[identity profile] radicalhighway.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock
I've been a lurker of this place for so long! I've decided to post my first entry... I hope it's enjoyable.

The old Pottermore was scrapped and another one is going to take its place. Here I thought it couldn't get any less interesting, but it did. Supposedly, there's going to be something similar to the old thing that will be added. I found the FAQ page to be absolutely hillarious, so I thought it would be funny to share a few snippets.

  • This is where you’ll be able to read brand new writing by J. K. Rowling (yes, it’s canon!), check out magical characters, objects, spells and places, reminisce about the first time you read the books, ruminate on advice from the great Dumbledore, speculate about Newt Scamander, try to guess the identity of the Cursed Child, fall in love with the stories all over again and SO MUCH MORE.

So yes, these thing is canon and it's very important that we all know this. JKR really likes to tell people what to think, there's no such thing as readership interpretation, and she's a real hack, because she didn't include any of this in the series and instead chose to spend her time writing about nonsense.

The good thing about it is that there's more "canon" stuff to spork. It's amazing how I used to love this series until a certain point, but then it became so bad I get entertainment out of mocking it, for years too. Pottermore was really slow in the updates by the end tho, so expect it to go exactly like the books. Really fun when it starts, bland and lazy after awhile.

The Cursed Child... Uhm... Must be every Slytherin that has ever existed... Remember though, choices make you who you are. Except if you're Tom Riddle. That one was rotten since conception. Oh no, I know, the Cursed Child is Tom Riddle. Such a pair, the Cursed Child and the Boy Who Lived.

Also a moment of silent for the great Dumbledore. I almost cried but I'm over 20 so I managed to hold myself. Imagine if I cried, I'd be classified as a Cho Chang, not a Ginny Weasley.

  • From the bottom of my Hermione-loving heart, welcome to the new and improved Pottermore.

The Cho Chang badge of tears belongs to me after all.

  • We have so much more to give you; writing, movies, plays, books, characters, places, backstories, and it’s rumoured that discovering your very own Patronus is also in the works...And the icing on the cauldron cake? The new Pottermore logo is in J.K. Rowling’s own handwriting.

The icing on the cake of the website is JKR writing a word in her own handwritting. There's setting the bar low and then there's this.

Now onto her lovely backstory about the Potter family.


The Potter Family by J. K. Rowling

The Potter family is a very old one, but it was never (until the birth of Harry James Potter) at the very forefront of wizarding history, contenting itself with a solid and comfortable existence in the backwaters.

Potter is a not uncommon Muggle surname, and the family did not make the so-called ‘Sacred Twenty-Eight’ for this reason; the anonymous compiler of that supposedly definitive list of pure-bloods suspected that they had sprung from what he considered to be tainted blood. The wizarding Potter family had illustrious beginnings, however, some of which was hinted at in Deathly Hallows.

In the Muggle world ‘Potter’ is an occupational surname, meaning a man who creates pottery. The wizarding family of Potters descends from the twelfth-century wizard Linfred of Stinchcombe, a locally well-beloved and eccentric man, whose nickname, ‘the Potterer’, became corrupted in time to ‘Potter’. Linfred was a vague and absent-minded fellow whose Muggle neighbours often called upon his medicinal services. None of them realised that Linfred’s wonderful cures for pox and ague were magical; they all thought him a harmless and lovable old chap, pottering about in his garden with all his funny plants. His reputation as a well-meaning eccentric served Linfred well, for behind closed doors he was able to continue the series of experiments that laid the foundation of the Potter family’s fortune. Historians credit Linfred as the originator of a number of remedies that evolved into potions still used to this day, including Skele-gro and Pepperup Potion. His sales of such cures to fellow witches and wizards enabled him to leave a significant pile of gold to each of his seven children upon his death.

Linfred’s eldest son, Hardwin, married a beautiful young witch by the name of Iolanthe Peverell, who came from the village of Godric’s Hollow. She was the granddaughter of Ignotus Peverell. In the absence of male heirs, she, the eldest of her generation, had inherited her grandfather’s invisibility cloak. It was, Iolanthe explained to Hardwin, a tradition in her family that the possession of this cloak remained a secret, and her new husband respected her wishes. From this time on, the cloak was handed down to the eldest in each new generation.

The Potters continued to marry their neighbours, occasionally Muggles, and to live in the West of England, for several generations, each one adding to the family coffers by their hard work and, it must be said, by the quiet brand of ingenuity that had characterised their forebear, Linfred.

Occasionally, a Potter made it all the way to London, and a member of the family has twice sat on the Wizengamot: Ralston Potter, who was a member from 1612-1652, and who was a great supporter of the Statute of Secrecy (as opposed to declaring war on the Muggles, as more militant members wished to do) and Henry Potter (Harry to his intimates), who was a direct descendant of Hardwin and Iolanthe, and served on the Wizengamot from 1913 - 1921. Henry caused a minor stir when he publicly condemned then Minister for Magic, Archer Evermonde, who had forbidden the magical community to help Muggles waging the First World War. His outspokenness on the behalf of the Muggle community was also a strong contributing factor in the family’s exclusion from the ‘Sacred Twenty-Eight’.

Henry’s son was called Fleamont Potter. Fleamont was so called because it was the dying wish of Henry’s mother that he perpetuate her maiden name, which would otherwise die out. He bore the burden remarkably well; indeed, he always attributed his dexterity at duelling to the number of times he had to fight people at Hogwarts after they had made fun of his name. It was Fleamont who took the family gold and quadrupled it, by creating magical Sleekeazy’s Hair Potion ( ‘two drops tames even the most bothersome barnet’ ). He sold the company at a vast profit when he retired, but no amount of riches could compensate him or his wife Euphemia for their childlessness. They had quite given up hope of a son or daughter when, to their shock and surprise, Euphemia found that she was pregnant and their beloved boy, James, was born.

Fleamont and Euphemia lived long enough to see James marry a Muggle-born girl called Lily Evans, but not to meet their grandson, Harry. Dragon pox carried them off within days of each other, due to their advanced age, and James Potter then inherited Ignotus Peverell’s Invisibility Cloak.

It's time for rejoicing! JKR’s speciality of having the cake and eat it is also present on the new Pottermore!

The Potters like to hang out in the background of the wizarding world (amazing that in contrast James and Harry are both such attention whores) and have no real ambitions whatsoever (how dare I mention that slytherin sin). On that same breath, they are respected and accomplished, including genius potion masters whose inventions are still used today and wizegamot members who'd have their influence on society. They also love Muggles and defend Muggles staunchily, but I guess doing them justice is the only exception that confirms the rule about their penchant for staying in the background.

They even marry Muggles, can you imagine it? Yet they are still considered to be purebloods and JKR mentions that they should have been included in the pureblood list. I don't... It’s either one thing or the other thing. At this point, the pureblood status is as vague as a definition as curses or dark magic.  On another hand, while the surname is a common muggle name, most of the first names are weird: Linfred, Hardwin, Ralston, Fleamont, etc. The unfortunate implications of this is that while their surname was "muggle" their first name was "magical". JKR not noticing the unconscious compensation she made here, almost as obvious as her mentioning that the Potters should have been on the Sacred Twenty Eight multiple times while dissing the list in the same breath.

Anyway, the Potters are just another Weasley family, old wizarding family that doesn't care about ambition, previlege or blood purity (lol), loves the Muggles, helps the Muggles, defends the Muggles, even marries the Muggles; while having weight in society anyway and remaining pureblood until recently (whatever that means). The only difference between the Potters and the Weasleys is that the Potters have money while the Weasleys are perpetually poor. Harry > Ron, always and forever, no matter what. Ron, always second best to Harry, even in the families they were born into. The Potters are the exact same epicness of goodness as the Weasleys (nice ripoff there, no imagination whatsoever), but with accomplishments and money (ooooh, that's differeeeeent!!).

Another thing about the family is that they're old. There is no reason given and one has to assume its because the surname has survived until now. That's so nondescript (because there's nothing substantial about it since they married muggles anyway) and sexist, GG the wizarding world has equalness of genders according to JKR my arse ... Amusingly, one of the reasons why the Potters didn’t make the Sacred Twenty Eight is because Potter is a common muggle surname. This generates other two amusing things. The first is the bad damage control because Black and MacMillan is a muggle name too, even more so than Potter. Maybe this is going to be the excuse as to why the Blacks were so obsessed with being purebloods, their surname was so muggle, ew. The second is hypocrisy because some unnamed Potter lady didn't want her surname to die out, but why would this be an issue when the surname is common by the text's own admittion, unless 'BLOOD PRIDE' exists in the Potter family after all. By the way, according to this, the Potters have their roots in the 12th century, which matches the Blacks claims of the oldest families as well. Just to add up to how Harry > your favourite.

The Potters have a least two potion masters under their belt and several of the useful potions that are still being used in the universe were made by them. Skele-Gro, Pepper-Up Potion, Sleakeazy... Yet, they liked to stay in the background, uhm sure that's believable (remember, them trying to help the Muggles is just from the good of their hearts, the money they earned was just what they deserved, and not something as dirty as ambition, ew). Anyway, the first Potter was an absent-minded potion genius. You let that sink in, considering Snape and Neville. There are also several cases of ingenuity and hard-work down the line, which have added to the fortune of the family and blah blah blah. Isn't so sad Harry had such people in his family (but Slughorn didn't mention about any of these potion geniuses to Harry when he should know and chose to talk about his mother instead) and his own mother was supposedly this genius at it (still convinced she leached off Snape), yet he fails so miserably at the subject and has no other skills besides a spell he learnt in his second year? :( I understand though, our great hero can’t be perfect, he must have some flaws therefore he's mediocre at schoolwork.... Another reason why Harry is so much better than everyone else.

ETA; Regarding Sleakeazy, get it? How James and Harry have hair issues, so it must be a family thing, so his grandfather made hair products to counter it? How Snape hated James, by consequence he hated the Potters, and that's why he doesn't wash his hair because all there is Potter products? I'm giving this too much credit.

A bit of a tangent, but how slow is the uptake of the wizarding world? They're still using the same medicine they came up with in the 12th century. There's a distinct lack of knowledge effort and search, yet they're always portrayed as better than Muggles..

Another tangent is that in the middle of the Linfreds and Rlstons there's an Harry, who so just happens to be mentioned as champion for Muggles. And yes, his defence of Muggles in WWI wasn't because the war sucked in general but because the muggles needed the mighty wizard's help. Maybe he'd offer his 12th century medicine to us in the barracks. LOL. Can you imagine them trying to help in WWII and being confronted with the A-bombs? Oh my. I'd make a joke but then I'd be called insenstive.

There's also some weirdness about how James' parents were childish. What I get from the paragraph was that they almost lost the chance of having kids because they were too busy doing things such as hair potions. Just for the good of the people of course, hair potions are so important (Hermione will tell you, while still being upset that Ron only cares about the beautiful girls). It wasn't because of money, there's no slytherin ambition here, James' father was a Gryffindor remember, ew. So my conclusion is that focusing on a career instead of procreating is childish according to JKR. No wonder there are so many parents shy of twenty in the series.

The Potter parents witnessed James marry (but ofcouse, they had to give their blessing to Lily deeming her worthy or were they blessed by Saint Lily instead, one will never know about this, such two strenghts vs each other here), but they didn't see the Chosen One being born (such a tragedy). They're not the ones on the Black tapestry. JKR probably forgot she had done that. Good news though! Harry isn't related to Draco after all!

James only inherited the cloak after his father died, so either A) he "borrowed" it (lets use borrow, not stole it really! just like the marauders map has some questionable spells but no dark magic, honest!) B) his father gave it to him (which would be stupid, especially after receiving so many letters complaining about his behaviour), Then again, Dumbledore gave Harry the Invisibility Cloak when he was eleven too. Common sense isn't wizard-like trait. None of that is listed in Hogwards House traits.

It's amazing how there's not a single bad apple on this batch. Not a single one. It's also not explicitly said, but I'm assuming they were all Gryffindors, even though there's plenty of Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, and Slytherin traits sprinkled in this text. Much like dark magic and pureblood status, Hogwarts Houses are also entering that vague "whatever that means" territory.

Date: 2015-09-22 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
And in one fell swoop, JKR wipes away years of theorizing and headcanon about the significance of Harry being descended from the Blacks. Oh well, I'll fanwank it somehow, maybe make Dorea and Charlus his grandparents' middle names.

--Occasionally, a Potter made it all the way to London, and a member of the family has twice sat on the Wizengamot

She has yet to tell us how one becomes a member of the Wizengamot.

--Anyway, the Potters are just another Weasley family, old wizarding family that doesn't care about ambition, previlege or blood purity (lol), loves the Muggles, helps the Muggles, defends the Muggles, even marries the Muggles; while having weight in society anyway and remaining pureblood until recently (whatever that means). The only difference between the Potters and the Weasleys is that the Potters have money while the Weasleys are perpetually poor.

This is how the Potter family is written in a lot of fanfics, so it's not surprising, though it is unoriginal. But it is a bit unexpected that their money comes from potions. Many fics have them as broomstick designers. And you're totally right about Slughorn failing to mention that Harry is descended from a family of potioneers. I mean, Slughorn and Fleamont were contemporaries.

--There's also some weirdness about how James' parents were childish.

It's childless, but your point still stands.


Excellent first post!


--------------

I actually took a break from HP fandom for a couple of years because I was tired of having theories Jossed by Pottermore. I was so relieved when they finally released the stuff for DH. I really would like her to let the story go please.

----------------

Oh, and what about all of the notes from the previous site. Some it's there on the new one, but a lot of it isn't. I know that fans have archived it elsewhere, but it's kind of inconsiderate to vanish content. Plus, I was never active on Pottermore, but I know others were, and it sucks for them to have their community of four years suddenly shut down on them.
Edited Date: 2015-09-22 09:27 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-23 12:43 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
And in one fell swoop, JKR wipes away years of theorizing and headcanon about the significance of Harry being descended from the Blacks. Oh well, I'll fanwank it somehow, maybe make Dorea and Charlus his grandparents' middle names.

I know. And to what end? Maybe someone pointed out that Charlus and Dorea weren't actually all that old when James was born?

I suppose Charlus could be Fleamont's younger brother, or a cousin or something. But that creates a new problem: why didn't Charlus and Dorea's son try to get custody of Baby Harry? Or, failing that, try to contact Harry once he'd re-entered the wizarding world and welcome him to the family? Did Cousin Potter die in the first war? Was he a Pureblood fanatic (well, he did marry a Black) and so didn't want anything to do with the son of a dirty Mudblood? Whatever the answer, you would think the fact that Harry had living Potter relatives would be relevant.

Date: 2015-09-23 01:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
--I know. And to what end? Maybe someone pointed out that Charlus and Dorea weren't actually all that old when James was born?

Eh, Dorea was 40 when James was born, which is fairly old for a real-life woman to have her first child, and there's nothing to suggest that witches stay fertile longer than regular women. And the tapestry tells us nothing about Charlus's age. But who knows if JKR would agree.

I think it's more likely that radicalhighway is right and JKR simply forgot about the tapestry.

--But that creates a new problem: why didn't Charlus and Dorea's son try to get custody of Baby Harry? Or, failing that, try to contact Harry once he'd re-entered the wizarding world and welcome him to the family.... Whatever the answer, you would think the fact that Harry had living Potter relatives would be relevant.

Exactly. The story starts to fall apart if James had a close living relative, and everything in the books suggests that Harry is the last of the Potters.

I'm most likely going to stick with Harry's grandmother being a Black. JKR has a history changing the names of characters in her notes (e.g. the class list), so I'll probably just adjust stuff on the tapestry. Euphemia works perfectly well as a name for a Black daughter. And, like I said, I might make Dorea and Charlus their middles names, which they both preferred because their first names were so weird. There are no dates for Charlus on the tapestry, so there's no contradiction there. Dorea died in 1977, so we only have to change that to a year or two later to reconcile it with the new info. And late fifties might be old to get dragon pox.

Date: 2015-09-23 05:27 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
It really depends on the person. But even for Muggles, it's getting easier to have babies later, and more people are delaying it. I know several late 30s/early 40s moms. And a lot of my classmates' moms had delayed childbearing until at least their early to mid-30s--though admittedly, they weren't a demographically representative sample. But that's why when JKR said they were sooo old to be parents, I'd have thought closer to 50 than 40 or it would have just been "on the older side, for first-time parents." And she did say they were old "even for wizards." Which makes it sound like wizarding parents can be older than Muggle parents without being unusual (even if she didn't show it, but then we never got most of Harry's classmates' parents' ages), in which case 40 really isn't that old.

And I just can't think of 57, or even 60, as an "advanced age." Old to be catching a disease for the first time? Maybe. But I'd hardly call that the same thing as "succumbing" due to "advanced age." You have to be actually old to be of advanced age! Good grief, JKR herself is only a few years off from that--she should know it isn't old. My mom is about Dorea's age and she's probably in better shape than I am, and has a stronger immune system. If JKR she meant was that James's mother was old to be catching it for the first time, she phrased it very misleadingly. On two separate occasions. When she says it twice, she might actually mean it.

I wish JKR would just stop talking sometimes...

Date: 2015-09-24 12:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
la la la I can't hear you! ;)

Date: 2015-09-24 01:44 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Okay, maybe I can help, at least with the "old for parents" side ;-) I found this CDC brief on the rising age of first motherhood, and it notes a rise since 1970: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db152.htm

Which doesn't tell us anything about the late 1950s or early 1960s, or how the situation in Britain compares to the US... but it at least suggests some wiggle room? Like, when James was born, 35 was "old even for wizards" to have a first baby, but nowadays the age will have shifted up to, oh, 45.

Still can't help with the "advanced age" of 60, alas. Maybe... er... Euphemia Dorea had a weak immune system... and got lumped in with her husband as "old" because he was 85?

Date: 2015-09-24 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seductivedark.livejournal.com
She may have meant that, culturally, the Potters were old to be having their first. She doesn't always telegraph what she means by what she says, if the Deathly Hallows (and their lack in canon) are any indication.

On catching a disease later in life: if Dragon Pox are supposedly like Chicken Pox (animal + pox makes me think it is) then, yes, the older one gets, the worse the disease could be. I have a friend who had chicken pox when she was in her mid-thirties. She had them so bad that she spent many hours a day in an oatmeal bath. She had them down her throat and almost into her lungs. Problem with that is that the pox will burst and drain, and if they're in the lungs, a person could drown. That severity can be had at any age, but it's more likely that an 'older' person (and we all know that mid-thirties isn't really 'old') will have a more severe case and be more at-risk. 'Old' is a relative term when talking comparisons.

Date: 2015-09-24 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
There is canon support for that - Horace's response to Draco's mention of his grandfather Abraxas.

Date: 2015-09-26 01:56 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
That sounds awful. I knew it could be somewhat worse later, but I didn't know it could be that much worse.

Sigh. Okay, maybe that is what JKR meant. I just have never, ever heard the phrase "advanced age" used to mean "older than usual for X situation," but we know she doesn't speak precisely.

Date: 2015-09-26 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
I think it may be impossible to know whether or not JKR intended for Charlus and Dorea to be Jame's parents when she made the tapestry back in January of 2006. This is what she said about the Potters in an interview on 16 July, 2005:
MA: What about Harry's family — his grandparents — were they killed?

JKR: No. This takes us into more mundane territory. As a writer, it was more interesting, plot-wise, if Harry was completely alone. So I rather ruthlessly disposed of his entire family apart from Aunt Petunia. I mean, James and Lily are massively important to the plot, of course, but the grandparents? No. And, because I do like my backstory: Petunia and Lily's parents, normal Muggle death. James's parents were elderly, were getting on a little when he was born, which explains the only child, very pampered, had-him-late-in-life-so-he's-an-extra-treasure, as often happens, I think. They were old in wizarding terms, and they died. They succumbed to a wizarding illness. That's as far as it goes. There's nothing serious or sinister about those deaths. I just needed them out of the way so I killed them.
The information on the tapestry was mostly consistent with what she'd said in the interview. Dorea and Charlus had only one child, a son. If James was that child, then Dorea would have been 40 when she gave birth, which, at least in muggle terms, is "getting on a little," I think. (You (sunnyskwalker) are correct that childbirth at 40 is not that unusual, but statistics show that this has only become true in about the last 2 decades.) If Dorea was Harry's grandmother, then the tapestry did give Harry some relatives, but fairly distant ones; his closest relatives would be his Great-Uncles Pollux and Marius and his Great-Aunt Cassiopeia. And, if Dorea was Harry's grandmother, she died before Harry was born.

The only information on the tapestry that seemed to contradict what was said in the interview was that, at 57, Dorea wasn't particularly "old in wizarding terms" when she died. However, JKR gave all of the Blacks normal human lifespans on the tapestry. Also, Walburga Black is described as looking "old" in her portrait in OotP, but, according to the tapestry, she died at 60. Moreover, we know that JKR isn't great with numbers. Given this context, I personally was never too bothered that Dorea was only 57 when she died. Plus, Charlus could have been significantly older; the tapestry tells us nothing about his age.

So, I felt that the information about Dorea and Charlus on the tapestry basically worked with what JKR had said previously about James's parents, and I didn't think it made much sense for there to be other Potters floating around. And, for 9+ years, she never told us that they weren't his parents.

Now that JKR has given us the names Fleamont and Euphemia, I have no idea who Charlus and Dorea are. Did JKR always mean for them to be separate people? Did she originally mean for them to be James's parents, but later changed her mind? Did she simply give them new names? Or did she forget about the tapestry altogether?
Edited Date: 2015-09-26 07:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-26 07:16 pm (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
57 isn't even old in Muggle terms, so "JKR is terrible at numbers" is really the only way to salvage that. (Walburga may have looked older due to stress, or alcoholism, or who knows what. Heck, maybe it was just a bad likeness!) I know 57-year-olds who go on 200-mile backpacking trips, and trying to wrap my mind around the idea of them being "old" is tough. My grandpa is nearly 100; that's old. Until a few years ago, he wasn't even especially frail. And that kind of lifespan has been common in his family for generations, for the ones who didn't get killed off early by work accidents or something, so it can't be entirely chalked up to modern medicine either.

But oh dear maths, I guess. Or maybe JKR just knows a lot of people who didn't age as well, and so her mental impression of what constitutes "old" is different.

I hope someone asks her now who Charlus and Dorea were, just to see what she says. Maybe they have regular dragon pox epidemics that take out half of everyone's grandparents every 20 years or so, idk, and Charlus was Fleamont's brother or cousin or something but they all died. Or Charlus really was Fleamont's middle name, which he started going by the minute he came of age and his dad couldn't insist anymore, and... er, Euphemia also hated her name?

Date: 2015-09-26 08:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
er, Euphemia also hated her name?

I realized that her name could be Dorea Euphemia Black, and she went by Euphemia. Maybe there was already a cousin Dorea on her mother's side of the family.

--57 isn't even old in Muggle terms, so "JKR is terrible at numbers" is really the only way to salvage that.

See, I don't think she gave much thought to any numbers when she made the tapestry. She originally had two 13-year-old fathers: Pollux and his son, Cygnus II. Cygnus's II dates were later changed from 1938-1992 to 1929-1979. Pollux remained a 13-year-old father, however.

And here are the ages of the Blacks when they died:

1st Gen
Sirius I - 8
Phineas Nigellus - 78
Elladora - 81

2nd Gen
Sirius II - 75
Cygnus I - 54
Belvina - 76
Arcturus I - 75

3rd Gen
Arcturus II - 90
Lycoris - 61
Regulus I - 53
Pollux - 78
Casseopeia - 77
Dorea - 57
Callidora - b. 1915, no death date
Charis - 54

4th Gen
Lucretia - 67
Orion - 50
Walburga - 60
Alphard - abt. 52
Cygnus II - 50

Excluding 8-year-old Sirius, the still-living Callidora, and the youngest generation (Sirius, Regulus, Bellatrix etc.), the average lifespan on the tapestry is 66 years. That's lower than the UK life expectancy in 1960.

--------

And there are lots of other problems with the dates on the tapestry. Jodel has a whole long essay about it on her redhen-publications site.

Edited Date: 2015-09-26 11:32 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-27 04:48 pm (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Yeah. One or two dying relatively young would be one thing, but when almost everyone dies before 80... Hm. Maybe wizards have a natural longer lifespan if nothing goes wrong, but they also face far more fatal accidents and diseases than muggles, so it isn't obvious that this is the case? I'm really trying to work with JKR here, but she makes it so hard!

Date: 2015-09-26 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
Plus, say that Euphemia was 50 when James was born. She died in 1980, at the very latest. So, at most, she would have been 70 when she died, which still isn't considered especially old in either the wizarding world or the muggle one.

Maybe she had James closer to 60, but I don't think we have any evidence of witches having children significantly later in life than women do in the real world.

-----------

BTW, I'm frustrated with Rowling, not you. You're absolutely right that 57 isn't old. But, given the mess of the entire tapestry, I have no idea whether that proves that Dorea was never meant to be James's mother. People have been tweeting her about Dorea and Charlus, but no response so far, and I'm not sure if I'd believe her even if she did respond.
Edited Date: 2015-09-26 09:13 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-28 12:46 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Dying at 70 isn't super-old, but at least it isn't utterly laughable to call it old. I'd take that compromise.

Or maybe Charlus was Fleamont's third cousin, so aren't particularly close relations, and... er, Charlus and his son died in a tragic broom accident or something, just to be thorough. And maybe Euphemia was that "1 daughter" of Belvina Black and Herbert Burke (to keep a Black connection), which would allow her to be closer to 70 when she died and to have James at 50 without changing any dates. Or we could assume a more distant Black-descended cousin for Euphemia, since we don't have the whole tapestry, and so she could be any ages we want until JKR says otherwise.

Date: 2015-09-28 06:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
Those are good ideas, as are the suggestions you made further up the thread. But I'm really attached to Dorea and Charlus being Harry's grandparents; so, for now, I'm going to stick with that as my personal headcanon and make them Dorea Euphemia Black and Fleamont Charlus Potter.

I feel like JKR didn't put a huge amount of thought into either the tapestry or this new backstory*, so I think we're free to adapt them as we see fit.

*Seriously, Fleamont is such an awful choice for a name. JKR usually gives her characters' names a lot of thought, but I suspect that's not the case here. I think she just came up with something that sounded suitably ridiculous. Fleamont is not a real surname. And "flea" is descended from Old English, while "mont" is French, so it's not even an especially plausible surname.

Date: 2015-09-23 01:13 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Come to think of it, Cousin Potter should have come up in "Will and Won't" if he were still alive. Dumbledore was trying to make sure Sirius's will let Harry inherit ahead of anyone else who might have a stronger claim, like Bellatrix. Cousin Potter would probably be closer than Harry as well.

Though, um, maybe Dumbledore felt it would be... awkward to suddenly inform Harry that he had Potter relatives no one had ever mentioned. And, um, they really were unpleasant people, and... well, we should just trust that he had a really good reason for not bringing it up. Honest!

Date: 2015-09-23 01:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
Fleamont clearly inherited the Potter estate, so the line of inheritance would be Fleamont > James > Harry, regardless of whether or not there was a cousin Potter out there. But I really don't think there were any Potter relatives. I mean, in this whole story about the Potters, there's nothing about extended family, and this would be the place to mention it if there was any.

Date: 2015-09-23 04:38 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
The Black estate is the one I was thinking of. Dorea Black's son ought to be in line for that ahead of her brother-in-law's grandson, I would think. And it's the Black estate that's in question in that chapter. Harry's already got the Potter one, or at least the vault (if there's anything else, I would hope someone will tell him now that he's of age).

According to JKR's tapestry sketch, there ought to be a Cousin Potter of some degree. We just don't know how Charlus and Fleamont are related. Or whether Cousin Potter has children, or died without issue, etc.

Date: 2015-09-23 05:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
Ah, I see what you mean now. If the Blacks followed traditional inheritance customs, the line of descent would be descendants of Arcturus Black (b. 1884) -> Draco -> Cousin Potter. So I don't think Cousin Potter would matter much in terms of whether or not Harry inherited the estate.

Date: 2015-09-24 12:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
--It should all be on the Pottermore wikia.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure they're violating copyright.

Date: 2015-09-22 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Wait a minute. James only inherited the cloak when hisparents died of dragon pox, but we know from Sirius and Remus that James often used the cloak at school, and we know from Sirius that he moved in with the Potters the summer he was 16 (ie between 5th and 6th year). Oh dear, maths!

Date: 2015-09-23 12:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
I figure that James used the cloak at Hogwarts; he just didn't officially own it until Fleamont died, kind of like how you can inherit a house you're already living in.

ETA: Apparently a different entry about the Marauder's Map says that the boys used the cloak. Haven't read that yet, just saw comments about it on tumblr.
Edited Date: 2015-09-23 12:51 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-23 12:38 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
If the Potters married Muggles only for "several generations" after their 12th-century family founder, then the last magical Potter/Muggle marriage could have happened in 1400 or so. Plenty of time for their halfblood status (less important in this era anyway) to "fade" over the centuries. They might have only been marrying other magicals for quite some time even before official Seclusion. Making them "pure enough" to be Pureblood. Just not quite as "pure" as the Sacred 28 claimed to be. So that, actually, works for me.

The "save the surname" bit applies to Henry's mother's maiden name, not to her married name of Potter. Her name was Something Fleamont, and he named his son Fleamont Potter. So that works too.

But the potions thing is so awkward! Why wouldn't Slughorn mention that? Harry, of course you're a dab hand at potions; your mother was brilliant at them, and of course I don't need to tell you about the Potters... oh, I do? There's not one person in this pestilential school who will tell a poor orphan about his own family? How shocking! Not to mention, you'd think Hermione would have researched it. Look at everything I found out about your family, Harry! Aren't you impressed with how helpful I am?

Snape stubbornly brewing his own shampoo because he doesn't want to give a single knut to Potter Potions Inc. could be funny, though. In the hands of the right writer.

The thought of absent-minded potioneer Linfred does make one shudder, doesn't it? Of course JKR didn't let him blow himself up like Luna's mother did.

Linfred and Hardwin are Germanic names, so they're probably meant to show that the family was Anglo-Saxon and hadn't intermarried with any Normans yet. They might have been perfectly normal names as far as the Muggles were concerned. Ralston is a place in Scotland, apparently? So maybe Ralston's father just married a Scottish woman from that area with that surname, and they gave it to their son as a first name, the same way poor Fleamont got his name? It doesn't seem necessarily wizarding, anyway.

Oh dear maths indeed on the cloak inheritance. James had it at school, so was it borrowed and he only truly "inherited" it when his father died?

Also, we don't know what Harry the First meant by "helping" the Muggles in WWI. The war's roots were in how the European powers kept getting into fights over who got to conquer other bits of the world, so lots of "help" might have been the sort of help the rest of the world would rather they not provide. What if he meant charming British guns to have better aim, or something like that? With the reasoning that it would save lives by winning the war faster. And then leave Britain with lots more resources to go conquer other bits of the world. You know, for the conquered peoples' own good. Harry I would hardly have been unique in that view in that era, after all.

Date: 2015-09-23 02:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
--Linfred and Hardwin are Germanic names, so they're probably meant to show that the family was Anglo-Saxon and hadn't intermarried with any Normans yet.

To add to that...

Potter could be either Anglo-Saxon or Norman.

potter - "maker of pots" (they also sometimes doubled as bell-founders), late Old English pottere "potter," reinforced by Old French potier "potter," both from the root of pot (n.1). As a surname from late 12c. (etymonline)

So dating the family back to the 12th century works.

The explanation of the origin of the name is kind of silly, though, and etymologically anachronistic. "To potter," in the modern sense, is from the 18th century.

But I found something better. According to the houseofnames website "one reference states: 'the term meant an apothecary or druggist.'"
Edited Date: 2015-09-23 02:29 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-23 04:22 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Apothecary > Potter, that works for me!

Date: 2015-09-24 02:10 am (UTC)
sunnyskywalker: Young Beru Lars from Attack of the Clones; text "Sunnyskywalker" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunnyskywalker
Not entirely a fluke--Ralston argued for the Statute of Secrecy, which would have the foreseeable effect of effectively removing Muggles from his family's future marriage prospects. And with the lower general population, there were probably few Muggleborns. So he could reasonably expect that his family from his grandchildren onward would be choosing their spouses from among other magical families. It's framed as a choice between Secrecy or war, but surely he could have argued for diplomacy, or hiding out until the witch craze died down (which it just about had by that time, actually), or some other possible solution. So either he thought Secrecy was the least bad option which actually had a chance of gaining public support... or he actually thought getting away from Muggles was a good idea anyway. There were enough generations between him and Linfred that the Potters could have married Muggles "for several generations" and yet stopped doing so several generations before Ralston. They might have been avoiding Muggles as far as possible since 1500.

Rowling says that Fleamont was Henry Potter's son, and Rowling said nothing about Henry changing his name. We have to assume that Henry Potter was a Potter because his father was a Potter, as it works in the rest of the wizarding world. Meaning that if Henry's mother was also a Potter, she would have no reason to worry about her surname dying out--Henry already had it. Plus, Rowling says that "Fleamont was so called because..." and "He bore the burden remarkably well," ie, "Fleamont" is the part that needs explaining, and which was a burden inflicted by his grandmother's request, not Potter.

So I think it was meant as a token gesture, to show his mom that he cared. It it isn't a guaranteed permanent solution, but it would at least let the name outlive her by a bit. And might make it into a "family name," because then at least she could hope that subsequent Potter generations would name the occasional kid Fleamont after the first one.

Pretty much the only thing Arthur did that may have helped Muggles was confiscating charmed tea sets and such sold to Muggle shops. Hard to think of anything that would help during a shooting war fought abroad. And then he turned around and cooperated (or at least didn't protest against) things like Obliviating innocent Muggle campground owners ten times a day just so wizards could have a big sports game, which is far from what I'd call helpful... Ugh, here's a thought: what if the "help" Henry had in mind was Obliviating returning soldiers to "cure" their shell shock?

Date: 2015-09-23 02:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I say forget all this Pottermore rot, in both versions. Every blinking bit of it. None of it is worth wasting the time to read, much less analyze or write fanfic about.

P.S. Any Snape-like sneering in this comment is to be understood as being directed at JKR, not at at radicalhighway, with whose sneers at Pottermore and other post-canon tinkering I entirely agree. Spork away, RH! But let’s not try to make sense out of it. Can’t be done.
Edited Date: 2015-09-23 04:18 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-23 06:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapes-witch.livejournal.com
I like your attitude.

Date: 2015-09-24 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
Fleamont Potter was assaulted and bullied all the way through school by kids who made fun of his name, and quite sensibly named his own son James. Did he also make any attempt to teach his son not to bully kids with unusual names? Either he didn’t bother, or (more likely) James had as much respect for his father’s teachings as Sirius had for his own parents’ pureblood ideology. I would like to give JKR credit for conscious irony in having James’s father bullied over his unusual name, but she seems so determined elsewhere to feel no sympathy for Severus that I have to doubt it.

Nah, it’s better to ignore Fleamont altogether. James’s parents are Charlus Potter and Dorea Black. Regarding their supposed old age: if it weren’t for the extended wizarding lifespan, we could invoke the wizarding world’s nineteenth century culture. Ruth, the contralto in Gilbert and Sullivan’s Pirates of Penzance, is described as decidedly elderly. “Your face is lined, your hair is grey!” sings Frederic to her. She’s forty-seven.

I am, however, adding Iolanthe Peverell Potter into my headcanon, for no better reason than because she’s named after my favorite G&S opera—though if she were like her operatic namesake she would have married a muggle lawyer.

Date: 2015-09-25 12:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
The irony really is beautiful, even if unintended.

Date: 2015-09-24 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penguinsuzie.livejournal.com
Reading the one about the Hogwarts Acceptance was actually making me annoyed.

The book refusing baby Neville. How great it is that Squibs are successfully kept out of Hogwarts. The fact that they are still using the same system a thousand years later because the wizarding world's lack of innovation is staggering. Though if she'd tried to tell us otherwise it wouldn't be believable because the magical community is so backwards already.

I think she still hasn't accepted that HP is a dystopia filled with mean self righteous characters. Hearing the fans un-ironically saying that the new version of the site is so horrible it must have been taken over by muggles is making my eye twitch.

[I deleted my comments because it was a repeat, as it told me it had marked my comment as spam so I rewrote it and tried to edit the previous one when I realized it had gone through but couldn't]

Date: 2015-09-25 12:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danajsparks.livejournal.com
I hadn't read that entry yet. It really is disturbing. Yes, let's all pat ourselves on the back for how good a job we do at excluding non-magical children from the society they're born into. Ugh.

Date: 2015-09-25 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I prefer Terri’s version: children are registered with the Ministry by their parents when they show definite signs of magic. Children who aren’t registered—because their parents are muggles, or are procrastinators, or don’t like dealing with the Ministry, or think their child’s magic isn’t strong enough—have to wait until their names show up automatically in the Hogwarts Enrollment Book at age eleven. Only at that point does the Ministry have a complete census of fully-magical Britons. If we allow for Albus lying to Mrs Cole and Hagrid exaggerating to Harry (about Tom and Harry respectively having been registered since birth), that covers everything. Except for squibs, who slip through the cracks if their families don’t make a record of them, and therefore make excellent spies.

Lol!

Date: 2015-09-29 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] librasmile.livejournal.com
Loved this! For every reason you cited :^D *shakes head at Rowling's...freewheeling sense of continuity/condistency*

thanks for de-lurking

Date: 2015-10-01 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terri-testing.livejournal.com
Thanks for joining (and adding to) the fun, BTW!

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