two--
JKR stated the books would mature with Harry.
The last books she is going much darker and much more serious. Leaving behind kid territory. The last book is suppose to be this deep book about war and death.
So JKR is going for more the Young Adult category at the end. But she pulls her punches in places because she wants to keep the younger readers. And that is a problem. She needed to choose one or the other. Trying to do both didn't work. The final books are too dark for children, but the efforts to make it more child friendly weaken the story line.
It ends up luke-warm, neither hot or cold. Not really a child's book, not really young adult.
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Date: 2014-06-22 06:54 am (UTC)Come to think of, while it's true that a lot of the causes for women's position in the muggle world don't apply in the wizarding world, both worlds haven't been separated for all that long. Up until the the Statute of Secrecy was established, there seems to have been a lot more interaction, with the old families being part of the muggle aristocracy and so on. Witches and wizards may have hidden their magic, and important places like Hogwarts, Hogsmeade, and Diagon Alley, but a lot of people were apparently part of both worlds. That would explain why wizarding society isn't all that different from the muggle one. And with how important tradition is, it makes sense that in a lot of ways they haven't come as far as the muggle world where equality is concerned.
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Date: 2014-06-21 04:47 pm (UTC)OTOH if there had been a push from women who wanted careers, someone would have come up with a system for elementary schooling, even if it were optional.
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Date: 2014-06-29 03:38 am (UTC)Wouldn't a Witch from or married to a Wizard with a history of Squibs want to hide the fact she is pregnant? It would be hard to do that and hold a job outside the home.